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2017-18 injury thread - people are skating but who knows when they'll play

Discussion in 'Rick Middleton's Pron 'Stache: Bruins Forum' started by The Napkin, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    I figured, which is why I mentioned other dominant skill sets.

    I mean, I’ve always thought Krecji was a bit overrated, but it’s the contract (not his fault, I know) and his penchance for disappearing that drives me nuts. Great point above about playing for Juilen likely limiting his numbers- that’s pretty fair.

    Bruins sure could use him right now though.
     
  2. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The argument that says "Krejci peaked at 22" also says "Bergeron peaked at 20". I'll leave it to others to decide whether it is a good argument or not.

    More importantly, Krejci has pretty much been the Bruins' #2 center for most of his time here. In some of his earliest years Savard was here and Bergeron was either hurt or in more of a checking role, but for most of his NHL career he's been the Bruins' second-best center. Whatever people have called him that's what he's been.

    And he's generally been an asset in that role, at least until recent years when he's been derailed by injuries.

    The question is, was he good enough and expected to be healthy enough to justify the big financial commitment made to him by Chiarelli? With the benefit of hindsight, obviously not. Without hindsight, I'd still argue that it would have been better to move on.

    Krejci's a good player, but that deal is not serving the Bruins.
     
  3. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    We agree overall so I wont belabor the point, but it’s pretty clear Bergeron did not peak at 20, while I think you have a much harder time saying Krejci didn’t peak at 22. Obviously your suggestion is that I’m going only on points, but since age 22 (when he lead the league in +/-, was an all star, and was top 6 in Selke voting) DK has 1 all star appearance and finished 45th and 12th in the Selke voting. Since age 20 Patrice Bergeron has become one of the ten or so best players in the world.
     
  4. Steve Dillard

    Steve Dillard wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour SoSH Member

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    Just imagine how they could handle the injuries if they could call up Mat Barzal (NYI #2 center) or Kyle Conner (Winnipeg #2 center) rather than Senyshyn and Zobril.

    http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?...ike-its-the-bastille.9969/page-4#post-1269071

     
  5. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    I’m going to wait more than 12 games to anoint those guys as superior. Connor struggled mightily last year and Barzal has 15 games to his name.
     
  6. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    And I’m glad they didn’t trade Z.
     
  7. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Ah the annual Connor/Barzal fly by. Good times.
     
  8. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

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    I'm just impressed he's gotten new material and moved on from "Stuart over Parise!". Which of course is the follow up to "Kluzak over Bellows!".

    Always fun and informative contributions.
     
  9. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Mrs. Dennis Wideman SoSH Member

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    I don't even know those names (Connor/Barzal).
     
  10. Steve Dillard

    Steve Dillard wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour SoSH Member

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    Seriously, just dismissing the concept as a "fly by?" Seems like the 3-pick was a core of the rebuild, and two years out seems like a decent spot to check on the decision that was (as seen by the contemporaneous posts) pretty off-the-boad by both those in the industry and us Bs fans.
    They're talking about it over at HFboards http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/bruins-prospects-discussion-iv.2367743/page-20, so I thought it was an ok subject to raise.
    Dropping to the minors to plug holes with career minor leaguers Swarz, Agostino and Czarnik for depth seems like it might be relevant to evaluating the picks. But if not, I'm sorry to have interrupted the Krejc talk. Proceed.
     
    #60 Steve Dillard, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  11. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    Do you have an opinion on them? Because saying they’re second line centers for two average teams and isn’t that swell isn’t giving us much context for actual discussion.
     
