I'm responsible for Manning's decline. I drove all the way from Los Angeles to Denver in late December to let my dogs poop on the grounds of Sports Authority Field. It worked.
2015 Broncos-Peyton's Retirement Party Sunday 1/24/16 3PM ET
- Thread starter Dogman
- Start date
- Status
... and yes they are wearing matching sweaters. Don't judge me. It's my soon-to-be-ex-wife's doing.
jackleary said:
You don't need to follow them weekly to know that they'd have to go outside the organization to find a solution at QB. Osweiler is the definition of a JAG.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brock-osweiler-1.html
Yeah Osweiler is very likely sub-starter material in the NFL. It's hard to really say, though, because he's never really gotten any playing time and his work on preseason games came with the second/third strings and against vanilla defenses.mt8thsw9th said:
He has some desirable physical traits and a strong arm and there are always the usual "the team is really high on his potential" puff pieces and blurbs here and there, but he is a cypher since there's no tape on him in the pros. There's no public sense of whether or not he can run an offense, read a defense, make snap decisions or execute under duress. Without that, I have to assume he isn't starter material.
There's a small chance that he can be a Joe Flacco type, but that's his ceiling and an unlikely one.
There's a growing chorus of Denver fans who want to give him a look (the common refrain is "he can run Kubiak's bootleg plays and Manning can't") but the back up quarterback is always the most popular guy in town until you need him.
i love oz i think he can be a top 10-12 qb but if i was elway i would offer a 1st in 16 to Cleveland for josh mccown and cut manning or deal him to houton or cleland for a 6th in 2017 because its 50-50 we can keep oz past this year we have got to win NOW because as Seattle has taught us u cant keep a strong def forever
manning unless he keeps getting 3 to a game will lose in round 1 to the JETS or pitt mccown would give Denver a fair shot to at least go to the AFCGC
manning unless he keeps getting 3 to a game will lose in round 1 to the JETS or pitt mccown would give Denver a fair shot to at least go to the AFCGC
I love the idea of Manning being traded to Cleveland. Almost as much as I love Denver sending a first for McCown.
The same McCown who kept handing Denver the game Sunday? Or is it that you feel the Denver defense just so sick that it even makes the great McCown look pedestrian?
j-man said:
Oz is in his fourth season. If he's capable of being a top 10-12 QB then he should be at least as good as McCown today (particularly since he knows the system).
We should assume he's somewhat been paying attention during camp and practices since Kubiak got hired, no?soxfan121 said:
No discussion of Brock Osweiler is complete without a reference to this moment:
https://vine.co/v/OiZYQExF7hU
https://vine.co/v/OiZYQExF7hU
Shelterdog said:
Which system are we talking about? The pistol-Manning iteration of the Kubiak scheme? The installed-in-the-offseason Kubiak offense? The Gase-Manning system, which he had multiple (off) seasons in?
The Broncos are a mess, partially because of Manning's declining skills and partially because Kubiak's preferred system is being overwritten on the fly in its first season of use. And because it is in its first season, players don't know it well enough to be improvising off it.
yeah kubiak wants his system but that does not work for manning if i was kubiak i wouild gut my system just for this season as long as manning does not come back next year but denver needs a star 1-cut back anderson does not fit and hillman is a backupsoxfan121 said:
which is a shame because denver has a easy sch next year ATL CAR ne indy at home at @jax @ tb @ no @ jax @ ciny no cold weather games
j-man said:
The Brock Orsweiler who has passed for a total of 159 yards and 1 TD in his career, and taken 2 sacks on 30 attempts.
In garbage time.
That's the guy that you are confident will be a top 10 QB.
I mean, I know "the most popular guy on the team is the backup QB" is a cliche, but wow.
drleather2001 said:
That's not how I read the post. I think j-man meant that it would take Orsweiler 16 to 20 starts to get to the level of a top 10 QB, but that McCown might be able to play for this Denver team now and play at the level of a top 10 QB. I think this thought is mostly based on the talent of the receivers.
The Defense can remain almost entirely in tact again next year. Von will either be signed or tagged and if they want to keep Ware they can since Manning coming off the books will save 17M in cap space.
1 every 50 years? This is a better defense than the Seahawks the last couple years, the SB Ravens and the 86 Bears?
Manning is better than McCown right now.
Manning is better than McCown right now.
I think he means for any given franchise. It's probably a slight exaggeration, but not that much. The defense there is loaded.Marciano490 said:
I'd take McCown over Manning right now for sure. McCown is 36 himself, though. Kinda crazy.
The best Broncos' D ever is how I read it:Kenny F said:
"As a Broncos fan, we can't waste this once in a generation defense with shitty old Peyton."
I think he has a point, but so does Spike. Elway has set this team up well for the next few years. That Harris Jr. contract was thievery.
As for Manning, if it was possible to put all the politics aside, Denver probably would be looking around for a QB, and, honestly, McCown is probably the best option available. Now a first rounder is way, way too much, but the thought process itself is quite rational. The alternative, of course, is that Osweiller could just step in, but we have to speculate there since we have so little on which to base a decision.
