2015 Dolphins: Fire the Lazor!

mcaqua

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I just think that having far and away the best quarterback in a bad division makes Pagano look better than he really is.
No offense, but this coming from a fan of a team that managed its first win against Houston in franchise history this season. 1-7.

A powerhouse the AFC South is not, but let's stop discounting his success in the division. Particularly when we're discussing an organization that also happens to be 1-7 in their last 8 divisional tilts in the AFC East.
 

DJnVa

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I don't know - maybe his .646 career winning percentage. Or his team's continuous improvement though the duration of his tenure in Indy (excluding this season, where they still managed to win 8 games despite being forced to play a 40-year-old at QB for 11 games).

And he managed to accomplish it all with a complete dolt picking his groceries.
I'm not the NFL, I don't give him credit for the games he missed.

The last 3 seasons he went 11-5, 11-5, and 8-8. That's 30-18. He was 16-2 against his shitty division and 14-16 against everyone else.
 

mcaqua

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I'm not the NFL, I don't give him credit for the games he missed.

The last 3 seasons he went 11-5, 11-5, and 8-8. That's 30-18. He was 16-2 against his shitty division and 14-16 against everyone else.
I know you're positioning that split between divisional record and the remainder of his tenure as some sort of damning punch line, but I guess I just don't see it. His team's played .500 football against the rest of the league in years where they were playing a first place schedule. And they HAMMERED the shitty teams in their division. Truth be told, Philbin might still be coaching in Miami if he were able to beat Miami's shitty divisional foes. And what's more? We'd undoubtedly have a couple of playoff appearances since 2008.
 

DJnVa

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I know you're positioning that split between divisional record and the remainder of his tenure as some sort of damning punch line, but I guess I just don't see it. His team's played .500 football against the rest of the league in years where they were playing a first place schedule. And they HAMMERED the shitty teams in their division. Truth be told, Philbin might still be coaching in Miami if he were able to beat shitty divisional teams foes and we'd undoubtedly have a couple of playoff appearances since 2008.
Hey, I hope you get your wish.
 

soxfan121

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Is it me or is this a pretty pathetic group of candidates?

Mike Smith
Mike Shanahan
Adam Gase
Doug Marrone
Teryl Austin
Josh McDaniels
Matt Patricia
Anthony Lynn
Teryl Austin, most recently the Lions defensive coordinator, is an underrated candidate. He knows how to manage your highest paid player. He is innovative within the confines of his personnel; the Lions have had some blowouts under Austin, but it's usually been a bad matchup + injuries. And when they look good, they can look real good. Paired with a strong offensive coordinator/ex-head coach and you've got a chance at a home run.
 

mwonow

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If I were a Dolphin fan, I'd be more excited about Coughlin than Shanny or the coordinators. More to the point, if I'm a "win now" owner, a 69 year old guy would strike me as a guy with a compatible timeline
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I moved to Miami 4 years ago. I had an interesting train ride in this morning. I was sitting next to someone on a supposed conference call. There was some audible information which actually mentions how dysfunctional this organization is. All this is supposedly so take everything with a grain of salt.

Dolphins contacted Patriots 10 days ago regarding McD. (I'm not sure if that is even legal, I guess maybe since they have an interm coach??) If he wants the job then McD is their guy. (I assume that McD is McDaniels) Belichick would give him a great reference.

Dolphins #1 target last offseason was Martavis Bryant and will be again this year. Offered a 2nd for him Draft Night and was laughed off the phone. Offered again during training camp and again was laughed off. The guy mentions "I told Hickey that he wasn't the same guy as Wallace" "He had reservations getting him" Not sure exactly what that last part meant. (I'd like to mention that this is the part where I actually started to think maybe there was something to this.)

In regards to Shanny there is simply due dillegence. Its coming from ownership because they just paid a ton of money for Tannehill and the next head coach must have experience with high level QBs.

The only player they aren't mad with is Tannehill.

Dan Campbell is a great guy but a dumb blonde when it comes to x's and o's. Once again reiterated that McD would be a great fit.

Again, I'm just throwing all this out there. Would be interesting to see if any of this comes true.
 

sodenj5

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Dolphins contacted Patriots 10 days ago regarding McD. (I'm not sure if that is even legal, I guess maybe since they have an interm coach??) If he wants the job then McD is their guy. (I assume that McD is McDaniels) Belichick would give him a great reference.

Dolphins #1 target last offseason was Martavis Bryant and will be again this year. Offered a 2nd for him Draft Night and was laughed off the phone. Offered again during training camp and again was laughed off. The guy mentions "I told Hickey that he wasn't the same guy as Wallace" "He had reservations getting him" Not sure exactly what that last part meant. (I'd like to mention that this is the part where I actually started to think maybe there was something to this.)

