2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread

wonderland

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Jul 20, 2005
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He’s like Marvin Lewis.
Yeah Brooks is not Stevens but Lewis has never won a playoff game. Brooks has coached a team to the nba finals. He’s won a lot more than he’s lost. Wall has a lot of rust after being out quite a while.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah Brooks is not Stevens but Lewis has never won a playoff game. Brooks has coached a team to the nba finals. He’s won a lot more than he’s lost. Wall has a lot of rust after being out quite a while.
He coached a team to the NBA Finals that had 2 of the top, I don't know, 7 players in the world on it?

I mean, that's great, but he just seems so relentlessly mediocre. If Brad Stevens retired tomorrow, and the Celtics hired Scott Brooks, 99.6% of Celtics fans would immediately go "Ugh....really?" and every guy named Sully in Boston would text his buddies "WTF?"

He's Jim Caldwell. He's Ron Gardenhire.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He coached a team to the NBA Finals that had 2 of the top, I don't know, 7 players in the world on it?

I mean, that's great, but he just seems so relentlessly mediocre. If Brad Stevens retired tomorrow, and the Celtics hired Scott Brooks, 99.6% of Celtics fans would immediately go "Ugh....really?" and every guy named Sully in Boston would text his buddies "WTF?"

He's Jim Caldwell. He's Ron Gardenhire.
Brooks is not a great coach but he is good enough. Furthermore, as has been noted in this forum, he was brought to Washington partly with the hope that he plus the lure of home would woo Durant to the Wizards. That clearly didn't work so part of Brooks utility has diminished.

I do wonder whether both he and Wall will be in Washington next year. Brooks for the aforementioned reasons and Wall because Washington seems to have plateaued with this roster. Again, I wonder if Wall winds up at LeBron's next destination - or if James stays in Cleveland, maybe they make a play for him with the Brooklyn pick plus a bunch of bodies.
 

Kliq

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Westbrook since the ASG: 26.5/11/9 on 47 percent shooting. Do I hear First Team All-NBA?
 

Bosox1528

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He coached a team to the NBA Finals that had 2 of the top, I don't know, 7 players in the world on it?

I mean, that's great, but he just seems so relentlessly mediocre. If Brad Stevens retired tomorrow, and the Celtics hired Scott Brooks, 99.6% of Celtics fans would immediately go "Ugh....really?" and every guy named Sully in Boston would text his buddies "WTF?"

He's Jim Caldwell. He's Ron Gardenhire.
3 of the top 7 players in the world at this point, not 2
 

wonderland

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Jul 20, 2005
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He coached a team to the NBA Finals that had 2 of the top, I don't know, 7 players in the world on it?

I mean, that's great, but he just seems so relentlessly mediocre. If Brad Stevens retired tomorrow, and the Celtics hired Scott Brooks, 99.6% of Celtics fans would immediately go "Ugh....really?" and every guy named Sully in Boston would text his buddies "WTF?"

He's Jim Caldwell. He's Ron Gardenhire.
When they were what 23 years old? That’s pretty good from where I sit. After that, injuries and the little return for Harden hurt them more than Brooks.

Washington had their best season in a long time last year. It’s been disappointing this year but Wall’s injury has hurt them. Brooks did a great job getting the team going after Wall was sidelined.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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It's half Presti's fault for making the deal in the first place but the usage of Kendrick Perkins across multiple playoffs for OKC will forever shade my opinion of Brooks.
 

Sam Ray Not

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John Wall has always struck me as incredibly overrated.
+1. And by himself perhaps more than anyone, which is never a great look.

How many times did Beal and Porter (both much better shooters and scorers than Wall) touch the ball in those last several possessions?
 

HomeRunBaker

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John Wall has always struck me as incredibly overrated.
It is amazing to me how good Wall turned out after being thrown into a lineup and a locker room as a 20-year old with JaVale, Blatche, Nick Young, and others. His biggest problem has been having teammates who didn't best fit his style of play. For years, Wittman insisted on having two lumbering bigs on the floor with him at all times......to me, the makeup of his teams has been criminal.

How many better distributors are there in the game? Wall has been held back by not having teammates capable of running with him. He was phenomenal last season making a big leap.....he's taken a step back this year not due to anything other than health.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He's a good distributor but he makes Russell Westbrook look efficient. Last year some of talking heads were calling him the 2nd or 3rd best PG in the game.
 

Sam Ray Not

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How many better distributors are there in the game? Wall has been held back by not having teammates capable of running with him. He was phenomenal last season making a big leap.....he's taken a step back this year not due to anything other than health.
Absent other elite skills, my sense is that being a "distributor" is of pretty limited value in today's NBA, especially in a small(ish) guy. I'd argue that the most important skill for a small guy in today's NBA (or maybe even yesterday's NBA?) is shooting. Stockton and CP3, the all-time gold standards for the "true PG" position, were elite distributors ... but they were/are also elite shooters. They also took/take care of the ball much, much better than Wall — dropping dimes at a similar or better rate, while turning it over far less frequently.

