You wouldn't know it from ESPN et al., but the Raptors have been significantly better than the Cavs so far this season.
2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread
- Thread starter DeJesus Built My Hotrod
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Better adjusted net rating than the Celtics too (albeit in significantly fewer games).
True, but they've been close enough where you could call them the same tier (+7.6 and +6.2 by B-Ref's SRS before tonight, which I imagine the Cs have closed slightly after smashing a tough team on the road).
By tiers, it's been:
1. HOU +11.0, GSW +10.8
2. TOR +7.6, BOS +6.2
3, (Twelve teams between 0 and +3.1)
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Ended up getting outscored 44-29 in the 4th, now down to .500 for the year. Good fight without two of their top 3, will be interesting to see if this sets progress back on them easing Embiid’s minutes restrictions.
He is balling out of late. 33 points on 11-24 shooting on Friday night over the LeBrons and now 47 on 15-28. I would argue that, after all the ridicule they got from the general sports watching public and considering that George was a mortal lock to bolt after this season, Pritchard won that deal handily.
Lost in the collapse was Trevor Booker's debut in which he poured in 16 points and nine boards in 24 minutes of play. Rajon Rondo had 18 assists in this game. And no, that isn't a typo.
Rondo is back and he's back big!
Is Oladipo the other Eastern Conference starting guard in the all-star game, with Kyrie?
Only potentially more deserving guy I can think of is Lowry, but he may inspire voter fatigue from being really good every year, and his scoring numbers are less gaudy (16.5 ppg to VO's 24.5). Beal is close, but Oladipo has him beat both by traditional and advanced numbers, plus his team has wildly outperformed their pre-season expectations while Beal's team has underperformed theirs. Ben Simmons is also probably in the convo, but his team is backsliding.
To me it's: Irving-Oladipo-James-Antetokounmpo-Horford, though I could see Drummond/Embiid beating out Horford, and Lowry/Beal/Simmons beating out Oladipo.
Edit: Curry-Harden-Durant-Davis-Cousins in the West, assuming (knocking wood) Steph doesn't miss too many more games. Aldridge, Jokic and Draymond in the convo for one the frontcourt spots.
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They were down 12 at halftime on the road without two of their top 3 guys, put up the monster third quarter to take the lead, then ran out of gas. To me that’s a good effort, YMMV.
D'oh yeah, good point. Still, the voting system is the same as last year: voters (50% fans, 25% media, 25% players) pick five starters from each conference, with coaches picking the seven reserves. Just positing that Oladipo has a good shot to be voted in as a starter.
Beal and Oladipo are in the conversation with Kyrie along with Simmons. All four are ahead of Lowry imo.
Probably, but Lowry needs love: 18.0 pts on .612 true shooting / 7.1 rebounds (!) / 7.8 assists per 36; #1 in RPM among Eastern shooting guards; leading the team with the best net rating in the conference.
He won't get enough fan votes cos he's Kyle Lowry, but imo he's more deserving than Beal or Simmons.
Wall has regressed in every area from last season (scoring volume, scoring efficiency, assists, rebounds, steals, RPM) and has played in 16 of his team's 26 games. If he comes back soon and leads the Wiz back to respectability, I'd definitely consider him, but for now he's well behind the other 5, imho. Kemba has a better case, but his team has slipped from mediocre (where they were expected to be) to bad.
Wall's been banged up with shoulder and knee problems since early in the season.....if it were East/West this year he'd be in my mix for the final guard spot. Kemba is having another very good year but these fringe guys who made it one year tend to be overlooked when another first-timer is making a leap and getting attention like Beal and Oladipo are this season.
And Simmons.
Even if/when healthy, Wall is no longer the East's "most freakishly gifted PG" or "most terrifying PG when he's racing down the court at full speed, lack of a jumper be damned."
I've watched a lot of Pacers games and I would take Oladipo over Paul George. He is so ridiculously long and athletic. He's also improved his shooting year over year from pretty much every spot on the floor. His rebounding, assist and steal rates have also returned to Orlando levels.
Add in the 6'10, 21 year old Sabonis and the Pacers got a haul. Sabonis is interesting in that he's actually moving closer to the rim and has taken far less 3s. He has a good inside game, can pass the ball, and is a great rebounder. I'd guess he'll add the 3 point shot back to his arsenal at some point. He's kinda like a mini Jokic. Turner, Oladipo, Sabonis is a nice core but I'm not sure how they'll add talent to it.
Sabonis has upped his rebounding rate from 6.4 to 12.5 boards per 36 which is basically unheard of (since rebounding more than any other skill tends to stay pretty constant in young players).
Meanwhile, Kanter has gone from 11.3 to 14.4, Dougie McBuckets has gone from 4.1 to 4.7. and Oladipo has gone from 4.7 to 5.7.
No idea what happened to all those rebounds in OKC.
Meanwhile, Kanter has gone from 11.3 to 14.4, Dougie McBuckets has gone from 4.1 to 4.7. and Oladipo has gone from 4.7 to 5.7.
No idea what happened to all those rebounds in OKC.
