2016 NBA Draft

HomeRunBaker

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I'm really hoping Bentil lasts to the 2nd round and becomes our Gomes 2.0.
My fear is that Bentil's defense makes Enes Kanter look like Kawhi Leonard on that end of the floor. Bentil stays in school he's a pre-season 1st team All-American and with a similar (or better) season he's a low lottery guy. Now he's fighting for late 1st money or hoping his agent can get him a couple guaranteed years that would cost him a couple years of team options to acquire.

I don't like the move if Providence could have paid his insurance as they did Dunn but he isn't as highly regarded as a prospect as Dunn was last year so not sure if they could have even acquired the policy. I'll see if I can find out if they looked into it as this would be an interesting twist. Without insurance it's tough to walk away from a million dollar contact to walk down Admiral Street in 24 degree snowstorm to get a late night breakfast at Your Momma's so I can't really say I blame him.
 

nighthob

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I mean he's obviously going to spend next year in the D learning to play D, but he also has a lot of upside.
 

amfox1

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Updated for 5/25 deadline decisions (NBA combine invitees only):

Registered for the NBA draft (57):


Ron Baker, SG, Wichita State
Wade Baldwin, PG, Vanderbilt
Anthony "Cat" Barber, PG, North Carolina State
Malik Beasley, SG, Florida State
DeAndre Bembry, SF, Saint Joseph's
Ben Bentil, PF, Providence
Joel Bolomboy, PF, Weber State
Malcolm Brogdon, Maryland
Jaylen Brown, SF, California
Robert Carter Jr., PF, Maryland
Marquese Chriss, PF, Washington
Elgin Cook, SF, Oregon
Isaiah Cousins, SF, Oklahoma
Deyonta Davis, PF/C, Michigan State
Cheick Diallo, PF/C, Kansas
Kris Dunn, PG, Providence
Henry Ellenson, PF, Marquette
Perry Ellis, SF, Kansas
A.J. English, SG, Iona
Kay Felder, PG, Oakland
Dorian Finney-Smith, SF, Florida
Michael Gbinije, SG, Syracuse
Daniel Hamilton, SG/SF, Connecticut
A.J. Hammonds, C, Purdue
Buddy Hield, SG, Oklahoma
Brandon Ingram, SF, Duke
Demetrius Jackson, PG, Notre Dame
Bryce Johnson, PF, North Carolina
Damian Jones, C, Vanderbilt
Skal Labissière, PF/C, Kentucky
Jake Layman, SF, Maryland
Caris LeVert, SG, Michigan
Thon Maker, PF/C, Int'l
Pat McCaw, SG, UNLV
Isaiah Miles, SF, Saint Joseph's
Dejounte Murray, PG/SG, Washington
Jamal Murray, PG/SG, Kentucky
Georges Niang, SF, Iowa State
Chinanu Onuaku, C, Louisville
Marcus Paige, PG, North Carolina
Gary Payton II, PG, Oregon State
Jakob Poeltl, C, Utah
Taurean Prince, SF, Baylor
Malachi Richardson, SG, Syracuse
Domantas Sabonis, PF, Gonzaga
Wayne Selden, SG, Kansas
Pascal Siakam, F, New Mexico State
Ben Simmons, F, LSU
Diamond Stone, C, Maryland
Tyler Ulis, PG, Kentucky
Jarrod Uthoff, SF, Iowa
Denzel Valentine, SG, Michigan State
Isaiah Whitehead, SG, Seton Hall
Troy Williams, PF, Indiana
Kyle Wiltjer, PF, Gonzaga
Zhou Qi, C, Int'l
Stephen Zimmerman, PF/C, UNLV

Back to school: Jaron Blossomgame, Josh Hart, Nigel Hayes, Justin Jackson, Dedrick Lawson, Marcus Lee (will transfer), Malik Newman (may transfer), Caleb Swanigan, Melo Trimble
 
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amfox1

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Swanigan, too. Updating the prior list.

Waiting on Onuaku and Trimble.

EDIT: Onuaku going pro, Trimble going back to College Park.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Let the rumors begin! I have a sneaky feeling this is going to be a very interesting draft night.

