2015 Dolphins: Fire the Lazor!

MillarTime · Jan 23, 2015

Too soon.

Clears Cleaver · Jan 23, 2015

Wallace is gone from what all the local reporters are saying. Typical dolphins. Get rid of the better player because they don't want to deal or don't have infrastructure in place to deal with him off the field.

Theya re going to draft a DT or a LB in first round then get WR/CB/S etc etc

pdaj · Jan 23, 2015

Thanks for starting a new thread!

Clears Cleaver said:
Wallace is gone from what all the local reporters are saying. Typical dolphins. Get rid of the better player because they don't want to deal or don't have infrastructure in place to deal with him off the field.

Theya re going to draft a DT or a LB in first round then get WR/CB/S etc etc

And many of these players have gone on to be very successful with other teams. Marshall, Dansby, Vontae, Sean Smith, etc.

If "we" don't get a high pick for Wallace, I'll be peeved. Sure, Mikey's a little high maintenance, but in many ways, he's proven to be a great teammate, and the type of no-excuse player this organization needs more of.

There was a soxfan post I wanted to reply to; it involved Ross' recruitment of Harbaugh to Michigan. I can't seem to find it in the old thread. Am I missing something?

mcaqua · Jan 23, 2015

pdaj said:
Thanks for starting a new thread!

And many of these players have gone on to be very successful with other teams. Marshall, Dansby, Vontae, Sean Smith, etc.

If "we" don't get a high pick for Wallace, I'll be peeved. Sure, Mikey's a little high maintenance, but in many ways, he's proven to be a great teammate, and the type of no-excuse player this organization needs more of.

There was a soxfan post I wanted to reply to; it involved Ross' recruitment of Harbaugh to Michigan. I can't seem to find it in the old thread. Am I missing something?

You can't actually believe this, right?

In other news, we just lost the most talented coach on our staff. Things are clearly trending up for this organization:

The Jets have officially tabbed their defensive and special teams coordinators.

The hiring of the 45-year-old Rodgers was expected. He had spent the previous seven seasons as the Dolphins’ defensive line coach, the first four of which were with new Jets head coach Todd Bowles, who was Miami’s assistant head coach/secondary coach from 2008 through 2011.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/23/jets-hire-kacy-rodgers-as-defensive-coordinator/

pdaj · Jan 23, 2015

mcaqua said:
You can't actually believe this, right?

In other news, we just lost the most talented coach on our staff. Things are clearly trending up for this organization:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/23/jets-hire-kacy-rodgers-as-defensive-coordinator/

I absolutely do.

And Rodgers is a huge loss.

It'll be interesting to see how Bowles does in NY. He was offered the DC job when Philbin came on board, but decided to jettison once he was was passed over for HC.

singaporesoxfan · Jan 23, 2015

I really thought Wallace did as well as he could for the Fins. The problem seems to be that what Wallace is really good at is catching the deep ball, and Tannehill for all his improvements this season can't seem to air it out.

mcaqua · Jan 24, 2015

pdaj said:
I absolutely do.

And Rodgers is a huge loss.

It'll be interesting to see how Bowles does in NY. He was offered the DC job when Philbin came on board, but decided to jettison once he was was passed over for HC.

If you're going to make the assertion that Wallace is some sort of terrific teammate and a no-nonsense type personality in that locker room, then the onus is on you to provide some evidence supporting this claim. From my view, his last professional appearance consisted of whining to coaches about a lack of targets following a drive in which the Dolphins had just put the ball in the end zone. This in light of the fact that his target, reception and touchdown totals all basically mimicked his most productive seasons in Pittsburgh. All of this despite the fact that he is the (or one of) the highest paid WRs in the league. I couldn't disagree more with your assertion. This organization needs less of the overpaid, leaderless types.

The Rodgers departure is a colossal mistake. We will regret everything about the decision to retain Coyle's services. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Corsi · Jan 30, 2015

The Miami Herald reports the Dolphins were high on Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema before hiring Joe Philbin in 2012, but the sides disagreed on whether Russell Wilson could be an NFL starting quarterback.

