2013-2014 Syracuse Basketball: Same Zone, New Conference

LeftyTG

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With news of Kaleb Joseph's oral commitment today along with the start of the Canadian exhibition tour in four days, I thought it would be a good time to start this thread.
 
Coming off the Final Four run last year, this year's team is deep and certainly capable of making a return trip.  Syracuse will boast arguably the best front court in the nation, led by ACC player of the year candidate CJ Fair.  Fair put up 14.5ppg last year and 7rpg.  He extended his range to the three point line to the tune of shooting 47% (30 of 64), though he wasn't hoisting up a ton of 3's.  He was seldom the primary option on offense last year, though he had stretches where he carried the offense (see the Michigan game in the Final Four).  How he adapts at being the primary focus of the defense this year will be one of the keys to the season for Syracuse.  I expect that he's spent a ton of time this summer working on his handle.  He is a very intelligent player who is a good decision maker with a good feel for the game.  He has a nice touch around the basket and seems to have a good feel for angles (helps that he is lefty).  His jumper has improved a ton since his freshman year, and he can be deadly knocking down mid range jumpers and, as previously mentioned, hit the three.  The glaring weakness in his game, and the reason why he came back to school, is that he hasn't shown he can create his own shot off the dribble.  That's the thing I will be zeroing in on during the scrimmages and early part of the season.  He'll need to be able to create his shot off the dribble if he is to be a true number one scoring option for this team.
 
Beyond Fair, there is still a ton of depth and experience in the front court.  Center will be a mix of Keita, Christmas, and Coleman. 
Keita, the senior, provides a nonstop motor, unusual lateral quickness for a 6'10" guy, and a senior's understanding of the nuances of the zone.  He even proved he could be a reliable free throw shooter last year.  His downside is that he is still rail thin and can be pushed around and his offense is limited to putbacks and dunks (provided he actually catches the ball, which he did improve at last year). 
 
Christmas will be a junior and has been a disappointment thus far.  He was a McDonald's AA and while most Syracuse fans cut him slack for a lackluster freshman year, most expected a Fab Melo like improvement into his sophomore year.  That didn't really materialize, and Christmas spent the season splitting minutes instead of owning the position.  He has all the physical tools and is pretty good holding down the middle on defense.  His problem is that he is a laid back personality and lacks any kind of motor.  He seems to be the player that exasperates Boeheim the most, and it is easy to see why.  If he could sustain any semblance of focus and intensity, he'd be a force.  But he doesn't and skates by on his natural talent, which makes him serviceable.  In my experience it rare to see a passive low motor type morph into a high motor aggressive type, but here's hoping.
 
Coleman, another McDonald's AA, had huge expectations last year (CALIPARI WANTED HIM!!!!) and was a disappointment, at least relative to expectations.  Personally, I never expect much out of a freshman big.  Regardless, Coleman came in as a hulking bruiser and learned quickly that he couldn't bowl over high D-1 post defenders the way he could high school bigs.  Coleman struggled some with conditioning and especially with his lift, as he was frequently blocked in the post.  He lost confidence and started fading away and focused on not getting blocked, which hurt his shooting percentage more.  A midseason knee surgery knocked him out several weeks and when he returned he didn't even reclaim his token starting spot.  Still, there is much to be encouraged by.  Reports are that he has slimmed down in the offseason.  He's always had light feet for a man his size and he does have unusual brute strength combined with a soft touch around the rim  Once he figures out how to get his shot off, I think he'll be a dominant force on offense.  He has always been a good rebounder, as he is a wide body and doesn't get pushed around.  He has a high motor for rebounding too and collects his area and more.  He could be a DaJuan Blair/Michael Sweetney type player once he is fully developed.  For the third year in a row, Syracuse fans will be waiting anxiously to see what kind of leap a freshman big takes into his sophomore year.
 
Little was expected of Jerami Grant coming into his freshman year, and he exceeded even the most wildly optimistic expectations in becoming a consistent rotation player.  He displayed stunning athleticism and his 7'2" wingspan made him a terror rotating on defense, shot blocking, and rebounding.  He showed the makings of a solid jumper and even knocked down his share of 3's (though it wasn't a big part of his game last year).  Like most freshmen, consistency was an issue and he needs to get stronger.  He made the U19 US team this summer, but a bout with mono knocked him out of action.  While he'll need to mature into his body and, like Fair, develop more of a handle, the sky is the limit with him.  It is entirely possible that, in Fair and Grant, Syracuse will have two NBA first round draft picks at forward in next year's draft.
 
So, like I mentioned, the front court is stacked.  The back court has talent, but it is young and unproven.  Much of the success of Syracuse's season falls on the shoulders of their freshman PG, Tyler Ennis.  The good news is that Ennis (6'2" with a 6'5" wingspan) was a 5 star recruit and one ID'ed early and pursued unusually hard by Boeheim.  Ennis is an excellent ball handler, capable shooter, and is able to penetrate and get to the rim.  He is comfortable distributing the ball and running an offense looking to get everyone involved.  He does not have elite athleticism and is a bit of an old school guard in that he employs a lot of changes of pace and uses angles to get defenders off balance.  He played at St. Benedicts and competed against other elite high school talent and did well, which is encouraging.  Still, nothing in high school compares to playing major D-1 basketball, especially for a team with Final Four aspirations.  Having a true freshman PG is a scary thing and there is bound to be a learning curve, but Ennis is all Syracuse has right now.  He's the only PG on the roster, and the biggest hole on this team is the lack of a backup PG (which makes the Joseph commitment so important for next year).  But hey, Syracuse did ok the season when Gerry McNamara was a freshman PG, right? :whistling:
 
Joining Ennis in the backcourt will be Duke transfer, redshirt sophomore Michael Gbinije and redshirt sophomore Trevor Cooney. 
 
