2016 49ers: Kaep and Trade?

Super Nomario

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smastroyin

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figuring out a title is probably going to be more interesting than their season at this point
 

wutang112878

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I don't know about Chip, but San Francisco is objectively a terrible situation for a QB. Bottom five in offensive talent, top five in most organizational dysfunction.
What I dont see is where he is going to go where he actually has a better chance to be a starter? The places that I can think of that have a bit of an unsettled QB situation are: Houston (but I cant see Obrien wanting Kap), Cleveland, maybe the Bears and the Rams. I would imagine at least 2 of those teams get their starter in the draft and maybe the 49ers would do that too. So I think you are looking at 2 potential options which doesnt seem like a great market to me.
 

Super Nomario

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What I dont see is where he is going to go where he actually has a better chance to be a starter? The places that I can think of that have a bit of an unsettled QB situation are: Houston (but I cant see Obrien wanting Kap), Cleveland, maybe the Bears and the Rams. I would imagine at least 2 of those teams get their starter in the draft and maybe the 49ers would do that too. So I think you are looking at 2 potential options which doesnt seem like a great market to me.
I think he's better off going somewhere to sit for a couple years and work on his stuff behind the scenes than start in San Francisco and (almost inevitably) fail.
 

wutang112878

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I think he's better off going somewhere to sit for a couple years and work on his stuff behind the scenes than start in San Francisco and (almost inevitably) fail.
This would probably be his last shot as a starter, but he has to begin looking like an NFL starter now or his starting career is basically over. He is 28 and I really cant think of an example, in recent history, where a QB went from a starter to a bench player in his late 20s and then went on to have any significant career. And if he goes to the bench, I think he could quickly be forgotten around the league.

Now I agree that he's got a lot of stuff to work on, and sure the talent around him isnt great, but I think the Kelly offense can put lipstick on a bad QB pig. Last year with Bradford and Sanchez at QB and a horribly disappointing Murray they were 13th in offense.
 

Super Nomario

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This would probably be his last shot as a starter, but he has to begin looking like an NFL starter now or his starting career is basically over. He is 28 and I really cant think of an example, in recent history, where a QB went from a starter to a bench player in his late 20s and then went on to have any significant career. And if he goes to the bench, I think he could quickly be forgotten around the league.

Now I agree that he's got a lot of stuff to work on, and sure the talent around him isnt great, but I think the Kelly offense can put lipstick on a bad QB pig. Last year with Bradford and Sanchez at QB and a horribly disappointing Murray they were 13th in offense.
The Eagles' offensive talent was thoroughly overrated last year, but they are the Mike Martz Rams compared to what the 49ers have. They are awful. They finished 32nd in points for a reason - actually, for a lot of reasons throughout the offense. There isn't enough pig-lipstick in the world. It's fair to say going to the bench for a year or two and then starting is a longshot, but I view it as less of a longshot than succeeding on the 2016 Niners.
 
Dec 21, 2015
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Schefter reporting that the Broncos, Jets and Browns are interested in trading for Kaepernick.

I think his best move might be to stay with Chip, who will at least know what to do with him. The downside for him, of course, is the rest of the roster, which is a long way from the Harbaugh glory days.

I dearly hope the Jets and Bowles don't get a hold of him, because anyone who fixes him will unleash unholy terror on their division. I still have nightmares about that Dec 2012 game where they ran out to a 31-3 lead, Brady and the D stormed back to tie it, and Kaepernick won it late with some heroics.
 

coremiller

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Kaep wanting out has nothing to do with Chip or the rest of the roster and everything to do with 49ers management treating him like crap for the last three years. They convinced him to sign a very team-friendly extension in 2014 based on the premise that they'd use the extra money to improve the rest of the team, which they have not done. Then they ran an excellent offensive coaching staff out of town and hired a totally incompetent staff that had no idea how to use him. When Kaep struggled as a result, they threw him under the bus with anonymous leaks to the media that he was disliked in the locker room and not a hard worker. If I were him I wouldn't want to play there anymore either.
 

Gunfighter 09

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whLooks like the contract adjustment that needed to happen for Kaep to play is in works...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/07/report-49ers-kaepernick-working-on-restructured-contract/

The 49ers are working on a new contract for quarterback Colin Kaepernick, perhaps setting the stage for Kaepernick to replace Blaine Gabbert as the starter in San Francisco.

The deal the two sides are working on would alleviate the 49ers’ concerns about Kaepernick’s injury guarantees, Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports.

