2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread

OurF'ingCity

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Meh... the Bucks have a good, young core. If they don't get a pick in that 11-16 range this year or next, odds are it's in the 20's in 2020. Hard to see them collapsing to a bottom-7 team by then and having that convey (and be valuable) in 2021.
Yeah, I think all that protection means is that Phoenix is getting a late first-rounder in 2020 rather than 2018, which to me actually seems worse, not better, than if they just got the Bucks' pick unprotected this year. I guess there is marginal upside in a scenario where Giannis gets hurt for a year or something else weird happens, but don't see that as worth the more likely scenario where they don't get any real return on this deal until 2020.
 

DJnVa

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I thought they gave special dispensation to Woj and Schefter
edit: all i could find was this article referencing Woj and Schefter that basically says this policy has essentially been in place since 2011 and the enforcement won't change
No clue, I was simply say what the poster was referring to.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Bucks close first half 33-18 to take a 67-65 lead in Cleveland, but not before shameless Cavs ballwasher Dave McMenamin jizzes in his pants at how the Cavs' 13 point 2nd quarter lead over the Monroeless (Bledsoeless) Bucks was evidence of their incredible character and how well they respond to adversity.

Newsflash, Ginger: win or lose, the 11th game of the season isn't any more of an adverse situation than any of the ten games that preceded it.

Giannis at the half: 21 pts on 9-12 fg, 3 reb, 2 ast, 3 blocks.
 

Sam Ray Not

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In fairness, a team as elite as the Wizards shouldn’t have to be bothered to defend their home floor against the likes of the Mavericks. Clearly they were too annoyed that they even let the Mavs into the building to bother competing against them.
 

luckiestman

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Just checked a couple box scores and it looks like Love had a monster game. 32 and 16 boards on only 14 shots.
 

Kliq

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Just checked a couple box scores and it looks like Love had a monster game. 32 and 16 boards on only 14 shots.
14/16 from the free throw line and no three point attempts. Will need to see the video but by those stats it looks like he was working out of the post a lot more; as opposed to standing in the corner.

For all the talk about Milwaukee being a contender in the East; there 4-6.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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In fairness, a team as elite as the Wizards shouldn’t have to be bothered to defend their home floor against the likes of the Mavericks. Clearly they were too annoyed that they even let the Mavs into the building to bother competing against them.
Repeat of their attitude/performance when the Suns came calling.
 

Kliq

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Brow and Boogie combined for 69 and 27 and New Orleans improved to 6-5. If Holiday stays healthy I think they make the playoffs.
 

Sprowl

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The Kings look like a truly awful team this year, next year, from time immemorial until the end of days. The Thunder are running them off the court and Steven Adams is laying thunder upon their heads.
 

DJnVa

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Jae Crowder with another quiet night--1 of 5 from floor, 5 points, 1 board, 1 assist
 

DJnVa

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The Kings look like a truly awful team this year, next year, from time immemorial until the end of days. The Thunder are running them off the court and Steven Adams is laying thunder upon their heads.
Kings still haven't scored. The first quarter is almost half over.
 

k-factory

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It’s one thing to blow an 18 pt lead to a good team like the C’s but when the Kings are destroying you in a quarter...there is something seriously wrong with the OKC big talent experiment
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This Memphis @ Portland game is fantastic. Grizzlies up by five with ~22 seconds left, Conley fouls Lillard on an inbounds, Lillard hits the FT, then McCollum hits a triple. Grizzlies up 98-97 with 12.9 seconds left
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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And McCollum falls short on the last possession after Conley loses the ball out of bounds with just under 12 seconds to go. These two teams are fun to watch. Fizdale is a good coach and I shouldn't have slept on him in the Stevens thread.
 

Imbricus

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Donovan Mitchell with a Ball-esque performance from the field last night: 3-21, and 2-11 from three.
 

reggiecleveland

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It’s one thing to blow an 18 pt lead to a good team like the C’s but when the Kings are destroying you in a quarter...there is something seriously wrong with the OKC big talent experiment
Chris Weber and Kevin Mchale were both blunt saying Melo will not help Westbrook since he can't run with him. They wondered how much longer Russ would slow the pace waiting for Melo.