To be blunt, Cooney was an absolute disaster last year.  He was a highly sought after recruit and widely considered to be one of the best 3 point shooters in his class.  He redshirted his freshman year having Scoop/Triche/Dion/MCW ahead of him in the backcourt and much was expected of him last year after hearing reports of how hard he worked and how lights out he was shooting in practice all year.  Rather than being a sharp shooter, he flat out couldn't shoot (27% from 3).  Supposedly, much of his problem is mental, as he has a good stroke and kills it in practice.  He is a very intense competitor and often times last year seemed overexcited on the court and rushed his shot.  Hopefully the game slows down for him this year and he can relax and knock down 3's.  If not, he'll be stapled to the bench and probably transfer (sucks for him that he already burned his redshirt year).  He's actually pretty good on defense, as he is very active and his understanding of the zone rotations lets him accomplish more than his average lateral quickness should allow.  At 6'4" he has the size Syracuse covets at the top of the zone.  I know it was fashionable to hate on Cooney last year, and I certainly had my share of moments of cursing at the tv after yet another rushed airball, but I defended the kid all last year and I still believe in him.  There's no simulating the pace, intensity, and pressure of the real games and some kids adjust mentally faster than others.  I look at him and see someone who, if they would just relax, could be that deadeye shooter every team covets.  Even I will concede, though, that if he has another year this year like last year, then he should probably never see the floor for meaningful minutes again. 
 
Gbinije is another big question mark.  He was a top 30ish recruit coming out of high school and signed with Duke where he played a little bit as a freshman.  He somewhat unexpectedly decided to transfer from Duke and even more unexpectedly (both given Syracuse's move to the ACC and Boeheim and Coach K's friendship) landed at Syracuse.  Gbinije is a 6'7" swingman who will mostly play the 2 for Syracuse.  He ran the point for the scout team all last year while he sat out, going against MCW and held his own by the end of the season.  If so, he'll likely be the guy who takes over point while Ennis gets a blow.  Boeheim said that he wouldn't want Gbinije playing point 20mpg, he thinks Gbinije can do it 8-10mpg.  What makes Gbinije so interesting is that he was a 2 in high school, a 3 at Duke, and is a 1/2 at Syracuse (with some 3 if they need to go small or add shooters).  Flexibility is good, and I love his size and athleticism at the top of the zone.  It is somewhat of an open question who will start at the 2, but my money is on Gbinije with Cooney coming off the bench.
 
Syracuse adds 5 freshmen to the mix this year.  I already touched on Ennis, who will be relied on heavily.  The others will need to earn their time.
BJ Johnson, my personal favorite and sleeper pick, is a 6'8" two guard from Lower Merion (Kobe's hometown).  His dad is a former D-1 player at LaSalle who played a bit professionally in Europe.  BJ is one of the youngest players in his class and has a lot of filling out to do, but he has a fantastic handle and very good shooting stroke.  His dad has raised him well in the game and has guided his development, so BJ has a mature understanding of the game and works hard.  I'm particularly enamored with having a 6'8" two guard and have dreams of a lineup of 6'7" Gbinije and 6'8" Johnson at the top of the zone along with Grant/Christmas/Fair with their 7 foot plus wingspans along the back.  We saw how effective the zone could be with tall guards with MCW last year.  That would be an insane defensive alignment.  Anyway, the 4th guard spot is pretty wide open (and 3rd if Cooney doesn't improve).  If BJ can knock down open 3's (and at 6'8" he should get his share of open looks over shorter guards) he'll get minutes.  At the same time, given his young age and immature physique, part of me hopes Cooney/Patterson can fill out the guard rotation and BJ can redshirt.  I really think he could be a monster down the road.
 
Ron Patterson (6'3" SG) - I mentioned him previously, and he is the opposite of BJ Johnson in that he is an older freshman, having spent a year in prep school when Indiana, who he had committed to out of high school, didn't admit him (he was eligible by NCAA standards, but Crean over recruited.  Shady stuff by Crean if you ask me.)  He spent a year at Brewster, alma mater of CJ Fair and where current Syracuse super recruit Chris McCullough plays.  Patterson has the rep of being a top notch athlete, and absolute terror on defense, and a guy who can knock down an open 3.  His handle needs work and he can be a bit reckless in going to the hoop and with his decision making in general.   
 
Chinoso Obokoh (6'10" C) - project big from nearby Rochester.  He is a likely red shirt candidate and the hope is he becomes a solid program player.  His upside is Keita with a bit more of an offensive game.  He was high school teammates with 5 star 2015 target Thomas Bryant, which can't hurt.
 
Tyler Roberson (6'7" PF) - the highest rated recruit besides Ennis (he picked Syracuse over Villanova and Kansas).  He has the talent to push his way into a crowded Syracuse front court and gives Syracuse some insurance should Grant blow up and leave for the NBA after this year.  Roberson is a tough, physical player with both an inside game and a jumper that extends to the arc.  He can put it on the floor. 
 