This is an amazing story, and it's a slow news week ahead of the Super Bowl, so we'll shout it out. Per ace beat writer Armando Salguero, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross was high on Bielema for the head-coaching job, but Bielema and the personnel department led by ex-GM Jeff Ireland hit a wall when Bielema suggested the Dolphins take Wilson in the second round of the 2012 draft. Bielema allegedly even promised the Dolphins a Super Bowl within five years if they take Wilson, who was Bielema's quarterback at Wisconsin. Bielema pulled out of the running for the job over "personnel issues," and the rest is history. Ireland took Ryan Tannehill with the No. 8 overall pick, and Wilson went to Seattle in the third round. The Dolphins remain doormats, while Wilson is going to back-to-back Super Bowls.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9457/stephen-ross

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2015/01/russell-wilson-could-have-been-a-miami-dolphin.html

mcaqua · Jan 30, 2015

Corsi said:
Bielema pulled out of the running for the job over "personnel issues," and the rest is history. Ireland took Ryan Tannehill with the No. 8 overall pick, and Wilson went to Seattle in the third round. The Dolphins remain doormats, while Wilson is going to back-to-back Super Bowls.

That's a hot take and all, but is Wilson even a superior QB? Its certainly not the slam dunk the aforementioned quote would lead you to believe.

Soxy · Jan 31, 2015

Not sure if that last post is serious or not, but if it is I would love to hear the argument for Ryan Tannehill being a better QB than Russell Wilson. I'm looking at the stats and you're right that it's not close, but not in the favor of Tannehill. I guess you could point to sack %, though they're both below average at that. And that's it. Whether it's completion %, QBR, WPA, EPA, TD%, INT%, ANY/A, DVOA.... I mean, Wilson ranks better than Tannehill at everything. What, exactly, does Tannehill do better?

Sure, Wilson plays with a better defense and a better running game. But I don't think that alone can explain Wilson being better in, like, every meaningful statistical category you can look at over their 3-year careers. And it's not like Wilson is playing with more talented pass catchers than Tannehill has either.

If the stats were closer, there might be an argument. But the stats aren't close. Wilson is better.

Toe Nash · Jan 31, 2015

Also, making special plays with one's feet is a pretty important skill and part of Wilson's game that makes him the quarterback he is. It can't just be glossed over. Maybe if you forced both players to stay in the pocket every play Tannehill would be better (maybe not), but that's obviously not happening.

Devizier · Jan 31, 2015

Yeah, Tannehill's a fine quarterback, definitely better than league average, but WIlson is arguably top five. And it's not like Wilson's had a great o-line, either.

mcaqua · Feb 1, 2015

Ultimately, I think Wilson has been the better quarterback through their initial three years in the league. I don't think the delta between the two is all that large and I think Tannehill is closing the gap pretty quickly. The fact is Wilson entered the league having been the more polished product when you consider that Tannehill was playing WR during the early portion of his tenure at A&M and simply lacked repetitions at the position to match.

All that said, my issue with the article is that it's more than a bit disingenuous to insinuate that the reason for the Dolphins having been doormats lies solely with their preference for Tannehill over Wilson. I cannot envision a scenario where Wilson ends up in Miami and out produces Tannehill's production or improves the fortunes of this franchise in any material way over the last three years. Certainly they're not contenders in the AFC, never mind SB champions, and I'm skeptical they even make the playoffs.

If the story is indeed accurate, I do chuckle at the thought of Ireland's condescending response to Bielema's notion that Russell Wilson was a SB champion in the making.

Toe Nash · Feb 1, 2015

sodenj5 said:
While they are closer than my initial assumption would indicate, my assertion that most of Wilson's value is in his legs and not his arm isn't invalid. Wilson also has the superior supporting cast surrounding him on both offense and defense. It's an interesting topic to debate as to what makes the "better quarterback."

The better quarterback is the player who provides more value from the QB position. Given the huge edge in running, it is clearly Wilson. Comparing them solely on throwing the ball would be like ignoring every time Darren Sproles catches a ball.