Weber walked it back, probably aware NBA network did not want people to stop watching OKC, but he stopped just short of writing OKC off.

I would say watching OKC makes me temper my Celtic expectations a bit. In retrospect it was not an epic comeback against an elite team. Not even a good team at this pint.
 
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cromulence

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It's hard to describe the level of schadenfreude I feel as a Knicks fan when watching OKC. At this point, Melo really isn't that good. He just isn't. He scores (usually) and......does absolutely nothing else. OK, he's a decent rebounder.

Also, Kanter and McDermott have been really solid so far. I can't believe how much I love that trade.
 

Sam Ray Not

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At this point, Melo really isn't that good.
Dirty little secret: he was never really *that* good. I think most people who look beyond PPG knew the Knicks were basically doomed to mediocrity (or slightly better than that) when they traded for him, and doomed to worse than that when they extended him. Yes, they had the one good 2012-13 season when they were able to surround him with the optimal number of gritty defenders and off-ball specialists to be effective — similar to what the the Sixers did with the similarly overrated Iverson — but no team was ever going anywhere interesting with Melo as their best player.

That said, I'll fess up to predicting that OKC would be really good (second-best team after GSW, I think I said), with their stout overall defense, Russ and PG13 doing it all, and "Olympic Melo" buying into a curtailed role as tertiary offensive option / spot-up shooter. That doesn't look like a great prediction now, but it's a long season. I think they still have a chance to be that team, though I'm starting to have my doubts that Donovan, Westbrook and Melo have the collective hoops IQ necessary to create something resembling a championship-level offense.
 

cromulence

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Yeah, to be honest, I've sort of felt that way too (that he was never THAT good), but I didn't want to come off overly bitter and scorned. I think your model for OKC is the right one, but it requires Melo to swallow his pride to a degree that I'm not sure he's capable of. It's one thing to defer a bit when you're on Team USA - the best compilation of talent possible. He's never shown that ability in the NBA, though.
 

LondonSox

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The JAzz offensively are ....not good.
Sixers had them under control without Embiid on the road the whole game, largely because no one can shoot. They had Ingles initiating for goodness sake for large parts of the game
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Dirty little secret: he was never really *that* good. I think most people who look beyond PPG knew the Knicks were basically doomed to mediocrity (or slightly better than that) when they traded for him, and doomed to worse than that when they extended him. Yes, they had the one good 2012-13 season when they were able to surround him with the optimal number of gritty defenders and off-ball specialists to be effective — similar to what the the Sixers did with the similarly overrated Iverson — but no team was ever going anywhere interesting with Melo as their best player.
Never say never again. Never is a long time. 'Melo has had some good seasons, good enough to be considered a top 10 player in the NBA. He was 7th in PER in 2013-14 and 4th in 2012-13.

But the problem is - as you touched upon - is that it was never clear what type of team should be built around him. He wasn't so good that a team could put all shooters and defenders around him but he was too ball-dominant to pair him with other stars.

I'm sure Donovan has the BB IQ to get the best out of Melo but I doubt he has the buy-in. That's the big part.
 

Kliq

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I haven’t seen a ton but Melo hasn’t looked to change the way he has played at all to fit OKC. He isn’t just this ace catch and shoot guy; he is still a ball stopper that isn’t helping move the ball. Another issue is they are all averaging 17 fga, but Anthony, Westbrook and George are not all equal offensive players. They shouldn’t be attempting the same amount of shots per game.
 

Tony C

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Dirty little secret: he was never really *that* good. I think most people who look beyond PPG knew the Knicks were basically doomed to mediocrity (or slightly better than that) when they traded for him, and doomed to worse than that when they extended him. Yes, they had the one good 2012-13 season when they were able to surround him with the optimal number of gritty defenders and off-ball specialists to be effective — similar to what the the Sixers did with the similarly overrated Iverson — but no team was ever going anywhere interesting with Melo as their best player.