The new deal would shorten Kaepernick’s deal and eliminate his guarantees in 2017. That means the 49ers could play Kaepernick and not have to worry about owing him more money in the future if he gets hurt in 2016.

IF this gives Kaep the ability to just walk away at the end of the season, Baalke is a fucking idiot for not trading Kaepernick for something of value this past off season when there was an actual market from teams like Denver.
 

SoxinSeattle

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BB would promptly be called out as the biggest cheater who ever cheated and the nfl would make this illegal overnight.
Smart play though.
 

H78

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I'm a pretty progressive person, but even I'm getting tired of far-left people that know nothing about football asking what they think is a provocative question on Facebook: "Um, why isn't Colin Kaepernick signed?"

Because he sucks, you dope. Part of it is the media circus, but if he were a good football player he'd be on a roster right now. NFL teams have dealt with far worse people than Colin Kaepernick because they were incredible football players.

Kaep's not a good NFL player. Please go back to ranting about something else in the political echo chamber that is now Facebook.
 

Kliq

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I'm a pretty progressive person, but even I'm getting tired of far-left people that know nothing about football asking what they think is a provocative question on Facebook: "Um, why isn't Colin Kaepernick signed?"

Because he sucks, you dope. Part of it is the media circus, but if he were a good football player he'd be on a roster right now. NFL teams have dealt with far worse people than Colin Kaepernick because they were incredible football players.

Kaep's not a good NFL player. Please go back to ranting about something else in the political echo chamber that is now Facebook.
The opposite end of the spectrum is Tebow; who was a hero to bible-belt conservatives but his marginal talents couldn't make up for the fact that you bring this guy in and a bunch of media is going to follow and everyone in the organization is going to have to answer a bunch of questions they otherwise wouldn't have to answer if they brought in some other replacement-level schmuck.
 

dcdrew10

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I'm a pretty progressive person, but even I'm getting tired of far-left people that know nothing about football asking what they think is a provocative question on Facebook: "Um, why isn't Colin Kaepernick signed?"

Because he sucks, you dope. Part of it is the media circus, but if he were a good football player he'd be on a roster right now. NFL teams have dealt with far worse people than Colin Kaepernick because they were incredible football players.

Kaep's not a good NFL player. Please go back to ranting about something else in the political echo chamber that is now Facebook.
This is an interesting counterpoint to why he's not signed:
Kaepernick is one of 144 quarterbacks who have thrown 200 or more passes in the year they turned 29. The other 143 could all find jobs in the year they turned 30. Only Kaepernick can’t.
Kaepernick isn't an awful QB, he's just not as good as he was in 2013-2014. He has averaged less than an half an INT/game for his career and he's never had a season of starting double digit games where he hasn't had a QB Rating above 85 and he has had 3 seasons above 90. You can't tell me that that is a worse track record than Blake Bortles, Geno Smith, Ryan Fiztpatrick, Blain Gabbert, or Case Keenum, all of whom have jobs.

You can say he is too much of a distraction, his skill set doesn't fit most teams systems as a back-up, but you can't blame his lack of employment on his ability, considering some of the players who have jobs.
 

joe dokes

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The opposite end of the spectrum is Tebow; who was a hero to bible-belt conservatives but his marginal talents couldn't make up for the fact that you bring this guy in and a bunch of media is going to follow and everyone in the organization is going to have to answer a bunch of questions they otherwise wouldn't have to answer if they brought in some other replacement-level schmuck.
That's an interesting comp. Although Kaepernick has had considerably more pro success than did Tebow. (Relatively, of course).
 

kenneycb

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This is an interesting counterpoint to why he's not signed:


Kaepernick isn't an awful QB, he's just not as good as he was in 2013-2014. He has averaged less than an half an INT/game for his career and he's never had a season of starting double digit games where he hasn't had a QB Rating above 85 and he has had 3 seasons above 90. You can't tell me that that is a worse track record than Blake Bortles, Geno Smith, Ryan Fiztpatrick, Blain Gabbert, or Case Keenum, all of whom have jobs.

You can say he is too much of a distraction, his skill set doesn't fit most teams systems as a back-up, but you can't blame his lack of employment on his ability, considering some of the players who have jobs.
Isn't saying he doesn't fit most systems directly calling out his lack of ability?

That argument is also as sound similar to the "Michael Sam was an SEC DPOY so he's going to be good in the NFL" argument. It ignores a host of other variables to serve a specific point.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I think it's pretty foolish to say he doesn't have a job right now because he's not a good qb. Fitting systems - we just saw that when Seattle passed on him, he'd have been percent for them.