Wilson is AT WORST an equal passer as well. You conveniently leave out the PASSING metrics that Wilson is better at: QBR, DVOA (Tannehill's big edge in usage gives him the DYAR lead), YPA, plain ol' Passer Rating...

If you look at 2013 as well, Wilson blows Tanny completely out of the water.

Do we have to find the thread about PFF's ratings?

Mugsy's Jock · Feb 1, 2015

Addressing the question posed by the thread, some friends were at a party chatting with Tannehill yesterday and he claimed he barely looked at his footballs before or after they were sent to officials.

As to your other questions... a.) he doesn't think it's a big deal, b) "the Patriots. By a lot", and c.) she wasn't there.

Soxy · Feb 1, 2015

Toe Nash said:
Do we have to find the thread about PFF's ratings?

And using counting stats instead of rate stats in the same post where it's noted that Tannehill dropped back to pass almost 100 more times than Wilson. He attempted 138 more passes. I would hope his counting stats were higher. (For the record I was looking at career numbers in my original post, not just this past season.)

I think one can definitely make the argument that Tannehill could surpass Wilson if he continues improving. I don't think you can say he's there yet. Nor do I think one can simply assume continued progression because his numbers have improved each year. That his numbers have gotten better every season he's been in the league definitely has to be encouraging for Dolphins fans, but if this is who he is, I think it's stretching to consider him to be better than what Russell Wilson has been for 3 seasons. And Wilson could also improve.

JMDurron · Feb 1, 2015

My takeaway from that article was less about the difference between particular players and how 20/20 hindsight might or might not make the Dolphins look stupid on that particular choice, and was more about the difference in approach between teams that actually let their head coaches build their systems and their rosters around the players that they want, and management/ownership groups that meddle and chase off coaching candidates that they are interested in. The quality of the coaching staff and the rest of the roster may have as much to do with why Wilson has outperformed Tannehill, and the Seahawks have outperformed the Dolphins, but that's the point! If you don't let your field-level staff have significant input into/control over the players that they have to coach, you'll never have the kind of coaching staff or roster that leads to the kind of success that Russell Wilson has enjoyed in Seattle.

CouchsideSteve · Feb 1, 2015

As Dolphins fans, I think we're very fortunate to be in a place where we can even feign an argument of Tannehill vs. Wilson. Our QB took a big step forward this year, and that's a huge piece of the puzzle in building the next contending team.

My wishlist for the off-season, acknowledging limited cap space:

Offense
- Invest in the O-line: If Albert returns at full strength, investing an early round draft pick could turn this nagging weakness into a strength; if he doesn't, it will be critical to bring in reinforcements just to keep Tannehill upright.
- Retain Mike Wallace: He's still a dynamic playmaker (albeit an inconsistent one), and we can't place Tannehill's struggles stretching the field at his feet. Find new and inventive ways to get him the ball next season (e.g., screens, jet sweeps).
- Re-sign Charles Clay: His stock probably suffers from a down season, but he's still young (entering age-26 season) and a good fit for this offense as the receiving.
- Sign a buy-low WR: Michael Crabtree or Cecil Shorts would be good complements to Wallace/Landry/Clay
- Find a cheap, change-of-pace RB: Miller had a fantastic 2014 - pair him with a versatile 3rd down complement, either via the draft or with a guy like Roy Helu Jr.

Defense
- Revamp the LB corps: Ellerbe is gone (good riddance). Wheeler has been a huge disappointment, but cutting him doesn't grant much cap relief - he probably stays in a diminished role. That leaves you with Jordan, Misi, and Jenkins as likely starters, absent any FA or draft additions. Jordan is an unknown quantity at OLB and Misi isn't a natural fit inside, so I'd like to see us target 2 LBs in rounds 2-5.
- Re-sign Jared Odrick: This is an obvious priority; will likely mean cutting Starks in the process.
- Patch the secondary with FAs: It's actually a pretty deep FA class at CB, which is a good thing, since we're likely to be shopping for a starter opposite of Grimes (assumes Finnegan is jettisoned; Jamar Taylor rehabbing from a fairly significant injury). Safety is also a question mark, with Reshad Jones the only established contributor on the roster. I'd like to see Delmas brought back as he recovers from ACL surgery.