 
The Syracuse basketball program is a machine that churns out 20 win seasons, and recently has taken a step forward into being a perennial top 10 team (two 1 seeds and a final four berth in the last 4 tournaments).  Recruiting is consistently at the highest level it has been since the 80's.  There is a ton of talent on this team and, as I said at the outset, a Final Four run is realistic.  Still, there are some glaring holes.  Backup PG is an issue, and PG as a whole will be an issue should Ennis get hurt or be slow to adjust to the college game.  Syracuse also has very little in the way of proven perimeter shooting, though there is potential there on paper. 
 
The defense should again be a strength of this team.  They have the length and athleticism to execute the zone at a high level and will be in a conference that isn't as familiar with it, the way several BE schools seemed to acclimate to it (unfortunately, Pitt is one of those teams).  I think the ACC style of play is a better fit for what Syracuse has always wanted to be on offense.  The BE wrestling matches I always felt stymied what Syracuse wanted to do (I'll be interested to see how Pitt adjusts to the less physical ACC).  I was sad to see the demise of the Big East, but it was inevitable and the BE leadership certainly proved inept in dealing with the realities of college athletics.  So while I was sad to see all the historic rivalries be altered, I'm glad Syracuse ended up in the ACC.  I think it is a good fit for the school and this new basketball conference will be insane.  The Duke game at the Dome on February 2nd where they may put the court in the center and open up the entire Dome for seating will certainly be memorable. 
 
Sorry this is so long.  I start typing, and before I know it this happens.  Anyway, Go Orange!
 

Rossox

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Obama is in Syracuse and the hoops team is playing ball in Montreal. Just another typical August day in CNY.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Great write-up, Lefty!  I know we're just at the start of college football season (I don't have huge expectations for SU in the ACC), but I already can't wait for the college basketball season.  I'm very high on SU hoops this year, as you are, and for good reason.  The team is loaded, deep, and very talented, despite consistently losing top players year after year.  It's always difficult to make a Final Four, but this year's team has as legit a shot as anyone to get there.  
 
Ennis, to me, is the key guy.  If he plays like he's capable, this team will do great things.  If he struggles as a freshman, they'll still be pretty good, but not a credible Final Four threat.
 

Doooweeeey!

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Lefty, this and your football post of the same ilk made my day.  
There's more good stuff in both of these posts than I can find just about anywhere.
(Where else but on a Red Sox board!!)
 
Looking forward to the basketball season (ACC-style) already!
 

LeftyTG

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ivanvamp said:
When does basketball season start again?
IT IS FINALLY HERE!!!  Seems like an appropriate time to bump the thread.
 
After a sketchy first half where they were down 12 to Cornell, Syracuse came out to play in the second half and won by 22.  Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I missed the first half half.  In the second half the team was more deliberate in getting the ball low, working their athleticism advantage, and bottling up Nolan Cressler, who had gone off for 20 in the first half.
 
Jerami Grant did not play, serving a one game suspension due to playing in multiple summer league games.  Yay NCAA.
 
The story of the game for Syracuse was Cooney, who went 7-8 from 3 and 10-12 overall.  Cooney had big expectations last year, having been considered one of the top few shooters in his high school class and coming off a red shirt year where there was tons of buzz of how hard he worked and how he killed it in practice.  Last year, of course, was an awful shooting year and Cooney was a big question mark for the team, replacing Triche.  While last night is only 1 game, it certainly is a good indicator going forward.  Cooney looked confident and his shot looked fluid.  Last year he always looked rushed in his form and had a tendency to drift instead of going straight up.  Last night he knocked down a few threes off of curls that looked downright Rautins or GMac-ish.  If Cooney can become that Southerland/Rautins type of knockdown 3 point shooter this year, it'll raise the ceiling of the team's offense considerably as it'll give Fair more room to operate low and open up driving lanes for the perimeter players.
 
Ennis scored 1 point in his debut, but he led the team in rebounds and assists.  He only had 2 turnovers and appeared in control the whole game.  He missed shot he'll make, so I'm not particularly concerned.  He had a few defensive breakdowns, but that is to be expected for a freshman in the 2-3 zone.  Obviously, more than any other player on the roster, this year's Syracuse team rises and falls based on Ennis.  He's it - he'll be playing 35 minutes a night as Syracuse - literally - does not have another point guard on the roster.  Boeheim swears up and down that Ennis has poise and maturity beyond his years and that he's ready.  I tend to believe him, as Boeheim usually tells it like it is, both good and bad, and Ennis acquitted himself well in the canadian preseason games.  But it will remain a huge question mark throughout. 
 
Speaking of Boeheim, he went on a bit of a rant last night against those who think this year's team is better than last year's team.  Boeheim found that nuts and said that MCW was the best defensive guard he has ever had (which I agree with - having his length and quickness at the top of the zone was hugely disruptive), Triche was a 4 year starter, and Southerland who made an NBA roster.  I think Boeheim has a point, in that this is a young team that needs to grow and improve a lot to match what Syracuse has done the last couple of years.  You don't get it handed to you because of the name on the front of the jersey, which is what the team learned in the first half against Cornell.  I do still believe that this year's team has more talent than last year's team.  I was never a Triche guy.  I thought he peaked as a sophomore and never got better.  He was a solid and dependable defender and useful as a secondary ball handler, but he was a total headcase on offense with wild swings of confidence and had below average quickness, needing to use his bulk to power through and get into the lane.  I think the Cooney/Gbinije combination is an upgrade there.  The loss of MCW is significant (especially seeing what he is doing in the NBA this year) but while Ennis isn't the athlete that MCW is, he'll be steadier and is a better shooter.  MCW really struggled last year when teams started playing off him and playing the pass when MCW penetrated, and MCW really struggled to finish in the paint.  He also spent about half the season in "impress the NBA scouts" mode and took a lot of ill advised 3's and step back jumpers, trying to showcase his shot.  I think Ennis will be content to play the conductor's role this year and will only look to fill in offense as needed, and if so I think the falloff from MCW will not be as severe as feared.  This year's team will need to grow and mature as the season goes, but CJ Fair will be better this year and Grant looks poised to make a big leap (he's projected as a late lottery pick in some mock drafts). 
 
