2014 Penn State Football - The Beginning of a New Era

SoxJox

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Well, with BO'B's departure, Franklin's arrival, it's time to move on and transition to a new discussion, such as who does Franklin keep and/or bring in for his staff; how will the 2014 verbal commits react on National LOI Day February 5th?
 
For one, the obvious: Franklin must keep LJ and in fact elevate him to DC.
 
Second, I think Franklin's hire might bring Michael O'Connor back into the fold, given Franklin's offensive mindedness.  Of course one of the challenges will be with current starting QB Hackenberg, who will now need to pick up a whole new play book.  I've not followed Vandy to see what kind of offense they run, but it likely might turn out being a bit more wide open than the traditional PSU offense.  I'm guessing Hack will start out in the shotgun much more often this year.
 
But he will be missing a BIG piece with Allen Robinson's imminent departure for the NFL.  Penn State does have a corral full of big TEs, but they really were thin behind Robinson and senior Brandon Felder, who also is now gone.
 
Here's what BO'B left in the commit pool (from 247 Sports):
 
The National Rank = 20; B1G Rank = 3; Avg Rating = 0.8756
 
[Note: First row of Star Rating/Score Rating/NTL/POS/ST = 247 Sports Rating; 2nd row is national composite]
 
  [tablegrid= 2104 Penn State Football Commits ] POS Interest Star Rating Score Rating NTL POS ST Signed Letter of Intent (1)               Tarow Barney   DT Signed   3-star 0.8747 39 8 10 Northwest Mississippi C.C. (Senatobia, MS)   6-1/285 12/18/2013 4-star 90 39 12 8                 Hard Commits (18)               Thomas Holley   DT Commit   4-star 0.9579 87 5 2 Abraham Lincoln (Brooklyn, NY)   6-4/285 12/17/2013 5-star 98 23 5 1                 Chris Godwin   WR Commit   4-star 0.9234 179 27 1 Middletown (Middletown, DE)   6-1/193 4/23/2013 4-star 92 236 33 1                 Mike Gesicki   TE Commit   4-star 0.9138 206 5 6 Southern Reg (Manahawkin, NJ)   6-5/236 10/17/2013 4-star 97 50 1 2                 DeAndre Thompkins   WR Commit   4-star 0.9133 209 32 10 Swansboro (Swansboro, NC)   6-0/170 4/20/2013 4-star 94 152 24 7                 Michael O'Connor   PRO Commit   4-star 0.9012 254 12 34 IMG Academy (Bradenton, FL)   6-4/223 6/8/2013 4-star 90 NA 17 42                 Marcus Allen   S Commit   4-star 0.8879 337 27 5 Dr. Henry Wise (Upper Marlboro, MD)   6-2/190 5/10/2013 4-star 90 NA 28 7                 Troy Vincent   CB Commit   3-star 0.8863 345 26 7 Gilman (Baltimore, MD)   5-10/192 6/26/2013 3-star 88 NA 42 14                 Troy Apke   WR Commit   3-star 0.8848 357 45 9 Mt. Lebanon (Pittsburgh, PA)   6-1/187 4/13/2013 3-star 88 NA 75 18                 Johnathan Thomas   RB Commit   3-star 0.8697 495 32 2 St. John's Prep (Danvers, MA)   5-11/205 10/20/2013 3-star 88 NA 26 1                 Troy Reeder   ILB Commit   3-star 0.8687 504 23 2 Salesianum (Wilmington, DE)   6-2/230 2/26/2013 3-star 87 NA 27 2                 Noah Beh   OT Commit   3-star 0.8675 517 45 14 Scranton Prep (Scranton, PA)   6-6/260 6/1/2013 3-star 89 NA 38 12                 Nick Scott   ATH Commit   3-star 0.8634 571 51 20 Fairfax (Fairfax, VA)   5-11/188 2/23/2013 3-star 88 NA 46 19                 Daquan Worley   CB Commit   3-star 0.8594 644 42 18 Coatesville Area (Coatesville, PA)   5-11/170 5/3/2013 3-star 88 NA 51 19                 Antoine White   DT Commit   3-star 0.8553 721 49 19 Millville Senior (Millville, NJ)   6-3/265 7/1/2013 3-star 87 NA 46 19                 Mark Allen   RB Commit   3-star 0.8507 812 53 21 DeMatha Catholic (Hyattsville, MD)   5-7/185 10/16/2012 3-star 87 NA 38 18                 Jason Cabinda   ATH Commit   3-star 0.8256 NA 121 33 Hunterdon Central (Flemington, NJ)   6-1/220 10/23/2013 3-star 86 NA 68 22                 Chasz Wright   OT Commit   3-star 0.8233 13 3 2 "Milford Academy (New Berlin, NY)   Early Graduate" 6-6/285 12/28/2013 3-star 87 9 3 1                 Donte Raymond   OLB Commit   3-star 0.81 NA 116 40 Rahway (Rahway, NJ)   6-1/205 12/16/2013 3-star 81 NA 105 43  [/tablegrid]
 

