2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread

Reverend

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LeBron sits with 7 minutes to go.

One assist and one rebound short of a triple double. :)
 

Marbleheader

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Lots of skewering of the Cavs front office for the Kyrie trade on the Twitterverse. IT getting hammered as well.
 

mauf

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Chris Paul is +40 through 3 quarters. In Cleveland. The Cavs postgame comments after this should be glorious.

Speaking of postgame comments, you guys see Marcus Morris break into Stevens conference last night? He started singing the Eagles fight song and Stevens announced he was suspended indefinitely.

EDIT: 102-72!! And Lebron is nearly a triple double. lol
With 5 minutes to go, CP3 is +47, with 11 assists and 0 turnovers. Wow.
 

Reverend

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Everyone still there should get to be on the jumbotron.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Nuggets beat Golden State for the 2nd time this year. The Nuggets can be so good and so bad.
I would love to see Kemba Walker go to your Nuggets. He would make them very tough.

That said, the Warriors flew in from their game in Sacto last night and got to their hotel at 4am. For them, this was nothing more than a schedule loss. However Denver plays them tough so more firepower for them would make a Den/GS series very interesting.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think there may be a weird Peter principle thing going on with Lebron. His on court talent is beyond question, but as a player/coach/GM who is unwilling to commit to his team over the long haul, he may not be able to give his teams the best chance to win. He's had a good run in his return to Cleveland, but maybe he is the reason it is all falling apart now. And, looking back, was the Wiggins/Love deal really the right move? Maybe it was at the time, but Wiggins would be a nice fit today on this old and athletically challenged Cavs team.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I think there may be a weird Peter principle thing going on with Lebron. His on court talent is beyond question, but as a player/coach/GM who is unwilling to commit to his team over the long haul, he may not be able to give his teams the best chance to win. He's had a good run in his return to Cleveland, but maybe he is the reason it is all falling apart now. And, looking back, was the Wiggins/Love deal really the right move? Maybe it was at the time, but Wiggins would be a nice fit today on this old and athletically challenged Cavs team.
Kevin O'Connor laying some blame at the feet of LeBron pushing for big contracts to Klutch Sports clients:

 

Sox and Rocks

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I would love to see Kemba Walker go to your Nuggets. He would make them very tough.

That said, the Warriors flew in from their game in Sacto last night and got to their hotel at 4am. For them, this was nothing more than a schedule loss. However Denver plays them tough so more firepower for them would make a Den/GS series very interesting.
They're missing an alpha scorer (though Murray is well on his way) and perimeter D, especially at the 3.

Lebron would be the perfect addition for them (like most teams, lol). His game would really compliment Jokic, Murray, Harris, Lyles, and Millsap. He could push these young players over the top without always having to carry them.

Okay, I'll stop dreaming now...
 

Bosox1528

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I think there may be a weird Peter principle thing going on with Lebron. His on court talent is beyond question, but as a player/coach/GM who is unwilling to commit to his team over the long haul, he may not be able to give his teams the best chance to win. He's had a good run in his return to Cleveland, but maybe he is the reason it is all falling apart now. And, looking back, was the Wiggins/Love deal really the right move? Maybe it was at the time, but Wiggins would be a nice fit today on this old and athletically challenged Cavs team.
First of all, Andrew Wiggins sucks. He's a below average NBA player. His BPM has been below replacement level for four straight years. His RPM is a little bit better but still well below average.

Kevin Love is a significantly better basketball player than Andrew Wiggins and has been for all four years. Without the Wiggins for Love deal there is not championship.

You also say "He may not be able to give his teams this best chance to win"

Well who would give his teams "the best chance to win"? then? The Cavaliers are the only team in the past 3 years to win a championship other than Golden State. And Golden State has 4 all stars and 2 MVPs. No one is beating Golden State. So how can anyone else give the Cavs "a better chance to win", when Lebron has already won a championship. What you think the Cavs would've won 2 championships with someone else? Which year would the Cavs have won another championship? Would it be the year when Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were out and Lebron was complemented by all-stars Matthew Delavadova and Timofey Mozgov? Or would it be the year when Golden State added a top 5 player in the NBA to a 73-9 team?

I think you can criticize Lebron for encouraging the overpaying of mediocre players. But arguing that the Wiggins/Love deal was a bad deal, or the Cavs would be better off without Lebron is absurd
 

johnmd20

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First of all, Andrew Wiggins sucks. He's a below average NBA player. His BPM has been below replacement level for four straight years. His RPM is a little bit better but still well below average.

Kevin Love is a significantly better basketball player than Andrew Wiggins and has been for all four years. Without the Wiggins for Love deal there is not championship.

