2016 Cowboys: Giddyup for Elliot

Bosoxen

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What a game. Dallas is full of fight. Can someone give me a quick & dirty on how they're looking cap wise, and what's likely to happen in terms of players leaving this offseason? And yes I'm hoping to hear that their offensive line is all leaving via free agency. Except for Free.
This seems to suggest they're over the projected cap:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys/

But honestly, no cap analysis for the Cowboys really matters until the Romo situation is resolved. As much as I want them to trade him and get something in return, it looks like the best course of action will be to release him with the post-June 1 designation. Without that, they'd have no room to sign anyone.
 

NickEsasky

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If Cowboys fans had any concerns about Prescott given how little they had to rely on him to win games this season, they should be answered today. He played really well, especially for a rookie. He probably laid to rest any talk of him being a product of the great offensive line and running game.
 

BigSoxFan

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If Cowboys fans had any concerns about Prescott given how little they had to rely on him to win games this season, they should be answered today. He played really well, especially for a rookie. He probably laid to rest any talk of him being a product of the great offensive line and running game.
I mean, the OL and running game certainly contributed a lot to his success. Put him in Philly and we're likely not talking about Dak right now. But those advantages aren't going away. Guy is a bonafide franchise QB with a top 3 RB, an elite outside WR in Dez, a very good slot guy in Beasley, and the best OL in the league. Cowboys are in very good shape over the next few years.

Defensively, they're not a dumpster fire or anything but there's work to be done on that side of the ball for sure.

I think this team makes the SB in the next 2-3 years.
 

Bosoxen

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I think this team makes the SB in the next 2-3 years.
I really hope you're right. Someone mentioned to me last night that they get a 1991 Cowboys vibe from this team. I desperately want to believe that's true but then I look at what happened to Carolina this year and I snap back to the reality that it's not a guarantee in any way. Particularly with as tough as the NFC East is shaping up to be. We won't be seeing an 8-8 team win that division again for a while, so they're going to have to be really good.

They certainly have the tools in place on offense but the defense definitely needs a major overhaul.
 

RetractableRoof

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I mean, the OL and running game certainly contributed a lot to his success. Put him in Philly and we'r

e likely not talking about Dak right now. But those advantages aren't going away. Guy is a bonafide franchise QB with a top 3 RB, an elite outside WR in Dez, a very good slot guy in Beasley, and the best OL in the league. Cowboys are in very good shape over the next few years.

Defensively, they're not a dumpster fire or anything but there's work to be done on that side of the ball for sure.

I think this team makes the SB in the next 2-3 years.
I am NOT saying he is, or will be... but the progression over the year from managing early, then doing stuff... the trend/growth reminds me of a QB in 2001. I don't know who called the spike on first down, but that's the only thing I saw that was what I consider a mental mistake - and that might well have been Garrett.

The shame is I don't believe that they can trade their largest expendable asset due to the cap implications. Romo is going to muddy the waters for a while. (I won't speak ill of Romo either - he could have been a huge distraction this year in Dallas but like Bledsoe he took the high road for the benefit of the team.) And once the Romo decision is made, who is the backup QB?

I've wanted to see Dallas get away from Free for years now... I don't feel any different today. The difference yesterday also could very well have been Gregory which is a damn shame. I do think they've got to get themselves a pass rush (even with 4 sacks), because consistent pass rush is so valuable. I wouldn't be surprised if they looked at increasing the skill of the secondary as well. I guess it depends on what they believe the defensive philosophy is going forward. They have some advantage in that with their offensive line/RB they can somewhat control the clock/field position and not over expose the defense.

One pattern in NFL is that it is relatively easy (I know, I know) to build a team to the point Dallas is at now. It is really hard to draft/trade/sign FAs to get over the hump to the next tier of consistency and competitiveness. It will be really interesting to see what happens between now and training camp.
 

BigSoxFan

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Probably not likely but Dallas is also going to have to decide if Jason Garrett is the right guy to get them to the next level.
 

ElUno20

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The cowboys future looks really bright....but it's the NFL. The two Superbowl teams last year didn't even make the playoffs. Other than the Pats, every year seems like a toss up for playoff spots
 

TFisNEXT

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Probably not likely but Dallas is also going to have to decide if Jason Garrett is the right guy to get them to the next level.
The only real beef I had with Garrett was maybe they didn't look ready to play with the penalties and such early on. How much that's attributed to him is a legit question. But these guys seem to play hard for him and buy his message. I'd probably stick with him. Plus they have had the same offense under him for a decade now and switching it up could be a gamble. So many of these guys are familiar with his system.