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
Pretty crazy the number of draft prospects that have fairly significant medical concerns according to team sources.
Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
Several named guys - 3 projected first rounders and 4 projected 2nd rounders could be in for a tough draft night.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hearing that Denzel Valentine's knee was one of the red flags. Good knees or bad I wouldn't touch him in the Top-40 anyway.
 

Cellar-Door

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Obviously depends on the knees, but I think he should be in the discussion at 23, and definitely at the two picks in the 30s, he strikes me as Evan Turner with a jumper.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Obviously depends on the knees, but I think he should be in the discussion at 23, and definitely at the two picks in the 30s, he strikes me as Evan Turner with a jumper.
He can't defend his position at this level I feel so certain about this. He doesn't have the foot speed or athleticism. Denzel's one skill is as a spot-up shooter but he will be such a liability on the other end I don't see how he can get minutes.
 

Drocca

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His defense is Kendall Marshall-esque. I liked watching him play college basketball, but I don't think he's an NBA player and, if he is, a marginal one.
 

HomeRunBaker

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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-bulls-wont-trade-jimmy-butler-to-wolves-unless-they-get-andrew-wiggins/?linkId=25533205

I mean, they probably can ask. But if the Bulls really won't trade Butler without getting #5 and Wiggins, I do think the Celtics have a shot at him.
Who would our Wiggins be from our end? We don't have a single player on our roster with Wiggins trade value. If the Bulls don't do that deal then they aren't serious about moving Butler......which I don't believe they have any interest in moving anyway.
 

DJnVa

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Who would our Wiggins be from our end? We don't have a single player on our roster with Wiggins trade value. If the Bulls don't do that deal then they aren't serious about moving Butler......which I don't believe they have any interest in moving anyway.
Yeah, I think you have it backwards. The Bulls want to do that deal with Wiggins in it, Minny doesn't.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, I think you have it backwards. The Bulls want to do that deal with Wiggins in it, Minny doesn't.
That is what I thought but is that what the poster was implying? He clearly says if the Bulls won't do the deal unless it was an editing error.

"But if the Bulls really won't trade Butler without getting #5 and Wiggins"
 

the moops

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The thinking is that if the Wolves say no to Wiggins and #5, then Boston can beat whatever that next best offer is. So while the Bulls wouldn't do a deal without Wiggins, perhaps it just. ea s they are not enamored with Lavine, and it doesn't necessarily mean that they would require a comparable Wiggins from the Celtics.
 

snowmanny

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Isn't the next best offer Wiggins and no draft pick? Can Boston beat that without next year's Brooklyn pick?
 

cheech13

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It's been speculated that the Bulls would ask for IT and Bradley or Crowder in addition to the number 3 pick to part with Butler. I don't think I do that if I'm Boston.
 

finnVT

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You mean 2018. 2017 is a swap right and cannot be traded.
Really? Is this a specific rule? It would seem like they could trade their pick along with the swap rights without any logistical difficulty, unless it's expressly not allowed.
 

BigSoxFan

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It's been speculated that the Bulls would ask for IT and Bradley or Crowder in addition to the number 3 pick to part with Butler. I don't think I do that if I'm Boston.
I only do that if it brings Durant, which it won't.
 

zenter

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Really? Is this a specific rule? It would seem like they could trade their pick along with the swap rights without any logistical difficulty, unless it's expressly not allowed.
Really. The basic principle is you can only trade things you possess. As far as I can tell, swap rights aren't - for the purposes of the CBA - possessions, but rather options to force an action involving owned items. They are untradeable.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87

  • Teams cannot trade future picks not already in their possession. For example, a team cannot make a trade in 2013 that conveys the lesser of any 2016 first round pick in its possession on the date of the 2016 draft, and subsequently acquire a pick to send.
  • Teams cannot subsequently acquire picks to change the "first allowable draft" per the Stepien rule. For example, suppose a team trades away two picks, with the first being a conditional pick and the second in the first allowable draft after the first pick is conveyed. If the first pick is conveyed in 2014, then the first allowable draft in which the second pick can be conveyed is 2016. If the team subsequently acquires a 2015 pick from another team (so it has two picks that year), the first allowable draft for the conveyance of the second pick remains 2016.
 

