2015 Michigan Football: Getting Real Real, Real Fast
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There was an interesting segment on Toucher and Rich this morning - not related to UM, but it got me to thinking - about what influence a coach really has on a team. They were speaking more about the NFL, and noted things like the mind behind the various O and D schemes, instruction from position coaches, the players still being the ones that have to execute, etc., but they wondered aloud whether a head coach really has that much influence on the quality of the product on the field. Again, the NFL, but they pointed to the change in the Atlanta Falcons from last year to this with the change in HCs from Mike Smith to Dan Quinn. The difference has been dramatic, with realy very little change in personnel.
If there is an influence to be imposed, I would think it would be more noticeable at the college level, just given the relative level of player maturity and experience.
Whatever it may be, Harbaugh certainly seems to have brought it with him. This has been a complete and remarkable transformation in my eyes.
If there is an influence to be imposed, I would think it would be more noticeable at the college level, just given the relative level of player maturity and experience.
Whatever it may be, Harbaugh certainly seems to have brought it with him. This has been a complete and remarkable transformation in my eyes.
I'll type a longer post later (unless someone else, like WBV, does first), but that is certainly the case and the players have not been shy about talking about the Harbaugh effect.
I've heard a lot of players talk about the difference with the new staff. It's a lot more professional. The coaches create a ton of competition, but they also put the players in a position to win. The practices are longer and they're physical. You can see it on the field. Michigan isn't getting pushed around (pushed a little bit? yes). Also, all of the players know where they stand on the depth chart. Michigan might be a bit vague in terms of who is on the public depth chart, but the players know. This was not the case with the previous staff where a player would play one week then not the next. The biggest thing is that they're putting the players in a position to succeed. Jabrill talked about this a little bit:
The coaches do their homework and make sure the players know everything that they can teach them. They try to get players in a position to make plays. It's hiding weaknesses and playing to strengths. It's not surprising that there has been a turnaround, but it is a bit surprising that Michigan, especially the defense, has looked as good as it has.
In Ann Arbor this week for the first time in a long time. One daughter checking out graduate programs, one looking at undergrad and all three of us going to the game today.
Hopefully they put on a good performance. Go Blue.
Hopefully they put on a good performance. Go Blue.
Have fun AR! That place rocks when they beat a ranked opponent. Grad School in Ann Arbor is pretty excellent as well 
Well, this game isn't on TV here, but that sure isn't the score I was expecting to see after 3 quarters when I woke up from my hangover nap.
This team is turning out to be pretty okay, huh?
This team is turning out to be pretty okay, huh?
First team since the Alabama National Champs in 2012 to go 5 straight halves without allowing a point. They are at 6 now.
38 points against a team that allowed 35 in its first 5 games is pretty impressive.
38 points against a team that allowed 35 in its first 5 games is pretty impressive.
Troll the BC thread, my ass. You have no idea what it's like over there. I could show you every single time in the last three years when there's any reasoned discussion over there I was involved in, that some asshole over there threw out a, "yeah LOL but Michigan SUX and will never beat URBAN." They are the absolute shittiest fanbase on this board, and make the jets threads look like MIT PHD theses. It's great that a few of the mods are BC fanboys so that when they actually do troll it gets a pat on the back, but they all deserve the absolute shit they are rolling around in.tims4wins said:
I would never initiate a comparison between the programs, because BC is a joke.
Waaahhhh, a couple of BC fans made a couple jokes about my Michigan team a long time ago, so now I'll show them.
I hope you know how ridiculous you sound.
Oh, and great win today. I was excited about the way Michigan played in the Utah game (and a loss to Utah isn't looking all that bad at this point), and think that as long as Rudock continues to manage games well, and not make big mistakes, they'll continue to win. The entire Big Ten is really interesting this year, and with Iowa jumping out to 5-0, and impressively so, it's going to be a really fun couple of months following this conference. If Nebraska and Wisconsin didn't have a couple of early losses, the Big Ten might be the one with 7-8 teams in the top 25 instead of the SEC. Shit, even Minnesota is playing some good football.
I hope you know how ridiculous you sound.