Maybe the spike wth 50 sec left too.
 

InstaFace

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Celebrating what is
I'm not even a Cowboys fan and this is one of the biggest asshole posts I can recall. And I know from asshole posts. Even Sausage in Section 17, whose post became a running joke, was good-natured and merely oblivious to how he came off - he wasn't intending to lord anything over anyone. Christ, what an asshole.

Dallas was a very fun team to watch this year, I'm wishing Bosoxen and Greg and the other cowboys fans here a good draft and good health through next year. With Hardy gone, there are very few reasons to hate that team, and plenty of reasons to like them.
 

Bosoxen

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The only real beef I had with Garrett was maybe they didn't look ready to play with the penalties and such early on. How much that's attributed to him is a legit question. But these guys seem to play hard for him and buy his message. I'd probably stick with him. Plus they have had the same offense under him for a decade now and switching it up could be a gamble. So many of these guys are familiar with his system.

Maybe the spike wth 50 sec left too.
That's the one. My biggest beef with Garrett is his clock management. I realize that's not unique to Garrett but with better clock management that game goes into overtime. That's always been an issue with him.

The coaching staff overall had some rough spots yesterday - and as much as I'm sure Cowboys fans want to get rid of the whole lot of em - I think they'd be best served with some continuity. Perhaps they could stand to make a few minor changes here and there - like, say, a wide receivers coach who will teach the receivers to catch the ball with their fucking hands.
 

Van Everyman

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Celebrating what is
Incredibly douchey move. Let's celebrate that for a while. What a douche you are.
I'm not even a Cowboys fan and this is one of the biggest asshole posts I can recall. And I know from asshole posts.
Wait, why? I didn't see H78 elsewhere—and maybe I'm missing the full context behind "Celebrating What Is"—but he did follow his original post with this:

I just believe inexperience is going to cost them, as it does to a lot of young teams in the playoffs. I think the media, in general, is underestimating the intensity that comes with regular season games versus postseason games. Dak and EE are probably going to be dealing with defensive approaches/packages they haven't really dealt with this season, as well as the pressure to perform against the toughest competition they'll have faced all year.

I also don't know if they're mentally there yet. I want to see how they respond to being down a couple of scores - will Dez revert back to Dez? How will Dak respond to that? What happens when they're faced with not being able to control the clock? They feel a little bit like front runners to me.

I could see a team like GB jumping ahead and rattling them. Just a sneaking suspicion.
Now, it probably wasn't inexperience that cost them – Dak and Zeke looked really good. And Dez's TD catch was insanely good. But was he wrong about GB jumping ahead and rattling them a bit? Or Dallas not being able to control the clock once they did come back? Other than maybe tooting his own horn, I feel like I'm missing something about this post's inherent douchiness.
 

dcmissle

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For once I think JJ's take on this was entirely sensible -- he expected the team to go deep and Sunday confirmed the reasonableness of that expectation.

H78's post should be taken literally and in good faith. What is is a team a solid offseason away from competing at a very high level for years, unless Dak was a mirage, which I don't believe. There is every reason to have confidence in the team's front office at this point. They have walked the walk, beginning with the assembling of that o-line, which was met with some taunts at the time that this lineman or that was "overdrafted".
 

Bosoxen

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I'm guessing he wanted to take the victory lap because I challenged him on why he thought the Cowboys would be one and done. He probably thought I was being an asshole but I was merely trying to get him to add to the discussion with more substance. That is what we do here, right?

I stand by my initial response to that post and I gather most - though clearly not all - agree that he deserved to be called out for it.
 

Dogman

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He should have been called out for it. The Cowboy fans and this thread always add a ton to BBTL and it should be celebrated as part of the reason BBTL is such a great place to talk football.

As mentioned, taking a victory lap, despite not being wholly accurate, is petty and childish. Be better than that H78. Be much better.
 

