2015 Broncos-Peyton's Retirement Party Sunday 1/24/16 3PM ET

[themuddychicken]

If the Broncos win this year their QB (whoever it ends up being in the SB) will clearly be the worst QB to win a Superbowl since the rule changes in '04, right?

I just can't shake the notion that it is a QB league, now even more than ever, and you just can't win it all with the corpse of Peyton Manning or an inexperienced Brock Osweiler (Brock very well might develop into a guy who can win it but that doesn't help Denver this year). 2000-2002, when garbage, inexperience, and garbage won titles is a long time ago.

The Broncos or Chiefs may very well represent the AFC but I just can't see either, with their QBs, beating an NFC team with a stout defense AND a stud QB.

 

[Kevin Youkulele]

If the Broncos win this year their QB (whoever it ends up being in the SB) will clearly be the worst QB to win a Superbowl since the rule changes in '04, right?

I just can't shake the notion that it is a QB league, now even more than ever, and you just can't win it all with the corpse of Peyton Manning or an inexperienced Brock Osweiler (Brock very well might develop into a guy who can win it but that doesn't help Denver this year). 2000-2002, when garbage, inexperience, and garbage won titles is a long time ago.

The Broncos or Chiefs may very well represent the AFC but I just can't see either, with their QBs, beating an NFC team with a stout defense AND a stud QB.

It's honestly hard to see the eventual representative of the AFC as anything but an underdog given that each of the 6 has notable weaknesses.
Broncos: see above
Patriots: O-Line, running game; other injuries?
Bengals: QB, stage fright
Texans: offense in general
Chiefs: see above (QB), also a team that has blown winnable games through stupidity early in the season
Steelers: DBs/defense in general

 

[coremiller]

If the Broncos win this year their QB (whoever it ends up being in the SB) will clearly be the worst QB to win a Superbowl since the rule changes in '04, right?

I just can't shake the notion that it is a QB league, now even more than ever, and you just can't win it all with the corpse of Peyton Manning or an inexperienced Brock Osweiler (Brock very well might develop into a guy who can win it but that doesn't help Denver this year). 2000-2002, when garbage, inexperience, and garbage won titles is a long time ago.

The Broncos or Chiefs may very well represent the AFC but I just can't see either, with their QBs, beating an NFC team with a stout defense AND a stud QB.

The worst so far is 2007 Eli, who was 297/529 (56.1%) for 3336 yards, 23 TDs, 20 INTs, and 27 sacks for 217 yards. That comes out to a 4.82 ANY/A, and 91 ANY/A+. By FO's numbers, he had -190 DYAR (ranked 40th) and -16.4% DVOA (ranked 34th).

This year, Manning has 4.52 ANY/A and Osweiler 5.86. Manning is -328 DYAR/-26.0% DVOA and Osweiler is 153 DYAR/-3.2% DVOA. 2015 Peyton is worse than 2007 Eli, 2015 Osweiler is not.

 

[86spike]

Right now there are only two elite QBs still playing in the AFC and 4 question marks.

 

[Stitch01]

I guess Kubiak could have waited to announce this, but possible he'd rather just not have the media distraction and his players getting asked about it for the next week. This wasn't much of a mystery to begin with, he made the decision to start Manning in the divisional game in the third quarter of the Chargers game. Even if Manning had sucked I don't think Kubiak is the guy to outright bench Manning.

 

[dcmissle]

Handling this smartly, IMO. You don't need the media circus, and there would be no way of creating uncertainty because who is getting the first-team practice reps would surely leak.

Handled the last game well too. They need every inch of HFA to get to the SB; this is not a collection you'd want to take into Fox. The game was in the balance and Os wasn't getting it done.

I don't think Peyton gets pulled unless he repeatedly soils himself early in a playoff game, and I think they will try to manage the offensive game plan to prevent that. They can lean on their defense more than most.

They will be out of the Manning business in a month and carry forward with Os. I think BB would have handled all this the same way.

 

[DanoooME]

They will be out of the Manning business in a month and carry forward with Os. I think BB would have handled all this the same way.

Unless Osweiler tests the market and finds a lot more cash to go elsewhere. Then they will have fucked themselves over because of Manning's ego.

 

[dcmissle]

He is going to be facing an interesting decision, unlike Cousins (who will be in Washington one way or another). I try to look at this objectively, despite the rivalry.

