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'18-'19 Warriors: Trouble In Paradise?

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by ifmanis5, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Golden State can still offer Durant the most money and longest term, as they will retain Bird rights.

    It's difficult to trade Durant; it's much easier to trade Green.
     
  2. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    29,545
    If you trade Draymond, you're going to get some valuable pieces back. May not be a current all-star but could certainly be someone who can develop into one. They certainly wouldn't be prohibitive favorites in that scenario but they'd still be in the mix.
     
  3. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    For sure. Don't ask me about Westbrook. Don't ask me about (some would say) ruining the NBA. Don't ask me about my beef with Dray.
    It's possible that it's good the dirty laundry got aired out but there is resentment all around. These guys already got their chips so the usual drive to get a ring that binds players together isn't here. I'm guessing Dray's point was also 'just remember, we won without you.' Interesting to see how this plays out.
     
  4. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Draymond's trade value is fascinating and is similar to that of Smart, albeit higher in theory. His market is pretty narrow in terms of suitors - it almost has to be a "contender" (quotes .because I am assuming that contender in this context means competing to go to the finals from the East or get to the WCF from the West). And narrowing the market further is the assumption that the Warriors would strongly prefer to deal Green out of the conference if they want to deal him at all.

    Assuming that is the case, where is the fit? There is no obvious one to me.

    Philadelphia could use his playmaking, defense and toughness but they need shooting more and don't have a logical return for GS.

    Milwaukee makes sense but what can they offer the Warriors?

    Toronto and Boston both have pieces to get a trade done in theory but to what end? Green is very valuable but when factoring in the trade cost, its not clear that he represents a significant upgrade from what either team has in terms of their respective depth.

    In short, even if the Warriors were motivated to move Draymond, there aren't obvious fits. If course, they could ship him to an also ran for some window expanding pieces but why would the other team trade for Green at this stage of his career?
     
  5. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Indiana?

    GSW - Draymond Green
    IND - Myles Turner + Thad Young
     
  6. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I remain a little intrigued with a Horford/Green pairing. The passing would be off the charts.
     
  7. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I forgot to mention Indiana and that is interesting. Turner is good but the Warriors would likely want more of a wing than a big in exchange for Green given their roster. That return doesn't seem like it would work for them. Furthermore, the Pacers would also lose some size in that swap.
     
  8. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Man, I was looking at trade machine to see if Charlotte could make something work. Oh my. How the hell do they have so many terrible contracts on their team?

    Batum - 3/72
    Biyombo - 2/34
    Williams 2/28
    Zeller 3/40

    Poor Marcus Morris. He is better than all those fools and he only makes 5 million
     
  9. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    The money is such it can't work--Celtics have no one they can trade between $20M (Irving) and $6M (Tatum). If you put in Hayward, then it's something like Green/Livingston, and that doesn't work at all, roster construction wise without other pieces being moved.

    As a side note, the ESPN NBA trade machine shows PER---Hayward's is higher than Green's this season.
     
  10. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    873
    What would a hypothetical Draymond trade even if look like? There is almost no historical precedent for a title contender dealing one of their best players in the middle of the season. Even when the Lakers traded Shaq and the Cavs Kryie they had a whole training camp to integrate new pieces. The best comp I could come up with is the Thunder trading James Harden on the eve of the '12-'13 season. In that deal they got a similar but inferior player in Martin, a recent lottery pick and a future lottery pick. Using that as a template and assuming they want him to go east, where's the match? To Indy for Thad Young and a pick? Washington for Markieff, Oubre, and a pick? Not a lot of options out there that make a ton of sense.
     
  11. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Yup its rare.

    The defefending Western Conf. champ '63-64 SF Warriors traded Wilt Chamberlain early in the'64- '65 season to Philly. The trade worked out better for Philly.
     
  12. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I don't think the Pacers make that trade anyway. They are going to have a lot of cap room this off season and I don't think Green/Oladipo are that great of a pairing.

    As good as Draymond is, I doubt he has much trade value. He's a square peg in a round hole. I agree with your comparison to Marcus Smart.