SoxJox

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Also, Franklin's strong ties to Maryland and Pennsylvania certainly will help him solidify recruiting along the middle eastern seaboard and within surrounding areas, but perhaps his SEC recruiting experience will help expand that sphere of influence a bit further south.  As I understand it, he is an energetic and enthusiastic recruiter.
 

SoxJox

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Fred in Lynn said:
Or it could bring Carta-Samuels to Penn State. He's an announced he's reopening his recruitment. Whomever it is better be ready to redshirt and sit a couple years.
Hmm.interesting, although O'Connell is a higher-rated prospect.  But with HS kids, how do you know?  I do see here that Carta-Samuels' interest in any school is not particularly strong, although they do include B1G schools Wisconsin and Northwestern.  But most of his schools are PAC-10, as you would expect for a San Jose native.  Still, his older brother can extol the virtues of having played for Franklin, and you may be onto something.  Talk about stretching the recruiting envelope.  
 

SoxJox

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canderson said:
Franklin, whom it know very little about, won that press conference. Holy shit.
Agreed.  For those interested:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFCxU8zq4ok
 
Edit: His two girls obviously like him.
 
Edit 2: An important point that he will not release staff announcements piecemeal (e.g., LJ), but will wait until all staff are hired and in place.  Of course, as he also acknowledges, social media makes it very hard to keep things under wraps on these types of matters.
 

terrynever

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I spent Saturday afternoon in a bar about 10 minutes from where Franklin played high school football. The press conference played very big. Lot of pride among the customers in having a home-state coach taking over. Even Paterno couldn't claim Native Son rights. Let's see how he handles Larry Johnson this week.
 

SoxJox

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SoxJox

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"News", or better characterized as speculation until formally announced, on the coaching staff developments.
 
"The other part is that defensive line coach Sean Spencer isn't in that group, meaning there's still hope that Larry Johnson will be a part of Franklin's Penn State team, which wouldn't just be doing right for a man who's exuded all things Penn State for the better part of two decades but also would serve to keep as much of the incoming recruiting class intact as possible, especially its headliner, defensive tackle Thomas Holley."
 
"...the lack of John Donovan's name on that list is conspicuous by its absence. Donovan, who was Franklin's offensive coordinator and running backs coach at Vanderbilt, was coming off of a mediocre season--the Commodores ranked just 10th in the SEC in total offense last year and dead last in rushing--and could signal that Franklin is on the lookout for a big name, or at least a better fit than Donovan's spread schemes, to coach up Christian Hackenberg, the sort of pro-style passer he never had at Vandy."  If this is true, perhaps my earlier comments about more spread sets and shotgun could be wrong.  Who knows at the moment?
 
One thing that has been reported in the past: Franklin is "fiercely" loyal to has [former] Vandy staff.
 

terrynever

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Bob Flounders of pen live.com just tweeted that LJ turned down an offer to remain as DL coach. He's moving on. Story to follow soon. Hope this doesn't send Thomas Holley elsewhere. Kind of doubt it.
 

sachmoney

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terrynever said:
Bob Flounders of pen live.com just tweeted that LJ turned down an offer to remain as DL coach. He's moving on. Story to follow soon. Hope this doesn't send Thomas Holley elsewhere. Kind of doubt it.
Ohio State apparently has reached out to LJ to fill the vacant spot left by Vrabel.
 