Ed Hillel said:
The orange crush defense might have been the best in the league for about five years. This one isn't there yet.
.
Shelterdog said:
While the 1989 Broncos defense is their franchise leader in fewest points (1st in the NFL) and yards allowed (3rd), the best of the Orange Crush defenses was 1978 (2nd & 6th, respectively). That year, they had a defensive assistant named Bill Belichick.
His dead cap hit is only $2.5M, though. So if he doesn't retire, they can still still a pretty good chunk ($19M) by cutting him.j-man said:
i think we are going to cut ware in the offseason that way we can get ware barnett on the field and save 7 mil
looking at this team for 2016
QB manning could still come back as he is under contact utnail 2017 if he does expect us to get a slot WR or a TE if we cut manning then oz will be the guy with a guy like luke mccown backing him up
RB status unchanged Anderson is playing hurt and is a bad fit in a 1 cut Off hillman is great in this system but is best as a backup
WR here should be little change denver has some talent here other than thomas sanders but manning does not throw the ball to laiter folwer nor wood
TE awful here but getting back 3rd round pick jeff heuerman from acl tear who should be a garrett graham type
OL if clady re-does his deal i doubt it then T will be set if not will need a zone T in the draft we are good at G/C just young
DL A Smith D Wolfe M Jackson are all FA so will need 1 or 2 draft picks here
LB set here will lose danny T to FA but t davis can step in
CB set here
S d Stewart is a FA hope we can keep him D Bruton jr is a great 3rd S TJ ward great aga the run but cant cover well
looking at this team for 2016
QB manning could still come back as he is under contact utnail 2017 if he does expect us to get a slot WR or a TE if we cut manning then oz will be the guy with a guy like luke mccown backing him up
RB status unchanged Anderson is playing hurt and is a bad fit in a 1 cut Off hillman is great in this system but is best as a backup
WR here should be little change denver has some talent here other than thomas sanders but manning does not throw the ball to laiter folwer nor wood
TE awful here but getting back 3rd round pick jeff heuerman from acl tear who should be a garrett graham type
OL if clady re-does his deal i doubt it then T will be set if not will need a zone T in the draft we are good at G/C just young
DL A Smith D Wolfe M Jackson are all FA so will need 1 or 2 draft picks here
LB set here will lose danny T to FA but t davis can step in
CB set here
S d Stewart is a FA hope we can keep him D Bruton jr is a great 3rd S TJ ward great aga the run but cant cover well
You stated earlier that Mccown is a better option at this point. I don't see how Manning is helping win games. There are comparable players available through trade or FA for a hell of a lot less than $19M. I see no way Manning is a bronco next year but you know the team better than I do. I'll be shocked if he's playing at all. He's got one foot into Willie Mays Mets territory.j-man said:
Edit: God you could probably being cutler back for nothing and be better off.
The only way Manning will be welcomed back is if they win the Super Bowl, and even then I'd imagine he'd be gently nudged to retire on top by Elway.
From a team management perspective, there's no rational reason to bring Manning back another year. His production is so far below what he's being paid that it doesn't make any sense for him to stay at QB. The fans (as far as I can tell) have little personal feelings toward Manning, so there's no sentimentality issues.
He's going to be gone. I'd say he almost certainly retires, barring a late season resurgence and a good playoff run, in which case he ends up in Buffalo or something to squeeze one more year of that arm.
From a team management perspective, there's no rational reason to bring Manning back another year. His production is so far below what he's being paid that it doesn't make any sense for him to stay at QB. The fans (as far as I can tell) have little personal feelings toward Manning, so there's no sentimentality issues.
He's going to be gone. I'd say he almost certainly retires, barring a late season resurgence and a good playoff run, in which case he ends up in Buffalo or something to squeeze one more year of that arm.
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/denver-broncos
Assuming they cut Manning and the cap is around $153M, and they only have a few million in incentives come through, they will have about 40M in room. They will need to find a quarterback and a couple of offensive linemen in a year where there are not many of them on the market. Kubiak's system will help with that a bit, since they are generally looking for cheaper linemen than other teams. It might make sense for them to cut both Ware and Clady and get that cap space number up to ~$57M.
I throw this out there lightly...... but considering how difficult it is to find a good QB, and Kubiak's system, I think Denver is a good spot for RGIII to land.
Assuming they cut Manning and the cap is around $153M, and they only have a few million in incentives come through, they will have about 40M in room. They will need to find a quarterback and a couple of offensive linemen in a year where there are not many of them on the market. Kubiak's system will help with that a bit, since they are generally looking for cheaper linemen than other teams. It might make sense for them to cut both Ware and Clady and get that cap space number up to ~$57M.
I throw this out there lightly...... but considering how difficult it is to find a good QB, and Kubiak's system, I think Denver is a good spot for RGIII to land.
- Status