2016-2017 NC Hoops: Heel Turn

The Gray Eagle

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That screener will never be able to have kids given the ferocity of that intentional kick, I feel so bad for him
You're doing tremendous work in this thread, thanks for reminding me why I despise Duke basketball fans so much. "He didn't kick the guy in the nuts that hard in his second game back from his suspension for tripping!"
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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My buddies and I thank the rich folk who didn't feel like braving the snow. I will remember that game forever, fifth row center court watching them crush with a great crowd.
 

DJnVa

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Average Reds

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OK, after viewing footage of Grayson Allen's latest idiocy, I'm coming around to the view that he's just a fucking punk. And a moron.

It's not that any one thing he does is so horrible. (The pushing of the assistant was not anything serious.) It's that they seem to happen all the damn time, and he can't seem to stop himself even though he knows his every move is under scrutiny.

No one hurled him into the bench there - he did that himself. No one reached out to push or hit him as he came into the bench - he very deliberately went after the assistant.

I'm a bit amazed that Krzyzewski seems willing to allow this kid to define his program, but that's his perogative.
 

BigSoxFan

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OK, after viewing footage of Grayson Allen's latest idiocy, I'm coming around to the view that he's just a fucking punk. And a moron.

It's not that any one thing he does is so horrible. (The pushing of the assistant was not anything serious.) It's that they seem to happen all the damn time, and he can't seem to stop himself even though he knows his every move is under scrutiny.

No one hurled him into the bench there - he did that himself. No one reached out to push or hit him as he came into the bench - he very deliberately went after the assistant.

I'm a bit amazed that Krzyzewski seems willing to allow this kid to define his program, but that's his perogative.
Look, Coach K already took away his allowance and Nintendo rights. What more do you want him to do?
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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OK, after viewing footage of Grayson Allen's latest idiocy, I'm coming around to the view that he's just a fucking punk. And a moron.

It's not that any one thing he does is so horrible. (The pushing of the assistant was not anything serious.) It's that they seem to happen all the damn time, and he can't seem to stop himself even though he knows his every move is under scrutiny.

No one hurled him into the bench there - he did that himself. No one reached out to push or hit him as he came into the bench - he very deliberately went after the assistant.

I'm a bit amazed that Krzyzewski seems willing to allow this kid to define his program, but that's his perogative.
Lol. He fucking moved the guy out of the way so he wouldn't plow into him with his shoulder, body to body.
 

Average Reds

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Lol. He fucking moved the guy out of the way so he wouldn't plow into him with his shoulder, body to body.
Amazing how one guy is put in these positions all the damn time when it seems to happen to no one else. Regardless, your position here is a joke.

He's not some serial killer and I made a point of saying that his actions were minor. But the lack of judgment is stunning. That you will reflexively defend him like Baghdad Bob to the end is on you.
 

tims4wins

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Jesus christ.

"Grayson Allen did not make a dirty play," Gates told ESPN on Wednesday morning. "That was not a dirty play. He plays hard, he dove after a loose ball. I should have been sitting down, but I wasn't. My intent was to absorb the contact. His hip hit my hip and that's what people aren't looking it. That's a basketball play. Not a dirty play."

"We teach kids to run down loose balls and make hustle plays," Gates added. "That's what he did. He was just trying to get back in the play.

"Out of reaction, he put his hands up to protect himself," he continued. "He didn't push me. He was just protecting himself."
 

IdiotKicker

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It's a bang-bang play and I have no idea if anything there was intentional or not, but the fact is that he's put himself in this position where everything will be scrutinized in slow motion because he's been a dink previously.
 

uk_sox_fan

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Are people seriously saying they believe that play was dirty? I read some tweets before looking up the video and had to laugh when I finally saw what they were referring to. But those are general anti-Duke trolls and ESPN agitators. People here are real fans - you honestly think that Allen did something dirty there?
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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His actions are under a microscope so every little thing is going to be over analyzed. He has proven himself a cheap shot artist though, that is not in dispute.
 

Greg29fan

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Since January 1 road teams in ACC league play not named the University of North Carolina Tar Heels are 1-17. UNC is 2-0.
 

uk_sox_fan

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His actions are under a microscope so every little thing is going to be over analyzed. He has proven himself a cheap shot artist though, that is not in dispute.
But if he's 'proven himself' a cheap shot artist or whatever why pile on nonsensical crap? Doesn't that weaken the argument? If he truly can't help tripping as people claim wouldn't new evidence present itself without trying so hard to manufacture it?
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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But if he's 'proven himself' a cheap shot artist or whatever why pile on nonsensical crap? Doesn't that weaken the argument? If he truly can't help tripping as people claim wouldn't new evidence present itself without trying so hard to manufacture it?
It's a Red Sox message board with a total of 12 or so posts on Grayson Allen.