Specialists
- Cut both Sturgis & Fields: Neither performed well in 2014, and Fields carries too large of a cap number. I'd be fine bringing in minimum salary rookies at both position.

Clears Cleaver · Feb 26, 2015

Wallace's days appear numbered. Fish are trying to trade him, no one will bite and they will end up releasing him. What a bad organization this is. One step forward, two steps back, two steps forward, one step back....rinse, lather, repeat. Getting rid of talent is not how you build winning teams.

Given the defense needs a complete overhaul, the o-line needs one or two starters and there are zero elite weapons on offense, this is looking like 5 wins next year. Then Philbin will be fired and Hickey will be demoted and Tannenbaum will be GM. And process starts anew

RedOctober3829 · Feb 27, 2015

Brian Hartline has been released.

Clears Cleaver · Feb 27, 2015

"Let's sign Tannehill to a $100m contract and have his top receivers be slot guys in Landry and Matthews. He can't throw deep anyways." - Dolphins front office

Hartline to the Pats works

They'll probably let Clay go, too. He causes mismatches.

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt · Feb 27, 2015

Didn't Clay just re-sign with Miami?

rymflaherty · Feb 27, 2015

The Dolphins are now the shining example of why "need" as it pertains to the off-season and especially the draft is a fallacy.

The only "need" this team (and all teams) have is talent. How many times has this team now rebuilt the offensive line in the past decade? The Receiving corps?
Outside of QB (depending on how you feel about Tannehill) you could take an off-season thread from anytime in the past decade, remove the players names, and you'd have no idea what year it was from.
It never ends, and it's beyond frustrating.

I suppose the one shred of hope at the moment is that the Wallace and Hartline contracts we're Ireland-specials and not on Hickey. While the situation doesn't look great at the moment I will try to retain some patience and see how he and Tannenbaum figure everything out. As an isolated move, letting go of Hartline does make some sense, so me being upset is really just the lack of direction as a whole, building up over time. They have the whole off-season...but they have an awful lot of work to do.

Clears Cleaver · Feb 27, 2015

Gibson is absolutely gone. Clay is a free agent

I saw a chart yesterday that showed since 2010 Miami has spent more in cash to players than every other team except SF. A horrible, horrible talent evaluation process.

CaptainLaddie · Feb 27, 2015

Massaged gently by Lauren, I presume.

RedOctober3829 · Feb 27, 2015

@MiamiDolphins: The team has released WR Brandon Gibson.

Ed Hillel · Feb 27, 2015

Question: Who pays guaranteed base salary when a trade is consummated? I know Bonus money sticks with the trading team, since it's already paid, but I'm not sure how it works with guaranteed base salary. That may be the difference between Wallace being tradeable and untradeable. He has a base of nearly ten million, three of which is guaranteed. He gets too expensive after that, unless he's absolutely elite next season, but you may find a taker for a 1-year 7 million dollar deal.

Super Nomario · Feb 27, 2015

Ed Hillel said:
Question: Who pays guaranteed base salary when a trade is consummated? I know Bonus money sticks with the trading team, since it's already paid, but I'm not sure how it works with guaranteed base salary. That may be the difference between Wallace being tradeable and untradeable. He has a base of nearly ten million, three of which is guaranteed. He gets too expensive after that, unless he's absolutely elite next season, but you may find a taker for a 1-year 7 million dollar deal.

The receiving team. Pats got stuck with $1 MM guaranteed salary for Isaac Sopoaga this year, for example.

Ed Hillel · Feb 27, 2015

Super Nomario said:
The receiving team. Pats got stuck with $1 MM guaranteed salary for Isaac Sopoaga this year, for example.

Got it, thanks. So it's really just money that's already been paid out, kind of like Aaron Hernandez.

PayrodsFirstClutchHit · Feb 27, 2015

Almost every post season ranking of coaches has Philbin at the bottom of the those that remained employed after last season. Rotoworld has a brutal review.