In regards to Shanny there is simply due dillegence. Its coming from ownership because they just paid a ton of money for Tannehill and the next head coach must have experience with high level QBs.

The only player they aren't mad with is Tannehill.

Dan Campbell is a great guy but a dumb blonde when it comes to x's and o's. Once again reiterated that McD would be a great fit.

Again, I'm just throwing all this out there. Would be interesting to see if any of this comes true.
Hm, so the Martavis Bryant thing may have made sense before they traded away Wallace and acquired Kenny Stills. Getting Bryant now would seem unnecessary.

I think it was pretty much known that Campbell doesn't know the X's and O's that well. He's never been a coordinator or head coach previously. He appointed Darren Rizzi his assistant HC to help him with that stuff.

I'm not over the moon about McDaniels. Sure, he may have learned from his Denver mistakes, but some people are just really good coordinators and not great coaches. How many people from the Belichick coaching tree have gone on to become successful head coaches? Does Romeo Crennel or Eric Mangini or Bill O'Brien or Charlie Weis inspire much confidence? O'Brien might be the best of the bunch and he's 9-7 the last two years in an awful division and his team gave up over 500 yards and 44 points to this awful Dolphins team.
 

dwainw

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If I were a Dolphin fan, I'd be more excited about Coughlin than Shanny or the coordinators. More to the point, if I'm a "win now" owner, a 69 year old guy would strike me as a guy with a compatible timeline
If Stephen Ross is currently still a "win now" owner then let's just refer to him as "wish now."

I respect Coughlin, but the guy isn't just old--he needs some rest. Meanwhile, it took this team more than two painful seasons to gradually dismantle the entire management structure. With the salary situation being what it is, they'll need at least that much time to re-construct a realistically competitive team, and a coaching staff with the energy and talent to see it through. I don't know who that is, but I don't think it's Tom Coughlin.
 

mcaqua

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Obrien has accomplished more than joe Philbin ever did in his time in miami.
Who is arguing that Philbin is an NFL caliber head coach? Actually screw that, who is arguing that Phibin has any coaching qualities that the NFL might find redeeming at this point? The fact that you're arguing he's a more accomplished coach than Philbin is quite literally the faintest of praise.

Additionally, are we to conclude that the 'shitty division' meme that gets tossed around here with reckless abandon when discussing the Colts, and their complete annihilation of their divisional foes in the AFC South in recent years, doesn't somehow also invalidate O'Brien's accomplishments at the helm of Houston? Does that criticism only apply to Pagano?
 

soxfan121

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Who is arguing that Philbin is an NFL caliber head coach?
That Philbin was brought back after the bullying scandal, and then AGAIN after missing the playoffs...speaks to Ross's decision-making in a bad way. And Mike Tannenbaum's idea of a good coach is Rex Ryan.

ETA: Your second paragraph is an excellent point, but I ain't getting involved in that discussion.
 

mcaqua

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That Philbin was brought back after the bullying scandal, and then AGAIN after missing the playoffs...speaks to Ross's decision-making in a bad way. And Mike Tannenbaum's idea of a good coach is Rex Ryan.
You're moving the goalposts here though. The subject is whether or not O'Brien is a worthwhile head coach. My point being there is in fact a level (or multiple levels) of talent where a coaching candidate could out-accomplish Philbin during their tenure and still not be considered a legitimate NFL caliber head coach.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think the crappy division thing is true of O'Brien and Pagano, obviously, though not wholly equally. Pagano has a huge leg up with Luck (as does any coach with a top 5-ish QB), and he also doesn't have to play against Indy (and that top 5ish QB) twice a year, whereas O'Brien does. So, there is a material difference in the 'competition' each coach encounters just at the front of the roster.
 

mcaqua

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I think the crappy division thing is true of O'Brien and Pagano, obviously, though not wholly equally. Pagano has a huge leg up with Luck (as does any coach with a top 5-ish QB), and he also doesn't have to play against Indy (and that top 5ish QB) twice a year, whereas O'Brien does. So, there is a material difference in the 'competition' each coach encounters just at the front of the roster.
But we're discussing the accomplishments of O'Brien in Houston. The only accomplishment of O'Brien to speak of during his tenure in Houston to date has been a divisional title in 2015. A year in which his greatest threat to the divisional crown played 11 games with a 40-year old QB (including both match-ups against his Houston Texans). So I guess I'm just not sure how Andrew Luck is all that relevant to the discussion at this point.
 

soxfan121

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You're moving the goalposts here though. The subject is whether or not O'Brien is a worthwhile head coach. My point being there is in fact a level (or multiple levels) of talent where a coaching candidate could out-accomplish Philbin during their tenure and still not be considered a legitimate NFL caliber head coach.
No, I just don't give a crap about the O'Brien-Pagano discussion.