That said, I'll fess up to predicting that OKC would be really good (second-best team after GSW, I think I said), with their stout overall defense, Russ and PG13 doing it all, and "Olympic Melo" buying into a curtailed role as tertiary offensive option / spot-up shooter. That doesn't look like a great prediction now, but it's a long season. I think they still have a chance to be that team, though I'm starting to have my doubts that Donovan, Westbrook and Melo have the collective hoops IQ necessary to create something resembling a championship-level offense.
Fully agree. Can I suggest something tentatively -- that maybe for all the abuse he took Jackson was dealt a bad hand and didn't do so badly with it? His drafts seem to have not just good but possibly great if the flashes Nkitilana are showing are real. It's hard to know the inner machinations given a Dolan ownership (god only knows), but at least by the end clearly Jackson also quite wisely wanted Melo out despite the NY media being in Anthony's pocket, even if he didn't deal with that well and even if he seemed to want to Melo to stay when he first signed on.

I dunno...just a thought. But in terms of the basics I'm not really sure what else Jackson could do.
 

bowiac

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Fully agree. Can I suggest something tentatively -- that maybe for all the abuse he took Jackson was dealt a bad hand and didn't do so badly with it? His drafts seem to have not just good but possibly great if the flashes Nkitilana are showing are real. It's hard to know the inner machinations given a Dolan ownership (god only knows), but at least by the end clearly Jackson also quite wisely wanted Melo out despite the NY media being in Anthony's pocket, even if he didn't deal with that well and even if he seemed to want to Melo to stay when he first signed on.

I dunno...just a thought. But in terms of the basics I'm not really sure what else Jackson could do.
I'm sympathetic to the drafting point, but there's also just some confusion by Jackson with moves like bringing in guys like Rose, Noah, Calderon and Afflalo. Plus, for as much credit as Jackson deserves for drafting Porzingis in the first place, he has to give some of it back due to 1) all the reports that he badly wanted Okafor; 2) his later flirtations with trading Porzingis. Jackson looks very much like a guy who accidentally struck gold there, rather than prescient vision.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Drummond is 0-7 from the FT line tonight. Pistons still up 19. Pacers are without Sabonis. Knicks are competing with the Magic on the road, behind 8 after 3. They are playing without Kristaps.

The East is weird, man.
 
Aug 24, 2017
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Drummond is 0-7 from the FT line tonight. Pistons still up 19. Pacers are without Sabonis. Knicks are competing with the Magic on the road, behind 8 after 3. They are playing without Kristaps.

The East is weird, man.
Is it possible the East' lack of stars and super teams relative to the West makes for better depth on some of the teams?
 
Aug 24, 2017
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Yeah, there are a lot of teams with really deep rotations and I think the 3 pointer is a great equalizer.
In Charlotte I just noticed that they have 1 very good player and then 8 completely interchangeable but good players that can sometimes have big nights. So through the course of a season they will win some weird games. I assumed that teams like the Pistons are somewhat similar.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Magic win and go 13-28 from 3. Gordon was 4-6 and Vuc and Fournier were 3-6. Payton returned to the lineup and had 11 points, 11 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals and 2 blocks on 5-9 shooting. Gordon is easily getting the max this offseason.

Pistons win easily over the pacers to improve to 8-3! Seems flukish as they are doing nothing well, but that also suggests they are probably a .500 team getting lucky in the early going. Orlando's success can easily be contributed to their 3 point shooting.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Also looks like the Knicks hit again on a foreign player as Ntilikina looks really good for a 19 year old. He's going to be a defensive terror and his play making skils look advanced.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Wolves @ Warriors should be a really good game. I'm rooting for Kevin Durant to lead the league in blocks because that would just be weird and amazing.
 

benhogan

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The Warriors have awoken. All those huge margin wins were against playoff calibre teams. Have to think they have become an even bigger favourite with this start. Have the Vegas odds tightened since the pre-season?