Oh, and great win today. I was excited about the way Michigan played in the Utah game (and a loss to Utah isn't looking all that bad at this point), and think that as long as Rudock continues to manage games well, and not make big mistakes, they'll continue to win. The entire Big Ten is really interesting this year, and with Iowa jumping out to 5-0, and impressively so, it's going to be a really fun couple of months following this conference. If Nebraska and Wisconsin didn't have a couple of early losses, the Big Ten might be the one with 7-8 teams in the top 25 instead of the SEC. Shit, even Minnesota is playing some good football.
Would have posted real time updates from the game but 110,000 fans really suck up wireless capacity, so there was no service at the stadium.
Anyway, that was awesome. I'll post pictures tomorrow if possible.
Anyway, that was awesome. I'll post pictures tomorrow if possible.
Long time ago = a month, and I am not the one who whines to mods or (as a mod) gets all weepy.Deathofthebambino said:
The fact is, a couple of years ago, some of the BC fans stated that Addazio's recruiting was a sea change over what they had seen with Spaziano. I noted very mildly that from an outsider, it seemed that the recruiting classes were remarkably similar to Spaz's first couple. Despite having NOTHING to do with Michigan, that was responded to with essentially, "MICHIGAN SUXX." Then, another one of the genius BC fans stated that Dazz was a legit candidate to replace Hoke, and that either way, he'd be at a similar program as head coach within a couple of years. THEN, after beating one of its two annual FCS foes and Michigan's loss to Utah, another of the BC faithful decided to beat his chest. Interspersed, a couple of the other BC bros opined that Michigan was not, and would not be soon, "relevant."
I really don't give a shit how "ridiculous" I sound. If you're a fan of an insignificant program and you want to throw stones at a real program, you shouldn't cry like a baby when your team is exposed as the joke it is.
Hurts when the guy you're responding to didn't refer to the team as "we,"doesn't it?
I don't give a shit. My self-esteem doesn't suffer when Michigan goes 5-7. The question is why some of the shitty mods on this board can't handle someone criticizing BC or its coach.
I don't give a shit. My self-esteem doesn't suffer when Michigan goes 5-7. The question is why some of the shitty mods on this board can't handle someone criticizing BC or its coach.
WayBackVazquez said:
LOL.
But hey, as long as you don't care how ridiculous you sound, it's no sweat off my back.
Yeah, I don't care how ridiculous I sound to you. Everyone in that thread can jerk off to Adazzio's recruiting of the Greater Boston League and that one time they beat USC until the cows come home. At least they've got basketball.Deathofthebambino said:
Sagarin has Michigan #3 in his blended ranking, MSU #39. He'd have Michigan a favorite ranging from 7 points in one of his systems to 21 (LOL) in another.
I'm guessing the actual Vegas lines will open somewhere around Michigan -5.
Up to #14 in the Coaches Poll. MSU down one slot to #4.
Up to #12 in the AP. MSU down to #7.
I'm guessing the actual Vegas lines will open somewhere around Michigan -5.
Up to #14 in the Coaches Poll. MSU down one slot to #4.
Up to #12 in the AP. MSU down to #7.
bowiac said:
What casino has lines out already? I don't think the Wynn posts lines until later today, and I think most come out tomorrow.
This should be an unbelievable weekend for the recruits making official visits, which include the #1 ranked TE, Isaac Nauta out of Florida. Safety Lamar Jackson and WR Dylan Crawford are also expected.
Feels like it has been a long time since the Michigan St game was actually important. This should be a fun one.
One narrative I'm not really seeing is the "Harbaugh is winning with Hoke's players" idea. This was fairly prevalent during Hoke's first season, as people talked about how Hoke rode RichRod's guys (mostly Denard) to a miracle first season. For instance: "Give credit to Hoke -- and Rich-Rod -- for Michigan's success", after Michigan went to 6-0 in 2011. I saw the first mention of that this morning on twitter, as someone suggested Hoke should get a DL coaching gig as result of what's happening, but generally, been pretty quiet.
I can sort of see why:
- Denard was more identifiably a RichRod player than anyone on Michigan is a Hoke player.
- A lot of people didn't think highly of Hoke in the first place, so people were looking for an explanation other than regression to the mean.
- Harbaugh is more or less universally regarded as "The Savior", so nobody wants to suggest Hoke had much to do with it.