Where is a better place to live and play football? Great owner. Solid management. Rabid fan base. Awesome lifestyle. And during the last 40+ years, when have the Broncos sucked for any extended period of time?

Boston better? Job filled. Seattle? Ditto. San Francisco, Miami? Radioactive franchises of late.

Os is from the west. A relatively short term contract that pays big but not insane money should be really attractive. Unless you want to max out money wise, which probably lands you in a waste dump

 

[j-man]

Unless Osweiler tests the market and finds a lot more cash to go elsewhere. Then they will have fucked themselves over because of Manning's ego.

+ 1 i couild see the rams makeing oz a offer he cant refuse like 15-18 mil a year and then denver is stuck with sam bradford or matt schub for 16

 

[j-man]

He is going to be facing an interesting decision, unlike Cousins (who will be in Washington one way or another). I try to look at this objectively, despite the rivalry.

Where is a better place to live and play football? Great owner. Solid management. Rabid fan base. Awesome lifestyle. And during the last 40+ years, when have the Broncos sucked for any extended period of time?

Boston better? Job filled. Seattle? Ditto. San Francisco, Miami? Radioactive franchises of late.

Os is from the west. A relatively short term contract that pays big but not insane money should be really attractive. Unless you want to max out money wise, which probably lands you in a waste dump

i hope u are right but if i was oz i wouild be pissed off at a benching when only 1 of the 5 turnovers was my fauit i wouild need at min 3y 45 mil from denver

 

[j-man]

If the Broncos win this year their QB (whoever it ends up being in the SB) will clearly be the worst QB to win a Superbowl since the rule changes in '04, right?

I just can't shake the notion that it is a QB league, now even more than ever, and you just can't win it all with the corpse of Peyton Manning or an inexperienced Brock Osweiler (Brock very well might develop into a guy who can win it but that doesn't help Denver this year). 2000-2002, when garbage, inexperience, and garbage won titles is a long time ago.

The Broncos or Chiefs may very well represent the AFC but I just can't see either, with their QBs, beating an NFC team with a stout defense AND a stud QB.

big ben was green in 2005 only had 1 great game in the playoffs @ denver Flakcco had a lot of help in 2012

 

[j-man]

It's honestly hard to see the eventual representative of the AFC as anything but an underdog given that each of the 6 has notable weaknesses.
Broncos: see above
Patriots: O-Line, running game; other injuries?
Bengals: QB, stage fright
Texans: offense in general
Chiefs: see above (QB), also a team that has blown winnable games through stupidity early in the season
Steelers: DBs/defense in general

den or ne is the only teams with a chance to beat the NFC dont be shocked if goodell and his minons go 2 ways A
A pitt/sea SB as Pitt brings the NFL lots of $$$ and people will watch because Pitt is dallas of the AFC u love or hate them and Seattle has lots of star power and this way the NFL can sell the inportice of the WC round

B giveing manning 1 more SB shot aga Sea for Revenage Zona for the Manning artins t moore angale or Car the old star aga the new star

or the best sb matchup NE/ CAR or ZONA

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

big ben was green in 2005 only had 1 great game in the playoffs @ denver Flakcco had a lot of help in 2012

Ben was very good in 2005 except the SB, where he was awful. Flacco was incredible all the way through in 2012. 12TD, INT, 9 YA,10.2 AYA, 1140 yds.

I've been way down on Manning all season, but I can see him performing well if the weather in Denver is okay and he's healthy. After his long layoff, he's probably feeling better than he has in a while. Moreover, the Denver running game is a lot better than it was earlier in the season. But they really need to avoid shootouts--if he starts chucking the ball all over the field he's going to turn it over. Other than Pitt (who I think is losing to the Bengals) all the AFC playoff teams have tough pass defenses.

 

[johnmd20]

big ben was green in 2005 only had 1 great game in the playoffs @ denver Flakcco had a lot of help in 2012

Flacco had a lot of help? It was one of the greatest QB postseasons in NFL history.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

den or ne is the only teams with a chance to beat the NFC dont be shocked if goodell and his minons go 2 ways A
A pitt/sea SB as Pitt brings the NFL lots of $$$ and people will watch because Pitt is dallas of the AFC u love or hate them and Seattle has lots of star power and this way the NFL can sell the inportice of the WC round

B giveing manning 1 more SB shot aga Sea for Revenage Zona for the Manning artins t moore angale or Car the old star aga the new star

or the best sb matchup NE/ CAR or ZONA

J-man...

