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2017 Celtics Offseason: News and General Discussion

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by cardiacs, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Jeff Van Gundy was just on Zach Lowe’s podcast, and he just raved about - of all people - Abdel Nader.
     
  2. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    That contract could be such a steal. Nader looks like a legit second unit guy in the making to me, and for 1.5 million the next four seasons. Yes, please.
     
  3. redsoxstiff

    redsoxstiff hip-tossed Yogi in a bar fight Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Well,hanyways Dave Cowens was 6'9" but was a god almighty leaping athlete.find the best at 6'9" or better but possibly a player that has a upside of more value than a bigger big.

    I do love what I see now...
     
  4. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    Anyone else see this? Hey, Danny, get on the horn! This guy deserves some love.
     
  5. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  6. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Inexperience aside, this looks like the best deep bench depth the Celtics have had since Stevens got here. Guys like Mickey, James Young, Tyler Zeller, RJ Hunter wouldn't make this team.

    They lack veteran depth. After their top 5 guys (Horford/Hayward/Irving/Smart/Morris), Baynes is probably the only guy who fits that category.

    Baynes: 5 years, 4.150 minutes
    Larkin: 3 years, 4,105 minutes
    Rozier: 2 years, 1,541 minutes
    Jaylen: 1 year, 1,341 minutes
    Nader: rookie
    Ojeleye: rookie
    Tatum: rookie
    Theiss: rookie*
    Yabusele: rookie

    Rozier looks primed for a major role this season. Assuming Stevens follows through with Smart coming off the bench, that suggests a bench unit of Smart, Rozier, Baynes or Morris (whichever one doesn't start), Tatum, and... either Theiss, Yabusele, or Ojeleye, each of whom have their strong points. I'd guess Theiss, but Yabu had a nice game tonight. I'd also expect Stevens to try to stagger his stars and keep one of them out with the bench unit most of the time, the most likely guy probably being Hayward (since Smart/Rozier/Baynes looks like the makings of a pretty solid bench unit).
     
  7. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    EDIT: Never mind. Brain cramp on my end. Thanks Manzivino.
     
    #957 lexrageorge, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  8. Manzivino

    Manzivino Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    If Smart isn't starting, Brown is.
     
  9. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Smart looks like he added a legit foot to his vertical this offseason, which seems to have improved his finishing ability. If the improved shooting is as real is it seems at the moment, he will be a rich man soon.
     
  10. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Do we know if Smart was asked to “bulk up” last year, or is it worrisome it took him until his contract year to show up on peak shape? I’d be a little concerned to shell out 20 million a year or whatever over a handful of seasons if it’s the latter.

    I still think he’s a goner, as I mentioned a while back. He’s going to outprice his value to the team.
     
  11. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Scal said on the broadcast last night that even though there's been no offer yet to Smart the sides have most definitely talked.
     
  12. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Looks like Smart and Rozier will be paired together on the second unit, which should be a terror defensively (some video in this link): http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/10/marcus_smart_terry_rozier_bost.html.

    Smart's per-36 preseason averages: 22.9 points, 10.0 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 3.6 steals, 54.5% FG, 58.3% (!?!) 3PT.

    Rozier's per-36 preseason averages: 20.7 points, 8.3 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 3.0 steals, 50% FG, 50% 3PT.

    Wowzers!
     
  13. sox311

    sox311 Member SoSH Member

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    In video after the game Marcus said "my agent and them haven't talked..."

    I heard Scal say what you said above, but I don't think he had any knowledge and was just speculating saying that about the very last thing he said in that hit.
     
  14. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    IT: "I might never talk to Danny Ainge again"

    https://sports.yahoo.com/isaiah-thomas-might-never-talk-140045003.html

    I love IT, but if he's that hurt as bad as it looks then this won't be a mistake. Also, it seems that he thought that playing through injury (he sais he should have sat out postseason) would mean Boston paid him. It wasn't going to happen.

    The writer says, HOT TAKE ALERT:
    So, apparently the Celtics knew that making him play in the postseason would lead to this injury and that they would be able to deal him for a player no one knew would become available.
     
  15. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    The valid gripe he has is that (from his perspective) the team ran him into the ground and hurt his future earnings to then replace his scoring, partially, with a free agent he helped recruit, and to whom his playoff performance probably made the team more attractive.
     
  16. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    LBJ might be out for opening night.
     
  17. Erik Hanson's Hook

    Erik Hanson's Hook Member SoSH Member

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    Is anyone slightly worried about Baynes's injury? He had shown great promise as kind of an "enforcer", rebounder, and elbow jump shooter. Knee injuries in preseason scare me, and obviously they have a lack of bigs.
     
  18. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    None of this should shock anyone but:

    Chris ForsbergESPN Staff Writer
    The Celtics waived camp invites Daniel Dixon, Jonathan Holmes, L.J. Peak, and Andrew White. Their roster stands at 16 players, including two G-League two-way players. Boston has one open roster spot.
     
  19. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    +1 Agreed.
    I usually side on the cold-hearted, "it's a business" approach. BUT feel bad for Isiah. The Celtics wrung every ounce of talent out of IT, on the cheap, and he's pissed.