Sabonis played away from the basket in OKC. 44.5% of his shots in OKC were from at least 16 feet out. This year, it's at 22%. He's on pace to attempt 36 threes this year after attempting 154 last year. Of course, his defensive rebound % is also up 10% from last year too. He was also a great rebounder in college with a good inside game. OKC was clearly using him wrong.
Yeah, I was attempting a dig at Westbrook, but I suspect Billy Donovan may deserve a big part of that dig.
Either way, the fact that Oladipo, Sabonis, Kanter, and McD are all hugely improved from last season while the Thunder offense craps the bed (#25 in offensive efficiency) looks bad for OKC.
It looks bad for my prognostication skills as well, since I "leaned OKC" in my pre-season thread about the Warriors' #1 competitor. Still early times, but I think I underestimated how well CP3 and Harden would blend and how much of a defensive impact PJ Tucker and LMaM would have, while overestimating Melo's ability to be "Olympic Melo," Westbrook's ability to replicate his career year (with less usage but better efficiency), and Donovan's ability to not suck.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/gs-busters-whos-the-2nd-best-team-in-the-nba.21039/
Pistons have lost 6 straight games... to the Wiz, 76ers, Spurs, Bucks, Warriors, and Celtics. They play Denver Tuesday. That is a brutal stretch of games.
Rockets up 78-76 at half time against the Pelicans at Home. Pelicans are playing without Davis. Good friend E'taun Moore has 22 points at the half and is 6/6 from 3.
I'm actually surprised Skiles record of 30 assists hasn't been challenged in today's up tempo game. Rondo had a few 20+ assists, but outside of him I don't remember anyone recently.
Ramon Sessions of all people had a game a few years back that came close. I want to say he had 26 in a game.
That was almost 9 years ago, but I remember it and it was 24. Rondo had 24 a couple years later.
Sessions had that game in April of 2008 for the Bucks. That October, his new coach was Scott Skiles.
It's only up-tempo relative to the prior period, though. FGM and assists per game are still significantly lower than they were in the mid to late 80s, and even 1990 when Skiles set the record. You had Stockton averaging 14 a game for a five-year period. Nobody now comes near that for a single year.
This NO/Rockets game is ridiculous. Jrue Holiday is 16/21 4/7, Etwuan Moore is 15/20, 6/8. Rondo has a triple double. Cousins is 2 assists shy of one. Capela is 13/14. Eric Gordon broke out of his funk with a 9/12 5/6 game.
NO is 18/33 from 3 atm and are losing by 6 points with less than a minute to go.
LOL at Moore scoring 36 points though. He's having an amazing year.
NO is 18/33 from 3 atm and are losing by 6 points with less than a minute to go.
LOL at Moore scoring 36 points though. He's having an amazing year.
Pace in 90/91 was 97.8. This year, its 97.6. The FGM/FGA is true, as teams averaged 87.2 FG/G in 90/91, as opposed to 85.1 this year. 41.4 made FGs a game to 39. Three point attempts went up from 7.1 a game to 28.7 lol. Teams shot .474/.320/.765 that year, .488 from 2. This season, teams are shooting .459/.363/.765, .507 from 2. Assists are down from 24.7 to 22.5.
2.4 less FGs a game, 2.2 less assists. That's some correlation.
Also LOL at OKC getting blown at home by Charlotte, although the Celtics did just get beat down on the road by the pathetibulls.
It makes me wonder if there is something about the Warriors play in specific that leads to blocks. David West was never much of a shot blocker until arriving in GS. Career 2.1% block rate, in GS it's 5.2. This year, it's 7.2. Kevin Durant has also doubled his block rate since arriving to GS and is 2nd in the NBA to only Myles Turner in BPG. Jordan Bell and McGee you'd expect, so some of it is the personal.
They already have 7 blocks with 19 minutes + to play. West and Durant have 3 each. They are playing without Green and Curry and are up by 20 anyway.
Durant always should have been a great shot blocker when you consider his athleticism, coordination and outstanding length. I think playing in a team with a strong defensive system and having less of an offensive burden has unlocked that part of his game.
Well the current Warriors squad has always had good to great defensive versatility with three to four wings and Curry on the floor at any given time - and when it was three, they had Bogut anchoring the paint.
Durant's arrival only supercharged their mix and match line-up because he can cover just about anyone. But Green, Iguodala and Thompson, as you know, all have the ability to guard one through five so I believe the net effect is that, when their defense is right, they deliberately funnel opposing players into the middle where their "bigs" can collapse and defend at the rim.
The other thing is that a guy like West is now being asked to guard guys smaller than him more frequently than was asked of him in past roles so he has the advantage of size if they take it inside on him.
The last thing is that I was going to say something along the lines of what Kliq said, just less eloquently.
I feel it is as simple as players roles changing without Bogut and Ezeli around as rim protectors. Not only does it force Durant and Green to defend the paint more but not having it also allows the offensive player to underestimate the Warrior rim protection without a traditional rim protector.
In OKC, Durant never had to worry about protecting the rim with Ibaka and Adams on the frontline. Yes, Durant always had this ability and length but it was never necessary for him to be used in this role in OKC. Right now in the Warriors lineup it is.