Ya gotta stop it with these conspiracy theories...the NFl doesn't "decide" who will be in the Super Bowl. Never has, never will.

 

[j-man]

J-man...

Ya gotta stop it with these conspiracy theories...the NFl doesn't "decide" who will be in the Super Bowl. Never has, never will.

i understand your thinking on that they might not 100% but i have seen too much fishiness over the years my choice of words is wrong but they have their preferences

 

[j-man]

Ben was very good in 2005 except the SB, where he was awful. Flacco was incredible all the way through in 2012. 12TD, INT, 9 YA,10.2 AYA, 1140 yds.

I've been way down on Manning all season, but I can see him performing well if the weather in Denver is okay and he's healthy. After his long layoff, he's probably feeling better than he has in a while. Moreover, the Denver running game is a lot better than it was earlier in the season. But they really need to avoid shootouts--if he starts chucking the ball all over the field he's going to turn it over. Other than Pitt (who I think is losing to the Bengals) all the AFC playoff teams have tough pass defenses.

flacco to me was more great in the clutch more in 12 then anything the indy and ne games was more def wins to me and on ben in 2005 people foget if he does not make that tacklie pitt loses @ indy

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Wolfe gets locked up


For #Broncos DE Derek Wolfe, he gets $17.5M in guarantees on his 4-year, $36.7M deal ($9.175M average).

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Wolfe gets locked up


For #Broncos DE Derek Wolfe, he gets $17.5M in guarantees on his 4-year, $36.7M deal ($9.175M average).

My first thought was he blows out his knee on Sunday. I hope he doesn't but this couldn't wait a few days / 3 weeks?

 

[Sox and Rocks]

It appears they've chosen him over Malik Jackson moving forward since both are (were) free agents this offseason.

Jackson's been more consistent, but Wolfe definitely came on strong this year. He picked a good year to do it

 

[86spike]

My first thought was he blows out his knee on Sunday. I hope he doesn't but this couldn't wait a few days / 3 weeks?

I guess Elway just wants to lock in a few pieces now if possible before the Von Miller free agency circus arrives and Jerry Jones starts throwing money at him.

That risk is there with every deal in this game. Ryan Clady signed a big extension one year and blew out his ACL playing hoops before he saw another snap. It can happen and sometimes you roll the dice.

 

[86spike]

It appears they've chosen him over Malik Jackson moving forward since both are (were) free agents this offseason.

Jackson's been more consistent, but Wolfe definitely came on strong this year. He picked a good year to do it

Perhaps, but it could also mean they're letting Ware go and not going after a guy like Danny Trevathan. Malik could still be on the wishlist.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Perhaps, but it could also mean they're letting Ware go and not going after a guy like Danny Trevathan. Malik could still be on the wishlist.

I assume Ware is gone. Hard to justify his coin given his age and injury history with Ray and Barrett waiting in the wings. Still, though, not sure if they can afford Malik, too, with miller breaking the bank and needing to address QB and the Oline

 

[j-man]

ware is gone manning too clady will be cut those 3 moves saves denver 31 mil plus vauzques and the p being cut wouild save 6.5 mil as well

 

[86spike]

ware is gone manning too clady will be cut those 3 moves saves denver 31 mil plus vauzques and the p being cut wouild save 6.5 mil as well

Colquitt too.

 

[BernieRicoBoomer]

ware is gone manning too clady will be cut those 3 moves saves denver 31 mil plus vauzques and the p being cut wouild save 6.5 mil as well

I think they should make some cuts this week...so they don't forget to do it. Maybe Talib and Sanders too, just in case?

 

[Sox and Rocks]

ware is gone manning too clady will be cut those 3 moves saves denver 31 mil plus vauzques and the p being cut wouild save 6.5 mil as well

This sounds well and good, but that cap room won't go far. Miller will cost something in the 10-16 range depending on whether they tag him or sign long term. Osweiler may cost slightly more given how coveted QBs are. Add the 8-9 they already spent on Wolfe and they will have to spend 30-40 on just those three. Any remaining amount will have to go to the oline and their draft picks.

I think Jackson and travathan are definitely gone along with the others you mentioned

 

[bankshot1]

Question for primarily Bronco fans:

How did you guys feel about the play against the Steelers when Peyton under pressure hit the deck/or fell, then (to me) slowly got up, didn't get killed and then completed a pass.