  12. Steve Dillard

    Steve Dillard wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour SoSH Member

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    Sure. Barzal is a talented offensive center. Was a consensus top 5 pick going into the draft. Hurt his kneecap his draft year, and doubts about his perimiter style got him to drop out of the top 10. Most of us fans, as evidenced by the posts I quoted, felt that his season was an outlier, and that he should be the first pick when he fell to 12, 13 and 14. Indeed, when Boston passed on him, the Islanders quickly traded up to get him. His next year was better, with 88 points and more goals, showing some finish. Last year he started with the Isles, but Capuano didn't play him much, so he was returned to the W. He slumped, only had 10 goals. But now he made the Isles, and Weight has put him on the top two lines, where his skills are better utilized. He just had a 3 point game, points in four straight games, and really seems to be living up to the promise he always had. A flavor of some of the discussion.
    http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...erbirds-whl-2015-16th-nyi-iii.2147557/page-15


    Connor is a speed kid. As with Barzal, when Boston passed, Winnipeg snapped him up after Barzal. Great freshman year at Michigan after the draft. Signed with Winnipeg but struggled and was sent to minors. He rebounded at the end of last year, and scored well for the Jets. This year he was surprisingly sent to the minors in first week, but has now been called up and as with Barzal, when put into an offensive position, has done the job with 5 points in 8 games.
    Here's the discussion on Connor. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/lw-kyle-connor-2015-17th-wpg-ii.2049493/page-40
    In isolation those two are not the end-all 10-year NHL picks, though they are far superior to Spooner, and may well even make an all star team. But the fact that Boston's picks are been so lackluster -- Senyshyn has one goal in 10 minor league games, and his junior career was respectable, but not really "top 15 pick" sort of record. Always a "project" pick (he was ranked a mid-second rounder by the NHL), is seems it will be a while before he can impact the AHL, let alone be considered for a call-up. Zborli the other pick has been brutally bad/inconsistent.
    DeBrusk has surprised me, and even though he too was a reach (in the late 20s by Central Scouting), he was a year older, and therefore already has an AHL season under his belt. For now, he seems likely to be the only real impact NHLer from thoser 13, 14 and 15 picks. Considering that they traded Hamilton and Looch for those picks, to springboard the rebuild, the return, to me, does not reflect well on Sweeney.

    I thought there was contrast, seeing as two and a half years later the injuries have opened several opportunities, and these kids were not the call-ups, while Connor and Barzal are just earning their wings.

    Lastly, I am not typically someone to criticize drafts where the picks are close. But the 13-15 presented two clear cut superior picks. That is why it is frustrating.
     
    #62 Steve Dillard, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  13. burstnbloom

    burstnbloom Member SoSH Member

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    Not to mention how disingenuous it is to say that when the bruins are starting 4 rookies minimum every night. It's not like their organization has been unable to provide them with support. Your note on the Hamilton and Lucic trade is also kind of disingenuous because it ignores that Hamilton was essentially traded for Senyshyn, JFK and Jeremy Lauzon, and the later 2 look like potential NHL mainstays and the Lucic trade yielded Zboril, who was the no brainer pick at 13, Frederic, one of the best prospects in NCAA hockey and Sean Kuraly, a 4th line regular.

    The first round picks could have yielded more, but everyone in the world was advocating for Zboril at 13 and while Senyshyn looks like a project, I think its hard to say the execution of those picks was poor when the second 2 look pretty damn good.
     
  14. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yes. It's still just way too early. Barzal and Conner are still in the "adjust to the NHL" stage of their careers (as is DeBrusk), Senyshyn is a high-risk high-reward project who needs to adjust to the pro game, and defensemen often tend to develop more slowly. Yeah, the other guys might be better but neither is really in a position to help the team right now and the Bruins as an organization are incredibly well positioned vis a vis young talent.
     
  15. veritas

    veritas Member SoSH Member

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    #1 center can kind of be an ambiguous term. He's been a top 30 center most of his career, so in that regard, yeah. But if he's your best center, you are not a good team. Most successful teams have more than one "first line level" center. And the ones that don't have an abundance of top players at W/D (see Nashville)

    His contract is too much for what he does, but when healthy he's still a valuable middle 6 center. I'm not sure how much longer that'll be the case though. At some point during this contract, him retiring or going on LTIR is going to be something that helps the team a lot.
     
  16. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

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    This thread is a zoo.

    My fault.
     
  17. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Back to Krejci’s injury....he’s been ruled out for another week.

    Elsewhere on the injury front, Marchand is out tonight with a UBI. Spooner skated today and Acciari practiced (no contact).
     
