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2017-18 Providence College Hoops: Great Expectations?

Discussion in 'College Sports' started by CouchsideSteve, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    HE WAS NOT FOULED.
     
  2. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    Ummm... WTF was that? Replay?
     
  3. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Are you joking with me?
     
  4. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    AGAIN with the OT.
     
  5. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    Edward's was wide open there
     
  6. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Cartwright gets hit on the arm on the shot. No call, but Brunson gets breathed on the other end, and he goes to the line.
     
  7. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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  8. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    I don't feel good about this. So if course PC will win by 12
     
  9. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    By the way Gus should send a fruit basket to Cooley after this is over. 3 Overtime games?
     
  10. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    No foul again. He's getting mugged.
     
  11. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    This is exhausting
     
  12. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Rebounding.
     
  13. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    Man I wish they reset the shot clock there
     
  14. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Bridges is pretty damn good
     
  15. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Would love to know what the second chance points look like. Swear half of Nova's points have come after offensive rebounds.
     
  16. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    These shot clock miracles are gruesome.
     
  17. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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  18. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    That should do it. Was it enough to climb up to a 7 seed?
     
  19. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yeah three shot clock beaters in a row is really tough to swallow.
     
  20. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Would love to have known how the end of regulation played out if they didn't gift Brunson two points and the tie.
     
  21. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Hell of a run for this team. Hope they carry it over to the next tournament and continue to give teams fits.
     
  22. shawnrbu

    shawnrbu Member SoSH Member

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    Hope they get sent to a pod that has actual fans instead of a half empty arena. This team thrives in a big atmosphere.
     
  23. Mugsy's Jock

    Mugsy's Jock Longtime Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Really impressive effort.

    I’m a Providence native and Friars fan since Ernie and Marvin. Love how Cooley,s teams never fail to be smart and hard-working.
     
  24. Mloaf71

    Mloaf71 lurker

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    Would love to end up in the east with a potential sweet 16 in Boston.
     
  25. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    Was out at a bar last night (not my choice), so I had to watch the game on mute. Obviously proud and impressed with how the kids battled, and of course, with Cooley for pushing all the right buttons. Drew Edwards hadn’t played real crunch time minutes since the Nov game against Washington, but he stepped up big.

    The foul call that sent Brunson to the line to tie it was weak, but there were only 30 fouls called in the 45min of play, and PC shot one more FT than Nova, which was refreshing given recent history. Brunson and Bridges just made too many clutch shots, despite a damn near heroic effort from Cartwright (only 1 turnover playing all 45min) and major contributions from Jackson and Diallo.

    Not to focus on the negative, since this was an overwhelmingly positive week, but I do wonder if Cooley considers bringing Lindsey off the bench in the tournament. He hasn’t been quite right since the concussion, and it might be throw an unexpected wrinkle to start Jackson (better ball handler) before jumping to the normal rotation.
     
  26. Dehere

    Dehere Member SoSH Member

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    Really hope this team gets to play their first tourney game on Friday to get an extra day off after three OTs in three days. Charlotte, Detroit, Nashville would all be Friday sites with no time change.
     
  27. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Providence gets a 10 seed. Playing Texas A&M on Friday in Charlotte. Discuss.
     
  28. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    Worth noting: Friars were 35th in the master seeding list (i.e., a 9) but we’re bumped to a 10 since the committee avoids pairing in-conference matchups in the first two rounds. So in that sense, a reasonable evaluation gone awry because of Nova & Xavier’s success.

    The good? Should be a 7:20pm Friday tip-off against a beatable opponent (more on that later). The bad? A potential Round 2 tilt against UNC in Charlotte is absurd, especially as a third time in five years matchup.
     
  29. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Probably the 9:45 game. I am expecting them to win.
     
  30. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    UNC and Providence played in 2014 and 2016 so we're due to face off again. Good luck.
     
  31. shawnrbu

    shawnrbu Member SoSH Member

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    12:15 PM start time on Friday.
     
  32. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Such a unique matchup versus A & M's two bigs in the middle which could take away what has been great matchup opportunities to iso Diallo in the paint. Maybe his quick first step in facing a big will create foul problems for Williams and Davis? On the other end if we can clog up the paint on these two and force them to shoot (and miss) 3's which they are prone to do we have a chance.