    Too bad Paul Milsap makes a boat load. That might be an interesting trade. I just don't see many teams that could use Draymond.
     
  13. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Not Eastern conference, but as long as we're spitballing: Draymond for Julius Randle (plus some salary ballast) might kinda sorta make sense for both teams, on paper. Dray$ reunites with old friend Alvin Gentry and slots in nicely alongside both AD and Mirotic. From the Ws perspective, Randle's not in Dray's universe as a defender, but he's a much better offensive player, with a few Draymondian qualities (ability to slide to smallball 5, physical style of play, rebounding, passing, e.g.)

    On the other hand, I doubt the Ws would want to deal with the Davis/Dray$ death combo in their own conference, and I'm not really sure NOP would even go for it, given that Randle is four years younger, a lot cheaper, and off to a fantastic start this season (by traditional stats, anyway).

    Strongly doubt anything major happens till the offseason in any case. I get the sense KD, Dray, and the team are way too strongly committed to going after the three-peat to shake things up now. They already seemed to be making nice in last nights's game (smiling, chest-patting, etc.); within a week or two, I suspect the outward manifestations of the feud (such at is) will mostly be papered over, and that we won't really see how deep any fault lines run until free agency begins.
     
  14. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    When can Smart be traded? Jan 15th or something like that, right? Smart/Brown would work. Or, Smart/Morris/picks.
     
  15. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    The Wiz should do anything to rearrange their roster. Green and Livingston for Oubre and either Beal or Porter works in the trade machine (+ pick?). Not that GS would do that but that may be as much as they could get around the league.
     
  16. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    January 15th is the date.
     
  17. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I was going to mention a trade for Randle but I can't see moving Dray for that small a return. I also think the better fit for GS might be Mirotic anyway.
     
  18. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Green for Derrick Favors would work too but that's a meh return for GS and makes the competition stronger.
     
  19. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Staying in the West Portland would be an interesting fit as it would give them a very similar roster to the pre-Durant Warriors. However, that's complicated since the Blazers as of now are the 2nd best them in the West and the guy that GS would most likely ask for (Zach Collins) probably isn't on the table. Don't think that any combo of Aminu, Nurkic and ET even gets them in the conversation.
     
  20. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Doubtful that Indiana moves Turner for a 6'7" guy. Even given Turner's early season struggles Green doesn't really put them in the Toronto/Milwaukee class while simultaneously shrinking their window by replacing the 22 year old with a 29 year old.

    Green's a tough fit, as much due to his age as anything else. Given the shaky shooting I'm not sure how long he outlasts his physical decline, and he has had a habit of regular season cruising. So it's really only the contenders that need him.

    Toronto? I mean Val/Anunoby works for salary. Milwaukee would need to actually play Connaughton if they put together a package like DiVencenzo/Snell/Henson. He's just tough to deal. As he's also a Golden State lifer the Warriors probably are better off dealing Durant to fill in around Steph/Klay/Dray.
     
  21. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Marcus and Marcus works. If only.
     
  22. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    I wouldn't be interested in that package, to be brutally honest. Little Marcus is cost controlled for four years and is sort of Green's minime already. Plus he plays balls to the wall every game of the season. And I'm not sure Boston has a whole lot of interest in Dray either, given the hit the shooting takes swapping out Morris for Green. Durant, on the other hand...
     
  23. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    This is true but removing Marcus' shooting helps with the net impact to the team. I don't think Ainge would trade a top asset like Jaylen for Draymond but if the price reduces to Marcus/Marcus, I could see him being somewhat intrigued. Of course, Ainge had a chance to get Cousins for a relatively cheap price a couple years ago and passed so he might place Draymond in that same bucket.
     
  24. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    A Horford/Green/Tatum/Brown/Irving starting 5 would be a nightmare for the opposing team's offense. There bench wouldn't be as deep but I'm not sure how much it would hurt them. Marcus+Marcus is 50 minutes per game, Green would be around 30. That's another 6-7 minutes each for Rozier and Hayward. So they'd have about 6-8 minutes of extra play time to distribute.

