2013 Penn State Football - Surviving the "Trouble Years"

SoxJox

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Dave Stapleton said:
Shane Larkin was granted the waiver when he transferred from DePaul to Miami due to a health issue. Obviously the health issue was never disclosed.
OK, a medically-based exception which, BTW, is not explicitly called out in the bylaws (which I will grant points to a serious subjective "gap" in interpretation of the rules as written).
 
That said, Hackenberg would not be basing his claim on a medical condition.
 
Edit: I would add that Larkin had only practiced for 10 days with the Depaul squad and not played in any games.  And there's a "magical" line of the 12th day of a semester that kicks in some issues in the qualifying conditions, and maybe this played  apart.  I don't know.  In any case...still medically-based.
 

RedOctober3829

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SoxJox said:
And now that I've gone back and looked at the Bylaws again, hardship waivers are near-exclusively used (I couldn't find an exception) to the granting of an additional year of eligibility due to medical hardship, and never, at least not explicitly, for the purpose of waiving the one-year residency requirement at the receiving school.
There's a number of past precedent.  These are all from men's basketball
--Momo Jones got a hardship waiver and didn't have to sit out a year after transferring from Arizona to Iona because of an illness in his family.  --Kerwin Okoro is playing this season at Rutgers after transferring from Iowa State after 2 deaths in his family. 
--Drew Wilson is playing this year at Oral Roberts after transferring from Missouri State due to the death of his sister. 
--Nurideen Lindsay transferred to Rider from St. John's and was granted a hardship waiver to play immediately this season because he wanted to be closer to his Philadelphia-based family. 
--Trey Zigler of Central Michigan was granted a hardship waiver to play immediately at Pitt because his father was fired from his assistant coaching position at Central Michigan.
 
Any player from a team who was declared ineligible for postseason play or whose program is being cut is also free to transfer without sitting a year.  When Vermont cut baseball any players were eligible right away.  Temple cut baseball recently and any players that transfer(I know 2 went to NC State and one went to Virginia) are allowed to play this year.  Penn State football players were allowed to play right away after the sanctions came down.
 
The NCAA relaxed it's standards to be granted a hardship waiver in November of 2012.  If you have a good compliance director, you can get it done.
 

DJnVa

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Hoops players get this a lot as well, it's not that hard. However a lot of the times, it's kids heading to a school much closer to home.
 

SoxJox

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RedOctober3829 said:
There's a number of past precedent.  These are all from men's basketball
--Momo Jones got a hardship waiver and didn't have to sit out a year after transferring from Arizona to Iona because of an illness in his family.  --Kerwin Okoro is playing this season at Rutgers after transferring from Iowa State after 2 deaths in his family. 
--Drew Wilson is playing this year at Oral Roberts after transferring from Missouri State due to the death of his sister. 
--Nurideen Lindsay transferred to Rider from St. John's and was granted a hardship waiver to play immediately this season because he wanted to be closer to his Philadelphia-based family. 
--Trey Zigler of Central Michigan was granted a hardship waiver to play immediately at Pitt because his father was fired from his assistant coaching position at Central Michigan.
 
Any player from a team who was declared ineligible for postseason play or whose program is being cut is also free to transfer without sitting a year.  When Vermont cut baseball any players were eligible right away.  Temple cut baseball recently and any players that transfer(I know 2 went to NC State and one went to Virginia) are allowed to play this year.  Penn State football players were allowed to play right away after the sanctions came down.
 
The NCAA relaxed it's standards to be granted a hardship waiver in November of 2012.  If you have a good compliance director, you can get it done.
Not to belabor the pooint but, like I said, find an example that APPLIES to Hackenberg's postulated case.  You are serving with your examples to bolster my point regarding hardships, none of the similarities for which apply to Hackenberg.  How would you define his hardship in his case?  "Boo hoo, My coach left me. I'm [medically] distraught and beside myself."
 
My daughter was an NCAA Div I scholarship athlete and the letter of intent includes explicit language that you are committing to the school, and not the coach.  What other basis does Hackenberg have?
 