As someone noted there's a handful of QBs he is inarguably better than that are starters and there's less than a handful of backups he isnt better than, which leads me to believe that it's likely a cross between blackballing and overly ambitious salary demands. I'd also wager to say that something about his personality is rubbing owners or GMs the wrong way, beyond the politics. We know they don't care about that.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I think it's pretty foolish to say he doesn't have a job right now because he's not a good qb. Fitting systems - we just saw that when Seattle passed on him, he'd have been percent for them.

As someone noted there's a handful of QBs he is inarguably better than that are starters and there's less than a handful of backups he isnt better than, which leads me to believe that it's likely a cross between blackballing and overly ambitious salary demands. I'd also wager to say that something about his personality is rubbing owners or GMs the wrong way, beyond the politics. We know they don't care about that.
Didn't he have the reputation in SF as being a loner in the locker room and someone who didn't work very hard? Those are two terrible traits for a QB. There was a lot of crap floated out there in SF so it's tough to tell what's true and what's not.
 

bakahump

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I think it's pretty foolish to say he doesn't have a job right now because he's not a good qb. Fitting systems - we just saw that when Seattle passed on him, he'd have been percent for them.
There seem to be other things going on with Seattle though. I dont know if I would bring in a "decent" outspoken backup to that team if I was management. Sure it might cost me a win or two if Wilson goes down. But I IMHO Kaep would be a lightning rod for further dysfunction within the locker room in that situation, even if ignoring his past PR problems. I could picture Sherman spouting off "Wilson is still teachers pet, Pete wont say anything to him even now! We know that Col would be just as good with this defense!" Queue additional desk throwing and uncomfortable meetings.

They seem better off with a kinda crappy or at least an "invisible" backup that cant be drawn in the locker room politics affecting that team.
Kaep isnt that guy.
 

splendid splinter

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Many posters here have speculated in the past that Belichick met with this guy or worked out that guy as a way of "doing him a solid" to raise his profile and get him a shot somewhere. Could Carroll be doing the same thing here, working out Kaepernick with no real intention of signing him, just so he could gush about him and declare that he's definitely still a starting-caliber quarterback?
 

coremiller

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Didn't he have the reputation in SF as being a loner in the locker room and someone who didn't work very hard? Those are two terrible traits for a QB. There was a lot of crap floated out there in SF so it's tough to tell what's true and what's not.
This was all nonsense leaked by management to make him look bad during all the front office infighting. By all credible accounts (i.e. not anonymous sources with an agenda) he's a tremendously hard worker who gets along fine with his teammates. His teammates voted him the team's Most Inspirational/Courageous Player last year.
 

scott bankheadcase

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This was all nonsense leaked by management to make him look bad during all the front office infighting. By all credible accounts (i.e. not anonymous sources with an agenda) he's a tremendously hard worker who gets along fine with his teammates. His teammates voted him the team's Most Inspirational/Courageous Player last year.
To follow up on this, Harbaugh and Chip Kelly specifically said he worked as hard as anyone on the team and was always very focused in film sessions. The 49ers lockerroom was not a great place under Tomsula/Baalke and, while it did get better under Kelly, I do think it's still repairing itself, but the issues had little to do with Kaepernick.
 

Carlos Cowart

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There's no question he's a better QB than a ton of backups in the league. The problem, as perceived by everyone in the NFL, is that he doesn't see himself as a backup. Five years ago everyone, including Kaepernik, figured he was going to be a top tier QB for the next decade - but then he had 4 declining years and is now 29 coming off a 2-14 season. No one except him thinks he could possibly be the future of any franchise.

Backups need to be Rudy, in the form of young guys like Garoppolo (who won't be content to be that guy much longer either) or Flutie/Testaverde at the end of their careers who just want to stay in FB as long as they can in any capacity. Kaepernik can't convince any team he'd be content busting his ass getting the defense ready Monday through Saturday and then sitting quietly on the bench on Sunday. Kaepernik's only goal in taking a backup job would be to wrestle the helm away from the starter. What locker room wants that?
 

bradmahn

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There's no question he's a better QB than a ton of backups in the league. The problem, as perceived by everyone in the NFL, is that he doesn't see himself as a backup. Five years ago everyone, including Kaepernik, figured he was going to be a top tier QB for the next decade - but then he had 4 declining years and is now 29 coming off a 2-14 season. No one except him thinks he could possibly be the future of any franchise.

