I don't disagree with the concept of teams getting leapfrogged despite blowing out terrible teams, but I don't get what is so great about beating Georgia Tech, Kansas State, or Wisconsin.
2014 CFP Bowl Thread (AKA The New Year's Bowls)
- Thread starter Infield Infidel
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The fix was in, There i no doubt in my mind that if it were Texas or Oklahoma sitting there at 11-1 that it would have been the same outcome.
The real question is as the process was fixed, why last week's move of TCU from 6-3. Was it strictly to drive ratings, and controvery? Maybe they wanted cover in case the OSU 3rd string couldn't play at all.
I have no doubt in my mind that i Baylor beat KSU in the Big 12 Championship game yesterday to get to 12-1, Baylor still would have finished #5. The championship game excuse is just an excuse.
TCU and Baylor may be in a somewhat big boy conference, but they are not big boy teams, and if there is an OSU out there OSU will always win out.
I actually think OSU is a good team, they might be a really good team. It is just so hard to measure them because they lost to a team that is not top 50 in the country, and they rode through a complete piece of steaming crap of a conference this year, including a very overrated Wiscy in the title game
The real question is as the process was fixed, why last week's move of TCU from 6-3. Was it strictly to drive ratings, and controvery? Maybe they wanted cover in case the OSU 3rd string couldn't play at all.
I have no doubt in my mind that i Baylor beat KSU in the Big 12 Championship game yesterday to get to 12-1, Baylor still would have finished #5. The championship game excuse is just an excuse.
TCU and Baylor may be in a somewhat big boy conference, but they are not big boy teams, and if there is an OSU out there OSU will always win out.
I actually think OSU is a good team, they might be a really good team. It is just so hard to measure them because they lost to a team that is not top 50 in the country, and they rode through a complete piece of steaming crap of a conference this year, including a very overrated Wiscy in the title game
My takeaway , and I thnk most of you have said this is one way or another:
1. Conference Championship games are a requirement (Big XII needs to really be a 12 team league);
2. This whole thing is designed for the marquee programs in the country. If you are a traditonal midddle of the roader, your only chance to get into this is to run the table, and win your conference championship game...and even then, there's no guarantee (Are you listening BC, Minnesota, Oregon State, Colorado, Vandy, Kentucky etc.) In the immortal words of Donnie Brasco..."forgetaboutit";
3. This confirms that there are 4 tiers to D1 college football (The "top 15 destination jobs", the balance of the Power 5, the tier 2 FBS (AAC, MWC) and the tier 3 (MAC,C-USA, Sun Belt);
4. Look for the "Top 15" to start scheduling tougher OOC games- good things for lower level Power 5 and tier 2 programs to have attractive schedules and vie for New Years Day bowls, sans the playoff bowls ;
5. Unless they expand the playing field, this will make D1 programs around the country take a look at what they want from their football program. Do you want to push it for a playoff type program or do you get to /stay in a Power 5 and play for second tier bowl games and good regular season matchups. It looks like the system makes that choice mutually exclusive.
The playoff needs to go to 8 teams, with all Power 5 champs in, and 3 wildcards.
The last question that this raises is it makes Notre Dame's chances that much more difficult. They need to go at least 11-1 to make it IMHO make this party unless they join a conference all in.
1. Conference Championship games are a requirement (Big XII needs to really be a 12 team league);
2. This whole thing is designed for the marquee programs in the country. If you are a traditonal midddle of the roader, your only chance to get into this is to run the table, and win your conference championship game...and even then, there's no guarantee (Are you listening BC, Minnesota, Oregon State, Colorado, Vandy, Kentucky etc.) In the immortal words of Donnie Brasco..."forgetaboutit";
3. This confirms that there are 4 tiers to D1 college football (The "top 15 destination jobs", the balance of the Power 5, the tier 2 FBS (AAC, MWC) and the tier 3 (MAC,C-USA, Sun Belt);
4. Look for the "Top 15" to start scheduling tougher OOC games- good things for lower level Power 5 and tier 2 programs to have attractive schedules and vie for New Years Day bowls, sans the playoff bowls ;
5. Unless they expand the playing field, this will make D1 programs around the country take a look at what they want from their football program. Do you want to push it for a playoff type program or do you get to /stay in a Power 5 and play for second tier bowl games and good regular season matchups. It looks like the system makes that choice mutually exclusive.