I liked what I saw of BJ Johnson last night.  I think he'll be a monster before his time at Syracuse is over.  He's smart, long, quick and can really shoot.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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All things considered, I'm ok with the opening game of the season.  An improved Cooney helps this team immensely.  I'm worried about the PG situation as I'm not confident that Gbinije can handle it if Ennis is out or goes down.  I think being in a new conference will help them on defense - teams that don't see SU regularly tend to be overwhelmed by the 2-3.  Fair is a stud, and I think we'll see improved play from Coleman and Christmas.  They have tons of size to bang the ACC around.
 
I'm just so excited that college hoops is here!
 

LeftyTG

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Doooweeeey! said:
Coleman, Christmas, Grant, Keita and Fair - that's a lot of big bodies.  This group should be a shot blocking machine.  
Don't forget Roberson.  He might be the most talented of the whole bunch.
 
On the recruiting front, following last year's big 5 recruit class, this year's class is only 2 - both of whom officially signed earlier this week.
 
Kaleb Joseph is a 6'3" PG, a top 10 PG in his class and a borderline top 50 recruit.  He was an important get for Syracuse, as he'll likely be a good, solid 4 year player for him and provides quality depth at PG, which is the team's biggest weakness this year.  Joseph also provides insurance for if (when?) Ennis leaves early for the NBA. 
 
Chris McCullough is a 6'10" power forward, a 5 star recruit and a likely one and done guy.  He was a huge get for Syracuse and committed very early.  He is an outstanding, explosive, fluid athlete.  He will likely slide right into CJ Fair's spot next season. 
 
The bad news with McCullough is he just recently got kicked out of his high school for reasons that are unknown.  He has yet to land anywhere else (to my knowledge), so his ability to academically qualify for next year is up in the air.
 
Next year should be a very interesting recruiting class, as Syracuse is in good shape with a number of elite prospects.  They already have a commitment from Tyler Lydon, a 6'8" power forward who has been a quick riser in the rankings.  He's an excellent perimeter shooter, but can rebound the position, which is especially intriguing for Syracuse, where the 3/4 are indistinguishable defensively.
 
Syracuse is also in very good position with Thomas Bryant (a Rochester kid who is at Huntington Prep this year), a top 5 PF (more interior focused, he could play with Lydon) and Derrick Jones, a 6'6" small forward who may be the best athlete in the entire class. 
 

LeoCarrillo

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Gonna be an interesting work in progress. I like the Fair-Xmas-Grant front line together.

Not feeling Final Four but close.
 

ivanvamp

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I was at the game on Saturday (first time back at the Dome in a while).  Fun as usual.  I didn't like the PA announcer, as he kept updating us on the score ("Basket by CJ, Syracuse now leads, 5-0."….).  I'm like, shut up already, we can see the score on those huge screens.
 
But the place was fully decked out in orange.  Love it, love it, love it.  I really miss being there.  What I *DON'T* love, however, is how our warmups and unis now seem to have permanently acquired gray as a color.  Gray is for Georgetown, not Syracuse.  Our colors are orange and blue.  But there was no blue to be found on the warmups or uniforms.  When the hell did gray become part of our color scheme?  Oh that's right, when nike took over.  Great.
 
The game was very lackluster.  Cooney had a great dunk, Fair was his usual solid self, Ennis looked pretty good, but they only scored 69 points against Colgate.  They must have missed 20 free throws or layups/dunks combined.  It's a good thing it was just against Colgate, because if they played like that against Duke they would have lost by 30.
 
An interesting conversation we were having.  At the end of the game, SU had 69 points.  We had checked on the halftime score of the SU-FSU football game, and FSU was up 38-0.  We wondered if Florida State was going to score more points against SU in football than SU scored against Colgate in basketball.  Mercifully, that didn't happen, but FSU sure could have if they wanted to.
 

LeoCarrillo

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We shot horribly despite good looks against Colgate. 37% on FGs, 29% on 3s and 43% at the line. That's just one of those things.

My observation is that the team looks clunky together. Not working back door lobs, high post feeding low post (tellingly Keita seems to be the most dialed in to those heads up plays, along with CJ which illuminates the otherwise inexperience of the team). Good news is that Jimmy can build cohesion in four months. Still, against the Cornell/Fordham/Colgates, I'd like to see more open oop slams by Xmas for example.

My other thought is about playing time. Is Dajuan gonna get enough minutes to develop this year? Or gbinije? Let alone BJ Johnson and Roberson.

Seems Jimmy is good with CJ, Xmas, Grant, Ennis, Cooney and then Keita getting all the minutes, with gbinije existing only to spell Ennis.

Lots of similar pieces, and I like the amount of pressing so far. That could be a way to get the freshmen some action. Patterson seems pesty in the press.
 

LeftyTG

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LeoCarrillo said:
We shot horribly despite good looks against Colgate. 37% on FGs, 29% on 3s and 43% at the line. That's just one of those things.