Fred in Lynn

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If it does end up being Golden, it would be outstanding if Scrap were DC again. Love the new pro-style offense, but miss the D. Plus, he's every bit the recruiter that LJ is. He just doesn't kiss booster butt like LJ.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
If it does end up being Golden, it would be outstanding if Scrap were DC again. Love the new pro-style offense, but miss the D. Plus, he's every bit the recruiter that LJ is. He just doesn't kiss booster butt like LJ.
Scrap never got married, which hurt his chances of becoming a head coach anywhere. Believe me, stupid as that sounds, it matters, especially in an insular community like State College. I think there's a good chance he resurfaces as DC if Golden or Munchak gets the job. A lot of people were unhappy with the defense over the past year. The 2012 defense was simply a carryover from Bradley's unit. 2013 was a step down and it was probably going to get worse if Butler remained as DC.
 
Larry Johnson is another candidate for DC under the next coach. He's due for a pay raise no matter what. I never saw him as a politician, though. It was funny when his son bad-mouthed Paterno's offense 10 years ago.
 

DJnVa

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SoxJox said:
Not to belabor the pooint but, like I said, find an example that APPLIES to Hackenberg's postulated case.  You are serving with your examples to bolster my point regarding hardships, none of the similarities for which apply to Hackenberg.  How would you define his hardship in his case?  "Boo hoo, My coach left me. I'm [medically] distraught and beside myself."
 
My daughter was an NCAA Div I scholarship athlete and the letter of intent includes explicit language that you are committing to the school, and not the coach.  What other basis does Hackenberg have?
 
Who knows in his exact case, but it's weird that a lot of times coaches leave and suddenly someones mom, aunt that raised him, grandmother or someone is sick and they need to play near home. If he wants to leave he won't say it's about the coach. Everyone knows that you don't get a hardship because of that. But it's the NCAA, it's not always logical.
 

Fred in Lynn

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Scrap never got married, which hurt his chances of becoming a head coach anywhere. Believe me, stupid as that sounds, it matters, especially in an insular community like State College. I think there's a good chance he resurfaces as DC if Golden or Munchak gets the job. A lot of people were unhappy with the defense over the past year. The 2012 defense was simply a carryover from Bradley's unit. 2013 was a step down and it was probably going to get worse if Butler remained as DC.
 
Larry Johnson is another candidate for DC under the next coach. He's due for a pay raise no matter what. I never saw him as a politician, though. It was funny when his son bad-mouthed Paterno's offense 10 years ago.

My dickhead brother-in-law, a true asshole among anuses, knows some insiders who have described this to him and subsequently, me. The description wasn't that LJ was an ass kisser, but that he seemed able to grease palms/navigate the intricacies of alumni/booster relationships better than Bradley. Dipshit extraordinaire that he is to his sisters and mother, he's not the kind of guy to lie about that stuff, so I took what he told me at face value. I also never had any use for the information until now, and I'm getting irritated even thinking about him. Thanks for your support.

Bradley was an interesting case to me after the Paterno firing. He's not mentioned in the A.G. fact-finding report or any other part if that stuff, but he seemed to be quickly pushed to the side when O'Brien was hired even though Root and then Butler, with all due respect, haven't shown that they can manage a defense like Bradley. I presumed he wasn't part of the new staff either because O'Brien had his own guys or because internal sinister forces pushed him out. Everyone loves the post-Hall/Jay offense (well, obviously), but the defense took a clear step back. I know nothing about the backstory for Bradley's departure, bit I miss his on-field product.
 

Fred in Lynn

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And as we all probably know, Munchak was fired today.

Edit: But I think the safe money is on Golden. He's an alum, doesn't have clear NFL intentions, and is no wallflower when it comes to coaching or recruiting. Not sure why there's much of a conversation to be had, really. In a couple of days the story will be about how obvious his selection was.
 

terrynever

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Fred in Lynn said:
And as we all probably know, Munchak was fired today. Edit: But I think the safe money is on Golden. He's an alum, doesn't have clear NFL intentions, and is no wallflower when it comes to coaching or recruiting. Not sure why there's much of a conversation to be had, really. In a couple of days the story will be about how obvious his selection was.
Based on what I've read about Golden over the past two days, he makes more sense as a hire than Munchak. The Vandy coach is probably a better choice, too, but I don't think the search committee can hire an outsider without stirring up more trouble within the community. My worry now is that the Lettermen are going to pressure the search committee to hire Munchak.
 