The playoff needs to go to 8 teams, with all Power 5 champs in, and 3 wildcards.
The last question that this raises is it makes Notre Dame's chances that much more difficult. They need to go at least 11-1 to make it IMHO make this party unless they join a conference all in.
Sugar Bowl - 1 Alabama vs 4 Ohio State
Rose Bowl - 2 Oregon vs 3 Florida State
Orange Bowl - 12 Georgia Tech vs 7 Mississippi St
Peach Bowl - 9 Ole Miss vs 6 TCU
Cotton Bowl - 5 Baylor vs 8 Michigan St
Fiesta Bowl - 20 Boise St vs 10 Arizona
Rose Bowl - 2 Oregon vs 3 Florida State
Orange Bowl - 12 Georgia Tech vs 7 Mississippi St
Peach Bowl - 9 Ole Miss vs 6 TCU
Cotton Bowl - 5 Baylor vs 8 Michigan St
Fiesta Bowl - 20 Boise St vs 10 Arizona
Bad matchup for GA Tech I think.
Gonna be a fun power v. finesse game in Dallas.
Boise gets screwed on the HFA for 'zona.
Just like bball, getting the feeling that committees try to minimize the mid-majors this way.
Gonna be a fun power v. finesse game in Dallas.
Boise gets screwed on the HFA for 'zona.
Just like bball, getting the feeling that committees try to minimize the mid-majors this way.
Wait, Mississippi State passed Michigan State? I would have loved to hear Tim Long explain that one.Infield Infidel said:
5 of the 6 are going to be blowouts. (and not 6, because Baylor won't stop the Sparty ground game, which will limit possessions).soxfan121 said:
Selfishly, I wish the bowl games were on Jan 1 and 2 instead of Dec 31 and Jan 1. Jan 2 is a Friday between New Year's and the weekend. I'm working and traveling on Dec 31, and took Jan 2 off. I'm sure plenty of other people will take that day off. They'd get better ratings too.
The process is a complete joke. Yes, TCU lost to Baylor but a situation where a team that didn't win it's conference title and still competed for the national title has happened multiple times. So, let's take "Well, they lost to Baylor" out of the question because it hasn't mattered in the past. TCU's loss was to a top 5 team on the road by one score while Ohio State lost at home to a team ranked #50 in the Sagarin Ratings. The team ranked #3 went out and beat a team 55-3 and dropped 3 spots????
The only reason Ohio State is going to the playoff is because their name is Ohio State. They can make more money, get more fans in the seats, and get better ratings. I'm not naive enough to think that on the field matters more than this because it doesn't. For Jeff Long to say they never considered for a second either georgraphy or matchups in their rankings is a complete lie. Just come out and say that TCU isn't good for business and end the charade. Stop pretending to say that Ohio State deserved it more because they are the more deserving team.
The only reason Ohio State is going to the playoff is because their name is Ohio State. They can make more money, get more fans in the seats, and get better ratings. I'm not naive enough to think that on the field matters more than this because it doesn't. For Jeff Long to say they never considered for a second either georgraphy or matchups in their rankings is a complete lie. Just come out and say that TCU isn't good for business and end the charade. Stop pretending to say that Ohio State deserved it more because they are the more deserving team.
You have to look at who they beat as well as who they lost to. OSU beat 2 ranked teams to TCU's one.RedOctober3829 said:
FWIW, RPI has OSU ranked ahead of TCU in large part because of OSU's stronger schedule. http://realtimerpi.com/football/ncaaf_Men.html
I'm not saying OSU's clearly better, but it's essentially a push.
OSU went 59-0 against a top-20 opponent. Yeah, it sucks and you can't realistically be expected to do much more than TCU did, but OSU put up a severe beatdown and if you think (as has been mentioned a few times here) that 3-6 were essentially tied going in then I could see giving them the nod. It's essentially grasping at straws to distinguish them.
Pretty sure 80%+ of the people who keep mentioning Baylor beat TCU never even saw a minute of the first three quarters.
TCU's in-conference SOS was significantly better than OSU, top-20 is so arbitrary.
Minnesota and Baylor v. Buffalo and VT? No debate. (best OOC win and only loss, rspvtly) And even if you add in KState and Wiscy (best perfomance) TCU should be ranked higher, if you ignore the brand.
TCU's in-conference SOS was significantly better than OSU, top-20 is so arbitrary.