    Overall, I dislike the matchup and feel we'll need at least one of Lindsey/Bullock/Cartwright to catch fire from 3 early as this is a difficult team to play from behind against with the two bigs inside. They are capable and we are scrappy enough to pull it with bigs historically coming up small in March and following our loss in TBE Finals to keep us nice and hungry.

    Providence 81
    Texas A&M 74
     
  33. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    I’m also less optimistic about tomorrow’s matchup than I was when it was announced. Stylistically, A&M reminds me of Seton Hall and early-season Minnesota, both team that tore the Friars up inside. On the other hand, Cartwright and Diallo (as HRB noted) should present defensive problems for their guards, and the Aggies really don’t shoot well as a team. (Noteworthy: The line has moved a point in PC’s favor, from +3.5 to +2.5.)

    I’m hoping Nate Watson starts and gets a decently long leash. He simply brings a different level of physicality and athleticism than Young (especially coming off a rolled angle). But they’ll ultimately go as far as the 3 seniors and Diallo take them. In the Big East tournament it was pretty far, given 3 of 4 were great for prolonged stretches. That said, the offensive efficiency they’ve shown recently is bound to regress if Lindsey can’t get going (0-7 from three vs. Nova).

    Let’s see what wrinkles Cooley might have up his sleeve... on beneath his waist towel!
     
  34. moretsyndrome

    moretsyndrome Member SoSH Member

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  35. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Jalen Lindsey, the worlds most disappointing 43% 3-point shooter over the past two years. Way to come up small.
     
  36. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    Disappointed, but it’s perhaps Cooley’s best recruiting class coming in this fall. A lot to look forward to.

    Will post an off-season outlook in the next few days.
     
  37. scottyno

    scottyno Member SoSH Member

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    I don't follow recruiting that much but better than Dunn and Ledo? Or does Ledo not count anymore since he never actually played.
     
  38. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Scout has us 8th in the nation that year with Dunn and Ledo, ESPN 9th and CBS all the way up to #5. Duke and Reeves are legit Top-50 guys but Dunn and Ledo were both consensus Top-20 which is a big difference. Nonetheless, Scout has us at #9 right now while the others have us in the teens. All good stuff plus you have Dickens joining that class as a redshirt this season.
     
  39. MillarTime

    MillarTime Member SoSH Member

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    You guys had a great year, but with the recruits you have coming in, you should be set up for a sustained run...
     
  40. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks for keeping me honest, HRB. There's no doubt Dunn and Ledo were more highly touted than Duke and Reeves, and that the average class ranking for 2012 > 2018, especially considering there are a bunch of top-150 recruits still uncommitted this year. That said, the full look-back using 247Sports composite rankings (which I find easiest to query), suggests 2012, 2014, 2017 & 2018 are all pretty comparable:
    • 2012: 20th overall, led by Ledo (#11), Dunn (#16) & Fortune (#264)
    • 2013: 51st overall, led by Brandon Austin (#47) & Bullock (#157)
    • 2014: 20th overall, led by Chukwu (#67), Lindsey (#77), Bentil (#95) & Cartwright (#277)
    • 2015: 66th overall, led by Alex Owens (#143), Edwards (#290), Ricky Council (#365), Ryan Fazekas (#390) & Quadree Smith (#393)
    • 2016: 46th overall, led by Diallo (#117), White (#127) & Young (#398)
    • 2017: 21st overall, led by Ashton-Langford (#41), Watson (#100) & Dickens (#143)
    • 2018: 18th overall*, led by Duke (#42), Reeves (#44), Nichols (#168) & Monroe (#284)
    *Expecting 2018 will settle in the mid-20s once all commitments are signed.

    Didn't post this to quibble in any way, since I prefer 2012 to 2018 on paper -- just thought it was interesting exercise.
     