I would relax, dude.
 

uk_sox_fan

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Not wound up at all - it's precisely because of the context of this board that I sought a rational discussion. Figured that would be impossible on a general (e.g. ESPN) college hoops discussion board. Dude.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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I know, I just think people enjoy ripping on Duke and Grayson Allen is a perfect Duke foil. If there was really some nuanced discussion to be had regarding his actions then by all means - we should have it. For the most part I just think people are having fun with it/being funny.
 

tims4wins

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I know, I just think people enjoy ripping on Duke and Grayson Allen is a perfect Duke foil. If there was really some nuanced discussion to be had regarding his actions then by all means - we should have it. For the most part I just think people are having fun with it/being funny.
Yeah, I agree with this. As a Duke fan I am pretty sick of co-workers saying "how bout your boy Grayson Allen" when I really haven't defended him at all. They just like ribbing on Duke, as does 99% of the country.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Duke is an extremely good school with a top tier law program, a top tier med school & a ton of outrageously successful academics that also has been one of the best basketball programs, if not the best, in the country, for 20 years.

It's fun to make fun of them.
 

tims4wins

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Duke is an extremely good school with a top tier law program, a top tier med school & a ton of outrageously successful academics that also has been one of the best basketball programs, if not the best, in the country, for 20 years.

It's fun to make fun of them.
Quoted for posterity
 

BigSoxFan

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Duke is an extremely good school with a top tier law program, a top tier med school & a ton of outrageously successful academics that also has been one of the best basketball programs, if not the best, in the country, for 20 years.

It's fun to make fun of them.
Especially since they have as many ACC wins as BC. Sad!
 

uk_sox_fan

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Not sad at all - I think BC could be respectable by as early as next year. GT is becoming a tough out as well which would mean no safe havens in the Conference at all. Good times!
 

BigSoxFan

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Not sad at all - I think BC could be respectable by as early as next year. GT is becoming a tough out as well which would mean no safe havens in the Conference at all. Good times!
I'm a BC fan and was being facetious (I know you wouldn't know that but underlines drocca's point).
 

Sox and Rocks

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Duke is an extremely good school with a top tier law program, a top tier med school & a ton of outrageously successful academics that also has been one of the best basketball programs, if not the best, in the country, for 20 years.

It's fun to make fun of them.
While this is all true,it neglects the best reasons to make fun of them: they have an asshole for a coach who disguises himself as anything but; their students sleep in tents and paint their bodies for games, a level of fanaticism that always deserves mockery. Above all, their fanbase is arrogant and insufferable, as evidenced throughout this thread.
 

IdiotKicker

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I'm sorry all I heard was "I hate success, fun, and anything good in the world. Please take pity on me and let me be part of your little club. Since you have so many trophies, share some with me."

We'll let you know.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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While this is all true,it neglects the best reasons to make fun of them: they have an asshole for a coach who disguises himself as anything but; their students sleep in tents and paint their bodies for games, a level of fanaticism that always deserves mockery. Above all, their fanbase is arrogant and insufferable, as evidenced throughout this thread.
I fucking hate them. Believe me, I am right there with you on all of this.

Except...the Coach K stuff. I don't think he's an asshole. I think he's very competitive and that comes across maybe assholish but it's what you want. His work in the community is strong, he spoke out against HB2 which meant a lot to me (especially because, famously, one of the many disagreements between Coach K and Dean was politics, Dean was very liberal). Anyway, Duke sucks.
 

tims4wins

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This is obviously very homer-ish. But before the tenting games - there were 2 each season when I was there - he held a Q&A with the students in Cameron the night before the game. No press was there. No cameras were there. This was before cell phones had video capability as well, so there wasn't much record of it. But man did he come across as one of the most genuine people I have ever heard speak.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is obviously very homer-ish. But before the tenting games - there were 2 each season when I was there - he held a Q&A with the students in Cameron the night before the game. No press was there. No cameras were there. This was before cell phones had video capability as well, so there wasn't much record of it. But man did he come across as one of the most genuine people I have ever heard speak.
Maybe so but he condones floor slapping...
 

Average Reds

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This is obviously very homer-ish. But before the tenting games - there were 2 each season when I was there - he held a Q&A with the students in Cameron the night before the game. No press was there. No cameras were there. This was before cell phones had video capability as well, so there wasn't much record of it. But man did he come across as one of the most genuine people I have ever heard speak.
Yeah, I bet he came across as really genuine when he called the student reporter for the Duke paper into his office, surrounded him with the basketball team and lit into him for 10 minutes, telling him he was "full of shit," that he needs to "get your head out of your ass and appreciate what's going on," etc., etc. (Note: he did this not to a member of the media, but to a Duke student, because that student had the unmitigated gall to give the team a "B+" mid-season grade in the student newspaper.)