EL Jeffe

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Jimmy Butler's knees would keep me from forking over a haul of assets for him. Butler has played 67, 65 and 67 games the last three seasons and made the dreaded Dr. James Andrews 2nd Opinion Visit last season. Apparently the knee checked out okay but I don't have a ton of confidence in his durability moving forward. My guess is Chicago doesn't either.
 

finnVT

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Hrm, I don't see how those two rules would apply. In this case, Boston would be trading two things it possesses, their 1st round pick and the swap rights. Neither of those things change anything regarding first allowable draft. Per the link, that 2nd rule quoted (the Stepien rule) is specifically to imply that "when dealing with protected picks, the Stepien rule is interpreted to mean that teams can't trade a pick if there is any chance it will leave the team without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts". The swap doesn't affect that in any way, so it doesn't seem relevant. But I don't see anything on that page that would specifically address this situation.

edit: in fact, isn't this what happened when they got james young?
 

zenter

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Hrm, I don't see how those two rules would apply. In this case, Boston would be trading two things it possesses, their 1st round pick and the swap rights. Neither of those things change anything regarding first allowable draft. Per the link, that 2nd rule quoted (the Stepien rule) is specifically to imply that "when dealing with protected picks, the Stepien rule is interpreted to mean that teams can't trade a pick if there is any chance it will leave the team without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts". The swap doesn't affect that in any way, so it doesn't seem relevant. But I don't see anything on that page that would specifically address this situation.

edit: in fact, isn't this what happened when they got james young?
People smarter than me on the CBA (Coon, Lowe, etc) have said elsewhere swap rights are not tradeable for more or less this reason. If they're wrong, then so be it. :)

As for James Young, no. The 2014, 2016, and 2018 picks were fully-conferred to the Cs. No strings. These were/are all tradeable.

The Stepien rule applied to the 2017 pick. Swap rights allowed the Cs to extract a 4 picks in 5 years from BKN. But the 2017 pick is not conferred to the Cs, and the Cs right to swap locks the Cs pick to the Cs. They can't trade the swap rights, and the rights are related to their own pick.

Here's a fun wrinkle - as I understand it, once the 2016-17 calendar begins, BKN are allowed to (technically) trade the 2017 pick to another team, so when Cs exercise their swap, it's exercised against another team. More realistically, once the Cs exercise the swap, they can trade the pick if they want. This would happen after the end of the regular season but before the lottery.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Thought it might be fun to throw a big board together (overall rather than Celtics-specific) based on everything I've seen and read up on so far. There are too many guys that I don't really have a good read on for this to feel at all comprehensive, but this is where I'm at right now:

1 simmons
2 ingram
3 dunn
4 bender
5 brown
6 luwawu
7 d.davis
8 korkmaz
9 baldwin
10 j. murray
11 poeltl
12 ellenson
13 chriss
14 mccaw
15 onuaku
16 hield
17 zizic
18 zubac
19 skal
20 prince
21 sabonis
22 levert
23 valentine
24 cordnier
25 b. johnson
26 cornelie
27 d.murray
28 d.jones
29 stone
30 payton
31 zagorac
32 hernangomez
33 zimmerman
34 maker
35 felder
36 Qi
37 bembry
38 Siakam
39 d.jackson
40 j. adams
41 Diallo
42 beasley
43 Yabusele
44 Brogdon
45 Bentil
46 Papagiannis
47 Cousins
48 Richardson
49 Bolomby
50 VanVleet
 

finnVT

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As for James Young, no. The 2014, 2016, and 2018 picks were fully-conferred to the Cs. No strings. These were/are all tradeable.
I think Atlanta had swap rights on the pick, but I guess that's slightly different. It would be like Bkln trading their 2017 pick, not Boston, so the swap rights didn't have to move. Anyway, I'll drop it, just seemed odd.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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People smarter than me on the CBA (Coon, Lowe, etc) have said elsewhere swap rights are not tradeable for more or less this reason. If they're wrong, then so be it. :)

As for James Young, no. The 2014, 2016, and 2018 picks were fully-conferred to the Cs. No strings. These were/are all tradeable.