You also say "He may not be able to give his teams this best chance to win"

Well who would give his teams "the best chance to win"? then? The Cavaliers are the only team in the past 3 years to win a championship other than Golden State. And Golden State has 4 all stars and 2 MVPs. No one is beating Golden State. So how can anyone else give the Cavs "a better chance to win", when Lebron has already won a championship. What you think the Cavs would've won 2 championships with someone else? Which year would the Cavs have won another championship? Would it be the year when Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were out and Lebron was complemented by all-stars Matthew Delavadova and Timofey Mozgov? Or would it be the year when Golden State added a top 5 player in the NBA to a 73-9 team?

I think you can criticize Lebron for encouraging the overpaying of mediocre players. But arguing that the Wiggins/Love deal was a bad deal, or the Cavs would be better off without Lebron is absurd
Lebron has made the finals 7 years in a row and won 3. His losses have been to juggernauts, excepting maybe Dallas. He dragged the Cavs to a 2-1 lead in 2015, despite not having both Kyrie and Love.

There is no other player in the league who has been in 7 straight finals. To assert he doesn't give his team the best chance to win is pretty silly.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Lebron has made the finals 7 years in a row and won 3. His losses have been to juggernauts, excepting maybe Dallas. He dragged the Cavs to a 2-1 lead in 2015, despite not having both Kyrie and Love.

There is no other player in the league who has been in 7 straight finals. To assert he doesn't give his team the best chance to win is pretty silly.
I literally do not have a bad word to say about Lebron the player. But if you think that Lebron the coach/GM/future free agent doesn't have a huge hand in the Cavs current struggles, I don't know what to say...
 

the moops

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I literally do not have a bad word to say about Lebron the player. But if you think that Lebron the coach/GM/future free agent doesn't have a huge hand in the Cavs current struggles, I don't know what to say...
It is true. It is equally as true that Lebron the coach/GM had a huge hand in getting them to 7 straight finals. He hasn't acted all that much different than a GM who is in GFIN mode. And you can't really expect a player to take the long term view of his team.
 

RetractableRoof

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Lebron has made the finals 7 years in a row and won 3. His losses have been to juggernauts, excepting maybe Dallas. He dragged the Cavs to a 2-1 lead in 2015, despite not having both Kyrie and Love.

There is no other player in the league who has been in 7 straight finals. To assert he doesn't give his team the best chance to win is pretty silly.
You can make a pretty good case that one of those 3 trophies was a gift from Draymond Green and the NBA league office. Doesn't really minimize your point, but giving him overwhelming credit for winning a series that was gifted him doesn't feel balanced either.

Edit: Have my facts wrong, everything below is wrong - thanks 'the moops'.

[And just to keep myself occupied before kickoff - I'd argue that the 7 straight finals was not a function of Lebron giving his team the best chance - but Wade giving his team the best chance. After all Lebron didn't leave any money on the table - Wade did. If Wade says "pay me" to Pat Riley, there is no superteam, and Lebron doesn't have a 7 year streak. It makes for nice graphics for the NBA telecasts and things - but I hate Wade with the fire of 10,000 suns, and acknowledge he's responsible for that streak every bit as much as Lebron was. Wade enabled it with his team first decision and then they all executed it.

To repeat, I agree with your point in general - but let's not overstate Lebron's case, his play states a pretty damn good case on its own.]
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Lebron, Bosh, and Wade all left money on the table. 15 million each I believe
This is correct. They each left around $2m a piece off of their starting salary, Wade a little bit more I believe, so that they could also add Miller and Haslem.
 

benhogan

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Watching the Heat, Zards, Sixers, Pistons and Pacers hunt down the Cavs is the best use of League Pass going forward.

The Lakers vs. NBA Tankers (Mavs, Kings, Hawks, Grizz, Magic, Suns, Bulls) is over, LA has dusted that gut-less lot.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Best team in the NBA over the last couple of weeks ... the Utah Jazz. Six straight wins now, including @TOR, @SA, @DET and absolute pastings of the Warriors, Suns and Pelicans. Tonight they somehow needed only 2 points from Donovan Mitchell to drop 133 on NOLA. Ricky Rubio has somehow found his inner Pete Maravich and dropped 54 over his past two games.

Any given February in the NBA...
 

Kliq

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What is happening with the Wizards is very interesting. Wall is a lot like Westbrook, he puts up assist numbers but still comes across as a selfish player at times. The problem is he is like a A- version of Westbrook, which could be an issue, since I think Westbrook surpasses his inefficiencies by being just so ridiculously talented that he makes it work, and I’m not sure Wall has just the ability to take over games the way Westbrook does. Wall is like the Vince Carter to Russ’ Kobe. I know that probably doesn’t make any sense and is supported by zero statistical data, but I believe it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Ricky Rubio has somehow found his inner Pete Maravich and dropped 54 over his past two games.