  41. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I hope I'm simply being a worry wart but I'm a huge believer in the Copycat Theory. Simply put, when someone in a similar situation or competition reaches a much greater level it opens up your eyes to believe you can do it too. We saw it with black athletes in the 50's/60's led by Jackie Robinson, Rhode Islanders out there remember when Faxon and Andrade were putting along (pun intended) on the PGA tour until Andrade won back-to-back tournaments when suddenly Faxon's game rises and wins one the following month and two more the next year. Anyway......

    * Chris Mack, former Xavier player who grew up miles from the school lands his dream job at Xavier that he never wants to leave.
    * Ed Cooley, while not a D-1 player (Stonehill) he grew up a huge Friar fan miles from the school and lands his dream job at Providence that he never wants to leave.

    * Mack leaves his dream job for Louisville where he'll be one of the games highest paid coaches on a 7/$28m deal.
    * Cooley..........(thinking?)

    Someone please convince me otherwise.
     
  42. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    If you had told me Cooley and Mack were the same age, before I just looked it up, I would not have believed you
     
  43. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    I wouldn't say you're being a worry wart. PC isn't one of the marquee coaching jobs in the country so you're always going to worry, no matter who or when, that the coach will leave. That said, PC isn't a mid-major, stepping stone job either so it's somewhere in between. I don't think Cooley's done quite enough yet to worry about a major program poaching him and i don't think he'd leave to coach at a similar program even for more money.
    He's also not a young guy either. Not to say he's old but he's not really in the age demo that would be considered a phenom or next big thing. He's also never been on campus at a large institution. URI, BC, Fairfield, and now PC. I don't know that that means anything but perhaps it speaks to where his comfort lies with regards to school culture, relationships, with administration, and boosters.
     
  44. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    Old friend MarShon Brooks signed a 10 Day contract with Memphis after his Chinese league season (where he averaged 36 ppg or something) and led the Grizzlies with 21 points in a win over the Blazers. Came off the bench and played 21 minutes.
     
  45. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

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    Following up...Brooks has played in 3 games and averaged 23 PPG with nearly 4 APG. Parlayed those 3 games into a 2 year guaranteed contract with the Grizz. Good for him.
     
  46. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    I have a long bus ride before me today, so I thought I would type out my belated retrospective on the 2017-18 season. While any season that includes multiple wins over top-5 opponents, a run to the Big East final, and a tournament appearance should be considered largely successful, to sum it up in a few words, this team... left something to be desired.

    It might seem like 20/20 hindsight, but I wrote something to the effect at the time: the 2nd game loss to Minnesota was fateful. Up 5 early in the second half, Cartwright misses a transition layup, and it all goes to hell from there. While Cartwright might be single-handedly responsible for this team even making the tournament (i.e., Belmont buzzer beater, incredible performances in the BE tournament) his unevenness — partially due to injury — was emblematic of the whole team’s struggles for all of Nov through Jan. Something was just a bit off until very late in the season.

    Lost to history, but they had a chance to cut URI’s lead to 1 late in that game, but missed the front end of a one-and-one (8pts from Cartwright & Lindsey combined); up 5 on the road at UMass, but then missed 11 straight shots (!) to surrender the lead and incur an awful road loss; had Marquette buried (~95% win prob with 2min to play) without Bullock, but squandered the lead. That’s to say nothing of the dodged bullets against Belmont, Brown & Stony Brook. Every season has a gut punch loss or two and maybe a couple of WTF games, but this team felt downright bipolar.

    The careers of Cartwright, Lindsey and Bullock are ones to be celebrated. There is of course a lot of “what if,” imagining if Bentil or Chukwu stayed longer, or if Holt was healthy this year. But those kids were central to the change in culture and expectations that we saw these last four years. They also played their asses off, and when backs were against the wall these past two seasons, they ground out several improbable wins to punch their NCAA tournament tickets.

    Now the page turns, and the question is whether the team takes a step back in 2018-19 before what should be a loaded 2019-20 team blossoms. Or do they have enough — can they keep enough of these guys in the fold, and can Emmitt Holt come back — to make a run at 6 tournament bids in a row? Assuming Holt gets back, a starting five of Ashton-Langford (PG), Jackson (G/F), Diallo (G/F), Holt (PF) & Watson (C) is long, athletic and above average defensively at four positions. What the group lacks is shooting, so enter Maliek White and two freshman who can, by all accounts, shoot the lights out (Duke & Reeves). We’ve also seen Drew Edwards thrive in big spots, both offensively and defensively.