My observation is that the team looks clunky together. Not working back door lobs, high post feeding low post (tellingly Keita seems to be the most dialed in to those heads up plays, along with CJ which illuminates the otherwise inexperience of the team). Good news is that Jimmy can build cohesion in four months. Still, against the Cornell/Fordham/Colgates, I'd like to see more open oop slams by Xmas for example.

My other thought is about playing time. Is Dajuan gonna get enough minutes to develop this year? Or gbinije? Let alone BJ Johnson and Roberson.

Seems Jimmy is good with CJ, Xmas, Grant, Ennis, Cooney and then Keita getting all the minutes, with gbinije existing only to spell Ennis.

Lots of similar pieces, and I like the amount of pressing so far. That could be a way to get the freshmen some action. Patterson seems pesty in the press.
I agree with much of this.  The team does look clunky and seems to lack cohesion, both offensively and defensively.  Notably, on defense Syracuse has historically been excellent at defending the 3, holding teams to a high 20's/low 30's percentage.  This year they are giving up something like 38% for the year.  SSS, I know, but it bears watching.  The zone scheme is the same, the caliber of athlete is the same, but the experience/cohesion just isn't there.  The backcourt consists of a true freshman and two redshirt sophomores, all of whom are getting significant minutes for the first time.  How they grow means everything, as Syracuse's front court is loaded.  The backcourt is a legitimate concern though.  Is there enough shooting and offense  back there?
 
Coleman is frustrating because he just isn't adjusting to the college game.  He continually lowers his shoulder into his defender and either gets called for a foul, gets blocked, or hoists up a contested shot.  He has a lot of tools - he's huge, pretty nimble, has soft hands - but he is still playing like he is surprised there are guys his size and bigger defending him.  Since he is a liability on defense, he is going to have his minutes limited, deservedly so. 
 
Roberson/Johnson/Patterson just aren't going to get a ton of run this year.  Roberson probably deserves to, he just has 2 NBA draft picks playing ahead of him.  Johnson needs to get bigger/stronger/adjust to the speed of the game, but he is long and can shoot and wouldn't surprise me if things click for him in Jan/Feb and he starts getting some more minutes to jump start the team when they fall into offensive funks.  That being said, I'm not worried about their development.  Syracuse has patented the limited minutes freshman season to NBA draft pick sophomore season (Waiters, Melo, MCW).  I'm not saying any of these guys are going to blow up into NBA first round picks next year, only that Syracuse knows how to develop players and has a 30+ year track record of doing it.  These guys will be ready to be bigger contributors next year.
 

LeoCarrillo

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After the St. Francis near-debacle, another observation about our young backcourt: they don't run. A lot of passing up 3-on-2's and setting up the halfcourt.

I don't want to go negative on Ennis and Cooney so soon, but they leave a lot to be desired in creating O that's not post-ups, flashes to the free-throw line for Js or 3 pointers.

Hopefully it will come, and we've been spoiled with Waiters and MCW. Still, especially with the ref emphasis on whistling D on impeding,we need more drives, delayed breaks, finding slashing trailers and easy put-backs by guys like Grant and Keita.

Transition points. Which other than Cooney's one unconscious game in the opener, have been too rare.
 

ivanvamp

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I've not yet been impressed with this edition.  Lots of talent, but SO much to improve upon.  Hopefully they do improve.  We'll see.
 

Doooweeeey!

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Bump:  5:30 Eastern start time against Minnesota in the Maui Invitational.  Looks like a pretty good test.
Orange will be tested by another Pitino full court press.  Not that Louisville guy.  Richard, the younger, who just took over for Tubby Smith at UMinn. 
 

LeoCarrillo

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Good to see Ennis more aggressive with the dribble in the Minnesota game. Hadn't displayed that yet. Jimmy must've gotten on him in practice.
 

Rossox

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Also like the 0 turnovers from Ennis, especially against a "Pitino" led defense. Looking forward to seeing tonight's game against Cal.
 

LeoCarrillo

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Great to see the real Ennis hatch in Maui. Okay, that changes everything if he's our point guard, and not the guy we saw against colgate and st. Francis.

Now we've got a season.
 

ivanvamp

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Agreed.  He was fantastic last night.  Being a freshman, he'll have his ups and downs, but he obviously has the talent to be a major player this year.  It was also the best I've ever seen Grant look - that follow-dunk was phenomenal, but he also did some other real nice things out there.
 
As usual, SU can put out as athletic a lineup as anyone in the country.  I still hate watching them lose the rebound battle with a roster full of 6'9" guys that can jump through the roof.   :angry:
 

ivanvamp

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SU is starting strong again this season.  Another beat down of Indiana, which is always nice.  Plus the Maui title.  Typical Syracuse - tons of long athletes, the zone gives people headaches, and they have a few guys that can score, so that on any night someone can put up 20.
 
They might not make the Final Four again, but they're going to be a handful for anyone.
 

LeoCarrillo

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After the grind of the mega-Big East, I can't believe the only other ranked ACC team is Duke. Granted, that can change, but currently not even NC is Top 25, let alone the generally good teams like Wake, Maryland, FSU, maybe Clemson.

The Maui run and Ennis' emergence made me a believer we were legit Top 10. But, I mean, with two more games against currently ranked teams, that's a pretty wide open road to a 1 or 2 seed in March. At that point, Final Four is very much on the table.

Who'd a think it after St. Francis?
 

DukeSox

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Ahhhh my friend, do not overlook road ACC games against unranked teams. Even the poor ones are much better than the dregs of the bottom of the recent Big East.