Any given February in the NBA...
The Ricky Rubio Resurgence is amazing. He is actually shooting and making it from deep for the first time in his career. Since the new year, he is 41% from beyond the arc. I suspect we will soon see the Ricky Rubio Regression but this guy with a respectable (~ mid 30 percent) three point stroke is an entirely different animal than the Rubio we all knew in Minnesota.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mentioned this in the game thread but probably should have poste it here.

Which league has the highest % of entertaining games vs. non-entertaining games over the course of the season: NBA, NFL, or MLB. My gut feeling is that NBA is way ahead.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Mentioned this in the game thread but probably should have poste it here.

Which league has the highest % of entertaining games vs. non-entertaining games over the course of the season: NBA, NFL, or MLB. My gut feeling is that NBA is way ahead.
How do you define entertaining vs non-entertaining?
 

luckiestman

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Mentioned this in the game thread but probably should have poste it here.

Which league has the highest % of entertaining games vs. non-entertaining games over the course of the season: NBA, NFL, or MLB. My gut feeling is that NBA is way ahead.

Idk man, if it isn’t Cs, Bs, Ys, or Jets I’m most likely to watch an NFL game. Basketball is as good as it’s been since I remember it in the 1980s, though.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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How do you define entertaining vs non-entertaining?
Subjective of course. For me, it's a question of whether I'm willing to watch a game in which I have no rooting interest. I guess fantasy football solves that problem for the NFL but the fact that I'm willing to watch (for example) a random LAL vs ORL game in January is a big positive for the NBA.
 

chilidawg

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What is happening with the Wizards is very interesting. Wall is a lot like Westbrook, he puts up assist numbers but still comes across as a selfish player at times. The problem is he is like a A- version of Westbrook, which could be an issue, since I think Westbrook surpasses his inefficiencies by being just so ridiculously talented that he makes it work, and I’m not sure Wall has just the ability to take over games the way Westbrook does. Wall is like the Vince Carter to Russ’ Kobe. I know that probably doesn’t make any sense and is supported by zero statistical data, but I believe it.
I think those are great comparisons. Wall seems to me as talented as Westbrook, but he just doesn't have the motor and mental drive. I think the same could be said about Carter and Kobe.
 

the moops

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Subjective of course. For me, it's a question of whether I'm willing to watch a game in which I have no rooting interest. I guess fantasy football solves that problem for the NFL but the fact that I'm willing to watch (for example) a random LAL vs ORL game in January is a big positive for the NBA.
If the LAL pick wasn't in play would you still watch?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Zach Lavine with a posterization of JaKarr Sampson as well as 27 points on 9-18 shooting including 4-8 from Auburn, CA but the Kings beat the Bulls 104-98 using a balanced attack with six players in double digits.

Meanwhile, the Mavs are giving the Clippers a game at Staples, up by 4 with 3+ minutes left. Soon-to-be-Celtic Lou Williams having a subpar shooting night but just scored four points to bring the Clippers back to striking distance.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Avery Bradley with a steal which leads to Gallinari FT and puts the Clips ahead with 24 seconds left. Then, on a jump ball off the back of a missed Yogi Ferrell three, DeAndre Jordan taps the ball to Avery who runs ahead and scores to essentially ice the game (Bradley maybe should have just dribbled it around but the Mavs couldn't do much with 0.7 left).

As a side note, Bradley is very likely to wind up elsewhere based on the NBA rumor mill. He would look good in OKC, Denver or maybe even Golden State as your bench-agitator-defender and sometimes marksman.
 
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Kliq

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I think those are great comparisons. Wall seems to me as talented as Westbrook, but he just doesn't have the motor and mental drive. I think the same could be said about Carter and Kobe.
I don't know if it's drive, (maybe in the Kobe vs Vince argument the difference was Kobe's determination to improve) but more that when you play a certain way, there is a fine line between being an All-NBA player and being a talented, but unsuccessful player. We saw it with Kobe, once he started to slip a little he went from being an MVP candidate to being a guy who was arguably detrimental to his entire team. I don't think Wall is exactly detrimental to the Wizards, but I do think he plays a style of basketball (everyone stand around while I decide what to do on this possession) that isn't necessarily a winning strategy. I think Westbrook is able to get away with it because he is just such a freak, and even Westbrook needs to learn how to defer more often.