And heck, even CP3 and Stockton have run into limitations going up against teams built around long, distributing two-way wings (Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, LeBron, e.g.) The next time a team built around a small, ball-dominant player whose main skill is "distribution" competes for a championship will be the first time in ... ever?

I mean, is John Wall better than, say, Rajon Rondo or Ricky Rubio? Rondo and Rubio are similarly poor shooters, but are more aware of that limitation so tend not to shoot their team out of games. They both drop dimes at a similar rate, but turn it over significantly less. And Rondo's a much better rebounder — Wall's current rebounding rate of 3.7 per 36 is lame for a guy as long, rugged and athletic as he is.

I feel like Wall needs to start thinking of himself more like Rondo or Rubio if he wants to be a key part of a highly effective team rather than a wannabe star who piles up fantasy numbers for a 45-win team.
 
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slamminsammya

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Absent other elite skills, my sense is that being a "distributor" is of pretty limited value in today's NBA, especially in a small(ish) guy. I'd argue that the most important skill for a small guy in today's NBA (or maybe even yesterday's NBA?) is shooting. Stockton and CP3, the all-time gold standards for the "true PG" position, were seen as elite distributors ... but they were/are also elite shooters. They also took/take care of the ball much, much better than Wall — dropping dimes at a similar or better rate, while turning it over far less frequently.

And heck, even CP3 and Stockton have run into limitations going up against teams built around long, distributing two-way wings (Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, LeBron, e.g.) The next time a team built around a small, ball-dominant player whose main skill is "distribution" competes for a championship will be the first time in ... ever?

I mean, is John Wall better than, say, Rajon Rondo or Ricky Rubio? Rondo and Rubio are similarly poor shooters, but are more aware of that limitation so tend not to shoot their team out of games. They both drop dimes at a similar rate, but turn it over significantly less. And Rondo's a much better rebounder — Wall's current rebounding rate of 3.7 per 36 is lame for a guy as long, rugged and athletic as he is.

I feel like Wall needs to start thinking of himself more like Rondo or Rubio if he wants to be a key part of a highly effective team rather than a wannabe star who piles up fantasy numbers for a 45-win team.
This is harsh but fair.

I think your point about pure distributors being less valued nowadays is spot on. With all the ball movement and unselfish play that's taken over these days most assists are the simple pass, the inevitable result of many moves that each led to someone being wide open. In that context the value of making the very difficult pass is much less, much like how a fall away from the elbow, while important in MJs heyday, is now considered impressive but suboptimal. Why have a Rondo when you can have a 3 pt specialist who creates passing lanes simply by sitting in the corner?
 

BigSoxFan

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And heck, even CP3 and Stockton have run into limitations going up against teams built around long, distributing two-way wings (Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, LeBron, e.g.) The next time a team built around a small, ball-dominant player whose main skill is "distribution" competes for a championship will be the first time in ... ever?
Isiah Thomas? But, yeah, I agree with your overall point. As for Stockton, his only limitation was that he had the misfortune of competing against prime Jordan. If MJ sticks with baseball, the Jazz would have probably a ring.
 

Sam Ray Not

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As for Stockton, his only limitation was that he had the misfortune of competing against prime Jordan. If MJ sticks with baseball, the Jazz would have probably a ring.
Yeah, agreed. But again, a big part of what made that team click was that Stockton was also a low-key fantastic shooter (who in the post-Curry world would almost certainly have shot a whole lot more; I know Nash after watching Curry regretted not exploiting his own elite shooting more aggressively when he was in his prime).
 

terrynever

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76ers up 41-28 after one. Running, dunking, passing, led by Simmons. Fultz just drove lane twice for driving reverse layups.
 

terrynever

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A lot of people were talking about Jay Wright taking his job, but I think this Brett Brown can coach a little bit
That was media talk.
Up 22. Cavs are dead tired after playing last night. Fultz putting on a highlight show while subbing for Simmons.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's a good distributor but he makes Russell Westbrook look efficient. Last year some of talking heads were calling him the 2nd or 3rd best PG in the game.
That's because he pretty much was. He's made 5 consecutive All-Star games in a PG-loaded EC and was 3rd Team All-NBA last season.......I'm not the only one impressed by him these past few years prior to this season. The Wizards are a feared second round playoff opponent with a healthy Wall and a lottery team without him.....his OnCourt/OffCourt numbers the past few years, even this season playing on one leg, also confirm the eye test.

As I said he made a big leap and this year he's been injured so not much you can do about that.......except maybe point to his RebRate while playing injured like Sam did. Calling a 3rd Team All-NBA guard a similar player as a backup PG in New Orleans is kinda silly. Mind you, I'm not referring to his production this season while playing hurt only to his growth each of the past 5-6 years.