No road gimmes in the ACC.
 

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DukeSox said:
Ahhhh my friend, do not overlook road ACC games against unranked teams. Even the poor ones are much better than the dregs of the bottom of the recent Big East.

No road gimmes in the ACC.
That January game at the Conte Forum has me shaking in my boots. :q:  Kidding aside, conference road games are always tough. Nobody is expecting Cuse to walk all over the ACC.
 
Definitely happy to see the emergence of this young backcourt. Cuse, like pretty much every other team in the country, has flaws but their zone and 4 legitimate 20 point a game scorers should make this a fun season.
 
And, yes, I am circling Feb. 1 and Feb. 22 in my calendar.
 

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Not that it means a whole lot at this time of the year, but the Orange are now ranked #2 in the country (AP, #3 USA Today/Coaches poll).
 
It's very likely to stay that way for at least a week.  Their next game is against St. Johns at Madison Square Garden next Sunday.
Next four after that, High Point, #10 Villanova, Eastern Michigan and their ACC kickoff against Miami are all played at the Dome.
 
I'm surprised they're this highly ranked this early, but it appears Ennis and Cooney are opening some eyes, and the defense (not just the zone) is starting to come together.
 

ivanvamp

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Doooweeeey! said:
Not that it means a whole lot at this time of the year, but the Orange are now ranked #2 in the country (AP, #3 USA Today/Coaches poll).
 
It's very likely to stay that way for at least a week.  Their next game is against St. Johns at Madison Square Garden next Sunday.
Next four after that, High Point, #10 Villanova, Eastern Michigan and their ACC kickoff against Miami are all played at the Dome.
 
I'm surprised they're this highly ranked this early, but it appears Ennis and Cooney are opening some eyes, and the defense (not just the zone) is starting to come together.
 
Well they started the year at like #7 or #8, and they've done nothing but win, and they've even beat a couple of really good teams in the process pretty decisively.  Add in some losses by the teams ahead of them and I'm not surprised.
 
Of course, no way they last up here because they'll lose a few games this season for sure, but that's ok.  Clearly they are one of the best teams in the country.
 

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ivanvamp said:
 
Well they started the year at like #7 or #8, and they've done nothing but win, and they've even beat a couple of really good teams in the process pretty decisively.  Add in some losses by the teams ahead of them and I'm not surprised.
 
Of course, no way they last up here because they'll lose a few games this season for sure, but that's ok.  Clearly they are one of the best teams in the country.
I'd quibble with "really good teams."  Minnesota, Cal, Baylor and Indiana is not a pushover non-conference slate, but only Baylor is ranked in the Top 25.
But you're right, if you don't lose, you generally don't drop.  I think this will be a good opportunity to see if the team has some Final Four qualities they can demonstrate early on.
Everything changes when conference play starts.
 

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Otto said:
Richardson is a fantastic get for Syracuse.  He's a 6'6" 2 guard who is an elite 3 point shooter.  He'll fit in nicely at the top of the zone.  I followed Roselle Catholic a good bit last year, as current Syracuse freshman Tyler Roberson played on that team.  Roberson and Richardson just dominated together and Roselle not only won a state championship but they won the tournament of champions against St. Anthony, who had won 93 straight games against NJ competition, including back to back championships.  Along with Lydon, the inclusion of Richardson ensures that Syracuse will have excellent outside shooting in the years to come.  Now lets gets Bryant and Diagne and call it a class.
 
 
As for this year's team, I've been pretty quiet as I just don't have a great feel for them.  I thought they were incredibly overrated earlier in the season, but the team has made great strides defensively and now look competent.  I'm hoping they'll keep growing there with more game experience.  I still worry about the offense, as I feel they lack a guy who can really create his own shot.  They do a good job of getting Fair the ball in places where he can either knock down a midrange jumper or take one or two dribbles and get to the lane.  They do a good job of freeing up Cooney for 3 point looks.  Ennis has been fantastic at facilitating and picking his spots.  The offense clearly isn't terrible.  But Syracuse lacks a guy who, when things break down, can just create offense with the dribble and get an easy shot (someone like Waiters or MCW).  Ennis is great at what he does, but he isn't that guy.  I worry this deficiency will bite them more than once this year.  They will also struggle any time Ennis is in foul trouble, especially if it is against a team that can apply full court pressure.  Ennis is Syracuse's only real ball handler, and it isn't close.  Gbinije has had his pocket picked at least half a dozen times already.
 
On the bright side, Cooney has turned into the player many hoped for last year.  He's been just fantastic this year.  He'll never be a great penetrator, but he is now picking his spots as teams jump out on his shot, and he is a tenacious and intelligent defender.  Gerry McNamara has done a fantastic job with him.  
 
The game against Villanova on 12/28 should be a good one, and I'll be interested in how they look after a long layoff against St. johns on Sunday.
 

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LeftyTG said:
On the bright side, Cooney has turned into the player many hoped for last year.  He's been just fantastic this year.  He'll never be a great penetrator, but he is now picking his spots as teams jump out on his shot, and he is a tenacious and intelligent defender.  Gerry McNamara has done a fantastic job with him.  
 
I wrote the bolded having not yet seen the NY Times article on the GMac/Cooney relationship.
 
 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/14/sports/ncaabasketball/syracuse-coach-looks-beyond-arc-and-sees-himself.html?ref=sports&_r=0
 

ivanvamp

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Tough win at MSG yesterday against a scrappy St. John's squad.  Ennis was great, Fair was the go-to guy, and Grant had a huge two-handed stuff at the end of the game.  
 
