2015-2016 NC Hoops: Turning the Paige

[tims4wins]

Tyus Jones announced he is leaving today
 
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12694251/tyus-jones-duke-blue-devils-enter-nba-draft
 
Winslow, Jones, Okafor all gone. Grayson's time to shine.

 

[IdiotKicker]

Curious what K is going to do at the point next year. Might be a situation like 09-10 where Scheyer was running things.

 

[DukeSox]

they are trying to get a '16 grad to reclass to '15 and come in.  Think both Duke and L'ville are pursuing him to do that.

 

[Greg29fan]

they are trying to get a '16 grad to reclass to '15 and come in.  Think both Duke and L'ville are pursuing him to do that.

 
This guy
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Derryck-Thornton-141424

 

[IdiotKicker]

Interesting. Another issue related to this, is that if my count is correct, they only have 7 scholarship players next year with Obi eligible to play after sitting out this year. So if you thought this year's bench was short, just wait until next year.

 

[DukeSox]

You're right.
 
"7 is sufficient"

 

[Drocca]

I expect them to get Brandon Ingram though.

 

[minischwab]

 
This guy
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Derryck-Thornton-141424

 
Hearing this is pretty much a done deal at this point.  Along with that, Ingram likely will end up at UK or Duke, and then Duke is also a finalist for Villanova transfer Dylan Ennis, who will be eligible immediately as a graduate transfer next season.  
 
Duke is also working on trying to get G Jamal Murray to reclassify and join them next season.  Murray scored 30 Pts for the World Team in the Nike Hoop Summit game last week. 
 
EDIT:
Duke also is at 8 for next year anyway, they have this kid:
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/15/6-foot-11-center-antonio-vrankovic-commits-to-duke/
 
He's a project at BEST, but still will be on scholarship.  Also David Robinson's 6'6" son will be a walk-on (not much of a player, but still).

 

[DukeSox]

Ingram announcing 1 week from today.  

 

[minischwab]

Done deal: 
Junior Derryck Thornton, the 11th overall player in the ESPN 60, has decided to re-classify up to the class of 2015 and commit to Duke to be their point guard for the 2015-16 season.
 
He now stands as the third-ranked point guard and the 17th overall player in 2015.

 

[IdiotKicker]

Full link:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/12734195/duke-blue-devils-land-derryck-thornton-play-pg-next-season?ex_cid=espnapi_internal

 

[DukeSox]

So sick. Frosh PG so it's gonna be bumpy coming off the heels of the best frosh Pg ever, but should be okay with some of the players he'll have around him

 

[minischwab]

This should help Duke's final push for Ingram.  And they're still trying to get Murray to reclassify as well.  Add both those guys and Duke has the No. 1 class in the country and is a final four favorite.  Even Ingram alone should be enough for that bump.  Stunned ESPN still has UK's class about LSU's, LSU clearly has the best class as of now (UK may add a lot more, but until they do, it's pure speculation).  

 

[DukeSox]

K going all in to F U Cal

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

So sick. Frosh PG so it's gonna be bumpy coming off the heels of the best frosh Pg ever, but should be okay with some of the players he'll have around him

 
For now, I'm going to let you bask in the mind numbing afterglow of winning the national championship, but when you come to your senses start a "best Duke freshman point guard ever" thread so we can have a nice civilized discussion about Jason Williams.

 

[minischwab]

 
For now, I'm going to let you bask in the mind numbing afterglow of winning the national championship, but when you come to your senses start a "best Duke freshman point guard ever" thread so we can have a nice civilized discussion about Jason Williams.

 
According to many Coach K interviews, Jay wouldn't even crack his top 3.  Amaker has always been K's gold standard for freshman PG, and K compared Tyus to Amaker this season, making them 1-2 on his list.  Then there was that Hurley guy, who put up a mind-blowing 288 assists. 
 
Jay is one of my favorite CBB players ever.  But as a freshman he was out of control a lot of the time. 
 
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/mens-basketball/article12993509.html
 
In the first version of Duke-UNC, Jones had nine points in the final 1:25 of regulation to force overtime, and coach Mike Krzyzewski spoke of Jones’ special qualities (in addition to his talent) – intangibles caused the Blue Devils to make him the only point guard they recruited for three years. And after Jones’ latest big-game masterpiece, Krzyzewski was asked to put his play in context: Had the longtime coach ever seen a freshman consistently pace a team when the stakes were highest?
“I’ve seen it from a freshman,” Krzyzewski said. “Like (Tommy) Amaker. (Bobby) Hurley.
He paused.
“Okay. That’s it.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/mens-basketball/article12993509.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Drocca]

As a Carolina fan, the highlight of my year was Tyus Jones announcing he is going to the NBA.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

 
 
According to many Coach K interviews, Jay wouldn't even crack his top 3.  

