2017 Cowboys: NoMo' Romo (or playoffs)

TFisNEXT

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Gonna cost Zeke some serious dough. Six games salary, incentive bonuses and he has to pay back some the signing bonus money.

Looks like the NFL did their homework and fuck this guy if this is true. He's a jerk and so is anyone defending him so he can play....football for their favorite team.
Sorry. I don't trust the "NFL did their homework" anymore than when they "did their homework" in DFG. If Zeke really did it, then yeah, fuck him. But assuming he did it because we trust the NFL over other investigators/law enforcement is a different ball of wax. The NFL has some incentive to protect against perception they suck at domestic abuse issues and it's not a reach to think they would fuck someone over to protect their own image.
 

ragnarok725

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Yup. If he did all that, and I have no reason to doubt it, then 6 games may be light. The bruises around the throat were especially troubling to see.
I think the reason to doubt it is that the NFL has zero credibility in running an investigation.

On one hand, there's the fact that she says it happened, there are some pictures, and the NFL investigation says something happened. On the other hand, no charges are being filed because of "conflicting and inconsistent information".

I'm still inclined to believe something probably happened. But the NFL's investigation counts for very little in that calculus. They've proven they'll put forth any set of "facts" that suit their agenda, present it as the truth, and push it hard. They're representing the interest of the NFL. There's next to zero investigative authority. If they publish the full report and we can pore over it and address the evidence's credibility ourselves (like in Deflategate) then there might be some value there. But their word on the matter means almost nothing.
 

Ed Hillel

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TMZ claims these are photos from Elliot's accuser. If the NFL has strong proof that these were inflicted by Elliot, then it's definitely not surprising to see a 6 game suspension.
This should be easy enough to prove or disprove. For one, that seems like a lot of bruising from a "bar fight," and if that's how it did actually happen, it would have caused a massive scene with witnesses and probably security footage. I'm guessing the NFL went that route and found nothing.
 
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BigSoxFan

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I think the reason to doubt it is that the NFL has zero credibility in running an investigation.

On one hand, there's the fact that she says it happened, there are some pictures, and the NFL investigation says something happened. On the other hand, no charges are being filed because of "conflicting and inconsistent information".

I'm still inclined to believe something probably happened. But the NFL's investigation counts for very little in that calculus. They've proven they'll put forth any set of "facts" that suit their agenda, present it as the truth, and push it hard. They're representing the interest of the NFL. There's next to zero investigative authority. If they publish the full report and we can pore over it and address the evidence's credibility ourselves (like in Deflategate) then there might be some value there. But their word on the matter means almost nothing.
Those pictures look very consistent with other domestic violence photos we've seen. I clearly have little trust in the NFL but these photos combined with the text messages present a pretty compelling case. And the bar fight defense is pretty weak.
 

dcmissle

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And it is one side of the story. Destruction of a cell phone is consistent with guilty knowledge.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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As expected, NFLPA is appealing on behalf of Elliott:


"Our union has appealed the NFL's six game suspension of Ezekiel Elliott. We will represent Ezekiel, as we do all players, to ensure that the NFL is held to its obligations of adhering to the principles of industrial due process under the Collective Bargaining Agreement."

Very process-focused statement there from the NFLPA.
 

wnyghost

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Still nothing from Jerrah? Disappointing.
Jerrah being Mr. Big and telling the world his investigation turned up nothing really must have pissed off Roger. I believe he knew the hammer was about to fall and thought he could protect his investment by delivering a no proof of anything message.

Anybody who thinks Elliott did not touch this woman is delusional. This doesn't relate to DFG or the Pats... it 6 games for beating a woman and a gift to Elliott as he should be in jail.

That said... I think the NFL got it right for once and hope they can find consistency going forward.

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Bosoxen

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Jerrah being Mr. Big and telling the world his investigation turned up nothing really must have pissed off Roger. I believe he knew the hammer was about to fall and thought he could protect his investment by delivering a no proof of anything message.

Anybody who thinks Elliott did not touch this woman is delusional. This doesn't relate to DFG or the Pats... it 6 games for beating a woman and a gift to Elliott as he should be in jail.

That said... I think the NFL got it right for once and hope they can find consistency going forward.
Lots to unpack here.

Jerry wasn't trying to do anything except run his mouth. There appears to be a fallacy that Jerry always has a strategy in mind when he speaks but the truth of the matter is he often runs his mouth without any semblance of logic behind not only his words, but the message he's trying to convey. Maybe his "nothing to see here" declarations spurred Gooddell on but I seriously doubt it. He's far more motivated by showing how tough he is than any kind of petty one-upmanship.