Backups need to be Rudy, in the form of young guys like Garoppolo (who won't be content to be that guy much longer either) or Flutie/Testaverde at the end of their careers who just want to stay in FB as long as they can in any capacity. Kaepernik can't convince any team he'd be content busting his ass getting the defense ready Monday through Saturday and then sitting quietly on the bench on Sunday. Kaepernik's only goal in taking a backup job would be to wrestle the helm away from the starter. What locker room wants that?
And you know all this how?
 

Carlos Cowart

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I've had lengthy discussions with every member of every coaching staff on every team in the league.

Or...Incognito and Mixon have jobs, so I can see owners are willing to offer jobs to shitheads like them if they feel they can help their teams. And Kaepernik is a minor shithead compared to those guys and a dozen others. So I do the math on what motivates teams.

I suggest you petition the league to allow you to start a new franchise, you know, and then pay for it, then sign Kaepernik as your franchise (shit, or backup) QB. Then you could show all these stupid franchises who passed on him how dumb they were when you raise your 7th Lombardi with Kaepernik. It will only cost you about a billion.
 

Michelle34B

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Five years ago the 49ers had an elite defense and rushing attack. The read option was the most amazing thing ever. Kaepernick went solo against the Packers and ran for 181 yards in a playoff game. Things change.

Kaepernick would have been a great fit in Chicago. He's played well regardless of weather in college and pro. The coaching staff has had their experiences with similar quarterbacks, John Fox with Tebow, and OC Dowell Loggains with Jake Locker and Manziel. They decided to go with Mike Glennon on what is essentially a one-year deal where he is paid as a starter. Mike Glennon is a better pocket passer than Kaepernick, but willingness to agree to a one-year deal seems to be the bigger factor.

That's it. That was the only contract so far this offseason that would have paid Kaepernick close to the money he made last year.

Pete Carroll just got done saying that Kaepernick is starter in this league, and then chose to sign Austin Davis for the vet's minimum.

So maybe Minnesota is next?

Minnesota has Sam Bradford starting, but is a free agent at the end of the year. The current backups are Case Keenum and Taylor Heinicke. Teddy Bridgewater is still recovering from a knee injury. Pat Shurmur is OC, and was OC for Chip Kelly three years with the Eagles. This could potentially end up being a better fit than Chicago, considering all of the question marks for the quarterback position long term..


Wherever he signs, it's probably going to be a one-year deal, and now it looks like he would be lucky to get $6M, or teams will look elsewhere.
 

Carlos Cowart

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I'd want a backup who wants to be on the field and is willing to compete and push the starter in a healthy and positive way...and then be OK with being a cheerleader on Sunday.

Would you prefer to have Dave Roberts or Chris Stynes as a utility OFer? Stynes was arguably the better player but wasn't going to complacent with a backup role. Which of course begs the question, why did he even sign with the Red Sox?
 
Would you prefer to have Dave Roberts or Chris Stynes as a utility OFer? Stynes was arguably the better player but wasn't going to complacent with a backup role. Which of course begs the question, why did he even sign with the Red Sox?
The Sox traded for Stynes by sending Michael Coleman and Donnie Sadler to Cincinnati. He never signed with Boston.
 

MalzoneExpress

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I'd want a backup who wants to be on the field and is willing to compete and push the starter in a healthy and positive way...and then be OK with being a cheerleader on Sunday.

Would you prefer to have Dave Roberts or Chris Stynes as a utility OFer? Stynes was arguably the better player but wasn't going to complacent with a backup role. Which of course begs the question, why did he even sign with the Red Sox?
The Sox traded for Stynes by sending Michael Coleman and Donnie Sadler to Cincinnati. He never signed with Boston.
Someone didn't get the meme-o. The italicized phrase is a reference to the meme that arose surrounding Jay Payton. Payton was acquired by trade in 2005, but was unhappy with his 4th outfielder role, so he forced his way out of town. A poster asked why he even signed with the Sox and a meme was born.
 
@MalzoneExpress @Carlos Cowart My apologies. When I saw the italics I thought I might be missing something. I even looked up "Stynes" in the SoSH search box before my initial post to make sure there wasn't a Stynes meme-o I missed (he only came up in the least favorite Sox discussion). I remember being so excited about this trade at the time...oh well. Sorry to derail...carry on.
 

MalzoneExpress

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@MalzoneExpress @Carlos Cowart My apologies. When I saw the italics I thought I might be missing something. I even looked up "Stynes" in the SoSH search box before my initial post to make sure there wasn't a Stynes meme-o I missed (he only came up in the least favorite Sox discussion). I remember being so excited about this trade at the time...oh well. Sorry to derail...carry on.
No worries. I remembered the meme, but it took me a while to dredge Jay Payton from the back of my mind. It was 12 years ago after all.