BigSoxFan

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Jerry Jones x1000

I do like the other guys, tho.
Has Jerry really been that bad lately? He's obviously insufferable when they're winning (just like us Pats fans) but I feel like he's been making mostly sound moves/decisions recently outside of the Hardy debacle. The decision to focus on the OL and run game has basically revamped this team and he didn't draft Manziel, insist on Romo going in, etc. People love to goof on the guy but there aren't many franchises that are better-positioned for near-term success than these Cowboys.
 

TFisNEXT

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Has Jerry really been that bad lately? He's obviously insufferable when they're winning (just like us Pats fans) but I feel like he's been making mostly sound moves/decisions recently outside of the Hardy debacle. The decision to focus on the OL and run game has basically revamped this team and he didn't draft Manziel, insist on Romo going in, etc. People love to goof on the guy but there aren't many franchises that are better-positioned for near-term success than these Cowboys.
With Stephen Jones having a lot more control of the football operations, drafts are no longer a dumpster fire like they were pre-Parcells Era and maybe briefly afterward (like the Roy Williams disaster trade in 2008).

As long as Jerrah resists the urge to control too much of the personnel decisions, the Cowboys will be a force for the next several years. Hard to believe that Tyron Smith who just turned 26 is the oldest of their 3 pro bowl offensive linemen. That offense could be filthy for a while.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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The only real beef I had with Garrett was maybe they didn't look ready to play with the penalties and such early on. How much that's attributed to him is a legit question. But these guys seem to play hard for him and buy his message. I'd probably stick with him. Plus they have had the same offense under him for a decade now and switching it up could be a gamble. So many of these guys are familiar with his system.

Maybe the spike wth 50 sec left too.
I thought he coached a good game to be honest. I have been a critic of Garrett's pretty much since he was at Princeton, but he did a very good job this season and had some bad luck running into a white hot QB in the playoffs. Who would be an upgrade from him who is available? In my opinion none of the guys out there could do better than he did this season.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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Wait, why? I didn't see H78 elsewhere—and maybe I'm missing the full context behind "Celebrating What Is"—but he did follow his original post with this:


Now, it probably wasn't inexperience that cost them – Dak and Zeke looked really good. And Dez's TD catch was insanely good. But was he wrong about GB jumping ahead and rattling them a bit? Or Dallas not being able to control the clock once they did come back? Other than maybe tooting his own horn, I feel like I'm missing something about this post's inherent douchiness.
That you don't understand the douchiness is a reflection on you to be frank.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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I'm guessing he wanted to take the victory lap because I challenged him on why he thought the Cowboys would be one and done. He probably thought I was being an asshole but I was merely trying to get him to add to the discussion with more substance. That is what we do here, right?

I stand by my initial response to that post and I gather most - though clearly not all - agree that he deserved to be called out for it.
It's really fucking simple. Don't celebrate anything about a team's loss in the first 24 hours minimum, and really probably about 3 or 4 days. And even then, pick your spots.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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This seems to suggest they're over the projected cap:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys/

But honestly, no cap analysis for the Cowboys really matters until the Romo situation is resolved. As much as I want them to trade him and get something in return, it looks like the best course of action will be to release him with the post-June 1 designation. Without that, they'd have no room to sign anyone.
Yeah, Dak played himself into the starting gig yesterday (and obviously over the course of the season too). As much as I would love to see the Cowboys have to let a few linemen go, they are nicely positioned
 

Van Everyman

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That you don't understand the douchiness is a reflection on you to be frank.
It's really fucking simple. Don't celebrate anything about a team's loss in the first 24 hours minimum, and really probably about 3 or 4 days. And even then, pick your spots.
Wait, really? This is a thing? How long until after the Broncos got bounced from the playoffs did Patriots fans here wait to dance on their graves? Or God forbid, the Jets or Bills collapses this year?

I mean, I know I don't go around acting like a douche on this board – or doing much in the way of celebrating to that end. And I did note that posters in this forum were awfully—perhaps overly—complimentary of the Dolphins after their season ended last weekend. But unless it is simply a matter of timing (did H78 rush to post this immediately after the game ended? SoSHapp doesn't have time stamps) or that we think there should be celebration moratoria after particularly painful losses (which is fair I suppose), I have a slightly hard time understanding the intensity of the wagon circling here.
 

dcmissle

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It's time, place and context.

Right after a loss is bad in a thread dedicated to a team that has had a magical season after 2 full decades of owner fueled frustration.
 

