Well they were a 56 win team last year, only a game behind the Cavs, and were playing like that and more earlier this year.
2016-2017 NBA Game Thread
- Thread starter Kliq
- Start date
Dog Days of January. I wouldn't place much weight on one little rough patch. They made the regular season leap last season and are in coast mode knowing that all that ultimately matters is how they execute in the spring.
I'm not too concerned about Love as he isn't necessary with Korver and Frye to play his role. The Cavs are all about LeBron and Kyrie when the chips are on the line. Those are the two who matter most although a healthy JR Smith does give them an added dimension in the backcourt.
They are so going to sign Stephenson. In fact, this has to happen. I cannot wait for LeBron to glower at him after he takes and misses a hero-ball shot at crunch time in the playoffs.
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Are the Miami Heat the worst team ever to win 9 games in a row? And when did Seth Curry turn into a poor man's Steph?
Last night was first time in league history that three male Curry family members made a three in the same evening.
Spo never got enough credit for the success of the LeBron teams. Sure a bag of basketballs could have won 50 games with their talent; but it's clear he is a very good NBA coach.
I dunno, but it seems like Seth morphing into a poor man's Steph may have inspired Steph himself to morph into a rich man's Steph. His last two games combined, per 36 minutes:
50.0 pts on *.958 true shooting*
8.5 rebounds
8.5 assists
1.8 turnovers
(+ one sore quad and one stomach flu)
He rather casually hit 11 threes though three quarters last night, then sat the entire 4th due to extended garbage time. Easily could have broken his own record (13) if the game had been halfway close, or if he had halfway cared about breaking the record. Made me think that eye-popping individual stats are not that all that hard to achieve if you making chasing them your #1 priority (cough*Westbrook*cough). Does anyone doubt that if Steph just dominated the ball every possession, launched it 30+ times a game, and didn't mind sacrificing some efficiency, turnovers, team harmony, and team wins, he could put up 40-10 pretty easily?
I suspect if I bring up Steph v. Westbrook, I'll get (rightly) called out for being a Steph fanboy, so let me throw this out there: why is Westbrook a more deserving MVP candidate than Isaiah Thomas? Given nearly identical scoring volume, give me the guy putting up .626 true shooting for a good team over the guy putting up .541 for a mediocre one. IT has a better ast/tov ratio, too, and (anecdotally) many more clutch, MVP-ish moments. On RW's side of the ledger, you get ... triple doubles and lots of Fantasy Points. Yay. (And I guess better D, but when have MVP voters ever cared about D?)
Edit: I suppose my vote goes to first three quarters Steph and 4th quarter IT.
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I don't think anyone here thinks Westbrook should win MVP, just that he will and he's not "undeserving" of it. It wouldn't be some huge travesty if he won.
edit: More on Seth though. Last 9 games: 32.2mpg 17.2ppg 3.9rpg, 2.7apg, 1.4spg, .513/.471/.692. 9/14 from FT line
edit: More on Seth though. Last 9 games: 32.2mpg 17.2ppg 3.9rpg, 2.7apg, 1.4spg, .513/.471/.692. 9/14 from FT line
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To me it's pretty much a travesty for anyone on a ~.500 team (OKC now -0.1 by point differential) to win MVP, no matter what kind of individual numbers they put up. Has it ever happened before?
I'm leaning towards Harden, but if the Rockets keep scuffling, I may start leaning towards Kawhi or (ugh) LeBron. And if the Cs or Raps can keep it close with Cle — or pass them — I may lean towards IT or Lowry. (I'm basically okay with SC and KD canceling each other out; it's been almost four years since someone other than those guys won).
FWIW: B-Ref's precedent-based MVP Tracker currently has Harden and Durant in a near dead-heat.
I'm leaning towards Harden, but if the Rockets keep scuffling, I may start leaning towards Kawhi or (ugh) LeBron. And if the Cs or Raps can keep it close with Cle — or pass them — I may lean towards IT or Lowry. (I'm basically okay with SC and KD canceling each other out; it's been almost four years since someone other than those guys won).