  18. burstnbloom

    burstnbloom Member SoSH Member

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    Wow, this is getting a little ridiculous, now.
     
  19. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Marchand and Bjork are not traveling with the team to Anaheim today. They aren’t ruled out, and could join the team prior to Wednesday’s game but I’m not sure how likely that is. I’m guessing Bjork is in the concussion protocol after the Martin hit. Not sure what’s up with Marchand- McDonald reported he was in the protocol when he missed games last week. Symptoms return?

    Krejci is traveling and hopes to play at some point on the road trip.
     
  20. Haunted

    Haunted The Man in the Box SoSH Member

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    I swear I heard that Krejci was planning on playing tonight, but radio so no link and I may have misheard.
     
  21. TheRealness

    TheRealness Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash SoSH Member

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    TSH's updates say Krejci was cleared for full-practice, but it's unclear whether he will play tomorrow. They do not play tonight.

    Looks like Marchand and Bjork are out for the entire west coast trip from what I heard earlier.
     
  22. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Agostino and Cehlarik are up on emergency recall.

    As far as I know Marchand and Bjork weren’t ruled out for the entire trip, but they also didn’t travel so it would seem unlikely that they play at all in California.

    Krejci did travel, but he was non-commital about the timing of his return other than saying that he hoped to play during the trip. Could be any of the 3 games.
     
  23. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Bjork and Marchand officially out tomorrow and Thursday. Not much they can do right now, but they won’t survive if they don’t start getting bodies back soon.

     
  24. Murby

    Murby lurker

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    November 16, 2017 @ 357pm EST - "Brad Marchand has been put on injured reserve"

    Well, crud.
     
  25. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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  26. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    It’s not good, but it doesn’t change a whole lot. IR means the player must miss 7 days from the date of the injury. Marchand (and Bjork for that matter) got hurt last Saturday and aren’t with the team in California so it seems they were likely missing the entire road trip anyways. The team needs a roster spot available to activate Krejci, so to IR they go. Bjork went on IR Monday to activate Cehlarik.

    Marchand and Bjork are both eligible to return to the lineup next Wednesday if they are medically cleared.
     
  27. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Posted in the game threa...but wheeeee!!!

     
  28. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

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    Any good players available at #2 in this coming years draft? :eek:
     
  29. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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  30. Salem's Lot

    Salem's Lot Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog! SoSH Member

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    Yes. Top 3-4 is pretty good.
     
  31. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    OT, but speaking of the top of the draft, saw this come across the old twitter machine....

    Here’s Rasmus Dahlin who is supposed to go #1 in the June draft. He is 17 years old playing in the Swedish Elite League. Defenseman. Been hyped for over a year now. Made Sweden’s WJC team last year as a 16 year old.

     
  32. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

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    I posted that thinking at the time that Arizona was so bad they may not even win another game this season, and then they went and beat the Habs. Shows what I know about this hockey thing.
     
  33. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

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    Looks like Backes is skating today and Marchand and Spooner are expected to practice tomorrow. Help is on the way.
     
  34. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Mrs. Dennis Wideman SoSH Member

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    If by help you mean Marchand, then I agree, but I'm not expecting much from Backes and I'm not sure they've missed Spooner all that much.
     
  35. Trotski

    Trotski Member SoSH Member

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    Spooner as "help" may be a little overrated.
     
  36. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    It’s fun to hate on Spooner, and I’m guilty of it myself, but they’re running guys like Jordan Szwarz and Paul Postma out on the power play. At the very least, Spooner’s a pretty big PP boost.
     
  37. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

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    cshea is exactly right. Their PP2 is TRASH and any help for that is going to be very welcome.

    Backes is also an upgrade over anyone in their bottom 6, and then having everyone come back just has a trickle down effect that helps. As much as I hate on Krejci it’s clear his impact in stabilizing the rest of the lineup (in addition to what he actually produces).
     
  38. TheRealness

    TheRealness Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash SoSH Member

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    As TFP notes, Backes is better than anything they have in their bottom 6, and is a much better overall player than some playing in the top 6 right now. He also provides a stabilizing force, and provides a physicality that they seem to be lacking. Backes will definitely help this team, and he also has big hairy balls, which is good when the team is struggling.