Minnesota and Baylor v. Buffalo and VT? No debate. (best OOC win and only loss, rspvtly) And even if you add in KState and Wiscy (best perfomance) TCU should be ranked higher, if you ignore the brand.
Make it ranked, or just look at overall SOS (included on the link above)--either way, OSU's was tougher.Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Does RPI have a brand factor included now? I'm not saying it's perfect, but the two teams are very close. Certainly close enough that reasonable minds can disagree, and saying the only way OSU could possibly be ranked higher is because of the name smacks of sour grapes.
As good as OSU may be, one thing I noticed is that every ranked team in the Big Ten lost a non-conference game. TCU beat Minnesota, Ohio State lost to VaTech, Wisconsin lost to LSU, and Michigan St lost to Oregon. I get rewarding teams for playing good schedules, but they didn't show much in non-conference. Meanwhile, the conference only had one non-conference win over a ranked Power 5 team, Indiana beating Missouri.
RPI is a bit outdated, it just looks at opponents and opponents' opponents. there's no way Baylor had a worse schedule than Western Kentucky or Toledo, nor did New Mexico have a tougher sched than TCU. It works a little better for basketball because there are over triple the games, but even then it's not that good anymore
Sagarin had the schedules TCU 42, Ohio State 52, and Baylor 56.
SumnerH said:
RPI is a bit outdated, it just looks at opponents and opponents' opponents. there's no way Baylor had a worse schedule than Western Kentucky or Toledo, nor did New Mexico have a tougher sched than TCU. It works a little better for basketball because there are over triple the games, but even then it's not that good anymore
Sagarin had the schedules TCU 42, Ohio State 52, and Baylor 56.
Preach it, brother. Preach it. At least the BCS used some sort of algorithm, even if it was based largely on the opinions of people. This system uses figure skating judges. OSU lost to a horrible VT team and with the aid of some world-class bad officiating "beat" a one-dimensional PSU team.Sox and Rocks said:
Until an 8-team playoff is adopted that gives automatic bids to the major conferences and 2-3 at-large bids to round it out, it will be a joke. Make the conference competition mean something. This seems to work for every other team sport. I read Ivan Maisel's piece on this ( http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=11994124&src=desktop) and wanted to puke from the rationalizing of an awful system. I guess it's fair when you gloss over how they feel in Ft. Worth or Waco today. Joke.
The argument I keep hearing against an 8 team playoff is that it devalues the regular season. However, if the 8 teams were the 5 Power 5 conference champions, the best team from outside the Power 5 and 2 at-large teams surely this would actually place more emphasis on the regular season since non-conference champions have a much smaller chance of making the playoffs.
TBH, I don't want it to become like the NCAA tournament; where there are too many teams and most of the teams have 0% chance of actually winning it. You'd also kill the bowl system if you go any more than 4 teams.
Ohio State doesn't have much of a chance of winning both games; but it's not like TCU or Baylor would fare any better.
Ohio State doesn't have much of a chance of winning both games; but it's not like TCU or Baylor would fare any better.
A response to someone making the argument summarized in the first sentence could be "when they start an 128-game season, the argument will have merit."swiftaw said:
I'll be the one smiling at the execution. If it ended tomorrow, it would be too late. Fuck the bowls.axx said:
Yeah. It's amazing how they manage to get people to care about them by calling them "bowls" instead of simply "meaningless exhibition games".Fred in Lynn said:
Here's a fun read I saw linked on another board: http://www.erikpitzer.com/college-football-pyramid/index.html
Geographic reorganization, promotion/relegation, and a 16 team playoff.
Geographic reorganization, promotion/relegation, and a 16 team playoff.
Put me on the list of those advocating for an 8-team playoff. It allows the stubborn conferences to keep their systems in place, more than 8 teams is too large and would dilute the caliber of playoff teams, and giving a bye to the top 2 (in a 6-team playoff) is far too generous considering there is not sufficient opponents in common during the regular season. I assume this will happen in the next 2 years. 5 conference champions and 3 at large - I don't see the need to give a midmajor champion a seat at the table automatically.
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon's All-American cornerback, blew out his knee in practice and is out for the season. He's easily the Ducks' best defensive player, so this is a big blow, especially if they end up facing Amari Cooper in the championship game.
That's a big loss, and it's not like FSU doesn't have a good passing game as well. I think the Rose Bowl will be even more of a shoot-out than before.