Should he have been called down?

And if no, how would you have felt in the process of him getting up slowly if he had been nailed?

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Question for primarily Bronco fans:

How did you guys feel about the play against the Steelers when Peyton under pressure hit the deck/or fell, then (to me) slowly got up, didn't get killed and then completed a pass.

Should he have been called down?

And if no, how would you have felt in the process of him getting up slowly if he had been nailed?

Even Peyton, always careful with his words, essentially admitted he got away with that. There's no question what he was doing, which is what he always does in avoiding hits, and the refs absolutely should have blown the whistle and stopped the play.

It was the Broncos biggest offensive play all game, too, and while it didn't result in points on that drive, it did help change field position in a helpful way.

 

[jablo1312]

*3:00 PM Eastern

 

[Dogman]

Thanks, updated.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

I really think it is interesting that they chose Wolfe over Jackson. They are identical players statistically, but Jackson has always looked better on tape to me and is not in the program like Wolfe is. Outside of personal factors that only people in the locker room would know, the most likely scenario seems to be that they offered both of them the same deal and Wolfe took while Jackson figured he could get more on the open market.

 

[j-man]

This sounds well and good, but that cap room won't go far. Miller will cost something in the 10-16 range depending on whether they tag him or sign long term. Osweiler may cost slightly more given how coveted QBs are. Add the 8-9 they already spent on Wolfe and they will have to spend 30-40 on just those three. Any remaining amount will have to go to the oline and their draft picks.

I think Jackson and travathan are definitely gone along with the others you mentioned

the key for denver in future seasons is oz if he is a top 10 12 QB then denver will be ravens west winning 9-12 games a year and being in the mix every year

if oz sucks oakland will rule the west

 

[j-man]

I really think it is interesting that they chose Wolfe over Jackson. They are identical players statistically, but Jackson has always looked better on tape to me and is not in the program like Wolfe is. Outside of personal factors that only people in the locker room would know, the most likely scenario seems to be that they offered both of them the same deal and Wolfe took while Jackson figured he could get more on the open market.

Wolfe is a better fit for Kollar denver d-line coach while jackson is very good he is prone to overagg play at times i think Jackson is going to Chicago if oakland gm wouild spend some cash he couild be a 9 - 12 sack machine in oakland

 

[j-man]

Question for primarily Bronco fans:

How did you guys feel about the play against the Steelers when Peyton under pressure hit the deck/or fell, then (to me) slowly got up, didn't get killed and then completed a pass.

Should he have been called down?

And if no, how would you have felt in the process of him getting up slowly if he had been nailed?

i throuht he was down manning gets hit hard once a game now i am used to it

 

[j-man]

This sounds well and good, but that cap room won't go far. Miller will cost something in the 10-16 range depending on whether they tag him or sign long term. Osweiler may cost slightly more given how coveted QBs are. Add the 8-9 they already spent on Wolfe and they will have to spend 30-40 on just those three. Any remaining amount will have to go to the oline and their draft picks.

I think Jackson and travathan are definitely gone along with the others you mentioned

we will fran miller and that will be 13.5 a year at least for 16 oz will be 12-15 mil a year but i couild see a sight hometown discount as elway couild try to make it 11-12 mil a year but boost to 15 mil a year if oz likes throw for 20 td's starts 16 games etc in kubiak system u can get o-line cheap as denver will only need 2 o-line starters 1 if clady re-does his deal i think they might try schofield at rg if i was elway i wouild get the best OT in round 1 then hope huntner henry is on the board make a trade with new orlans in round 1 for a 2 in 16 denver 1st in 17 and denver 3 in 17

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Who all is going?

I'm planning to, but worried about my flight getting out of NYC Saturday afternoon....

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Does anyone have a gif or a link to the Peyton giving himself up and then getting back up play? I can't find it. Thanks.

 

[Bowhemian]

You can find it here: http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/1/18/10785908/peyton-manning-broncos-self-sack-broncos-steelers-emmanuel-sanders
But if you do a google search for Peyton Manning self sack, you will get tons of results.
Just be careful when you google anything + self sack.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Lol, thanks.

 

[86spike]

Question for primarily Bronco fans:

How did you guys feel about the play against the Steelers when Peyton under pressure hit the deck/or fell, then (to me) slowly got up, didn't get killed and then completed a pass.