The grandest of mediocrities, Joe Philbin is not an NFL coach. He is a shrinking violet garbed in an aqua polo and adorned with a headset. He is a man unloved by his players, outwitted by his rivals and overwhelmed by his duties. An “offensive mind,” Philbin does not call his own plays. That leaves his primary function as “leading.” This is not good because Philbin’s primary failing is leadership. Not every NFL coach is going to be Pete Carroll or Mike Ditka. Loud does not equal “lead.” But if you’re going to be the quiet type, you better have a firm grasp on the pulse of your team. This is something Philbin insisted he didn’t have when he pled ignorance again and again in the Dolphins’ “Bullygate” scandal. Philbin’s locker room was fracturing into factions, and whether it was willful or intentional, he had no idea. Once Philbin finally does discover his problems, he ships them out instead of coaching them up. Brandon Marshalland Vontae Davis have both thrived since Philbin sent them packing, while the Dolphins have spent millions and many draft picks trying to replace them.

Not that Philbin’s failures all come behind closed doors. As a game manager, his top innovation has been calling late timeouts on defense in one-score games. This brilliant tactic helped produce two wins in 2014 … for the Packers and Lions. Philbin’s other speciality is dialing up field goals. Unfortunately for Dolphins fans, only five teams had worse field-goal percentages last season. Philbin is John Harbaugh if he never won. He’s Mike Tomlin if he never showed fire. He’s Jason Garrett if he never smiled. He is the worst coach in the NFL.

singaporesoxfan · Feb 28, 2015

I still think Wallace has talent and will produce in the right offense. Short passes from Tannehill just aren't a good fit for his skills.

dwainw · Feb 28, 2015

PayrodsFirstClutchHit said:
Almost every post season ranking of coaches has Philbin at the bottom of the those that remained employed after last season. Rotoworld has a brutal review.

The grandest of mediocrities, Joe Philbin is not an NFL coach. He is a shrinking violet garbed in an aqua polo and adorned with a headset. He is a man unloved by his players, outwitted by his rivals and overwhelmed by his duties. An “offensive mind,” Philbin does not call his own plays. That leaves his primary function as “leading.” This is not good because Philbin’s primary failing is leadership. Not every NFL coach is going to be Pete Carroll or Mike Ditka. Loud does not equal “lead.” But if you’re going to be the quiet type, you better have a firm grasp on the pulse of your team. This is something Philbin insisted he didn’t have when he pled ignorance again and again in the Dolphins’ “Bullygate” scandal. Philbin’s locker room was fracturing into factions, and whether it was willful or intentional, he had no idea. Once Philbin finally does discover his problems, he ships them out instead of coaching them up. Brandon Marshalland Vontae Davis have both thrived since Philbin sent them packing, while the Dolphins have spent millions and many draft picks trying to replace them.

Not that Philbin’s failures all come behind closed doors. As a game manager, his top innovation has been calling late timeouts on defense in one-score games. This brilliant tactic helped produce two wins in 2014 … for the Packers and Lions. Philbin’s other speciality is dialing up field goals. Unfortunately for Dolphins fans, only five teams had worse field-goal percentages last season. Philbin is John Harbaugh if he never won. He’s Mike Tomlin if he never showed fire. He’s Jason Garrett if he never smiled. He is the worst coach in the NFL.

Fun read. At least with all the changing personnel heading into next season, Philbin will get to put his stamp of mediocrity on a team of players acquired almost entirely on his watch--before his inevitable firing at season's end. I'm especially looking forward to the rebuilding process that will ensue next year at this time so we can start the clock on whatever 2/3/4-year plan the next regime implements so the current hopelessness can morph back into a sense of indifference and resignation, thus restoring order to the world Dolphins fans have grown so accustomed to in the past 20 years.

pdaj · Feb 28, 2015

Mike Wallace is a bit of a diva -- no question. But he busted his ass last season and "brought it" every single game last year; well, except, maybe, for the final one. Despite being reduced to more of a short-to-intermediate possession receiver last year, he made it work, said all the right things to the press, and never made excuses when the team disappointed. His teammates love him. Brandon Albert, one of the team's top leaders and a Philbin favorite, tweeted something similar to, "Mike better be back with us; that's my boy" several weeks back. I don't think there's a single player that wants to win more than he does.