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terrynever said:
No different than Franklin bringing two or three of his Vandy recruits with him.
Franklin is really trying to crush his former employer huh? Lots of stories about he's flipping kids he formerly recruited. Isn't this generally looked down upon?

Also, is the quiet period over? I read a story about how a former Vandy player flipped on the phone this weekend. Isn't that a violation?
 

canderson

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Dave Stapleton said:
Franklin is really trying to crush his former employer huh? Lots of stories about he's flipping kids he formerly recruited. Isn't this generally looked down upon?

Also, is the quiet period over? I read a story about how a former Vandy player flipped on the phone this weekend. Isn't that a violation?
Generally, yes. He's in a bit of a different situation jumping from a school completely devoid of football history for Penn State but this will come back to bite him IMO.
 
After hearing him speak in some videos and knowing his schedule the past few days, dude's a great salesman. Time will tell if it's legit or he's just pushing used cars.
 

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terrynever said:
No different than Franklin bringing two or three of his Vandy recruits with him.
I was just responding to what you posted in the bold below.  You said you doubted Holley would leave PSU, even if LJ moved on.  OSU had been recruiting Holley, and I stated LJ's move to OSU would likely mean Holley would follow.  I have no idea why you brought Franklin in it.
 
terrynever said:
Bob Flounders of pen live.com just tweeted that LJ turned down an offer to remain as DL coach. He's moving on. Story to follow soon. Hope this doesn't send Thomas Holley elsewhere. Kind of doubt it.
 
 
 
 
Dave Stapleton said:
Franklin is really trying to crush his former employer huh? Lots of stories about he's flipping kids he formerly recruited. Isn't this generally looked down upon?

Also, is the quiet period over? I read a story about how a former Vandy player flipped on the phone this weekend. Isn't that a violation?
Franklin has a bit of a history of being a scumbag hypocrite on this issue:
 http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2012/02/10/vanderbilt-coach-elaborates-on-controversial-comments-on-de-commitments-and-the-uga-recruit-that-flipped/
 

terrynever

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Only brought it up in interest of fairness. Nothing intended at your post. Just saying, as an alum, that this kind of aggressive recruiting cuts both ways.
Urban Meyer created a stir inside the Big Ten after signing with Ohio State when he started going after recruits who had verbally committed to other Big Ten schools. Several coaches were pretty upset but Meyer said this is how he recruited at Florida. The implication was that if the conference wants to compete at a higher level, it better recruit more aggressively and drop the gentleman's agreements.
BTW, Holley hasn't changed his mind yet. He still might have a clearer path to playing early if he goes to Penn State. And it is five hours closer to home. So it will be interesting to see if Franklin can hold on to him.
 

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Dave Stapleton said:
Franklin is really trying to crush his former employer huh? Lots of stories about he's flipping kids he formerly recruited. Isn't this generally looked down upon?

Also, is the quiet period over? I read a story about how a former Vandy player flipped on the phone this weekend. Isn't that a violation?
 
Coaches can call during the dead period (12/16-1/15), but no visits by coaches or recruits. They can have in-person contact with players who enroll mid-year
 

Fred in Lynn

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The only leverage prospects have is in selecting where they choose to go to school and play football. I have a hard time criticizing them for flipping, which is a derogatory term for "changing their minds within the promulgated period for doing so." The Meyer style of recruiting verbally committed prospects is shady and slimy if you're a fan of another school and aggressive if you're a fan of the school doing the recruiting. Most importantly it's an opportunity to make the best judgement possible if you're a student athlete and that is what's really important at the end of the day.

All that said LJ is going to have to understand if I boo him if he returns as an equally compensated, equally positioned member of the OSU staff.
 

terrynever

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The Big Ten needs aggressive recruiting like Meyer and Franklin can provide, not just by flipping verbals, but by recruiting nationally and getting after the top kids. Sometimes, academic standards prevent recruiting the exact same pool that certain SEC and Big 12 schools can target, but there's no question the Big Ten has to get in the trenches and do the dirty work needed to win at the highest level.
 