FWIW: B-Ref's precedent-based MVP Tracker currently has Harden and Durant in a near dead-heat.
Good thing the NBA doesn't award games thanks to point differential.
I think Westbrook should totally win the MVP. For starters, that is a garbage team without him; in the West they might win 20 games if you replaced him with say, Ricky Rubio, that team would be annihilated in the West, there is something like a -15 point difference between OKC with Westbrook and OKC without Westbrook. Complaining about his turnovers is akin to complaining that Ricky Henderson got thrown out stealing too many times; who cares? The guy's going to break the all-time record in usage rate; he is going to turn the ball over.
Westbrook is going to drag his shitty team to close to 50 wins in a difficult conference while setting the record for usage rate, having the best rebounding season any guard as ever had (let alone a PG) while also leading the league in scoring and is third in assists. We can talk about counting stats not telling the whole story, and that is fine, but holy fucking shit! In our rush to point out that a triple-double is simply a statistical anomaly that doesn't mean much, we are ignoring the fact that he is still having a legendary season. It is the best single-season effort since Jordan went 37-8-8 and dragged an incredibly atrocious Bulls team to 40 wins. It is like the RBI argument in baseball. If a guy has 150 RBIs we will poo-poo that as something that shouldn't get him the MVP simply because he led the league in that statistic. But at the same time, someone doesn't have 150 RBIs unless they have a great, great season.
Westbrook gets the award not because he is averaging a triple-double, but because he is having a mind-blowing season. Unlike any of the Warrior's players, LeBron ,Kawhi or even IT, he can't take a night off and expect his team to beat anyone. He has to go balls-to-the-wall every single minute he is on the court. If he was having a season like Boogie Cousins where the numbers were big but the team was still in the basement that is one thing, but OKC is going to make the playoffs and be a problem for someone. I don't think they are beating GS or SA in a series, but they can be competitive. SRN is acting like you need to be on a 55+ win team to be considered for MVP, which is ridiculous.
I think Westbrook should totally win the MVP. For starters, that is a garbage team without him; in the West they might win 20 games if you replaced him with say, Ricky Rubio, that team would be annihilated in the West, there is something like a -15 point difference between OKC with Westbrook and OKC without Westbrook. Complaining about his turnovers is akin to complaining that Ricky Henderson got thrown out stealing too many times; who cares? The guy's going to break the all-time record in usage rate; he is going to turn the ball over.
Westbrook is going to drag his shitty team to close to 50 wins in a difficult conference while setting the record for usage rate, having the best rebounding season any guard as ever had (let alone a PG) while also leading the league in scoring and is third in assists. We can talk about counting stats not telling the whole story, and that is fine, but holy fucking shit! In our rush to point out that a triple-double is simply a statistical anomaly that doesn't mean much, we are ignoring the fact that he is still having a legendary season. It is the best single-season effort since Jordan went 37-8-8 and dragged an incredibly atrocious Bulls team to 40 wins. It is like the RBI argument in baseball. If a guy has 150 RBIs we will poo-poo that as something that shouldn't get him the MVP simply because he led the league in that statistic. But at the same time, someone doesn't have 150 RBIs unless they have a great, great season.
Westbrook gets the award not because he is averaging a triple-double, but because he is having a mind-blowing season. Unlike any of the Warrior's players, LeBron ,Kawhi or even IT, he can't take a night off and expect his team to beat anyone. He has to go balls-to-the-wall every single minute he is on the court. If he was having a season like Boogie Cousins where the numbers were big but the team was still in the basement that is one thing, but OKC is going to make the playoffs and be a problem for someone. I don't think they are beating GS or SA in a series, but they can be competitive. SRN is acting like you need to be on a 55+ win team to be considered for MVP, which is ridiculous.
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No, but it's a pretty reliable measure of "true" team quality, and (thus) a better predictor than W-L. I'd expect to OKC to regress towards .500 over the last 32 games, especially with Kanter out.
I'd be more comfortable with Westy as MVP if he could carry his team to, say, 48-52 wins, but I don't see that happening.