Wall has a net rating of +5.3 this season, which is pretty good, but is behind contemporaries like Westbrook (+11.1), Curry (+11.5), Dame (+5.6), Kemba (+18.6) or even Bradley Beal (+8.2). Another big thing is how massive that contract he signed in the offseason was. We already saw the Clipper ditch Blake Griffin due to fears about the tail end of his supermax, and Wall's is actually more ridiculous, as he is going to make $40 million in 2021, $43 million in 2022 and $46 million in 2023, when he is going to be 32. Imo that is INSANE money to be paying a guy who hasn't solidified himself as a Top Ten player or realistic MVP candidate.

Also, I want to take this time to point out that Kemba Walker, who is averaging 22-6 with that insane net rating, did not make the All-Star game because Goran Dragic, who is averaging 17-4 and whose net rating is -8.5, made it instead because his team is marginally better.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If the LAL pick wasn't in play would you still watch?
Sure. I've watched random CHI, ORL, and PHO games, just to see how some of the young players are doing. Also, I've kind of resigned myself to SAC pock next season so pick isn't really in play. I wish I had more time to follow some of the West Coast teams too.

NBA seems to have a lot of compelling reasons to watch.
 

ElUno20

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Avery Bradley with a steal which leads to Gallinari FT and puts the Clips ahead with 24 seconds left. Then, on a jump ball off the back of a missed Yogi Ferrell three, DeAndre Jordan taps the ball to Avery who runs ahead and scores to essentially ice the game (Bradley maybe should have just dribbled it around but the Mavs couldn't do much with 0.7 left).

As a side note, Bradley is very likely to wind up elsewhere based on the NBA rumor mill. He would look good in OKC, Denver or maybe even Golden State as your bench-agitator-defender and sometimes marksman.
AB looks very average so far. Not the AB I remember
 

Sam Ray Not

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AB looks very average so far. Not the AB I remember
He was having a low-key horrific season for the Pistons: .497 true shooting, more turnovers than assists, and an insane drop in rebound rate, from 6.6 per 36 last season to 2.7 this season. By RPM he's currently worst regular shooting guard in the NBA at -3.32, including a -1.45 on D.

And if you believe TMZ, he's possibly a knucklehead off the court as well.

Looks like another Stevens creation, and another Ainge coup not to have inked him to a pricy long-term deal.

(Edit: hoping that there's nothing to the Warriors' rumored interest in him, though I'd probably take him for free if he was on the buyout scrap-heap).
 
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Kliq

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The Wizards have assisted on 74 percent of their baskets since Wall got injured, by far the best rate in the league per Lowe.
 

ishmael

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I think those are great comparisons. Wall seems to me as talented as Westbrook, but he just doesn't have the motor and mental drive. I think the same could be said about Carter and Kobe.
If Russ is Kobe, Wall is Vince, then who is the Paul Pierce of this group of PGs?
 

Light-Tower-Power

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He was having a low-key horrific season for the Pistons: .497 true shooting, more turnovers than assists, and an insane drop in rebound rate, from 6.6 per 36 last season to 2.7 this season. By RPM he's currently worst regular shooting guard in the NBA at -3.32, including a -1.45 on D.

And if you believe TMZ, he's possibly a knucklehead off the court as well.

Looks like another Stevens creation, and another Ainge coup not to have inked him to a pricy long-term deal.

(Edit: hoping that there's nothing to the Warriors' rumored interest in him, though I'd probably take him for free if he was on the buyout scrap-heap).
Drummond. AB has always been a poor ball-handler and assist guy and will get torched on D by bigger guards since he's undersized, but in the right system I can still see him being a valuable outside shooter and defender on smaller guards.
 

InstaFace

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If the LAL pick wasn't in play would you still watch?
That's the wrong way to think about it. The NBA's trade atmosphere and culture has encouraged the trading of picks such that it routinely increases fanbases' motivations to follow other teams. That is quite a positive unintended consequence, and they deserve credit for it, not just having it dismissed as some sort of fluke (as you appear to here - apologies if I'm misreading you).

That's a bit like saying "if there weren't cy young candidates pitching for bad baseball teams, would you watch those bad baseball teams?" Well, maybe not, but the fact remains that there are consistently reasons to watch teams that aren't yours or your division competitors.
 

cheech13

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John Wall is ineligible for a trade due to his supermax extension, right? If he can be traded there are a couple of teams that should make inquiries, starting first with Cleveland.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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John Wall is ineligible for a trade due to his supermax extension, right? If he can be traded there are a couple of teams that should make inquiries, starting first with Cleveland.
He is also a Klutch Sports client. I smell a potential new member of the banana boat...