It's a slippery slope. Michigan has all the assets and facilities as Ohio State, maybe more, and yet with a mediocre coaching staff currently, and a brutal one preceding, the Wolverines are slipping out of the Top 25, which should be almost impossible for a school of that caliber.
 
M

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TMQ buries BO'B as his parting shot in this week's column:
 

Weasel Coach Watch No. 4: Bill O'Brien coached at Penn State just two years before sprinting out the door for more money. Since Penn State averted its eyes from children being exploited, the school cannot complain about being exploited by O'Brien. But as the invaluable Inside Higher Education notes, in July 2012, when football team members were offered the option of transferring to other colleges without NCAA restrictions, O'Brien begged them to stay, saying of a players meeting, "I talked to them about the bond they've formed with this football staff." Nearly all stayed, believing O'Brien would honor his side of the bond. Then the moment money was waved, O'Brien broke his promises and left.
 

Fred in Lynn

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LJ must have consulted Johnny Jesus before considering his move. I would have felt better if he had just come out and said that he had enough of so-and-so and hoped they suffered everytime his new school played his old one, something more honest and explainable. Fuck him. Sorry, that's how I feel at this time and absent yet-unknown information, e.g., Franklin actually told him he didn't want him, OSU doubled his salary, etc.
 

Fred in Lynn

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TMQ buries BO'B as his parting shot in this week's column:
 

Who is BO'B?

But seriously, I am not sure I agree with that author's theme. How did the players who stay suffer? They're universally viewed as being part of something unique and difficult, which will do nothing to harm their resumes. The number of people who look negatively on the two classes since the sanctions are about the same as the number of people who don't support the troops. Moreover, the author makes turning one's life upside down to go to school and play football somewhere completely different the equivalent of changing out of an oxford for a polo.

I was bummed he left, but it's not as though it wad ever a state secret that it would happen at some point. Also, it's not like he did something to alienate everyone, like take the head coaching job at Ohio State. (As you may be able to discern, I'm still in bitter mode. No Sox fan should need an explanation.)
 

terrynever

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I'm strangely energized by this change in coaches. No bitterness over LJ. His recruiting strengths will be more than covered by the new staff and especially the new head coach. Ohio State gets a push because they lost Mike Vrabel, who had been their best recruiter since coming aboard. Nits probably lose Thomas Holley to Florida or Ohio State. We get a new regime that is going to be super aggressive in recruiting, maybe to the point of running off some scholarship players who underachieve. (Franklin was known for recruiting more players than he had room for at Vandy.)
 
If you're going to compete with Ohio State, you have to go the extra mile. As long as it's legal, I'm okay with recruiting hard and all over the country, chasing down opposing verbals, etc.
 

SoxJox

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Fred in Lynn said:
The only leverage prospects have is in selecting where they choose to go to school and play football. I have a hard time criticizing them for flipping, which is a derogatory term for "changing their minds within the promulgated period for doing so." The Meyer style of recruiting verbally committed prospects is shady and slimy if you're a fan of another school and aggressive if you're a fan of the school doing the recruiting. Most importantly it's an opportunity to make the best judgement possible if you're a student athlete and that is what's really important at the end of the day.

All that said LJ is going to have to understand if I boo him if he returns as an equally compensated, equally positioned member of the OSU staff.
Once again...me...nodding head.
 

sachmoney

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terrynever said:
It's a slippery slope. Michigan has all the assets and facilities as Ohio State, maybe more, and yet with a mediocre coaching staff currently, and a brutal one preceding, the Wolverines are slipping out of the Top 25, which should be almost impossible for a school of that caliber.
We're recruiting fine. Our coaching/development is what has been subpar.
 

canderson

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sachmoney said:
We're recruiting fine. Our coaching/development is what has been subpar.
18th best class in the country right now, ahead of Michigan and 2nd of all B1G schools. That's with the reduction. O'Brien for hating recruiting was damn good at it.
 
Fred in Lynn said:
LJ must have consulted Johnny Jesus before considering his move. I would have felt better if he had just come out and said that he had enough of so-and-so and hoped they suffered everytime his new school played his old one, something more honest and explainable. Fuck him. Sorry, that's how I feel at this time and absent yet-unknown information, e.g., Franklin actually told him he didn't want him, OSU doubled his salary, etc.
 