 
Coach K talks alot, so we could probably do this all day. Here he talking about Okafor and comparing him to the National Player of the Year caliber players he's coached (Irving, Hill, Williams). Granted he's talking about college players translating to great pro's, but I found this in about 30 seconds. I'm sure we've got some contradicting quotes from K on his favorites if we dig for a few minutes.
 

 
 
“He’s as good as anybody I’ve coached at Duke,” Krzyzewski said. “I think, as a pro, I didn’t get a chance to coach Kyrie (Irving) only 11 games, he’s of that ilk, of Grant Hill’s ilk, actually Jason Williams, if he didn’t get hurt. You’re talking about National Player of the Year caliber and then the type of talent that translates into being a great pro.”

 
http://jimrome.com/2015/02/26/coach-k-on-jahlil-okafor-hes-as-good-as-anybody-ive-coached-at-duke/

 

[minischwab]

 
Coach K talks alot, so we could probably do this all day. Here he talking about Okafor and comparing him to the National Player of the Year caliber players he's coached (Irving, Hill, Williams). Granted he's talking about college players translating to great pro's, but I found this in about 30 seconds. I'm sure we've got some contradicting quotes from K on his favorites if we dig for a few minutes.
 
 
http://jimrome.com/2015/02/26/coach-k-on-jahlil-okafor-hes-as-good-as-anybody-ive-coached-at-duke/

 
Never heard K compare anyone to Amaker until this season.  We're not talking about best players at Duke, no one would argue that.  We're saying best freshman PG at Duke and K has ALWAYS said it's Amaker by a mile, until this year when he started discussing Tyus in that class.  

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Like I said earlier, maybe DukeSox will start a thread.

 

[minischwab]

Ingram to Duke!!

So Duke is pretty well re-loaded for next season, shouls be a top-5 preseason squad now.

 

[Greg29fan]

I'll say this, and I would have said it if he had picked UNC too - he is a supreme talent, but I have no idea how his body type is going to hold up in the "new" ACC.
 
Ingram is skinnier than John Henson was when he came to Chapel Hill, and John was like rail thin.

 

[minischwab]

Far better shooter than Henson was. K will use him as a stretch 4 at times butwith Obi, plumlee, jefferson and jeter, ingram will get plenty of minutes at the 3 too. A lineup with plumlee, jeter and ingram at forward and kennard and jones as guards in a 2-3 zone would be impossible to shoot over, if K brings that zone back next season.

Ingram says unc's academic issues were a big factor in his decision. Unc mad a huge mistake by not self-imposing when they knew about this. Will continue to hurt them if it hangs over the program.

 

[Greg29fan]

Far better shooter than Henson was. K will use him as a stretch 4 at times butwith Obi, plumlee, jefferson and jeter, ingram will get plenty of minutes at the 3 too. A lineup with plumlee, jeter and ingram at forward and kennard and jones as guards in a 2-3 zone would be impossible to shoot over, if K brings that zone back next season.

Ingram says unc's academic issues were a big factor in his decision. Unc mad a huge mistake by not self-imposing when they knew about this. Will continue to hurt them if it hangs over the program.

 
Self imposing is a complete crock of bullshit.
 
One, there's zero evidence men's basketball is even going to get punished (no Notice of Allegations has been received by the university, so nobody, not you, not me, not a soul knows what's going to happen or not happen) and two, there's zero guarantee the NCAA would even accept that that's it if they do punish.  So you've either punished yourself for no reason or punished yourself and still get tacked on.  
 
Furthermore, they're getting punished NOW by the NCAA by the NCAA's inaction.  That's a sanction in and of itself.

 

[DukeSox]

Rich get richer.

 

[Greg29fan]

UNC got a commitment from Kenny Williams this afternoon - He had committed to VCU but re-opened his recruitment after Shaka left.  Three point shooter and maker (47%).
 
http://scouthoops.scout.com/player/7581225n-kenny-williams

 

[Drocca]

So stoked to get him, it's been rough from beyond the arc lately.

 

[Greg29fan]

So stoked to get him, it's been rough from beyond the arc lately.

 
His AAU coach Boo Williams said he's the best shooter he's had since J.J. Redick

 

[Greg29fan]

UNC plays Maryland and Duke plays Indiana in the Big Ten/ACC challenge this year

 

[tims4wins]

Gut died today. RIP.

 

[Greg29fan]

Gut died today. RIP.

 
Been a sad year for sure

 

[sachmoney]

UNC received their notice of allegations.

 

[tims4wins]

If only Goodell were in charge... alas

 

[minischwab]

Keep in mind, it took 4 YEARS after the notice of allegations was sent for the NCAA to actually discipline Syracuse.  Don't expect a speedy resolution here.  

 

[tims4wins]

So we can expect Roy to retire sometime spring/summer 2018 or 2019?