Golden by Monday, I hope.
 

terrynever

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canderson said:
Miami'sAD texted a reporter saying he expects Golden to stay in Miami.
Saw that. He was just expressing his "belief" that Golden wasn't going anywhere. They've been in touch frequently over the last few days. Golden himself probably doesn't know what he wants to do yet.
Penn State will interview Franklin today. I imagine Munchak gets an interview by tomorrow. Larry Johnson also will get interviewed. 
Should have a decision by mid-week. It's a good group of final candidates. Based on what I've read about Golden, he seems to be the best choice, younger by a decade than Munchak. Franklin might be smarter than any of them but he's an outsider. The overriding feeling is the next coach will have strong ties to PSU.
Johnson is probably too old and lacks head coaching experience. I could see him being promoted to Assistant Head Coach alongside Golden when this is all over. He gets  raise and a nice title but his job remains the same: Coach the D-Line and lead the recruiting effort.
 

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sachmoney said:
Munchak is interviewing today, via the Twitters.
They do a lot of this stuff by Skype, of course. Munchak went thru the process two years ago so I guess he is prepared. His stint as head coach of the Titans may reflect negatively on his candidacy. It worries me because he is the favored choice of the older alumni, which is why the search committee needs to make an informed choice free of pressure from external interests.
 

terrynever

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canderson said:
Miami'sAD texted a reporter saying he expects Golden to stay in Miami.
Golden just dropped out, issuing a statement reaffirming his commitment to Miami.

And so the field dwindles to three. Unless there is a dark horse out there.
 

canderson

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terrynever said:
Golden just dropped out, issuing a statement reaffirming his commitment to Miami.
And so the field dwindles to three. Unless there is a dark horse out there.
Which likely means he wasn't getting the gig.
 

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canderson said:
Which likely means he wasn't getting the gig.
Yeah, I think he may have bowed out in deference to Munchak. Or maybe he just realized he owes something to the recruits and players at Miami. Like his word.
 

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terrynever said:
Yeah, I think he may have bowed out in deference to Munchak. Or maybe he just realized he owes something to the recruits and players at Miami. Like his word.
If Munchak gets the job, I'll laugh my ass off and revel in the fan base reaction. It'll be comedy gold (like him coaching and recruiting in college for the first time).
 

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canderson said:
If Munchak gets the job, I'll laugh my ass off and revel in the fan base reaction. It'll be comedy gold (like him coaching and recruiting in college for the first time).
Yes, this would be like the Paterno apologists getting their choice into the program. I originally liked the idea of Munchak but after adding everything up, he would be third on my list now, behind LJ and Franklin, in whatever order you want.
 

SoxJox

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Munchak will be a disaster of epic proportions.  He's never recruited, and the first thing on his agenda will be convincing 2014 verbal commitments to stay the course?  Not to mention convincing current-roster players that they really don't want to sit out a year.  Good luck with that.
 
My impression of Munchak is a plodding, no frills, nor imagination coach.  I doubt that he could assemble a first tier collegiate coaching staff, because he has no idea what to look for.  Plus, he has no collegiate coaching experience, and has only worked with one pro organization.  I see a myopic, tunnel visioned coach.  If he's selected, I hope he proves me wrong, but I'm not going to Vegas on it.
 
I pray instead that they pull someone like Doug Nussmeier (he's interviewing with Washington) or BYU's Bronco Mendenhal out of the hat - both young and offensively minded.  Hell, even LSU's Cam Cameron, although he's probably itching to get back to the pros.
 

terrynever

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SoxJox said:
Munchak will be a disaster of epic proportions.  He's never recruited, and the first thing on his agenda will be convincing 2014 verbal commitments to stay the course?  Not to mention convincing current-roster players that they really don't want to sit out a year.  Good luck with that.
 
My impression of Munchak is a plodding, no frills, nor imagination coach.  I doubt that he could assemble a first tier collegiate coaching staff, because he has no idea what to look for.  Plus, he has no collegiate coaching experience, and has only worked with one pro organization.  I see a myopic, tunnel visioned coach.  If he's selected, I hope he proves me wrong, but I'm not going to Vegas on it.
 
I pray instead that they pull someone like Doug Nussmeier (he's interviewing with Washington) or BYU's Bronco Mendenhal out of the hat - both young and offensively minded.  Hell, even LSU's Cam Cameron, although he's probably itching to get back to the pros.
If Munchak gets the job, he becomes a figurehead in some respects, delegating key jobs to his staff. LJ is the face of recruiting for this program and has been for the past decade. He would continue in that role. Munchak would have to find a smart OC to keep the offense heading in the right direction.
As for strengths, Munchak would emphasize the running game and defense, just like his old college coach.
 