    As much as I hate Spooner, I do admit he would really help their 2nd PP. I wouldn't want him playing anywhere else, but hey, he could help them there.
     
  39. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    It's unlikely that Backes will ever be worth his contract. However, a healthy Backes improves the team's forward depth significantly. He's exactly the guy you want when nursing a 2-1 lead late in the 3rd period in a hostile rink when each and every 2 points needs to treasured like gold. And it's guaranteed that at least one of their forwards will miss time in the future due to injury.
     
  40. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Mrs. Dennis Wideman SoSH Member

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    I'm not saying he won't make an impact at some point, but I'm skeptical that he'll be of much use for a while. He wasn't exactly playing great before he went out and now he's trying to come back from nasty surgery as a 33 year old. I'd imagine he's lost strength and weight with the diverticulitis.

    We'll see, I hope I'm wrong. If the expectation is that he'll help the bottom six then that's sort of proving my point. They need him to be a top 6 player.
     
  41. Salem's Lot

    Salem's Lot Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog! SoSH Member

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    David Backes is exactly the type of vocal, veteran presence that this team needs with so many young forwards. If kids like DeBrusk and Bjork ever become great players, they'll be talking about Backes like Marchand talks about Mark Recchi. Realness is absolutely right, his numbers will never be worth the contract but they need a guy with big balls in the forward group to help develop the kids, and Backes is that kind of guy.
     
  42. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

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    I agree about being cautious about him coming off surgery, that’s fair. Will likely take a while for him to get back into game shape.

    But I don’t agree he needs to be a top 6 player on this team. It’s a great boost if he is of course, but it seems like a top 6 combination of

    Marchand - Bergeron - Heinen/Bjork
    Bjork/DeBrusk - Krejci - Pastrnak

    is what they’re gonna roll with long term. Backes should slot very nicely into the 3rd line, increasing their depth significantly. And he’ll never be worth his contract, I’ve given up on that.

    Regardless, my original post was more intending to say that’s it really nice to hear about more players starting to return rather than just the exodus of people to injury.
     
  43. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Mrs. Dennis Wideman SoSH Member

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    I just don't agree that top 6 is good enough... yet.

    They really need a guy like Backes to step into that Krejci line and let the kids fight for playing time on the first/third line. To me, that would provide more stability than him centering the third line (which I don't think is a terrible alternative, for the record), assuming he plays like he should.

    Probably splitting hairs, but I don't think this team has much wiggle room, unfortunately.
     
  44. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Grzelyck up. Krug did skate today but this would seem to indicate he won’t play in the next game or two.

     
  45. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

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    Marchand and Krug ruled out for tomorrow. Bjork ruled out for the week. Spooner is a possibility to play tomorrow.
     
  46. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

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  47. veritas

    veritas Member SoSH Member

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    If their forwards ever get healthy, they're going to have quite a few tough decisions to make. They have 14 F I think deserve to be playing and I'm not even counting Beleskey. My best guess at an ideal lineup is something like

    Marchand-Bergeron-Bjork
    Debrusk-Krejci-Pastrnak
    Spooner-Nash-Backes
    Schaller-Kuraly-Heinen

    But lines 2 and especially 3 there really don't make any sense. I'm really high on Cehlarik, and Vatrano has played really well the last few weeks, but who sits? Debrusk seems to have earned a spot, Backes is going to play when he's healthy, the PP needs Spooner even though he's plain bad as a 5x5 center. Schaller-Kuraly-Heinen have played really well together and ideally would be a great 4th line to be able to give a lot of minutes to if they could figure out the middle 6.

    I'd love to see them go after a LHD for the 2nd pair using some of their excess forward depth and a pick/prospect (if they ever get healthy, of course).

    Edit: There's also Noel Acciari who would need to clear waivers to be sent to Providence. The team seems to value him more than I do given that he's signed through next season, so he needs to be factored in too.
     
    #97 veritas, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:05 PM
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017 at 12:21 PM

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