I want to see the Dolphins add more players like Wallace, not less.

As others have brought up in this thread, if Tannehill had just an average deep ball, MW might have had his best season ever. I lost count as to how many TDs were left on the field due to RT's deep ball inaccuracy. I won't deny that he's overpaid, but he's a bonafide playmaker, and the Fins don't nearly have enough as it is ...

I want to see Philbin and the Miami coaching staff make it work. You know, like the Bears have with Marshall, and how the Colts are doing with Vontae Davis (per Rotoworld). We're not talking about an Albert Haynesworth here.

The way this team has been run in the last few years, I fully expect Wallace to be cut, and Cobb to be signed. You know, since Cobb and Jarvis Landry essentially play the same position.

But I still have hope Tannenbaum's addition will be a positive one.

Shelterdog · Feb 28, 2015

pdaj said:
Mike Wallace is a bit of a diva -- no question. But he busted his ass last season and "brought it" every single game last year; well, except, maybe, for the final one. Despite being reduced to more of a short-to-intermediate possession receiver last year, he made it work, said all the right things to the press, and never made excuses when the team disappointed. His teammates love him. Brandon Albert, one of the team's top leaders and a Philbin favorite, tweeted something similar to, "Mike better be back with us; that's my boy" several weeks back. I don't think there's a single player that wants to win more than he does.

I want to see the Dolphins add more players like Wallace, not less.

What is your source for any of this? There were various reports of dissent in the locker room, arguments between Wallace and Lazor, he bitched about how he didn't like the play calls after the Jaguar game.

It looks like pure wishcasting.

Clears Cleaver · Feb 28, 2015

I agree with the assessment of Wallace. He plays hard, made plenty of big plays and was constantly open. He's a PITA sometimes, but the guy brought it all year, except in the final half of the final game

they release him its a big mistake

pdaj · Feb 28, 2015

Shelterdog said:
What is your source for any of this? There were various reports of dissent in the locker room, arguments between Wallace and Lazor, he bitched about how he didn't like the play calls after the Jaguar game.

It looks like pure wishcasting.

There's been conflicting reports on the Wallace situation in Miami. Prior to final game of the year, several writers relentlessly praised Wallace for his approach to the game. He was arriving early to practice, staying late to work with Tanny, helping the younger players, etc. One writer from the sentinel, Omar Kelly, named MW his favorite player to interview, because he was "100 percent real" and "never made excuses". It's generally accepted that he's a well liked teammate.

Some of the behind-the-scenes info came out after the final game debacle, but Lazor, Miami's OC, has gone on record as stating he really enjoys coaching Wallace; it's been stated that Wallace's issues are primarily with Philbin.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article11335148.html#storylink=cpy

The word around the league is there’s a true difference of opinion about Wallace within the team’s braintrust. Philbin, who famously has a no-drama philosophy when it comes to players, is believed to be in favor of letting Wallace go. Hickey, meanwhile, is apparently more sympathetic to keeping him.

Left unclear: What exactly Tannenbaum wants ‒ for both 2015 and beyond.

The Dolphins have far too much talent to be in complete rebuild mode this year. But again, every move the Dolphins makes now will be weighed against what it costs them down the road.

With Hartline and Gibson now gone, the view is that Wallace's chances of staying have now improved. But who knows ...

Clears Cleaver · Mar 2, 2015

Some good gossip/info here:
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2015/02/dolphins-looking-closely-at-cornerbacks-d-tackles-dolphins-canes-marlins-chatter-heat-captax-change.html

Also, some reporters are speculating that based on odricks tweets tonight (including one of a very fat and happy mike tannenbaum at the airport) that he will be returning.

Clears Cleaver · Mar 2, 2015

I feel like CB and WR are 1-2 in terms of need. DE as well.

pdaj · Mar 2, 2015

I think Clay stays. He loves it in Miami, and the team love is mutual. Things usually work out when that's the case.

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