SoxJox

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Sorry T-Never.  The last thing Penn State needs at this point is a figurehead.  They need to hire an ACTIVE coach who will be engaged at all levels of the organization: providing direct - and not wholly delegated - authority to his coordinators and assistants (although some level is needed, of course); actively engaging and traveling in the recruiting efforts; steadying the ship in the face of uncertainty; and serving as the lightening rod for the program - someone able to withstand the barrage that surely is soon to begin.
 
I'm not saying that Munchak isn't a good coach, blah, blah.  I'm just saying that he is not the right person for the circumstances that will confront and consume the next coach.  
 
Oh...and whomever it is, they will hopefully have their passport in current order.  :astonished: Dublin will come soon enough against a UCF team that returns 17 of 22 starters, and which just thrashed Baylor.
 

terrynever

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SoxJox said:
Sorry T-Never.  The last thing Penn State needs at this point is a figurehead.  They need to hire an ACTIVE coach who will be engaged at all levels of the organization: providing direct - and not wholly delegated - authority to his coordinators and assistants (although some level is needed, of course); actively engaging and traveling in the recruiting efforts; steadying the ship in the face of uncertainty; and serving as the lightening rod for the program - someone able to withstand the barrage that surely is soon to begin.
 
I'm not saying that Munchak isn't a good coach, blah, blah.  I'm just saying that he is not the right person for the circumstances that will confront and consume the next coach.  
 
Oh...and whomever it is, they will hopefully have their passport in current order.  :astonished: Dublin will come soon enough against a UCF team that returns 17 of 22 starters, and which just thrashed Baylor.
Hey, we don't know what kind of a college coach Munchak will be. I'm just speculating. Munchak says he has a college recruiting blueprint ready. He is a quality offensive line coach. He has been a head NFL coach for three years. Maybe he brings along half of his Tennessee staff, including former Nit LB Chet Parlavecchio. I do agree we lose the recruiting connections to the South that Golden or Franklin owned. That was enticing.

It's not over yet. The process continues until the search committee is finished interviewing people. It's funny. Letterman gridders and Paterno loyalists like Munchak. Current players prefer Larry Johnson or Franklin. The players never get what they want.
 

terrynever

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SoxJox said:
That's my point.  I think Penn State needs to bring in someone that has at least SOME experience in the college ranks.
Well, he did play college football for four years. That's something. He has coached in the pros for around 15 years. Coaching is coaching.
 
What's interesting, to me, is the traditional route for coaches is college to pro, unless you start out as an unpaid go-fer the way Belichick did with the Colts a long time ago. Munchak would be going from the pros to college. If he is the hire, Penn State has to come up with a marketing strategy that emphasizes his loyalty to his staff over the fact that he got shit-canned after two straight losing seasons. He got fired because he wouldn't fire half of his assistants, several of them close friends. They can emphasize his stability -- 30 years in the same NFL organization. And, of course, they can note that he is one of the greatest Penn State players ever, and a pro HOF'er. There's a lot to sell here. Assuming he is the choice. Plenty can happen yet.
 

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terrynever said:
Or maybe he just realized he owes something to the recruits and players at Miami. Like his word.
 
If this mattered no college coach would ever go anywhere.
 

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DrewDawg said:
If this mattered no college coach would ever go anywhere.
This goes back to our collective cynicism again. No college coach sticks with one job his entire career ... oh, wait. There was one. But it doesn't matter. Al Golden will probably articulate his position this week, expressing his loyalty to UM. It will eventually come out that UM bumped his salary and added a few other perks to make up for the booster scandal they never told him about when he accepted the job three years ago.

Penn State has yet to offer this job to anyone. There is a rush to judgment with this search that could lead to a bad choice.
 

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sachmoney said:
WOW is right. This is the background music of Penn State football right now. Very irritating.

Munchak told a Tennessee reporter he didn't interview with Penn State today. Fwiw.
 

Fred in Lynn

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Sorry T-Never.  The last thing Penn State needs at this point is a figurehead.  They need to hire an ACTIVE coach who will be engaged at all levels of the organization: providing direct - and not wholly delegated - authority to his coordinators and assistants (although some level is needed, of course); actively engaging and traveling in the recruiting efforts; steadying the ship in the face of uncertainty; and serving as the lightening rod for the program - someone able to withstand the barrage that surely is soon to begin.