Not that surprising perhaps, but it's an interesting contrast to me at the least.
I can sort of see why:
- Denard was more identifiably a RichRod player than anyone on Michigan is a Hoke player.
- A lot of people didn't think highly of Hoke in the first place, so people were looking for an explanation other than regression to the mean.
- Harbaugh is more or less universally regarded as "The Savior", so nobody wants to suggest Hoke had much to do with it.
Not that surprising perhaps, but it's an interesting contrast to me at the least.
I feel like I've seen quite a few articles recently that talk about this, though not necessarily as a positive. I think many of us, fans and media believed Hoke did a good job recruiting, which made the job he was doing teaching and preparing and in-game all the more unacceptable. And it's why so many of us (and certainly me) expected a significant turnaround in year one.
The exact narrative you're talking about doesn't generally accompany guys with proven track records for both coaching and recruiting like Harbaugh. That is, you don't hear people saying "well, yeah, Urban is doing a good job with the guys that Tressel and Fickel recruited, but how will he do when he has to bring in his guys?" Because there's a universal belief that Harbaugh/Meyer would be at least as successful recruiting his own players.
The exact narrative you're talking about doesn't generally accompany guys with proven track records for both coaching and recruiting like Harbaugh. That is, you don't hear people saying "well, yeah, Urban is doing a good job with the guys that Tressel and Fickel recruited, but how will he do when he has to bring in his guys?" Because there's a universal belief that Harbaugh/Meyer would be at least as successful recruiting his own players.
This...and I think it's especially true when Harbaugh's QB1 is a guy who lost his job at Iowa. Remains to be seen what kind of overall talent Harbaugh can mold when he's the recruiter, but I think we can safely say that he'll have a higher pedigree player at the most important position on the field most years.WayBackVazquez said:
It should also be said that one of the main differences is how the programs were trending under the former coaches. Whether you believe Rich Rod was on the path to success in the Big Ten or not, his record improved every year he was with Michigan. With Hoke, the record was deteriorating every year. With Hoke winning that first year, there were some murmurs that he was just doing what Rich Rod was on track to do. If Hoke was still at Michigan, does anyone believe Michigan would be this good? While Harbaugh is technically winning with Hoke's players, he is getting a million times more out of all of them than Hoke did or would.
And I agree with the Harbaugh would do at least as good with "his guys" assessment.
And I agree with the Harbaugh would do at least as good with "his guys" assessment.
I remember players on the DL saying they felt better prepared in terms of basic technique in '11. Other than that, most of the year felt a bit fortunate.
Rumors starting to gain steam that Harbaugh & Co. are about to flip OSU commit and #1 ranked RB recruit Kareem Walker who visited last weekend.
The RB that Ohio State offered in response to Walker taking that visit just de-committed from Wisconsin. The coaches may have to be aggressive on Walker, but these developments are good.WayBackVazquez said:
From watching Walker's HL, I don't think that he's a burner, but he is very good at throwing defenders off his scent. He has this nice way of dipping his shoulder and getting defenders off balance and he just glides right past them. He's pretty good at setting up his blocks too. I think that's what stood out to me more than anything.
Anyone got some good MSU jokes?
What’s the difference between puppies and MSU fans? Puppies eventually grow up and stop whining.
What do UM and MSU students have in common? They both got in to MSU.
What does a MSU grad call a Wolverine after graduation? Boss.
What’s the difference between East Lansing and yogurt? Yogurt has an active living culture.
Finally,
“If you can’t go to college, go to State [clap, clap], If you can’t go to college go to State [clap, clap].”
[SIZE=11pt]“Can’t Read, Can’t Write” riffing off of “Go Green, Go White” is always fun.[/SIZE]
What’s the difference between puppies and MSU fans? Puppies eventually grow up and stop whining.
What do UM and MSU students have in common? They both got in to MSU.
What does a MSU grad call a Wolverine after graduation? Boss.
What’s the difference between East Lansing and yogurt? Yogurt has an active living culture.
Finally,
“If you can’t go to college, go to State [clap, clap], If you can’t go to college go to State [clap, clap].”