It hasn't always been pretty for this group, but they have some stones.
 

LeoCarrillo

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It was quick, and no replay, but I swear Grant had a two-handed stuff in the first half too. It was immediately after his own drive, float and slam. And then he blocked a Jonnie two-handed in the lane. Not as awesome as the dunk denial late. It was in a crowd and the Guys in the truck were spooling up the dunk for replay and missed it.

But wow, what athleticism. I'm seeing mock drafts with Grant around No. 20, but I'm really hoping Harvey and Horace banked enough NBA cash that Jerami won't feel the pressure to come out and bankroll his family, like so many other college prospects. Another year and he's lottery.
 

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Ennis has a little Billy Edelin to him, which is alright by me. He's a tough finisher and with just enough of an outside shot to keep people honest. But man, they are not good when he's not on the court. Gbinje doesn't seem to add much right now. Hopefully he can improve as the season goes on.
 

ivanvamp

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LeoCarrillo said:
It was quick, and no replay, but I swear Grant had a two-handed stuff in the first half too. It was immediately after his own drive, float and slam. And then he blocked a Jonnie two-handed in the lane. Not as awesome as the dunk denial late. It was in a crowd and the Guys in the truck were spooling up the dunk for replay and missed it.

But wow, what athleticism. I'm seeing mock drafts with Grant around No. 20, but I'm really hoping Harvey and Horace banked enough NBA cash that Jerami won't feel the pressure to come out and bankroll his family, like so many other college prospects. Another year and he's lottery.
 
Yes, he's a freakish athlete for sure.  Classic Syracuse basketball body.
 

The Filthy One said:
Ennis has a little Billy Edelin to him, which is alright by me. He's a tough finisher and with just enough of an outside shot to keep people honest. But man, they are not good when he's not on the court. Gbinje doesn't seem to add much right now. Hopefully he can improve as the season goes on.
 
It's kind of amazing that they have only one legit point guard on this entire roster.  The proverbial eggs all in one basket, as it were.  
 

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I didn't see the game, but to get 21 from Cooney, 20 from Ennis and 17 from Fair is a convincing way to beat a very good Villanova team.
Bet they get a few more #1 votes this week.
 

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Doooweeeey! said:
I didn't see the game, but to get 21 from Cooney, 20 from Ennis and 17 from Fair is a convincing way to beat a very good Villanova team.
Bet they get a few more #1 votes this week.
impressive performance that did a lot to quiet some doubts I have had about this team.  Villanova tested Syracuse's ball handling, and they came through.  Ennis has really improved, in my opinion.  He's always been steady and mature for his age, but he seems to be finding his balance between being a scorer and facilitator.  I thought he was too passive and deferential early in the season.  He also has shown improved ability to break down the defense and get to the rim.  He needs to get better finishing at the rim, but that is largely a function of strength.  He does a good job of finding quirky angles and has an array of floaters.  
 
It was nice to get punched in the face.  Down 20-5 and 25-10 and to storm back like that is a good sign.  They stayed together and didn't try to play hero ball.
 
The team is still incredibly dependent on Ennis and Cooney and would be vulnerable to injuries/foul trouble/poor game for either player.  But apart from any of the aforementioned things happening, Syracuse is a really tough team right now.  The defense is starting to round into form.
 

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LeftyTG said:
impressive performance that did a lot to quiet some doubts I have had about this team.  Villanova tested Syracuse's ball handling, and they came through.  Ennis has really improved, in my opinion.  He's always been steady and mature for his age, but he seems to be finding his balance between being a scorer and facilitator.  I thought he was too passive and deferential early in the season.  He also has shown improved ability to break down the defense and get to the rim.  He needs to get better finishing at the rim, but that is largely a function of strength.  He does a good job of finding quirky angles and has an array of floaters.  
 
It was nice to get punched in the face.  Down 20-5 and 25-10 and to storm back like that is a good sign.  They stayed together and didn't try to play hero ball.
 
The team is still incredibly dependent on Ennis and Cooney and would be vulnerable to injuries/foul trouble/poor game for either player.  But apart from any of the aforementioned things happening, Syracuse is a really tough team right now.  The defense is starting to round into form.
I went back and reread your initial post as a way of checking progress. 
Right now one would have to say DaJuan Coleman is a big disappointment.  But Keita has picked up where he left off last year to mitigate that somewhat. 
Cooney and Ennis have been better than expected, but they will be brought back to earth in ACC play.
 
Fair has become what I expected him to be:  A Leader. 
The moment that stands out is the play in Maui where he dunked, was clearly fouled, gashed under the eye and never lost his cool.  Badass team play.
 

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To riff on Fair a little more:
He's stepping right into the shoes of these guys:  Wendell Alexis, Billy Owens, Hakim Warrick, Kris Joseph.  At least these guys games his reminds me of.
But actually his role on this team will be more like Rafael Addison's, Derrick Coleman's, Carmelo Anthony's.
 
I'm not comparing his abilities to theirs, but what's required of him will be similar. 
I just think there's something special about this lefty from Baltimore and by the end of this season we'll know for sure.
 
Edit:  Showing my age but I wasn't at 'Cuse to see the Louie and Bouie show, but Roosevelt belongs in this post somewhere.  ;-D
 
Edit 2:  Let's get the names right, shall we?
 

ivanvamp

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It was a great win, not just because they laid waste to a top 10 team, but because they were down 15 points in the first half and won by 16.  Down 25-10, they outscored Nova 68-37 the rest of the way.  Just crushed them.  Now I don't like getting down 15, especially to a good team, but the Orange fought back, showed some real mental toughness, and then absolutely buried them in the end.  
 