And herein lies the beef that so many had with the last decade of the Paterno years, when PSU wasn't evolving and other programs sprinted ahead of them. I fully agree. The counterintuitive beauty of the sanctions was in a clean break from the Paterno era. Don't get me wrong, I love the legacy myself, but the on-field product had slipped long before 2011.

I hope the ties any prospective candidate has to the school is well down the list of criteria.
 

terrynever

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RingoOSU said:
I wonder if all Paterno supporters can't spell Houston.
I have a problem spelling Huston.
 
Munchak going to interview with the Lions. Detroit Lions, not Columbia.
 

Fred in Lynn

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This is why coaches aren't lining up to interview.
Not really buying it all. Over-bearing alumni, fans, or boosters are as common on big-money football campuses as high beams in white t-shirts on the first warm day of the spring. I suspect that O'Brien left almost exclusively because he got a choice NFL job. I also wouldn't be surprised if the uncertainty regarding the AD and president posts has something to do with it. Franco Harris has become a tragic caricature and that website is for the lowest common denominator of the fanbase.

But I'd be lying if I didn't somewhat notice the odd feeling about this search.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
Not really buying it all. Over-bearing alumni, fans, or boosters are as common on big-money football campuses as high beams in white t-shirts on the first warm day of the spring. I suspect that O'Brien left almost exclusively because he got a choice NFL job. I also wouldn't be surprised if the uncertainty regarding the AD and president posts has something to do with it. Franco Harris has become a tragic caricature and that website is for the lowest common denominator of the fanbase. But I'd be lying if I didn't somewhat notice the odd feeling about this search.
If it's Munchak, I would suggest this was hardly a search at all. But maybe that's because his credentials line up so perfectly with what the Lettermen and big boosters are looking for -- someone who won't leave them holding the bag again in two years. I can't say, as a regular fan, that I'm thrilled with the idea of Penn State becoming a stepping stone for young coaches who dream of the NFL. That is the precedent O'Brien established here.
 
When O'Brien was interviewing two years ago, Belichick told him that Ohio State and Penn State are two places that just keep reloading because they are located in fertile football territory and the facilities are top-notch. I would put Michigan there, too, among Big Ten schools although you have to stretch farther for recruits out there in the Midwest. O'Brien took the Penn State job, did all the right things, and then left. Michigan lost its stability with the RichRod hiring. Ohio State is back on track with Meyer, a home-bred coach with a recruiting arm that reaches all over the country.
 
The Big Ten needs these three schools to get better. Wisconsin and Nebraska belong there, too. But it starts with who you pick as the coach. Is Munchak the right guy for Penn State? I don't think he's wrong.
 
Weird news this morning is some Penn State insiders don't think Al Golden's out of it yet. Stranger things have happened.
 

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PSU has won one Big Ten title - that was 20 years ago. It's been a fairly irrelevant program since 2005 and before then had been irrelevant for years. It used to reload to win but for 15 years it's mostly reloaded to be just good enough to not be mediocre but not good enough to be great. Except the last 8 or whatever years of Paterno they were exactly mediocre save for Michael Robinson's heroics.
 
I don't buy the fandom belief that PSU is still a football powerhouse. Can it be again? Sure. But it hasn't in many years as other schools have raced it by.
 
Edit: This rant wasn't directed to anyone here; I unfortunately just had some idiot telling me Penn State's job is better than USC or Alabama and every coach in the country would be honored to coach there regardless of where they currently coach.
 

Fred in Lynn

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Weird news this morning is some Penn State insiders don't think Al Golden's out of it yet. Stranger things have happened.

That whole interview and immediate announcement by Golden was odd. He heard something that he didn't like during the interview, which I'm guessing was either in regard to compensation or that they were going to interview other candidates and not hire him on the spot. If the latter was the case, Golden had to and was wise to reiterate his commitment to Miami. This coaching search just began and I'm already bored with it.
 

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canderson said:
PSU has won one Big Ten title - that was 20 years ago. It's been a fairly irrelevant program since 2005 and before then had been irrelevant for years. It used to reload to win but for 15 years it's mostly reloaded to be just good enough to not be mediocre but not good enough to be great. Except the last 8 or whatever years of Paterno they were exactly mediocre save for Michael Robinson's heroics.
 