You may very well be right - and heaven knows those pictures of that woman don't show injuries of the "fell down the stairs" variety - but that NFLPA statement seems to suggest there may be gaps in the case built against Elliott. Personally, I've been hesitant to point to the lack of police investigation as the be-all-end-all proof that nothing happened because we know how sketchy that sort of thing can be when college town police departments are involved (hello, Waco) but even the most guilty of people are entitled to due process.

Again, it's possible or even likely he did the deed (we may actually never know with 100% certainty because of the difficulty in prosecuting DV cases) but it appears he's being punished not only for what he may have done, but also for being unfortunate enough to get caught in the NFL's overreaction cycle. Without the Josh Brown case and its corresponding fallout, he's likely looking at 2-4 games, tops. But because of Josh Brown, they felt the need to throw the book at him. It's a pattern of behavior by the NFL that's unequivocal and I bet the next case we see will be soft-pedaled because of the reaction to this case.

Then there's the Mara/Rooney influence hypothesis, which I confess is starting to look more compelling, even though I'm not usually one to buy into conspiracy theories.
 

Montana Fan

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Looks like the NFL did their homework and fuck this guy if this is true. He's a jerk and so is anyone defending him so he can play....football for their favorite team.
Unless she beat herself up or had someone else do it, it would appear that EE is a serious piece of shit. Am really disappointed that he wasn't prosecuted. He's getting off easy!
 

bakahump

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Somehow I figure this will blow over.

JJ just seems like a bigger blustering dink then RK. I just envision him showing Roger Pictures of Goodell with hookers and coke or reminding him of some text he sent Jerry using the N word. Something with leverage. And that JJ isnt afraid to use it.
Basically Bob Kraft was "too nice" and Jerry Jones knows how to play the power game. In short JJ SEEMS slimy enough to ensure his franchise back will play somehow and no matter what.
Mea culpa. I hope JJ and Zeke are not able to weasel this down during appeal.
 

luckiestman

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/16/nfl-report-shows-tiffany-thompson-suggested-blackmailing-elliott-over-sex-videos/

The NFL won’t be releasing the 160-page investigative report generated in the Ezekiel Elliott case. And maybe we’re starting to see why.

Via Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports, the report contains a text-message exchange in which Thompson discusses with a friend the idea of selling sex tapes of herself and Elliott. At one point, the friend says, “[W]e could blackmail him w[ith] that.”
 

Bosoxen

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This could explain the NFLPA's statement regarding due process:
As PFT previously has explained, Commissioner Roger Goodell met in person with neither Elliott nor Thompson to assess their credibility before deciding that Elliott was guilty as charged.
 

wnyghost

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Wait a minute. Does anybody really believe blackmail over a sex tape is greater leverage than being beaten?

If she wanted him in trouble she would agree to testify that he attacked her.

Reasons for not pursuing -

1. She's lying and the photos of her injuries were not from the superstar athlete.

2. She's scared and/or has limited options... regular sufferers of abuse remain silent due to children, lack of money to leave, fear, etc.

3. A nice juicy payoff.

I don't care if she's a rotten person. Nothing can justify laying your hands on a woman in anger.

Now the media trolls will look at her credibility and prosecute her... it's not a new story, it happens every day.

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InstaFace

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Slow down a second there, nobody's attacking the victim.

Her being flaky is a sufficient reason not to prosecute - the state has limited resources and has to prioritize. Her being flaky is not a reason to conclude that nothing happened, or for his employer to take no action.
 

wnyghost

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/16/nfl-report-shows-tiffany-thompson-suggested-blackmailing-elliott-over-sex-videos/

The NFL won’t be releasing the 160-page investigative report generated in the Ezekiel Elliott case. And maybe we’re starting to see why.

Via Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports, the report contains a text-message exchange in which Thompson discusses with a friend the idea of selling sex tapes of herself and Elliott. At one point, the friend says, “[W]e could blackmail him w[ith] that.”
Really?

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tims4wins

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Naw, fuck the NFL. They only come forward with statements immediately when trying to defend themselves or their cause.
 

BigSoxFan

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Naw, fuck the NFL. They only come forward with statements immediately when trying to defend themselves or their cause.
I mean, the NFL is obviously full of shit on all of this but at least more attention is being paid to a real issue.
 

Marciano490

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This supposes that they are correct that the leaks come from the NFLPA, rather than their own colander of an organization. If so, I agree with you, but they'd better be right.
I think it's a good statement regardless. If there are leaks, they're coming from internal operatives unhappy with the suspension. The source isn't as important as the NFL's reaction, though I agree their strong message would get lost if they were proven to be wrong about the NFLPA.
 

dcmissle

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/16/nflpa-seething-over-accusation-of-victim-shaming/

As this points out, if there were victim shaming in this case by the union, it would be the first time. And the NFL itself gathered the allegedly derogatory information, which it refuses to disclose by keeping the report secret.