    It’s not who is coming back that concerns me — it’s who might not. With Holt, we simply don’t know. With Maliek White, who was recruited to be Cartwright’s successor at PG, is he happy sharing minutes in what’s now a really deep back-court? Kalif Young, who has played a ton of important minutes for a 3-star late signee, projects to play less behind Watson (arguably the highest ceiling player on the team), and we know Dajour Dickens will play some as a redshirt Freshman. You can only play one of those guys at a time, unless Watson develops a 3-point shot. Edwards’ situation might be complicated by his 2016-17 redshirt status, but the kid was part of the crunch time five in Kris Dunn’s last year and now has a very uncertain playing time outlook. These types of things have a way of working themselves out, but the concern is having quality depth to pair with your stars (Diallo & Watson now; MAL, Duke & Reeves possibly soon). The 2015-16 team led by Dunn & Bentil would have had a much different fate were it not for the utter lack of a bench. Keeping the current and less heralded group of rising Juniors in the fold is what I’ll be closely monitoring these next couple of months.
     
  47. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    Relevant offseason news:

    - Emmitt Holt fully cleared to practice, per Jon Rothstein. I’ve heard secondhand the report might be slightly premature, but it’s nonetheless a great sign that Holt is likely to be back come November. Huge development.

    - Annual game vs. URI to be held at the Dunk on Sat, 12/1/18. The atmosphere of these games in recent years has been incredible.

    - Notably, no one has transferred as I feared. Fingers crossed, but if someone is looking to move, you’d expect to see it in the next 3 weeks, if at all.
     
  48. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    Well, it’s June 10th and most of the Friars roster is on campus for summer session. The risk of transfer this late is pretty low, particularly with the team traveling to Italy in Aug. (One unsubstantiated rumor I’ve heard is that Drew Edwards could graduate after summer session, freeing him up to transfer without sitting a year... but that would be an unusual move.)

    The Big East should be wide open in 2018-19, with Nova losing 4 players to the NBA draft, Xavier and Seton Hall graduating program-shaping classes, and Butler graduating one of the best players in the conference these part two years. But the Friars are losing a strong group of seniors too, as discussed at length in this thread. Georgetown is a program on the rise, St. John’s is adding a an impact transfer in Mustapha Heron to pair with preseason POY favorite Shamorie Ponds, and Marquette should be much improved.

    Here’s my way too early power rankings, with draft/transfer season behind us:

    1-Nova
    2-Marquette
    3-Xavier
    4-St. John’s
    5-Providence
    6-Georgetown
    7-Butler
    8-Seton Hall
    9-Creighton
    10-DePaul

    I think the Friars’ ceiling is 2 or 3, while their floor is 9. So much depends on: A) Holt’s health, which remains a question mark — seems very likely he’ll play, but illness caused him to drop a lot of weight and he will presumably be asked to play a new position (the 4), after a year off. Is he a role player, reliable starter, or the borderline all-conference talent we saw in March 2017?; and B) Can top-50 recruits David Duke and AJ Reeves provide quality backcourt minutes and shooting by the time conference play opens? If not, this team is going to be capped by limited offensive upside.
     
  49. CouchsideSteve

    CouchsideSteve Member SoSH Member

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    All scholarship players (plus Andrew Fonts) are on campus for summer workouts. That includes Emmitt Holt, who is participating in contact drills and, while noticeably slimmer, looks pretty cut (program has an active Instagram presence). So everyone is back!

    Here’s my early guess at the Oct/Nov rotation:

    Starters: PG- Ashton-Langford, G- White, F- Jackson, F- Diallo, C- Watson

    Key reserves: Holt (F), Edwards (G/F), Duke (G), Reeves (G), Young (C)

    Development/limited minutes: Dickens (C), Nichols (G/F)

    Redshirt: Monroe (G/F)
     
  50. DrBlinky

    DrBlinky Member SoSH Member

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