Those are some harsh words for a 62 year old coach who was with Penn State for 18 years without being promoted past defensive line coach.
 

sachmoney

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18th best class in the country right now, ahead of Michigan and 2nd of all B1G schools. That's with the reduction. O'Brien for hating recruiting was damn good at it.
We have 16 guys. You have 22. We're 2nd in the Big Ten on 247 which aggregates the different recruiting sites. Most of the sites, factor number into it and that'd explain why there would be other classes ahead of us. We just don't have the schollies available that a school under sanctions does. :(
 

Fred in Lynn

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Those are some harsh words for a 62 year old coach who was with Penn State for 18 years without being promoted past defensive line coach.

He's 61. He's taking the same job at OSU. What's your point?
 

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I like this. Michigan, Penn State trying to get back to the level of Michigan State and Ohio State. It won't happen in one season. The Nits lost 63-14 to OSU last October. So the gap is big. But the Big Ten needs schools aggressively chasing Ohio State and Michigan State. Wisconsin and Nebraska, Minnesota are in the hunt. The conference needs to get deeper. Infighting is good.
 

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This ESPN article reflects the LJ I think we all admire, unless LJ's completely blowing smoke.  Moyer does point out that LJ turned down offers for DC at Illinois and Maryland, which to me really does bolster his statement that his decision really wasn't about a job.  But it also reinforces the notion that his time simply had come at Penn State, and his chances of ever being a HC had passed - perhaps long ago.
 
"Getting promoted isn't the issue to me," Johnson told ESPN.com on Monday night. "At the end of the day, it's giving Coach Franklin the chance to move forward. It's his program, his coaching staff and, yes, he offered me the opportunity to stay.
 
"But at the end of the day, I thought what would be best for me -- and be unselfish -- is the fact that let's move forward. That's my decision. It had nothing do with a job, or not giving me a promotion."
 
Just know this," Johnson said. "I wasn't forced out, I wasn't pushed out. It was my decision. It wasn't about a head coaching job.
 
"To be honest with you, I'm at peace. I'm sad, but I'm at peace because it's the end of a legacy and a great time at Penn State University -- and I'm very thankful. My time here will be dear to me the rest of my life, but it's time to move on."
 

Fred in Lynn

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Perhaps Franklin was offering the position largely to avoid backlash. Or maybe not, and as you wrote, LJ is full of it. I've homesteaded a nice little plot of land on Bitter Island, so I think I'll stay here awhile. (Actually, it sucks. The only fruit around are lemon trees, I have to take this giant horse pill without water several times per day, and the humidity - sweet Jesus, the humidity. Tell me there is something more, LJ, so I can get out of here.)
 

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Hope this helps, Fred:
Ohio State gave Larry Johnson more money and a way out of an awkward situation. Johnson had promised a lot of recruits that O'Brien would be around for the length of their careers. Then Penn State asked him to handle the mess while they looked for a new coach, someone younger than LJ. That's an insult right there, the age thing. Johnson is a proud man. But he's black, like Franklin, so he didn't want to go out bitter and mess up things for the next coach. He needed to do something to salvage his own sense of right and wrong. Ohio State knew exactly what was going on and saw a quick fix for Vrabel leaving. This is the type of aggressive behavior we should be seeing more of in future Big Ten seasons.
The war is on. Penn State is back on its feet but still needs to get back to 85 scholarships before it can compete with Michigan State and Ohio State.
 

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I'm going to take a wild guess and say race had zero to do with it. Probably everyday somewhere, in-house people who get passed over for promotions take off for other jobs. Career-long assistant coaches in their 60s don't get hired for head coach unless their name is Spaziani. And Johnson has never been above position coach. Not to mention that Franklin's recruiting area completely overlaps Johnson's. There's a litany of reasons for Johnson not to stay. 
 

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Infield Infidel said:
I'm going to take a wild guess and say race had zero to do with it. Probably everyday somewhere, in-house people who get passed over for promotions take off for other jobs. Career-long assistant coaches in their 60s don't get hired for head coach unless their name is Spaziani. And Johnson has never been above position coach. Not to mention that Franklin's recruiting area completely overlaps Johnson's. There's a litany of reasons for Johnson not to stay.
Agree with much of what you say. Except I don't think race is ever a zero part of an equation. I am glad Penn State finally has a black coach. Maybe the school will up its percentage of black students, too.
 