And, of course, we have, weeks ago, credible reports of owners muscling Goodell to come down hard on Elliot.

To be clear, in a legit process, the 32 owners would have zero input in this process.

I dare say that if Elliott were a Patriot, the outrage levels would be over the top.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/16/nflpa-seething-over-accusation-of-victim-shaming/

As this points out, if there were victim shaming in this case by the union, it would be the first time. And the NFL itself gathered the allegedly derogatory information, which it refuses to disclose by keeping the report secret.

And, of course, we have, weeks ago, credible reports of owners muscling Goodell to come down hard on Elliot.

To be clear, in a legit process, the 32 owners would have zero input in this process.

I dare say that if Elliott were a Patriot, the outrage levels would be over the top.
Thats kind of the way this goes though, yeah?

The better a player and team, the more outrage. If this was Theo Riddick in Detroit, the owners wouldn't give a shit - neither would a large chunk of fans - and he'd probably get a one or two game suspension.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I don't know enough to know what else he's done, but Stephen's "take the keys away from dad" moments are reaching legendary status.
 

Bosoxen

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I don't know enough to know what else he's done, but Stephen's "take the keys away from dad" moments are reaching legendary status.
This Dallas Morning News article has a good list. But here are the highlights:

1. The deal with Deion

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones likes to tell the story of how Stephen threw him against a wall at the Mansion 20 years ago when the club was about to sign cornerback Deion Sanders. Stephen thought the seven-year, $35 million contract was excessive and would create problems with Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith. When Jerry said he was going into the next room to tell Sanders' agent that they had a deal Stephen grabbed his father by the arm and pushed him. "What are you going to do, hit me?'' Jerry asked. "I'm not going to hit you, but let's talk a little more,'' Stephen said. The Cowboys did sign Sanders, but Jerry went to Aikman, Irvin and Smith first to secure buy-in.
3. Zack Martin over Johnny Manziel in the 2014 draft

The owner's fascination with Manziel in the '14 draft was no secret, but he felt that Manziel would be gone when the Cowboys were on the clock at No. 16. "Let's not assume that Dad," Stephen said. Stephen thought there was a chance linebacker Anthony Barr, defensive tackle Aaron Donald or linebacker Ryan Shazier would be on the board. He then made a case for offensive lineman Zack Martin and detailed his reasons again why he wouldn't take Manziel. Barr went No. 9 to Minnesota. Donald went No. 13 to St. Louis. Shazier went the pick ahead of the Cowboys to Pittsburgh. Martin was the top-rated player on the Cowboys board. Stephen knew everyone in the room loved him. Will McClay, the senior director of college/pro personnel spoke up and said Martin. Head coach Jason Garrett said he believed the team should take Martin. Jerry said, "Let's go over this quarterback thing one more time." "We need to take Martin," Stephen said. "OK, I guess that's what we'll do," Jerry announced to the room.
4. More tough calls

One month before the Cowboys took Martin over Manziel the club released DeMarcus Ware, a Pro Bowl fixture during his career, because of his salary and made no attempt to retain defensive tackle Jason Hatcher in free agency. That was an overt sign of Stephen's growing influence. That was followed by the decision six months ago to allow Murray, the NFL's rushing champion, to leave in free agency. "That was a tough one,'' Stephen said. Larry Lacewell, who spent 13 years as the team's director of college and pro scouting, wasn't in the draft room the night the Cowboys passed on Manziel. He wasn't part of the discussion on Ware or Murray or the other personnel moves that have been made of late. He didn't have to be there to know what's taking place. "When push comes to shove, Jerry listens to Stephen,'' Lacewell said.
7. Here son, you give it a try

Having gone through a difficult, sometimes venomous public battle trying to sign Emmitt Smith in 1993 (Smith held out for two regular-season games before signing and helping the Cowboys win another Super Bowl), Jerry Jones left the negotiations on another deal for Smith up to Stephen. "I told Stephen that no matter what else he does, his legacy will depend on what happens with Emmitt," Jerry said. "Maybe I didn't say it clear enough. If Stephen doesn't get him signed, I'm running him off." But Stephen did get Emmitt signed to a $48 million deal.
 

Bosoxen

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Taken with the obligatory grain of salt:

ESPN's Adam Schefter said Thursday that he believes Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott could have his six-game suspension reduced.

On ESPN's Mike & Mike, Schefter said the following regarding Elliott's appeal: "The more that I have heard, the more I think he has a real chance to have some games knocked off the suspension."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2730646-adam-schefter-thinks-ezekiel-elliott-has-a-chance-for-suspension-to-be-reduced
 

dcmissle

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If they cut the suspension, you live with it and focus on beating the Giants by 3 TDs in week 1. There is no good alternative.