The Stepien rule applied to the 2017 pick. Swap rights allowed the Cs to extract a 4 picks in 5 years from BKN. But the 2017 pick is not conferred to the Cs, and the Cs right to swap locks the Cs pick to the Cs. They can't trade the swap rights, and the rights are related to their own pick.

Here's a fun wrinkle - as I understand it, once the 2016-17 calendar begins, BKN are allowed to (technically) trade the 2017 pick to another team, so when Cs exercise their swap, it's exercised against another team. More realistically, once the Cs exercise the swap, they can trade the pick if they want. This would happen after the end of the regular season but before the lottery.
Brooklyn could only make such a trade though if it brought back a guaranteed (as in unprotected) first round pick, correct? As there is no guaranty that the Celts would exercise the pick swap, BKN trading it for something other than a first-rounder would leave them without a first round pick in consecutive years.
 

zenter

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Brooklyn could only make such a trade though if it brought back a guaranteed (as in unprotected) first round pick, correct? As there is no guaranty that the Celts would exercise the pick swap, trading it for something other than a first-rounder would leave them without a first round pick in consecutive years.
Stepien Rule only applies to "future" picks. Once the NBA calendar flips to the 2016-17 season (I believe it's around August 1), BKN can trade it without 2017 picks in return because it's a "current" pick.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Stepien Rule only applies to "future" picks. Once the NBA calendar flips to the 2016-17 season (I believe it's around August 1), BKN can trade it without 2017 picks in return because it's a "current" pick.
Yeah, but I'm not sure how that would work though, when you factor in the 2018 pick. If you are Brooklyn, you have already conveyed a "future" first round pick, the 2018 pick. If you ship out 2017's first rounder, without getting one back, you have traded a future first round pick (2018) that leaves you without first rounders in consecutive years (2017 and 2018). I agree, looking backwards, to the 2016 pick, it seems to work. But i'm not sure how it plays out looking forward.
 

zenter

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Stepien rule completely ignores current picks. So, come the 2016-2017 season, Stepien applies to 2018 pick and beyond.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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A pick isnt current until the draft. At the start of the league year, it is still a future pick.

From Hoopsrumors

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/01/team-by-team-first-round-pick-trade-restrictions.html

Nets
  • Earliest first-round pick they can trade is for 2020.
From Larry Coon's web page (which you cite above)

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87

The Stepien rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 2011-12 season, then a team can trade its 2012 first round pick without regard to whether they had traded their 2011 pick, since their 2011 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can't trade away both their 2012 and 2013 picks, since both are future picks. ...
Which, if you sub in 2016 for 2011, 2017 for 2012 and 2018 for 2013, you get:

The Stepien rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 2016-17 season, then a team can trade its 2017 first round pick without regard to whether they had traded their 2016 pick, since their 2016 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can't trade away both their 2017 and 2018 picks, since both are future picks.

Brooklyn can't trade their 2017 pick unless they get a first rounder back, and maybe not at all.
 

Drocca

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I would really like to, and apologies because I'm sure I've mentioned this before in other threads, target Brice Johnson at 16 or 23. He is extremely active, an underrated defender that I believe will be able to play pick and rolls on the defensive end at the NBA level at an above-average. His defense will struggle with the new 4's of the league and if you put him at 5 then he's going to have to learn to play defense without fouling and he will never have the size to be anything other than average as a defender at the 5.

Offensively he is a beast, a tremendous ability to score which I believe will extend to the three point line at a passable percentage (enough to keep teams honest when you go spread offense). His passing is elite, his athleticism is only average for his position in the NBA but it's at least not a negative.