The goalposts are whether the Dolphins can make a good coach hire. The evidence they won't make the right decision is that Ross thought Philbin was a good NFL coach for two full offseasons after Philbin proved to be a clownshoes-wearing bumblefuck and Tannenbaum's last hire loves shoes.

Continue with the BOB-Pagano battle royale.
 

mcaqua

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No, I just don't give a crap about the O'Brien-Pagano discussion.

The goalposts are whether the Dolphins can make a good coach hire. The evidence they won't make the right decision is that Ross thought Philbin was a good NFL coach for two full offseasons after Philbin proved to be a clownshoes-wearing bumblefuck and Tannenbaum's last hire loves shoes.

Continue with the BOB-Pagano battle royale.
No argument here on everything in this post. The track record of the folks making this decision suggest that us Dolphins fans are thoroughly screwed.
 

PedroKsBambino

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But we're discussing the accomplishments of O'Brien in Houston. The only accomplishment of O'Brien to speak of during his tenure in Houston to date has been a divisional title in 2015. A year in which his greatest threat to the divisional crown played 11 games with a 40-year old QB (including both match-ups against his Houston Texans). So I guess I'm just not sure how Andrew Luck is all that relevant to the discussion at this point.
Because no one is talking just about 2015, in this thread or the other one, so the relevant sample includes a great deal of Andrew Luck playing (and on an artificially low salary to boot). Your own post before mine says "The subject is whether or not O'Brien is a worthwhile head coach" not anything about "just in 2015". Remember, your critique was that the Pagano discussion talked about a crappy division---so Pagano's record with Luck in other years is indisputably relevant. Talk about moving the goalposts...get a grip, man.
 
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mcaqua

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Because no one is talking just about 2015, in this thread or the other one, so the relevant sample includes a great deal of Andrew Luck playing (and on an artificially low salary to boot). Your own post before mine says "The subject is whether or not O'Brien is a worthwhile head coach" not anything about "just in 2015". Remember, your critique was that the Pagano discussion talked about a crappy division---so Pagano's record with Luck in other years is indisputably relevant. Talk about moving the goalposts...get a grip, man.
Look this is a Dolphins thread, I'll keep this short and sweet, so as to not totally derail the discussion for its intended purpose. But what the fuck are you talking about? O'Brien has been HC in Houston for 2 seasons and the discussion started by my initial quote of a post that pointed to O'Brien's accomplishments outweighing that of Joe Philbin. So, yeah, that specifically relates to 2015, a year in which Andrew Luck is not material to the discussion.

But fuck it - let's include those 2 games O'Brien had to gameplan against Andrew Luck in 2014. You don't think the impact on O'Brien's record wasn't matched by the fact that Pagano was playing a first place schedule while O'Brien got to enjoy the scheduling perks of a 2-14 record in 2013?

This was a civil discussion up until you decided to devolve into some flippant asshat for reasons unbeknownst to me.
 
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sodenj5

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Yea, I'm going to have to say that just because BO'B>Philbin doesn't necessarily make him a good coach. It makes him better than a bad coach. Also, the argument that he won his divisional championship with Luck on the bench for more than half the season shouldn't be discounted.

Through their first 2 seasons, Philbin was one game under .500 and O'Brien is 2 games over. A three game difference. O'Brien may not have had a quarterback, but he has arguably one of the most dominating players in the league and had a #1 overall draft pick at his disposal. The Texans were swept by the Colts in 2014, and split this year, both games against Hasselbeck. Accounting for how bad the AFC South is, I'm not even totally sold that O'Brien is significantly better.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Look this is a Dolphins thread, I'll keep this short and sweet, so as to not totally derail the discussion for its intended purpose. But what the fuck are you talking about? O'Brien has been HC in Houston for 2 seasons and the discussion started by my initial quote of a post that pointed to O'Brien's accomplishments outweighing that of Joe Philbin. So, yeah, that specifically relates to 2015, a year in which Andrew Luck is not material to the discussion.

But fuck it - let's include those 2 games O'Brien had to gameplan against Andrew Luck in 2014. You don't think the impact on O'Brien's record wasn't matched by the fact that Pagano was playing a first place schedule while O'Brien got to enjoy the scheduling perks of a 2-14 record in 2013?