If they don't cut it, you are incentivized to fight, which is why they would but it.

I'm skeptical, but Schefter is pretty reliable.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I just don't know how they cut the suspension. Don't they either need to adhere to it or eliminate it?

I'm just trying to think of a path to, say, three or four games. You can't say, "well, now we have more doubts than we did whether he beat her, so since we can't be sure, it's three games." As I understand his defense, it is "I didn't do it." Not, "I did it, but it's not as bad as you make it sound." Or "I did it, but I was abused myself as a child, and I'm working on it, and I have done X, Y, and Z to make the world a better place and I will work tirelessly to reduce domestic violence."

What mitigation can there be in a he-said/she-said, binary defense? The only way a sensible reduction could make sense is if they NFL concludes there is too much doubt about whether he did it, but imposes discipline based on some incidental conduct, like cooperating with the investigation or something.

I suppose, since public reaction is their only guide, they can really do whatever they want. I guess they could simply say, "well, we heard the evidence and have decided four games is more appropriate" and leave it at that, in which case, I'd love to write Florio's "beating women is the same as deflating footballs" column for him.
 

Bosoxen

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The union's argument from the start was one of procedural issues. I mean, that's a technicality but one that could potentially create that grey area you seem to be denying exists.
 

BigSoxFan

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Seems like there might be enough here to challenge in court. Can the NFL stomach another case? Probably.
 

dcmissle

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http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article170603722.html

Well I guess that's something...it would be like the lead detective telling the prosecutor not to move forward with the case I guess? Obviously different in this arena but seems odd - probably more relevant from an optics standpoint than an actual proof standpoint
The lead detective is not tasked with playing the Cowboys twice a year; the NY Maras are.

Never forget this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-reportedly-pressuring-roger-goodell-to-suspend-cowboys-zeke-elliott/amp/
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The union's argument from the start was one of procedural issues. I mean, that's a technicality but one that could potentially create that grey area you seem to be denying exists.
Procedural violation seems even more black and white. If there was a violation of the rules in imposing the suspension, it's not valid, right? Unless they do it over, correctly. Again, my argument assumes a principaled decisionmaker, which may be a stretch.
 

BigSoxFan

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NFLPA already filed lawsuit in Texas to vacate whatever ruling comes down. Game on!
 

dcmissle

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NFLPA already filed lawsuit in Texas to vacate whatever ruling comes down. Game on!
Elliot's only chance assuming he is fighting. NFL would have immediately moved to confirm Henderson's award in the SDNY, as it did in Brady case. SDNY judges bound by Second Circuit decision in the Brady case, which is very league friendly.

Union filed in the Eastern District of Texas, which means Sherman.
 
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pappymojo

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Elliot's only chance assuming he is fighting. NFL would have immediately moved to confirm Henderson's award in the SDNY, as it did in Brady case. SDNY judges bound by Second Circuit decision in the Brady case, which is very league friendly.

Union filed in the Eastern District of Texas, which means Dallas.
Perhaps a moot point but is this true? In the Brday case, they NFLPA fought the appeal process. In this case they seem to be fighting the original decision itself (suppressed evidence). Even if played out in NY isn't that sufficiently different enough that they would need to hear it out?
 

dcmissle

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Perhaps a moot point but is this true? In the Brday case, they NFLPA fought the appeal process. In this case they seem to be fighting the original decision itself (suppressed evidence). Even if played out in NY isn't that sufficiently different enough that they would need to hear it out?
In the Brady case, the union fought the original decision, before Judge Berman. That's the only way the case got to the Court of Appeals.

Berman did punt on most of Brady's procedural points, but the bottom line in the Brady decision is, "you signed it (the CBA) -- live with it."

Even though the two cases are not identical, one would expect SDNY judges to take the bottom line to heart.
 

Bosoxen

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Procedural violation seems even more black and white. If there was a violation of the rules in imposing the suspension, it's not valid, right? Unless they do it over, correctly. Again, my argument assumes a principaled decisionmaker, which may be a stretch.
Fair enough. But we already know principles need not apply for the NFL's disciplinary committee. Knowing that the NFLPA has already filed suit, I'm fully prepared for the NFL to put its thumb on the scale and the arbitrator to announce the suspension will not be reduced - in spite of what was reported by Schefter.
 

PedroKsBambino

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dcmissile, I have not been able to stomach getting deep into the facts on another NFL suspension jihad. Are there facts here that suggest there's any likely outcome other than the Brady outcome? I of course understand changing jurisdictions might yield a different result---but is that all that's really in play here?