I don't buy the fandom belief that PSU is still a football powerhouse. Can it be again? Sure. But it hasn't in many years as other schools have raced it by.
 
Edit: This rant wasn't directed to anyone here; I unfortunately just had some idiot telling me Penn State's job is better than USC or Alabama and every coach in the country would be honored to coach there regardless of where they currently coach.
Yeah, well aware of the history, Canderson. I'm not sure irrelevant is the right word. Reload obviously isn't, either. PSU has settled into the middle of the Big Ten over the last decade. By changing its offensive scheme, O'Brien had them taking the first steps back towards the top of the conference. That change wasn't going to happen unless an outsider came in. With an insider likely to be chosen as next head coach,PSU may be heading back to running the ball and playing tough defense.
I kind of see the program as having the potential to be Top Three in the conference in its better seasons. Which translates to Top 25 nationally, pretty much what we saw during the previous decade. And the bad seasons can be bottom half worthy in the Big Ten.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
That whole interview and immediate announcement by Golden was odd. He heard something that he didn't like during the interview, which I'm guessing was either in regard to compensation or that they were going to interview other candidates and not hire him on the spot. If the latter was the case, Golden had to and was wise to reiterate his commitment to Miami. This coaching search just began and I'm already bored with it.
Interesting analysis. Probably spot on about Golden wanting an offer right away. He had to be feeling some heat down there and wanted to get it done, one way or the other, right away. Still, there's a chance they go back to him after the searchers get done searching. It's a process, as Joyner has been saying all along.
 

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Clears Cleaver said:
James Franklin come on down. Seems like it's his job to lose
What makes you say that? Don't mind it happening, just haven't seen it anywhere. ... oh, CBSsports.com. Bruce Feldman says Franklin is "clear frontrunner." okay. sounds like today's rumor ... and it was just denied by pennlive.com's david jones, who says nobody has received an offer yet.
 

Fred in Lynn

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James Franklin come on down. Seems like it's his job to lose

I'm not so sure. I really think this subject has more to do with the "temporary permanent" status of David Joyner and the interim status of Rodney Erickson. Whomever is coming in would want stability and it's not clear who will be the next president. The president will want to have a say in whom the next AD will be, and the new AD may not like the choice of the football coach. But it may be that this turnover is restricting the annual value or length of any contract they offer an incoming coach. Maybe Golden only found this out at the time if the interview, because he went from thrilled to be considered to restating his commitment to Miami in a hurry.

Caution: I'm speculating the tar out of this subject (O'Brien got a five-year contract albeit in different circumstances), but I think the executive uncertainty is behind this.
 

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Fred in Lynn said:
I'm not so sure. I really think this subject has more to do with the "temporary permanent" status of David Joyner and the interim status of Rodney Erickson. Whomever is coming in would want stability and it's not clear who will be the next president. The president will want to have a say in whom the next AD will be, and the new AD may not like the choice of the football coach. But it may be that this turnover is restricting the annual value or length of any contract they offer an incoming coach. Maybe Golden only found this out at the time if the interview, because he went from thrilled to be considered to restating his commitment to Miami in a hurry.

Caution: I'm speculating the tar out of this subject (O'Brien got a five-year contract albeit in different circumstances), but I think the executive uncertainty is behind this.
Well, it is certainly a huge issue with three of the college professors I am still friends with in town. Interim President is a major problem at the academic end. Interim AD, same thing in intercollegiate athletics, for the reasons you stated. They've been trying to emphasize proper chain of command ever since the scandal, so the football coach has to report to the AD. Obie had no use for Joyner, as described in John Bacon's book, "Fourth And Long ..."
 

SoxJox

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canderson said:
PSU has won one Big Ten title - that was 20 years ago. It's been a fairly irrelevant program since 2005 and before then had been irrelevant for years. It used to reload to win but for 15 years it's mostly reloaded to be just good enough to not be mediocre but not good enough to be great. Except the last 8 or whatever years of Paterno they were exactly mediocre save for Michael Robinson's heroics.
 
I don't buy the fandom belief that PSU is still a football powerhouse. Can it be again? Sure. But it hasn't in many years as other schools have raced it by.
 