Of course, when called on this later, Coach K denied it until it turned out that the student had taped the session. Oops.

I bet he came across as genuine when he threw his friend Mike Pressler under the bus before he realized that the Lacrosse gang-rape scandal was fabricated. That was fun.

I could go on and on - the examples are many - but the reason I went from being a huge Duke fan (I come from a three-generation Duke family) to a hater of the program is because Mike Krzyzewski is a self-righteous fraud and just an all-around bad guy.

I will acknowledge that this doesn't make him any different from 95% of all college coaches. And that's the point.
 

The Gray Eagle

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I'm sorry all I heard was "I hate success, fun, and anything good in the world. Please take pity on me and let me be part of your little club. Since you have so many trophies, share some with me."

We'll let you know.
I believe this is a direct quote lifted from the NYYFans message board circa 2003.
 

Sox and Rocks

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I'm sorry all I heard was "I hate success, fun, and anything good in the world. Please take pity on me and let me be part of your little club. Since you have so many trophies, share some with me."

We'll let you know.
You must not read well because here's what you should have got from this: "I wouldn't join you and the other losers in their tents if it was the last place on earth. You and your arrogant coach deserve each other and can go to hell. Enjoy your body paint. A pox on your house/tent for the rest of eternity.
 

IdiotKicker

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You must not read well because here's what you should have got from this: "I wouldn't join you and the other losers in their tents if it was the last place on earth. You and your arrogant coach deserve each other and can go to hell. Enjoy your body paint. A pox on your house/tent for the rest of eternity.
When the tents are the last place on Earth, try not to trip as you're running for safety. Shit is dangerous out there.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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No D.

2015 young team had on d but had 4 months to turn it around. This team has 4 weeks and are not playing themselves into a helpful #1-3 seed.
 

Greg29fan

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Love that win over a very good Florida State team. I still don't know how they lost to Georgia Tech, but the response since that couldn't have been better.
 

JShams

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Couple thoughts after tonight's game:

Pinson is not going to knock Williams out of the starting line up anytime soon. Williams is a much better shooter and playing better D than Pinson right now. If Pinson stops jacking up ill advised threes, that could change.

Luke Maye continues to play competent D1 minutes and is totally deserving of the playing time he's getting. If you had told me that at any time last year I may have died from laughter.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Pinson brought such huge energy but, more importantly, he was a terrific passer and rebounder tonight. I agree he jacked up an ill-advised 3, and he really always has, but they were giving him a lot of space with the zone and he made great decisions with the ball (other than that shot). He also drained one from the top of the key earlier.

Pinson is also a more versatile defender than Williams. On ball with a traditional two-guard, I think I go with Williams at this stage too (it's close though), but with Pinson in the game the switches are much easier and he can disrupt a small forward, allowing Jackson to essentially roam more and, critically, save some of his energy for the offensive end where he's needed.

All that said, I wouldn't start Pinson either. But he's a key piece to this team and played a tremendous game today. In 14 minutes he was 2-4 from the field, 2-4 from the line for 7 points. But he also had 5 rebounds (3 offensive), 5 assists and no turnovers. Williams, in 27 minutes, was 2-7 from the field (and the same percentage from 3 as Pinson at 33% but took 3 more) for six points (didn't make it to the line), 1 rebound, 4 assists and 2 steals. Williams played well, but I'd argue Pinson's minutes were more valuable tonight.

Crowd was great; this season at the Smith Center has been a fucking blast. Danny Ainge was there.
 

Greg29fan

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I was very, very immensely pleased how the guys handled the quick transition from an up-and-down high possession game on Saturday afternoon to playing Syracuse's zone tonight, especially since they only had a quick practice on Sunday b/c of the turnaround. The big guys rebounded the heck out of the ball on the offensive glass and Isaiah has had three straight good games.

Theo is limited offensively compared to Kenny, but I love Theo's energy, his passing (he's probably the best passer on the team) and his ability to guard anybody on the court. Shoot he was guarding that big Ojo kid from FSU late in the first half on Saturday.

And yes, Luke Maye has found a niche as a hard-working stretch-y four man who has certainly earned his PT. Grabbing 15 boards against FSU was eye-catching.

And congrats to Roy on win #800.
 
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DukeSox

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I am not encouraged by this season's UNC team. I expected 2017 to be a +2 in Duke's column. I fear it may be the opposite.
 

Greg29fan

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I mean Carolina was never going to be chopped liver bringing back three starters and their sixth man off a FF team. They had talent and motivation.

I thought they were certainly capable of getting back depending on how the draw worked out in the tournament.