BigSoxFan

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It's time, place and context.

Right after a loss is bad in a thread dedicated to a team that has had a magical season after 2 full decades of owner fueled frustration.
Particularly in a thread comprised of a few diehards who don't in any way antagonize us Patriots homers and who provide solid analysis every year on a team that is always interesting. It's just a douche move when the emotions are still raw and the loss not yet fully-digested.
 

Van Everyman

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Ok that makes more sense. I have a former work colleague who is a diehard Cowboys fan who I regularly send notes of sympathy to after the season ends. This one will hurt a bit more I suspect.

For my part, if there was even an inkling of doubt that Romo might stick around, that was wiped yesterday. Cap hit notwithstanding, the job is Prescott's now for sure.
 

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It'll be interesting to see if there's a market for romo and if so what it'll be. I have to think someone would give up a low draft pick?
 

Van Everyman

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The rumor is Denver tho I have no idea how much truth there is to it. I mean, Romo has played in, what, 5 games the last two seasons?
 

Old Fart Tree

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That defense with Romo this year would have had a bye I think and maybe the 1 seed. Next year? Could be a different story on both sides.
 

BigSoxFan

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It'll be interesting to see if there's a market for romo and if so what it'll be. I have to think someone would give up a low draft pick?
Makes a ton of sense for Houston too if they can get the dollars to work. Obviously, Brock would be a massive sunk cost but I don't know how you can possibly start next season with him as your QB.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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That defense with Romo this year would have had a bye I think and maybe the 1 seed. Next year? Could be a different story on both sides.
I think he would be considered in Denver, Houston, Miami (maybe. Gase may like Tannehill), Minnesota, Cincinnati, Kansas City, NJY and maybe even Los Angeles, to act as a mentor for Goff.
 

Bosoxen

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I think he would be considered in Denver, Houston, Miami (maybe. Gase may like Tannehill), Minnesota, Cincinnati, Kansas City, NJY and maybe even Los Angeles, to act as a mentor for Goff.
I honestly don't see Minnesota as an option. They already have Bridgewater and his injury caused the panic move to send a boat load of picks to Philly for Sam Fucking Bradford. I doubt they have the resources to even be considered in the conversation for a trade.

Now, if Romo were to be released, that's a different story. But I would imagine any action on that front would signal a very bad prognosis for Bridgewater.
 

PedroKsBambino

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But they can't trade him due to cap considerations as discussed previously, right?
I believe that is the case.

I'd be surprised if Cincinnati, Miami, or Minnesota were options. I think there's a case for KC being one, but given Reid's approach and what he's said about Smith I don't think it likely is one either.
 

kelpapa

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But they can't trade him due to cap considerations as discussed previously, right?
He's $19.6mm against Dallas' cap if they trade him, and $14mm against the cap for the team that gets him. That's an attractive salary to any team that gets him.
He's $10.7mm against the cap this year if he's a post June 1 cut, plus $8+mm against the cap next year.
The Cowboys are at $176mm right now, and the cap is estimated at $170mm. The post June 1 cut probably makes the most sense right now, but a few restructures/cuts could change things. I don't know enough about the Cowboys roster to project any cuts/restructures.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Round numbers, the Cowboys have a choice of taking a $20 mil dead cap hit in 2017 or $10 mil each of 2017 and 2018. I imagine they prefer the latter, and thus the 'bar' for a trade is getting enough back for it to be worth (effectively) accelerating that hit all into 2017. I suspect that's a difficult bar to clear but not impossible.

While $14 mil is viable for a starting QB, it likely is not for Houston given that they are stuck with Osweiler's money in 2017. Other teams will view that differently, though I still expect they'll wait out Cowboys and bet on a release.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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I honestly don't see Minnesota as an option. They already have Bridgewater and his injury caused the panic move to send a boat load of picks to Philly for Sam Fucking Bradford. I doubt they have the resources to even be considered in the conversation for a trade.

Now, if Romo were to be released, that's a different story. But I would imagine any action on that front would signal a very bad prognosis for Bridgewater.
I'm assuming that he is cut, but you never know.