All that said: since you guys know I watch way too much UNC; what holes am I missing that could turn him into a barely rotation guy (the only negative outcome in my opinion for a guy taken at 16 and 22, because if you get any rotation guy there then you are drafting very well)? I think if he was a Sophomore coming out right now then he would be a top ten pick, so him taking 4 years to develop is probably a negative for teams but I also look at it as not having to pay for those developmental years. No injury concerns either.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I like Johnson at 23 or 31. He needs to get a lot stronger (I have no clue how he's going to defend 5's, as he's going to get pushed around by 4's). And he currently has no 3 point range, so he's not a modern-day 4. He didn't take a 3 in college, nor has he shown he has NBA 3 pt range in any workouts I've read about, so I don't see that happening.

That said, he's an explosive athlete who can rebound, block shots and run the floor, while having a solid close to mid-range offensive game. I think he can absolutely carve out a role as a bench big, similar to a Taj Gibson or John Henson-type. And that's something the C's could currently use, as Sully could be leaving and we all know the athlete that Olynyk is. But I see Johnson as no better than a role player, which is why I'd wait until 23 or 31, rather than 16.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I would really like to, and apologies because I'm sure I've mentioned this before in other threads, target Brice Johnson at 16 or 23. He is extremely active, an underrated defender that I believe will be able to play pick and rolls on the defensive end at the NBA level at an above-average. His defense will struggle with the new 4's of the league and if you put him at 5 then he's going to have to learn to play defense without fouling and he will never have the size to be anything other than average as a defender at the 5.

Offensively he is a beast, a tremendous ability to score which I believe will extend to the three point line at a passable percentage (enough to keep teams honest when you go spread offense). His passing is elite, his athleticism is only average for his position in the NBA but it's at least not a negative.

All that said: since you guys know I watch way too much UNC; what holes am I missing that could turn him into a barely rotation guy (the only negative outcome in my opinion for a guy taken at 16 and 22, because if you get any rotation guy there then you are drafting very well)? I think if he was a Sophomore coming out right now then he would be a top ten pick, so him taking 4 years to develop is probably a negative for teams but I also look at it as not having to pay for those developmental years. No injury concerns either.
I have him behind Onuaku and ahead of Siakam at the 4, both guys I really like. Part of the appeal of all three is that, as you referred to, they're quick enough to jump out and defend the pick and roll while holding their own down low, though Johnson less so for the latter. Johnson is much more savvy offensive player than the other two, but I give the edge to Onuaku based on age and his elite defense. As far as what could turn Johnson into a fringe guy, I dunno, I think he's got as high a floor as anyone outside of the lottery. This is just a really deep draft, I think that's the only reason he's not getting more love.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Johnson's giving up 40 pounds against 4s and completely lacks a jump shot. Olynyk meanwhile, has NBA size and is an elite shooter for a big. Why people here hate him so much is beyond me.
And despite the perception of him (short arms, unathletic) his defensive metrics are decent. He's a valuable all-around player.
 

DannyDarwinism

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He can't defend his position at this level I feel so certain about this. He doesn't have the foot speed or athleticism. Denzel's one skill is as a spot-up shooter but he will be such a liability on the other end I don't see how he can get minutes.
His defense is Kendall Marshall-esque. I liked watching him play college basketball, but I don't think he's an NBA player and, if he is, a marginal one.
Do guys who are poor college defenders ever turn into anything other than bad NBA defenders? See also: Murray, Jamal.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Do guys who are poor college defenders ever turn into anything other than bad NBA defenders? See also: Murray, Jamal.
It depends on what makes them poor collegiate defenders. In Denzel's case it is lack of foot speed, quickness, and lateral agility......those are only exposed further against much better and longer athletes especially as a perimeter defender without being able to hide in a zone.

Someone like Brice or a Durant back in the day have the ability to gain strength which allows them to compete BETTER defensively as they physically mature.
 

Drocca

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Exactly, and that's why I used my Kendall Marshall comp. I've never seen someone gain lateral quickness in the NBA, but I'm obviously not a professional at scouting this stuff.

The strength issue for Brice is real, as it was for Henson. I just think it may be the easiest aspect to make gains with and also the quickest. His three point shooting is non-existent. I was only basing that on his ft percentage and the stupid eye test. a lot of bigs don't take college threes and then settle into average shooters beyond the arc, I feel like. Anyone have any examples?Bosh, maybe?