Should he have been called down?

And if no, how would you have felt in the process of him getting up slowly if he had been nailed?

He was totally doing his patented turtle self sack move and should have been ruled down. I think he started to get back up about a millisecond before the ref was gonna whistle it and that froze the ref.

My internal dialogue on that play went something like this:

"Fuckin Manning and his turtle move.... Oh wait.... Whoa... Oooo, nice move... LOL.... Dodged one there!"

Luckily for Pitt, they didn't end up scoring on that drive.

I really think it is interesting that they chose Wolfe over Jackson. They are identical players statistically, but Jackson has always looked better on tape to me and is not in the program like Wolfe is. Outside of personal factors that only people in the locker room would know, the most likely scenario seems to be that they offered both of them the same deal and Wolfe took while Jackson figured he could get more on the open market.

One of the Denver reporters had a source saying that Elway made the same offer to Jackson first. Jackson declined and it went to Wolfe, who accepted it.

While they are similar players on paper, Jackson has had games where he disappears and I think Wolfe is really just now coming into his own and may be on a slightly upward curve. Remember, he missed most of a season with some strange seizure issues so assuming those past, he has a little more tread on the tires when compared to other 4 year vets.

I'm down with the move. I like the kid and he has been a force down the stretch.

 

[BigJimEd]

Even Peyton, always careful with his words, essentially admitted he got away with that. There's no question what he was doing, which is what he always does in avoiding hits, and the refs absolutely should have blown the whistle and stopped the play.

It was the Broncos biggest offensive play all game, too, and while it didn't result in points on that drive, it did help change field position in a helpful way.

The quote I read Manning said he told Sanders to be ready for it like he planned it.

Did anyone see that interview/quote? Was Manning joking or is he really saying he planned it and told Sanders about it?

 

[DJnVa]

Luckily for Pitt, they didn't end up scoring on that drive.

It changed field position, leading to a longer Pitt drive, which ended with a Toussaint fumble.

 

[simplyeric]

I wonder about the self-sack there. There's a difference between 'giving yourself up' and 'going down because you think you're going to get hit.
Let's say Edelman catches a pass and does a spin and dive forward, thinking he's going to get clobbered otherwise...but let's say the defensive player jumped the route and was actually in front of Edleman. So edelman catches and dives, totally untouched...can't he get up and run from there?
That's different than 'I need this play to end so I'm giving up completely by kneeling/sliding' (QB run, touchback, late game situation to burn the clock, etc)

 

[steveluck7]

isn't sliding feet first vs. diving head first what distinguishes the two? I always thought a feet first slide was essentially the end of the play

 

[amarshal2]

isn't sliding feet first vs. diving head first what distinguishes the two? I always thought a feet first slide was essentially the end of the play

Right. That's the problem with it from my perspective. I don't think that Manning was intending to give himself up necessarily, but as soon as you slide feet first as a QB you're down and that's not what the officials called.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

My best interpretation of the play is that he did genuinely just slip when stepping up in the pocket, then decided to give himself up as he was on the way down (which is why he stays down for a half beat turtled over the ball), then realized nobody had touched him and got up and made the throw.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Right. That's the problem with it from my perspective. I don't think that Manning was intending to give himself up necessarily, but as soon as you slide feet first as a QB you're down and that's not what the officials called.

Technically, this sliding rule only applies to "runners." Its not completely clear to me whether a QB stepping up in the middle of the pocket would qualify.

 

[Pandemonium67]

There's the feet-first slide for the QB, but there's also giving yourself up -- such as when a DB goes down after an interception to avoid fumbling. That's what Peyton's move looked like, and should have been called as such.

 

[Otis Foster]

we will fran miller and that will be 13.5 a year at least for 16 oz will be 12-15 mil a year but i couild see a sight hometown discount as elway couild try to make it 11-12 mil a year but boost to 15 mil a year if oz likes throw for 20 td's starts 16 games etc in kubiak system u can get o-line cheap as denver will only need 2 o-line starters 1 if clady re-does his deal i think they might try schofield at rg if i was elway i wouild get the best OT in round 1 then hope huntner henry is on the board make a trade with new orlans in round 1 for a 2 in 16 denver 1st in 17 and denver 3 in 17

Please stop channeling e.e.cummings