This was a civil discussion up until you decided to devolve into some flippant asshat for reasons unbeknownst to me.
You need to reread your own earlier post, which compared two coaches in the AFC South division. You raised the issue I responded to, and considering the logical flaws in what you said, you are in no position to all anyone a name and you are completely wrong about the relevance of what I raised. If you want to have a civil discussion, take the time to think before you post and drop the unwarranted attitude. If you want it to stay focused on the Dolphins, then don't bring up other divisions and most certainly get things wrong about them.
 

pdaj

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While the Pagano-O'Brien debate has been fascinating <smile> ...


Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 2h2 hours ago

The Fins will make a strong, strong push for Adam Gase I'm told. Been locked on him for a while. Will try to keep from getting back to PHI.

This would be in line with the initial rumors that surfaced a couple of days ago, suggesting Gase was at the top of the list. If he chooses another team, then I'm guessing Shanahan is the primary backup plan, unless Jackson/Marrone/Patricia wow? Haven't seen anything written about Smith since his interview on Monday.

Edit: Still not sure I buy the candidate-with-no-HC-experience storyline. If I had to lay down my $$ on someone, it'd be Shanahan. He's Campbell -- with actual experience and SB hardware. Curious to see if Camp' ends up staying on the new staff, though. He's survived a number of regime changes in the past, and may be seen as someone worth grooming.

I'm not crazy about Mike Smith as the Fins' next HC, but I wonder if he'd serve as Shanny's DC.
 
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Clears Cleaver

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It's Gase.

Hiring him means they are committing to Tannehill. So basically no hope for next three years until they start over again.

Maybe they will hire a really good DC and OC. Lolol. Yeah.
 

sodenj5

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We'll see. He made Tebow and Cutler passable and his offense thrived with Manning. He seems smart and adaptable to his team's strengths, which is a sign of good coaching.

I think a big key is who will be his D Coordinator? Someone needs to sort that mess out, and hopefully will be a 4-3 guy, otherwise Miami will have to seriously blow up the D.
 

Ed Hillel

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Five years? It doesn't count against the cap, so no real harm, but that's quite a commitment for a guy with no head coaching experience.
 

Van Everyman

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In announcing Gase's hire, Ross said he bought the Dolphins not just to get to the playoffs but to win Super Bowls.

They haven't even reached the playoffs since 2008. Had the sale to Ross even been finalized?
 

pdaj

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Okay, so it's settled --- Adam Gase is the new HC of the Miami Dolphins. How's everyone feeling about this?

I think when you hire a coordinator without any HC experience, you really have no idea what you have until the guy starts doin' his thing. Does all the love from former coaches and players make me feel hopeful? Absolutely. But no one truly knows if someone's ready to be a HC until it happens. Everyone loves and respected Philbin, right? To land the "next great coach", you have to identify him early and take the plunge of faith. I think o lot of the angst with fans over this move comes from the question: Are Mike T. and Ross the guys we can trust to make the right choice?

Here's how Gase differs from Philbin, thankfully.


- Gase was a legit OC, which means he actually controlled the play-calling.
- Gase was an OC for more than one team, and his performance with both teams was deemed relatively successful.
- Gase has worked with an array of established coaches, particularly in the NFL. He worked with Saban in college, as well as Mariucci, Martz, McDaniels, McCoy, Fox in the NFL.
- Gase has served as a QB coach in the past, and working with quarterbacks is considered to be one of his strengths.
- Gase has demonstrated the ability to work well with players. He got through to Cutler, a QB known to be incredibly difficult to work with.
- Gase was actually pursued by other teams.
- Gase claps like a man.
 

mcaqua

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Well its official:


Let's hope this turns out better than the last time we turned the defense over to a Cincinnati DB coach.
 

Clears Cleaver

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clyde Christensen hired as new OC. HE had been QB coach for the Colts for the past 14 years (so worked with Manning and Luck).

I get a sense that 1) Tannehill has one year under Gase/Christensen to prove he can play 2) any hope of this team becoming a physical team is pretty much gone
 

pdaj

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CC, not sure how you come to your #2 conclusion, but regardless, I don't think you have to be an overly physical offensive team in the NFL to be successful. But how would define "physical"? Running the ball? The Bears ranked 11th in the league in rushing this past season. I think Gase will be looking to bring that type of balance to Miami, which is something we haven't had the last few seasons.

Going forward, I think it's the defense that needs to become the tough, physical unit. I'm hoping Joseph proves to be the type of DC that can lead that type of unit.

Considering Gase will be calling the shots on offense, I love the OC hire. Christian has a ton of experience, serving as just about every position coach, as well as an OC. He should be a tremendous asset in game-planning and offensive player development.
 
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