[SIZE=11pt]“Can’t Read, Can’t Write” riffing off of “Go Green, Go White” is always fun.[/SIZE]
Thought Bill C had a good piece on narratives vs numbers for this game:
EDIT: To add, something like 2/3 of the betting action has been on Sparty, but Vegas has moved the line towards Michigan, suggesting that they're confident in Michigan's chances. The advanced stats have us as a 14-21 point winner. These things are getting me anxious because I want to see it soooooo bad.
This paragraph stuck with me especially because it's my feeling. I think that Michigan has been the much better team this season, but they've got to prove it on the field. There's a tension for me until it happens. I know some are more confident, but I am just burning on the inside right now.
EDIT: To add, something like 2/3 of the betting action has been on Sparty, but Vegas has moved the line towards Michigan, suggesting that they're confident in Michigan's chances. The advanced stats have us as a 14-21 point winner. These things are getting me anxious because I want to see it soooooo bad.
Has anyone seen anything about Rudock's play for Iowa in cold weather games? Forecast for Saturday calls for highs of about 50, and I think I read 10-15 mph winds. Obviously it was windy at Maryland, but I don't think nearly as cold.
I'm headed to Ann Arbor tomorrow for the first time this season, and have not been this fired up for a game in years. Been a tough week at work.
I'm headed to Ann Arbor tomorrow for the first time this season, and have not been this fired up for a game in years. Been a tough week at work.
Just looking at his game log for Iowa from 2013-2014 his November stats really aren't much different than his September-October stats. Don't think it will be an issue.
sachmoney said:
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Sports books make their money on the vig, not by being on one side of the bet. So any movement in the line is a function of oddsmakers trying to reach equilibrium. (As close to a 50/50 split of action as possible.) If the line is moving towards Michigan, it should be a sign that the general public is confident in Michigan's chances.
Any source for that info?
TheYaz67 said:
It's all in fun. I'd be glad to hear MSU jokes at the expense of UM too. It's rivalry week fergodssake.
Anyway, I'll echo what Sach said. On paper, I like UM's chances. They have consistently outperformed my expectations overall each game (except for Utah) and the D and ST have been top notch. MSU's run game has been underwhelming this year and the O-line is banged up, so I could see them trying to pass to setup the run. UM's biggest weakness on D is short and intermediate routes over the middle. UM defends screens and deep balls very well. UM's run defense is stout up the middle and generally good on the edges, although Bolden can be attacked. Burbridge is a legitimate threat on the outside, but Lewis is having an insane year. Should be a fun matchup between those two. Overall though, I like UM's chances to get home quickly and move Cook off the spot. If however, Cook has success over the middle forcing Morgan, Peppers, Bolden, etc. to respect it, that could lead to more success running the ball.
When UM has the ball, I expect them to start slow because they will be probing the MSU defense, which while underperforming this year so far, is talented. I'm not too sophisticated with football strategy, but it seems like Harbaugh's offensive strategy is to find the weakness in a defense by messing up run fits (gaps), frequently changing the point of attack, and identifying what the defense (often a specific player) is overlooking or overplaying. The best example of this is the emergence of AJ Williams as a receiving threat and the increased use of FBs. LBs see Williams and typically assume he's staying in to block, so when he chips or straight releases, he's often unaccounted for. I guess you'd rather have him beat you than Butt. UM's offensive alignments and shifts often will indicate a TB run or pass, and then there will be a quick FB dive. Nevertheless, I expect MSU to have its best game of the season led by their very talented D line. UM has figured out how to get the ball to their explosive players (e.g. jet sweeps to Chesson, screens to Butt, etc.) and those are quick hitting plays. If MSU is able to tamp down on those, the onus (gulp!) will be on Rudock stretching the D over the top to Darboh, Chesson, et al.
Special teams are an advantage to UM. Peppers and Chesson as KR and Peppers as a PR are exceptional. The Aussie has been very impressive on punts. Advanced stats have respect for MSU, but like UM even more. It should be mentioned that MSU has had a great season so far in terms of turnovers, while UM has been somewhat unlucky so far. Makes the results to date a bit more eye opening IMHO though.
Again, I expect MSU to play their best game of the season. This should be a close, low-scoring affair. HOWEVA, I think the Harbaugh train rolls and he throws in some hijinks that end up being the difference. 23-20 UM win.
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