    IT4 delivered on everything and more for the Celtics. In tight games, in the community, in the playoffs, in recruiting Al and Gordon, in setting an example for young players, in working on his shooting with Asst Coaches. And he wanted that Brinks Truck to be backed up and deliver a max deal. And that's not going to happen with the Cavs under Ty Lue.

    Danny Ainge was never waving that truck in for a 29yr old defensive liability like he will for Kyrie Irving. Kyrie is going to blossom in the Celtics system. My thinking is Brad maximizes his players' abilities and puts them in a position to succeed better than any other coach outside of San Antonio. I'm very curious to see how Jae, IT, Kelly, Avery, Amir do on their new teams.

    In hindsight that 4yr Phoenix deal is what screwed up IT4's massive payday, probably why he fired his agent. Wrong coach, team and length of contract.

    If my theory is correct, guys looking to improve their value will sign discounted 1yr deals to play for the Celtics and chase rings (massive wishful thinking alert).
     
    #969 benhogan, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  20. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    You don't pay players for past performance and IT is the one who signed his original contract. I can see him being upset or whatever, but he doesn't really have a gripe. Plus, if the Celtics didn't "ring" out every ounce of talent from IT, he'd never be in line for a monster pay day anyway. I
     
  21. MainerInExile

    MainerInExile Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Danny Ainge did more positively for IT's earnings than he did negatively. What kind of contract would he have been looking at if the Celtics trade never happened? It's not Ainge's fault IT got hurt.
     
  22. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Totally agree, except for the fact that everyone knew IT was good offensively after the regular season last year, so he didn't have tons left to prove in that regard. However, I think he (perhaps misguidedly) put his body out there in the playoffs with the expectation he'd be rewarded for it, when it fact it was probably a terrible move for him long-term.

    I'm saying all this as someone who loved the Kyrie trade from day one.
     
  23. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    BTW, I just can't stop watching the ball movement on this play. Can anyone else?

     
  24. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    I was addicted to the Kyrie/GH 1-3 pick and roll variations, personally.
     
  25. jimv

    jimv Member SoSH Member

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  26. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    I shared your concern, but looks like this won't be a huge deal.

    http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/10/boston_celtics_notes_gordon_ha.html

    "Aron Baynes (knee) expressed confidence he will be able to suit up opening night."
     
  27. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    2,261
    Great piece, thanks. Basically what I was trying to articulate in the other thread with this:

    As far as Kyrie developing into something resembling 2014-17 Curry — it's not just a question of greater usage but of a transformed role. Kerr's first job as Ws coach was to totally overhaul the offense (fun piece on that on ESPN yesterday) and the heart of that was taking Steph more off ball, allowing him to roam more freely through complex screens, split actions, etc., to exploit to his most elite skill (shooting, duh), while empowering the whole roster (Draymond in particular, but also Bogut, Andre, Shaun, West, et al.) to make plays. Running him off ball more also helped turn him into a much more complete player: he became a much better screener, rebounder, and defender under Kerr. Not saying Kyrie will reach Steph's level, but in the bits of preseason I've watched, I've already seen signs of that freer, easier, less ball-poundy, more complete Kyrie under Stevens (whose coaching principles I think share a ton with Kerr's). To wit: 10 assists, 0 turnovers, and 5 rebounds in 27 minutes last night, to go with the 16 pts on 7-11 fg. All while barely breaking a sweat. Dare I say "Stephortless"?

    To tack onto that a bit: Nash and Curry have amply demonstrated that elite shooting is the single most important skill for a PG in a modern NBA offense, and I think people tend to underrate how elite a shooter Kyrie is. Point guards in NBA history aged 25 and under who have averaged > .900 FT and > .400 3FG (min 4 attempts) while scoring > 20 PPG:

    Stephen Curry
    Kyrie Irving

    That's the complete list.

    Remove the position requirement and it's those two plus Kevin Durant and CJ McCollum

    Remove the age requirement and it's those two plus Durant, McCollum, Peja Stojakovic and Ray Allen.
     
    #977 Sam Ray Not, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  28. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    I liked the Kyrie trade, as I truly believe we've seen IT's best days already (and I think the 2017-18 Nets will be better than projected). I certainly don't blame Ainge; he wasn't going to make IT4 a max player barring some miracle, and the GM needs to be focused first and foremost on the "best interests of the ballclub".

    I also don't blame Isaiah for his remarks, however. IT certainly did not have to play on an injured hip immediately after his sister was killed in a car crash or immediately after her funeral; noone would have blamed him for missing time even in the playoffs given the circumstances. But play he did. He did everything that the team asked him to do, and more, and seemed to really, really enjoy being part of the Boston sports scene all around. He was my kids favorite player on the team by far (irrelevant factoid alert). So, I completely understand why he's not exactly keeping Ainge on his Christmas card list, and I have no problem with that. Personally, if the Celtics don't advance to the Finals, I hope it is the Cavs that win the title, as I would gladly see Isaiah hug the trophy, even it means LeBron is hugging the same trophy as well.
     