Similar situation with West, when he played next to Hibbert and Okafor rim protection wasn't a priority for him as they were in the paint for this purpose.
On the Warriors' shotblocking: you guys pretty much nailed it. I'd also call out noted defensive guru Ron Adams, who constantly challenges offensive-minded players like KD and DWest to be the defensive monsters their quick feet and 7'-5" wingspans allow them to be. Plus I guess Bob Myers for his perennial accumulation of long, athletic 6'-7"-6'-10" guys at every position. Iguodala, Livingston, Thompson and Casspi have 49 blocks combined, e.g.
I think David West at age 37 needs a callout of his own. Per 36 minutes this season (in 325 total minutes):
19.7 points on .682 true shooting
9.6 rebounds
4.5 assists
1.8 steals
3.5 blocks
Who gets 4.5 assists and 3.5 blocks per 36? He can no longer play 30+ minutes, and even 20 is pushing it, but on a per minute basis, he's been the Warriors best C by far — indeed one of the better Cs in the NBA. By RPM he currently ranks #5 among NBA power forwards (no idea why he's listed at PF, as he almost exclusively plays C), after Giannis, Draymond, Horford and AD.
The way he's played in SA and Oakland in his golden years makes me wonder how much more effective he could have been in his prime as a playmaking, rim-defending C in modern four-out units, instead of playing traditional PF in so many boring, iso-heavy offenses alongside guys like Tyson Chandler, Okafor, and Hibbert. He's a little short in head-height for a C, but he's got a crazy long wingspan and standing reach, and obviously the strength and toughness for the position (is there anyone in the league you'd take in a fight with David West?)
And that's just the on-court stuff. Off court, the Warriors to a man speak of his leadership qualities in reverential terms, with Kerr in his most recent Bill Simmons interview saying he should be President (an incredibly low bar, but still...)
I think David West at age 37 needs a callout of his own. Per 36 minutes this season (in 325 total minutes):
19.7 points on .682 true shooting
9.6 rebounds
4.5 assists
1.8 steals
3.5 blocks
Who gets 4.5 assists and 3.5 blocks per 36? He can no longer play 30+ minutes, and even 20 is pushing it, but on a per minute basis, he's been the Warriors best C by far — indeed one of the better Cs in the NBA. By RPM he currently ranks #5 among NBA power forwards (no idea why he's listed at PF, as he almost exclusively plays C), after Giannis, Draymond, Horford and AD.
The way he's played in SA and Oakland in his golden years makes me wonder how much more effective he could have been in his prime as a playmaking, rim-defending C in modern four-out units, instead of playing traditional PF in so many boring, iso-heavy offenses alongside guys like Tyson Chandler, Okafor, and Hibbert. He's a little short in head-height for a C, but he's got a crazy long wingspan and standing reach, and obviously the strength and toughness for the position (is there anyone in the league you'd take in a fight with David West?)
And that's just the on-court stuff. Off court, the Warriors to a man speak of his leadership qualities in reverential terms, with Kerr in his most recent Bill Simmons interview saying he should be President (an incredibly low bar, but still...)
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David Robinson did it once and Kareem did it 4 times. They actually did it over 36 minutes though.
edit: Oliver Miller, too but only on a per36.
Last year may have been just as impressive, in that he averaged 6.4 assists and 2.0 blocks per 36. The only guy in NBA history to average > 6 assists and 2 blocks per 36 in over 800 minutes played is ... David West.
Lower the assist threshold to 5 and you get West plus two seasons of Bill Walton (74-75 and 77-78).
Lower the assist threshold to 5 and the block threshold to 1.5 and you get nine guys: West, Walton (x2), Antetokounmpo, Noah, Durant, Draymond (x2), Cousins, Alvan Adams, and Sam Lacey (x5).
Hmm, I may need to study up on this Sam Lacey fellow...
Lower the assist threshold to 5 and you get West plus two seasons of Bill Walton (74-75 and 77-78).
Lower the assist threshold to 5 and the block threshold to 1.5 and you get nine guys: West, Walton (x2), Antetokounmpo, Noah, Durant, Draymond (x2), Cousins, Alvan Adams, and Sam Lacey (x5).
Hmm, I may need to study up on this Sam Lacey fellow...
Kawhi (finally!) back and starting for the Spurs tonight. Just hit his first bucket. Spurs suddenly get much scarier.
Lakers were just down by 4 with about 30 seconds left and let the Knicks run the shot clock down almost to 0 before taking a shot. NY missed, but LA was now down 4 with 7 seconds to go. Ridiculous clock management leads to a loss for the Lakers. Even Mark Jackson didn't get it.
Nets win, Mavs hanging in there and either Suns or Kings have to win. A decent night for The Pick (2-5).
Fixed now.
Guys, take a look at the box score of the SA game right now. The two teams are nearly identical totals across the board in the box score, from fouls to shots to made shots to assists, steals, blocks. I've never seen anything like it this late in a game:
http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975153
http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975153
Screw the pick, I'm all in on Cavs schadenfreude. Nets currently have the 10th worst record in the league. Imagine if Lin hadn't gotten hurt...