 

[DukeSox]

Good - 4 more years of overhang to the UNC program, losing players, etc. 
 
If they had manned the fuck up 3 years ago or whenever this came out and disclosed everything, they wouldn't be in this situation today.  Made their own bed.

 

[Drocca]

Good - 4 more years of overhang to the UNC program, losing players, etc. 
 
If they had manned the fuck up 3 years ago or whenever this came out and disclosed everything, they wouldn't be in this situation today.  Made their own bed.

 
Of if they, you know, hadn't put the basketball team and football team ahead of the University as an educational institution and defiled a perfectly good major by reinforcing many of the stereotypes said major was interested in studying. 

 

[Greg29fan]

Good - 4 more years of overhang to the UNC program, losing players, etc. 
 
If they had manned the fuck up 3 years ago or whenever this came out and disclosed everything, they wouldn't be in this situation today.  Made their own bed.

 
It wasn't because they weren't "manning the fuck up" - it was because the two biggest pieces of the puzzle weren't talking because they had criminal charges pending and until those charges were dropped by the Orange County DA, that situation was not going to change.
 
I mean honestly, whatever you think of the University of North Carolina, this thing was investigated by Jim Martin, Ken Wainstein, and the NCAA at least two times.  It's been a complete and thorough rectal exam that the university has aided and welcomed with spread butt cheeks at every turn.
 
We've been over this so many times that it makes my eyes bleed.

 

[DukeSox]

 
Of if they, you know, hadn't put the basketball team and football team ahead of the University as an educational institution and defiled a perfectly good major by reinforcing many of the stereotypes said major was interested in studying. 

 
Well, yes, but people seem to ignore the root cause here - see the post immediately above.

 

[Average Reds]

 
It wasn't because they weren't "manning the fuck up" - it was because the two biggest pieces of the puzzle weren't talking because they had criminal charges pending and until those charges were dropped by the Orange County DA, that situation was not going to change.
 
I mean honestly, whatever you think of the University of North Carolina, this thing was investigated by Jim Martin, Ken Wainstein, and the NCAA at least two times.  It's been a complete and thorough rectal exam that the university has aided and welcomed with spread butt cheeks at every turn.
 
We've been over this so many times that it makes my eyes bleed.

Agree that we have been over this any times and there has been a lot of willful blindness. The rest of your points, not so much.

I will say that as a Michigan grad I do sympathize in terms of watching your alma mater get raked over the coals. Painful but necessary.

Drocca's post before yours is instructive in terms of the larger point.

 

[minischwab]

Looks like UNC Men's Hoops will escape the NOA madness:


[SIZE=10pt]Adam Gold‏@AGoldFan[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Hearing that the NOA will spare men's basketball of penalties. Charges aimed at football based on impermissible benefits. #NOA #UNC[/SIZE]



[SIZE=10pt]Adam Gold ‏@AGoldFan[/SIZE]  2m2 minutes ago
[SIZE=10pt]Quick correction on initial tweet on NOA. Meant to say spare men's basketball of allegations, not penalties. Penalty phase is later. Sorry[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]Edit:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Report is out: [/SIZE]http://3qh929iorux3fdpl532k03kg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/NCAA-NOA.pdf
Almost nothing on men's hoops

 

[Greg29fan]

Anybody saying men's hoops is going to escape penalties are on drugs.  This was about as bad as it could be.

 

[DukeSox]

Anybody saying men's hoops is going to escape penalties are on drugs.  This was about as bad as it could be.

 
Especially since nothing improper even happened in the first place

 

[DukeSox]

Yeah, the 5 allegations are all against the academic profs, not the athletic dept.  Sports will be fine.

 

[Greg29fan]

"The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that went unchecked for 18 years. This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball."

That's a death blow.

 

[Average Reds]

 
Especially since nothing improper even happened in the first place

 
When someone changes their position on an issue as completely as Greg29fan has, it might be time to go easy on the shadenfreude.
 
Just a suggestion.

 

[Greg29fan]

I think I did a poor job trying to convey that in earlier discussions what I believed happened was based on Governor Martin's report. I did say, repeatedly, that Mr. Wainstein would have access that Governor Martin was not able to get and that we would see what it had to say and that my opinion was subject to change after his report.

 

[DukeSox]

"The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that went unchecked for 18 years. This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball."

That's a death blow.

No it's not - look at the bolded.  It would be bad if it said "individuals within the athletics department"

 

[DukeSox]

 
When someone changes their position on an issue as completely as Greg29fan has, it might be time to go easy on the shadenfreude.
 
Just a suggestion.

Wait where has that happened?  

 

[Greg29fan]

I'm pretty sure in one of the myriad of threads on the subject that after Wainstein came out I said my opinion had changed. Anyways for the record it has. The only thing I disagree with is Minischwab about self-imposing punishments.