Edit: This rant wasn't directed to anyone here; I unfortunately just had some idiot telling me Penn State's job is better than USC or Alabama and every coach in the country would be honored to coach there regardless of where they currently coach.
Sadly, I must say that agree...with...all...of...this.
 

SoxJox

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terrynever said:
Yeah, well aware of the history, Canderson. I'm not sure irrelevant is the right word. Reload obviously isn't, either. PSU has settled into the middle of the Big Ten over the last decade. By changing its offensive scheme, O'Brien had them taking the first steps back towards the top of the conference. That change wasn't going to happen unless an outsider came in. With an insider likely to be chosen as next head coach,PSU may be heading back to running the ball and playing tough defense.
I kind of see the program as having the potential to be Top Three in the conference in its better seasons. Which translates to Top 25 nationally, pretty much what we saw during the previous decade. And the bad seasons can be bottom half worthy in the Big Ten.
Re. bolded.  I think just the opposite.  The way Penn State starts investing in an endless successful do-loop is to do what's happening in the SEC: speed, speed, speed, and offense, offense, offense.  And, the speed helps the defense, too.  I have confidence in LJ's ability to hold down the defensive front for the time being.  
 
I do hope that Penn State can transition to a spread offense, up-tempo, here-we-come style of play.  That's what kids want to play in these days.  And Munchak ain't bringin' that.  If they drop back into the days of Linebacker U yore, pull out the shovels and bury the program in medocrity, perhaps even worse than is even being currently projected, for the forseeable future.  Beaver Stadium will be an echo chamber (well, perhaps a bit too dramatic there, but you get the drift).
 

SoxJox

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Fred in Lynn said:
I'm not so sure. I really think this subject has more to do with the "temporary permanent" status of David Joyner and the interim status of Rodney Erickson. Whomever is coming in would want stability and it's not clear who will be the next president. The president will want to have a say in whom the next AD will be, and the new AD may not like the choice of the football coach. But it may be that this turnover is restricting the annual value or length of any contract they offer an incoming coach. Maybe Golden only found this out at the time if the interview, because he went from thrilled to be considered to restating his commitment to Miami in a hurry.

Caution: I'm speculating the tar out of this subject (O'Brien got a five-year contract albeit in different circumstances), but I think the executive uncertainty is behind this.
F-i-L, I must say that over the course of this thread I find your perspective to be clear and well thought out.  On this post I would suggest that it might be possible for the current administrative regime to somehow stumble upon a candidate who would be satisfactory to ANYONE, whether that be the current and/or future Prez + AD.  Of all the names floated to date, that to me is Franklin.  The problem is, as T-Never consistently reminds us, is that there are powerful forces (e.g., Letterman) who have a not insignificant influence (I love convoluted negatives) on the whole affair.  I imagine this is true at other schools as well, but has there ever been a coaching hiring scenario quite like this one?  I can't recall it if it exists.
 

terrynever

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SoxJox said:
F-i-L, I must say that over the course of this thread I find your perspective to be clear and well thought out.  On this post I would suggest that it might be possible for the current administrative regime to somehow stumble upon a candidate who would be satisfactory to ANYONE, whether that be the current and/or future Prez + AD.  Of all the names floated to date, that to me is Franklin.  The problem is, as T-Never consistently reminds us, is that there are powerful forces (e.g., Letterman) who have a not insignificant influence (I love convoluted negatives) on the whole affair.  I imagine this is true at other schools as well, but has there ever been a coaching hiring scenario quite like this one?  I can't recall it if it exists.
You have to erase the O'Brien signing two years ago. Everyone knew they had to go outside. Maybe they go outside this time. But Dave Jones is already smearing Franklin on pennlive.com

Possible comp: Ohio State after Woody. Earle Bruce was kind of a Woody clone, minus the anger-management issues. The brand of football never changed. You could argue it never really changed until Meyer arrived 35 years later.

Don't forget. Hackenberg went under center, not shotgun, over 70 percent of the time in 2013. He won't leave just because Franklin doesn't get job. In fact, he seems pretty committed to his teammates, based on his recent tweets. They will lose O''Connor unless Franklin gets the job, leaving Hack as only scholarship QB on squad.
 

Dgilpin

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Obviously take this with a grain of salt but my coworker was a team mate of Franklin in college . He has talked to people still close with Franklin and said that the job was offered to Franklin and he's currently mulling it over