The East looks even easier for the West to bully: the Cavs are a hot mess that can't defend and clearly miss Kyrie, the Wizards uninspired/listless play to start the season, and the Celtics ex-Gordon.
 

BigSoxFan

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The Warriors have awoken. All those huge margin wins were against playoff calibre teams. Have to think they have become an even bigger favourite with this start. Have the Vegas odds tightened since the pre-season?

The East looks even easier for the West to bully: the Cavs are a hot mess that can't defend and clearly miss Kyrie, the Wizards uninspired/listless play to start the season, and the Celtics ex-Gordon.
Don’t think anyone will be giving the Dubs much resistance. Maybe Houston if Paul comes back healthy. Kawhi seems to be having real issues with his quad that you have to wonder if it’ll linger all year.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Thibs being Thibs: keeps his starters on the floor for the last 6-7 minutes v. the Ws bench mob with his team down 20-25.

Not exactly a news flash that the Warriors are good, real good. If there's been a mild surprise through preseason and 12 games it's that Omri Casspi is a stud who was born to play Kerr-ball (flying around the court, hitting threes, making smart passes, slashing to the rim, switching and blocking shots like KD). But even that was pretty predictable if you watched him when he was healthy. It's pretty crazy that a 6'-9" 29 y.o. vet with his high hoops IQ and diverse, 21st century skillset couldn't find at least a full MLE contract somewhere.

McCaw, Bell and even Looney (still only 21) have all looked great, too, for anyone counting the days till the decline. Kerr's ability to keep playing and developing the young'uns while staying at the top of the heap seems in pretty sharp contrast to say, Doc's Clips or Blatt/Lue's Cavs. Of course, who knows how many of these guys they'll be able to keep around past their rookie deals, especially if they keep improving. They already declined the final option year of Looney's rookie deal in the interests of financial flexibility, despite being ecstatic with his play. And McCaw and Bell — potentially key pieces going forward as Andre, Shaun, and DWest age or retire — could both be tricky to extend, as second-rounders on short two-year deals.

Even if decline does not seem imminent (knock wood), when you consider the ages of Shaun, Andre, Steph and KD, plus all the cheap young talent that won't be cheap forever, plus impending extensions for Klay and Draymond, I think it's reasonable to surmise that this season's roster may be the absolute peak — for the Warriors and possibly any other franchise ever.
 
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Sam Ray Not

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One semi-surprising note from last night's game: Curry being cross-matched defensively on Jimmy Butler for long stretches and pretty consistently stoning him. Could just be an off-night for Butler, but Curry does look physically stronger and tougher defensively than ever. +32.4 net on-off per 100 possessions through 12 games, +10.1 of which is defense.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Never say never again. Never is a long time. 'Melo has had some good seasons, good enough to be considered a top 10 player in the NBA. He was 7th in PER in 2013-14 and 4th in 2012-13.
I'll stand by "never" on the premise of a team ever winning it all with Melo as their best player. If I squint I can see championship upside in an OKC team with improved offensive cohesion and consistent lockdown D from PG13, Adams, Roberson, 2Pat and Jerami Grant (and possibly even Russ?). But on that team Melo is probably the 4th or 5th best player.

Also, 2012-14 was 4-5 years ago, and PER is bunk. :)
 

HomeRunBaker

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Drummond is 0-7 from the FT line tonight. Pistons still up 19. Pacers are without Sabonis. Knicks are competing with the Magic on the road, behind 8 after 3. They are playing without Kristaps.

The East is weird, man.
You can't simply look at one nights results without recognizing the factor of scheduling in these games. The Pacers played in New York on Sunday night, arrived back home early Mon morning, played a home game Tuesday night, arrived at hotel in Detroit early Wed morning and played their 3rd game in 4 nights in 3 different cities vs the Pistons. This could help explain the Pistons 71-47 run during the middle portion of the game.

As much as Silver did to help the brutal scheduling to some degree there are still many difficult travel games for a lot of these teams.