Haha, I'm not "acting like that" — I said I thought it would be a travesty for him to get it if his team is around .500. If he could make his team significantly better than that, I'd be much more supportive of his candidacy (for all the reasons you note).
Basketball is a team sport in which the goal is winning games. MVPs have historically been awarded to players on good-to-great teams -- hence RW's appearance at #6 on B-Ref's neutral MVP tracker.
OKC has been +4.5 points better than their opponents per 100 possessions with RW on the floor, which is pretty good but not great. It's definitely much more impressive when you note that his team has been an awful -11.7 per 100 with him off the floor; but as I've said before: "player whose mediocre team sucks the worst without him" needn't be the overriding selection criterion, nor has it historically been.
Neither Kawhi nor Harden nor Lowry has world-beaters for teammates, yet their teams have been +8.4 and +7.7 and +9.3 with them on the floor, respectively.
FWIW, I strongly doubt that OKC will be a "problem for someone" (likely the Spurs at this point) in the playoffs. There's certainly been little evidence in either of their GSW matchups that they'd be anything but road kill for the Warriors. But of course, our predictions about how problematic they may or may not be in the playoffs are not relevant selection criteria.
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If OKC wins 40-43 games, he probably doesn't win MVP anyway. Up until 3 games ago, OKC was on pace for 49 wins. Now it's 46. I'm not sure how a 46-36 team is a .500 team, but ok. They aren't going to look at expected w/l record, they are going to look at actual w/l record. I'd personally be going with Harden but I have no issue with Westbrook winning.
Westbrook definitely has the worst cast of that crew though, and it isn't particularly close
That's not the best way to project, though. Point differential is more predictive than W-L. Even ignoring the Kanter injury: -0.1 PD equates to a roughly .500 team, so you should project roughly 16-16 from here on out, which would get them to 44-38.
Subtract a game for the absence of Kanter (their only legit high-volume scorer outside of RW) and you're at 43 wins, a number by which you say "Westbrook won't win anyway." Which was kind of my point.
Is it different than baseball? Because actual win lose record for the current season is far more predictive for w-l record going forward than Expected Win-Loss record. Scoring differential is more likely to predict record next year.
Howard is still pretty good in the 5 games / year that he actually tries
Indeed. Tonight was circled on his calendar and when Patrick Beverley started in, Howard got pissed and gave him a shiver screen (sorry Kliq, I know you find these have no place in basketball these days. You should tell Beverley's teammates too!). It was game on.
On another note, I know we are a very biased group here in Ye Old Port Cellar but is there any better league than the NBA? Rivalries galore, exceptionally high levels of play, exciting young stars, the embracement of social media etc. When you compare this to the white-washed NFL shit going on this week, its not even close. Right now the NBA is the consistently best US-based professional sports product on the market.
Agreed one hundred percent. Hard to even imagine given that the Patriots (!) are again in the Super Bowl, but I feel the same way.
Definitely. Case in point: The 76ers are 18-31, and not only fans but also unbiased observers are excited about both their prospects and a lot of the things that they do on the court. And they are not the only team in that category. How many sub-500 NFL, NHL, or MLB teams could reasonably claim to be showing real promise at their game?
I've always been an NBA guy but I am amazed at how nicely they have fixed the product. My 76 year old dad was questioning the plethora of 3s but relented when I reminded him of the Bull-Knicks-Heat slogs of the 90s. Guys like Curry and IT would have struggled in those days and now they are about the most fun going. The world wide appeal of the game and the league will also pay dividends for years to come.
The only downside is that the playoffs look like a foregone conclusion for GSW v. CLE again, which has given this regular season a sense of just marking time.
Imagine if the NBA awarded free throws every time Adam Silver thought a player was celebrating too much after, say, a big dunk?
On any given year, 3-4 teams have a serious shot at the title and that has always been the case. It's nothing new. I would argue that the rest of the playoffs are far more open than they used to be. No one would be totally shocked if Chicago beat Boston, Indiana beat Toronto, if the Grizz beat the Rockets. And while this years 8 seed in the west is terrible, in recent years that wasn't the case. Plus a lot of the fringe playoff teams have superstar players and with the 3 point shot playing a bigger factor than ever before... it gives lesser teams a fighting chance like it does in college. Granted, they need to win 4 games.