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It seemed like at least four times in that game Ennis saw there was only about 6 seconds on the shot clock, and every time he got a drive to the rim.

Not a drive, kick out, hurried off-balance 3 brick by Cooney or someone. A ball all the way to the rim or high-percentage floater in the lane.

This kid can beat fools 1-on-1.
 

ivanvamp

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LeoCarrillo said:
It seemed like at least four times in that game Ennis saw there was only about 6 seconds on the shot clock, and every time he got a drive to the rim.

Not a drive, kick out, hurried off-balance 3 brick by Cooney or someone. A ball all the way to the rim or high-percentage floater in the lane.

This kid can beat fools 1-on-1.
 
So…….is Ennis one-and-done, do you think?  I hope he sticks around another year.
 

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ivanvamp said:
It was a great win, not just because they laid waste to a top 10 team, but because they were down 15 points in the first half and won by 16.  Down 25-10, they outscored Nova 68-37 the rest of the way.  Just crushed them.  Now I don't like getting down 15, especially to a good team, but the Orange fought back, showed some real mental toughness, and then absolutely buried them in the end.  
 
Being down 18 is even worse!  Heckuva turnaround.
 
Re: Ennis, I don't see him being a one and done. Kid has a really mature game, though. Very impressed so far.
 
Interesting comps above for Fair. I see some Warrick (Fair is a better shooter) and Alexis in his game. But Owens?  He was a a ridiculous talent from his first collegiate game (like Melo). Not sure Fair is THAT type of player, but I'll take what I'm getting. Fair needs time to set up his shot from outside, but he's really improved that part of his game the past couple of years. I see some John Wallace in him as well. Both stuck around for 4 years, which helped their games tremendously.
 

ivanvamp

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Fair is pretty good at everything.  Good shooter, good scorer, good defender and shot blocker, good ball handler for a big guy, pretty good passer, good athleticism.  He's just not *great* at anything.  I love him as a college player; not so sure he'll be a whole lot at the next level.  I hope he is, though, because he's earned it.
 

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I see Ennis two and out. And I like where Jerami Grant is at right now. Any better and he'd be a goner. We're only a third of the way into the season but as of now I think Grant stays one more and aims for lottery pick next year. His family can't be desperate for the cash.

I'm starting to believe this team has a real title shot this year and don't want to get ahead. But if Grant comes back and McCullough is up to the billing, next season we could be even better. And FWIW, a very possible preseason No. 1.

But first things first. Loved the bullet pass from the free throw lane by Keita to a backdoor cutting Gbinije against Nova. That's Jimmy B at his finest. Raftery got loud.
 

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Rossox, that's a good call on Billy Owens and your substitute of John Wallace is more what I was going for.  
I wasn't trying to do direct comparisons, but more of a "who he reminds me of" kinda thing, with a measure of respect to their roles on the team.
 
I think it's safe to say Fair will be leaned on to be a scorer more than Alexis, Warrick and Wallace.
Probably about the same if a little more than Kris Joseph.
 
I know you mean Carmelo for Owens...not that Fab guy.  
 

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If you are willing to go outside Syracuse comps, the other day I read or heard someone compare Fair to Ed O'Bannon.  I thought that was a pretty good comp.  Fair doesn't have the handle and fluidity of Owens, is a better perimeter threat than Wallace (though that 3 he hit against UGA in the tournament is legendary) and is more offensively versatile than Warrick (hey, those spins moves in the post work in college).  I'm a bit weird, but if we're staying in the Syracuse family, I've always thought of Fair as a fully realized Josh Pace, if Pace was 6'8" and had a jump shot.
 

ivanvamp

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LeftyTG said:
If you are willing to go outside Syracuse comps, the other day I read or heard someone compare Fair to Ed O'Bannon.  I thought that was a pretty good comp.  Fair doesn't have the handle and fluidity of Owens, is a better perimeter threat than Wallace (though that 3 he hit against UGA in the tournament is legendary) and is more offensively versatile than Warrick (hey, those spins moves in the post work in college).  I'm a bit weird, but if we're staying in the Syracuse family, I've always thought of Fair as a fully realized Josh Pace, if Pace was 6'8" and had a jump shot.
 
Plus they're both lefty and wear #5.  
 

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Pretty ugly first ACC conf game today at home vs Miami. A late run saved the Orange because no shots were falling...took nearly 9 min for SU to score their first FG in the second half. Ugh.

Miami did a good job slowing down the pace, but they are not a good team. Glad this game was at the Dome. You don't win many games scoring only 49 pts.
 

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Rossox said:
Pretty ugly first ACC conf game today at home vs Miami. A late run saved the Orange because no shots were falling...took nearly 9 min for SU to score their first FG in the second half. Ugh.

Miami did a good job slowing down the pace, but they are not a good team. Glad this game was at the Dome. You don't win many games scoring only 49 pts.
that game has to be about as bad as Syracuse can play.  If you are a glass half full guy, you can take solace in the fact that they managed to gut out a win.  
 
Cooney was off.  I only watched the second half and counted at least 8 layups or putbacks missed.  It was almost comical.  There was very little energy in the Dome and Miami was smart in playing at an extremely slow pace.  Fortunately, Miami sucks.  Lets hope this is the worst game they play all season.