From everything I am hearing, Minnesota thinks that they are going to be in the running for the division next season (Packers decline, Bears and Lions are the Bears and Lions), and maybe more. This strikes me as very, very delusional, but hey....they don't ask me these things, you know?
 

kelpapa

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Houston has $25mm in cap space - only 8 teams have less cap space than them.

Denver has $33 mm, and could cut Talib and Okung to save another $22mm (post June 1). They still make the most sense to me.
 

Bosoxen

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I'm assuming that he is cut, but you never know.
Fair enough. Any hope for a trade pretty much requires Romo to restructure his contract prior to the trade. But if you're Romo, why do you agree to that when you can force the release and then have your pick of where you end up going?

The Cowboys don't really have a ton of leverage here. And cutting him carries the extra risk of him signing in either NY or Washington. I don't think either one of us wants that.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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Fair enough. Any hope for a trade pretty much requires Romo to restructure his contract prior to the trade. But if you're Romo, why do you agree to that when you can force the release and then have your pick of where you end up going?

The Cowboys don't really have a ton of leverage here. And cutting him carries the extra risk of him signing in either NY or Washington. I don't think either one of us wants that.
The Romo situation is basically a bitter pill that the Cowboys are going to have to swallow in one way or another. But yeah, I would far rather see him outside of the NFC East. Your point on Washington is a good one. I could easily see Snyder signing him and telling Cousins to go spin.
 

Bosoxen

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I could easily see Snyder signing him and telling Cousins to go spin.
That's precisely my thinking. Cousins is going to ask for Romo money and I'm still not entirely sold on whether he's worth that much - particularly with, as was pointed out in the coaching carousel thread, the potential for Gruden getting the axe after the 2017 season. Cousins strikes me as a product of the system, which vastly reduces his value if a change does occur.
 

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Romo to the Skins would be great drama, but I think from his perspective he wouldn't do it unless he had no other options. He's got a legacy in Dallas, and he has to realize the impact going to Wash would have of that during post-retirement times. Plus, Washington seems like a less likely bet to get to the Bowl than Den or Houston.

If I'm Den, and to a lesser extent Houston, I do whatever it takes to get Romo on the team. It's a QB league and you're not going anywhere with crap at QB.
 

dcmissle

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That's precisely my thinking. Cousins is going to ask for Romo money and I'm still not entirely sold on whether he's worth that much - particularly with, as was pointed out in the coaching carousel thread, the potential for Gruden getting the axe after the 2017 season. Cousins strikes me as a product of the system, which vastly reduces his value if a change does occur.
This is a realistic concern. The fan base is not going to be happy if Cousins leaves, and Romo is about the only guy who could be brought in to muffle the noise. Nobody will buy the narrative that Scott's going to find the next Dak in the next draft.

The sensible play for the Cowboys and Romo is for the former to give Tony the pick of where he goes, with one or two places off limits. The cap hit is gonna be the cap hit.

I think this will happen.
 

Bosoxen

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He's got a legacy in Dallas
Does he, though? We Cowboys fans with fully-functioning brains appreciate him for what he is and understand that he got a really raw fucking deal here with the garbage teams he had to drag to the playoffs - whenever he could. The other 98% think he sucks and is the primary reason why the Cowboys have won one playoff game since he came to the team (I'm sure they'll find a way to blame him for what happened on Sunday).
 

TFisNEXT

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Does he, though? We Cowboys fans with fully-functioning brains appreciate him for what he is and understand that he got a really raw fucking deal here with the garbage teams he had to drag to the playoffs - whenever he could. The other 98% think he sucks and is the primary reason why the Cowboys have won one playoff game since he came to the team (I'm sure they'll find a way to blame him for what happened on Sunday).
I was actually thinking about this yesterday...if the Cowboys had lost that exact game except with Tony Romo at QB instead of Dak Prescott, I guarantee all you would hear about is the INT thrown on the WR screen in the 3rd quarter. The narrative would have been all about him choking.

He's probably been the most star-crossed great player in the Cowboys' long history. I'm sure his mind will wander for a long time wondering how 2016 would have turned out if he hadn't taken that hit in the preseason.
 

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Realistically, another hit probably would have knocked him out at some point. The guy's body is breaking an I really question whether he can last another full season. Wherever he goes will have a worse OL than Dallas so he'll be at a greater risk of injury wherever he lands. I hope he doesn't go to Denver because I really want to be able to root for him in his next and probably final spot.