I think we are most likely going to see one of GSW/SA vs Cle, but I don't think Cleveland is going 11-0 in the East this year and while not likely, I wouldn't be in total awe if the Jazz or Rockets made the Western Conference finals. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Denver or Portland win a game or two against GS either. Denver has an emerging star in Jokic and goes 10 deep while Portland has Lilliard and McCollum. I also wouldn't be totally floored if a fully healthy Toronto or Boston team pulled off an upset against Cleveland to make the finals. I'd be totally shocked if the West isn't represented by GS or the Spurs though. If the Rockets hit like 40% of their 3's, maybe.
edit: A GS/Denver match up would be really fun to watch. Since January, Denver has averaged 116ppg. Portland can put up some points too for that matter.
Nice piece on Luke Walton and how he first learned about the "beautiful game" by watching the '86 Celtics (and how, like Popovich, he watches the Kerr Warriors with that same aesthetic appreciation):
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/presents3/how-celtics-taught-lakers-coach-luke-walton-love-basketball
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/presents3/how-celtics-taught-lakers-coach-luke-walton-love-basketball
I'm not sure that's true (is it, SoSH stat guys?) but I'd guess both PD and W-L have their flaws in terms of predictiveness. With only 32 games left, I think they're also both very blunt tools. If one really wanted to project accurately, one would want look at all the specific opponents, opponent injuries, home v. road, B2Bs, etc. One would also want to factor in the 20+ games without Kanter (his poor D may offset his great O, but he's still a key rotation player).
I'm too lazy to do all that so I'mma just say 44-38, give or take.
Looking around the league and noticed Devin Booker's last 15 games. 37.7mpg, 25.0 points, 2.7 rebounds, 3.2 assists. .457/.440/.840. He turned 20 in October. For the year, 20.8, 2.9, 3.2 on .421/.360/.831. If we redo that draft atm, does he go 4th or 5th? Towns, Porzingis, Turner, Russell, Booker?
They just gotta do something to control instant replay, which IMO should be basically never used until the latter half of the 4th quarter. There's just no individual call in a basketball game that matters enough to justify the delay.
Yeah, the 90s were tough to watch - in fact, I almost stopped watching the NBA in those years. The holding and grabbing that occurred back then was more like football than basketball, and Curry and IT would have been hurt every season, particularly IT given how many times he goes into the lane every game.
The NBA really did fix their game.
Loved this article. It is and was beautiful basketball!
Per above, I'd take Booker over Russell but maybe that's just me
And gets the 3x2 - 20/13/11.
And MIL has lost 10 of their last 11. What has happened to that team?
The league also eschewed rangy bigs, even though a lot of those guys could shoot (witness the 1994-1997 era).
No depth. Middleton is supposed to play a game or two before AS break so that should help, but he'll be limited.
T'wolves announce that Zach LaVine has a torn ACL in his left knee and will have season-ending surgery. #Wolvespick
This sucks. I was hoping these guys could continue to play and gel into a cohesive unit for the rest of the season.
Whiteside had 17 points and 11 rebounds... in the 1st quarter. At 27/19 with 3 blocks on 13/16 shooting atm. Beating the Sixers 84-63 with 3 to go in the 3rd. Well on their way to 10 in a row.
I think it was HRB and I were talking about how it seems a lot of guys that stay all four years and were good in college often get undervalued and then they suddenly end up being good in the NBA. When you consider the second round of the draft is filled with draft and stash guys or potential-laden long shots; I think a real market efficiency can be found; just look at Malcom Brogdan.
They better start playing better or they risk falling to 6th place, which means (most likely) playing the Wizards on the road in the first round.
Yeah here it is..
OMG!
LeBron (travels) misses easy layin late in the game then makes insane off glass 3 on a full court pass catch and shoot. Ties it up, on to overtime. Unreal.
OMG!
LeBron (travels) misses easy layin late in the game then makes insane off glass 3 on a full court pass catch and shoot. Ties it up, on to overtime. Unreal.