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Infield Infidel said:
I'm going to take a wild guess and say race had zero to do with it. Probably everyday somewhere, in-house people who get passed over for promotions take off for other jobs. Career-long assistant coaches in their 60s don't get hired for head coach unless their name is Spaziani. And Johnson has never been above position coach. Not to mention that Franklin's recruiting area completely overlaps Johnson's. There's a litany of reasons for Johnson not to stay. 
I think people are way overthinking this. LJ got passed over twice for head coach (rightfully so). Franklin has likely extremely little desire to keep him on staff, if he even offered anything. LJ was essentially relieved of his duties and needed/wanted a new job.
 
The reaction to this by some fans I know is quite appalling honestly.
 

Fred in Lynn

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Thanks for trying, terry, but it doesn't help. The only thing that will pull me back is an honest explanation from someone directly involved. If it was a money thing, then he should say so. If it's a race thing (I'm with the Infidel on this one), then he should say so. If it's just moving on, which is what he claimed was the sole reason for the change, then he should expect some heat from PSU fans because he's selected OSU. If he was from Ohio, if his kids didn't attend PSU, if he had some, any previous ties to Meyer or OSU, then perhaps that would explain it. So in the context of being a fan, i.e., notorious for being irrationally passionate, I decided after some consideration that I had a problem with it and let develop a good ol' fashioned grudge.
 

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canderson said:
I think people are way overthinking this. LJ got passed over twice for head coach (rightfully so). Franklin has likely extremely little desire to keep him on staff, if he even offered anything. LJ was essentially relieved of his duties and needed/wanted a new job.
 
The reaction to this by some fans I know is quite appalling honestly.
True. No new coach ever leaves a guy on his staff from the old regime who applied for his job.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
Thanks for trying, terry, but it doesn't help. The only thing that will pull me back is an honest explanation from someone directly involved. If it was a money thing, then he should say so. If it's a race thing (I'm with the Infidel on this one), then he should say so. If it's just moving on, which is what he claimed was the sole reason for the change, then he should expect some heat from PSU fans because he's selected OSU. If he was from Ohio, if his kids didn't attend PSU, if he had some, any previous ties to Meyer or OSU, then perhaps that would explain it. So in the context of being a fan, i.e., notorious for being irrationally passionate, I decided after some consideration that I had a problem with it and let develop a good ol' fashioned grudge.
I don't know many assistant coaches who get booed for leaving one school to be an assistant at another. He's an assistant coach! Holley is now gone. Be pissed about that.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
Thanks for trying, terry, but it doesn't help. The only thing that will pull me back is an honest explanation from someone directly involved. If it was a money thing, then he should say so. If it's a race thing (I'm with the Infidel on this one), then he should say so. If it's just moving on, which is what he claimed was the sole reason for the change, then he should expect some heat from PSU fans because he's selected OSU. If he was from Ohio, if his kids didn't attend PSU, if he had some, any previous ties to Meyer or OSU, then perhaps that would explain it. So in the context of being a fan, i.e., notorious for being irrationally passionate, I decided after some consideration that I had a problem with it and let develop a good ol' fashioned grudge.
He didn't have a job at Penn State he wanted. Instead of retiring, he found a job at a better program.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
He didn't accept the same position at OSU that he held at PSU? That's news to me.
I never said he didn't? He wasn't going to be the DL coach for Franklin, he wanted/got Spencer who he's been with for years. To stay at Penn State he probably would have to had move into an admin role or something.
 

Fred in Lynn

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Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
From where are you getting your information? Bob Flounders has consistently reported over the last several days that LJ wasn't just offered A position on Franklin's staff, but the same position he held last year.

http://onwardstate.com/2014/01/13/report-larry-johnson-declines-offer-to-stay-at-penn-state/

Spencer wasn't unofficially slated for the position until LJ declared he was moving on according to Flounders. If you're reading something different, just post what someone else is reporting.