  29. tbb345

    tbb345 Member SoSH Member

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    I agree. This is all much ado about nothing to me. If I was IT, after last year and all he fought through and gave on the floor, I would fucking despise Danny Ainge.
    But logically, Ainge and Brad Stevens did resurrect his career. Also, Ainge made the move that he should have made. It's a tough pill to swallow for IT but players are paid for their potential future performance and Ainge wasn't going to give him that contract.

    Basically, I think every party involved is right.
     
  30. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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  31. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Agree with this post 100% except liking the trade at the time. I begrudge Thomas nothing when it comes to his feelings about Ainge - even allowing for the excellent points others have made here about what Ainge essentially did for IT4s career.
     
  32. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think it's totally fair for Thomas to be angry at Ainge.

    I also think it's totally appropriate for Ainge to pull a Belichick and get rid of a guy too early not too late, and with no concern for what he's done in the past.

    Those things don't have to conflict with each other---each feels ok to me.
     
  33. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Absolutely.

    I definitely don't think they will say it's a mistake in a few years though like IT said, but his overall point makes sense.
     
  34. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    Some good news on the Smart front. This would be a great move, if they can get a good deal. What's the least Smart would take on four years? 60, 65 million? Or too low?

     
  35. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Brian Robb had a really compelling article on BSJ about why it would be unlikely for the Celts to extend Smart now.
     
  36. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I read that, thanks. But I think there are compelling reasons for Ainge to talk about the extension:

    (1) It never hurts to get a sense of how much money Smart is looking for, and what kind of "discount" he might be willing to give a team that he clearly likes playing for.

    (2) If Smart were willing to do say $70, $75 million for five years, you might want to sign him just because that's an attractive contract, and he then becomes a more attractive asset because of it (just as Crowder was). But of course that assumes the contract isn't gunked up with "no trade" clauses.

    I just can't imagine that, two years from now, Smart at say $70-$75 million for five years won't look like a really good deal, barring some catastrophe.
     
  37. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I guess the question is whether Smart’s agent sees a monster RFA offer coming his way if he doesn’t sign. There aren’t that many teams capable of making such an offer and Smart doesn’t make sense for many of those who do.

    His only reason to sign would be pessimism about his RFA market.
     
  38. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    I agree. We've seen his floor, and it's fairly valuable, but if he's plays like he's been playing in the pre-season, he's gonna be really useful. I think Danny and Brad would love to have Marcus's age 24-28 years at 15 mil per in the current market. He's got warts, but the dude makes winning plays.
     
  39. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Most people seem to be VERY pessimistic about the RFA market, but if Smart looks as good this year as he did in the preseason, he probably ends up being the Otto Porter guy who gets maxed regardless of need.

    Obviously there's no guarantee he'll look that good.
     
  40. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    If he plays like he has preseason, 4 years at 15M per is one of the best contracts in the NBA.

    I don't think 5 is happening, since I think you can only have one of those 5 year extensions per team? I imagine they'd be saving that for Tatum or Brown if one of them hit his upside.
     
  41. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    If it happens, I think it’s something like 4/72.5. I would have been a no on that before the preseason, but damn it’s tempting at this point.
     
  42. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Marcus Smart is not going to get a no trade clause
     
  43. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Some C's predictions/projections:

    Ben Golliver SI: 3rd in East
    Alec Nathan BR: 57-25, 1st in East, 3rd overall
    Maurice Moton: 2nd in East, 6th overall
    Westgate LV sportsbook O/U: 56.5 (1st in East, 2nd overall) (Yes, I know that's not a prediction/projection)
    "Warriors vs Everybody" ESPN Rankings: 16th overall, 6th in East
    Chris Johles thesportster.com: 1st in East, 2nd overall
    AJ Neuharth-Keusch USAToday: 2nd in East, 6th overall
    Dave Zarum sportsnet: 1st in East, 3rd overall
    Matt Moore CBS Sports: 3rd in East, 7th overall
    David Aldridge NBA.com: 1st in East, 2nd overall
    538: 47-35, 2nd in East, 10th overall
    bowiac (10/8 version): 47-35, 5th in East, 12th overall

    All over the place, anywhere between 2nd and 16th overall, 1st to 6th in the East, and 47 to 57 wins, with the public perception generally more optimistic than the analytically based projections.
     
  44. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

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    538 has them right about where I think they will finish
     
  45. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    I get that the analytics don't "like" the Celtics that much. But the ESPN "6th/16th" projection is utter garbage; there's not 5 teams in the East better than the Celtics.
     
  46. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    To beat the Warriors. If you look at the projected wins, they aren't 6th.
     
  47. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    True, although the ESPN rankings are still utter garbage.
     
  48. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    If for no other reason than he isn't eligible for one. Requirements include being 8 years in the league and 4 with your most recent team.
     
    #998 HomeRunBaker, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  49. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    They are, but internally, they follow the trend. Their projections say 44 wins, their people are predicting 50+. Projections do not like the Boston Celtics for some reason or another. We'll see who is right.
     
  50. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I'm predicting 50-55 wins. If forced to pick one number, I'd go with 53.
     

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