    The 2 for 1 deal would get rid of any perceived minutes crunch and/or any notion of there not being enough shots for everyone. I think that team would be deadly but I also see no way GS would say yes. It might be one of those trades that makes the team slightly worse in the regular season but far better in the playoffs.

    Too bad GS would never do it. Although if it came down to trading Draymond, I'm not sure there's a much better package out there.
     
  25. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    18,778
  26. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    He's apparently fine, but jesus. Talk about thanks giving.

     
  27. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    SRN, Rozier for Quinn Cook, any interest?
     
  28. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Hmm, I don't think so. Rozier's superior speed, athleticism and rebounding are intriguing, but not as appealing overall as Cook's superior shooting. The Ws' roster is actually pretty thin in shooters after Steph, KD and Klay, especially with Steph hurt and the other two inexplicably bricking. Cook also seems super well-liked by his teammates (especially KD, who grew up in the same area); and after the Dray/KD flap I doubt they would make a lateral-ish move that could further erode team chemistry.

    Basically, I want Cook for the same reasons you want him. :)
     
  29. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    And on cue, Cook drops 19 in a +26 game, including 5-8 from three — putting him at 45.3% for his career, #2 all time among players with at least 180 attempts.

    #1? Steve Kerr at 45.4%, but you can kinda throw him out since he got to shoot with a closer line, and didn't shoot at near the same volume as Cook.

    Troubled Warriors bust the slump with a 125-97 beatdown of the Blazers.
     
  30. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Damn you!:)

    Rozier is completely disinterested in being a bench piece, so he'd probably have the same attitude with the Warriors.

    What contenders in the West could use a guard?
     
  31. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Even though Kerr played his 3 seasons with Jordan using the shorter line he was still getting wide open looks in rhythm from Jordan. I'm not sure it would have made a huge difference, if any, as he was 42.4% career from all those seasons playing without Jordan. Kerr's bump in those years was a similar percentage bump that BJ Armstrong had in the same role next to Jordan even with the further line.
     
  32. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, the shorter line for three seasons is a small factor; playing alongside MJ is a bigger one. I mean, I can't really dock Kerr points for the MJ factor (if we start to do that it's a slippery slope, since we have to do the same for Klay with Steph, Korver with LeBron, Cook with Durant, etc.) I do think volume is important to consider, though: Kerr shot them at a modest 3.6 attempts per 36 minutes over his career (almost all great looks created by MJ-Pippen-Manu-Parker-Duncan and co.), whereas Cook is launching them at a freer, more modern-day 5.5 attempts per 36 minutes (and up to 6.7 this season).

    But even if we consider only the three-year shorter-line factor, I think its fair to surmise that Cook would close the gap between 45.4% and 45.3%. Of course, 192 attempts is still a pretty small sample.

    The more pressing question regarding Cook for me is whether when Steph returns, Cook will go back to being a pure 10-15 mpg "Steph substitute" or if Kerr will be willing to sacrifice some size and defense to have them on the floor together for 5-15 mpg. My sense is that Steph in his current man-body is an excellent enough rebounder and capable enough of guarding SGs where it'd be fun to see the offensive devastation it could wreak to have four of the best shooters in the league on the floor at the same time. But then, coaches tend to be a lot more concerned about potential defensive liabilities than fans are.

    I'm guessing Kyrie-Rozier presented a similar conundrum (at least, before Rozier starting stinking up the joint). I haven't watched the Cs as closely as you guys: how often if at all has Stevens overlapped their minutes?
     
  33. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    2,556
    He's tried it a decent bit. It hasn't been pretty, mainly because Rozier isn't delivering on the shooting part of the equation, and also because Rozier hasn't been meshing with the overall offense well. It's more of an offensive issue than a defensive one, so it doesn't tell us how well Cook with Curry might work. My guess is that the Dubs would be overall positive from that combo, even with the weaker D.
     
  34. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    2,871
    Depends on how you're defining contenders.

    Teams with a title shot? Probably very few.

    Teams with a playoff shot? Probably a bunch.

    Everyone in the West outside of Phoenix probably thinks they can make the playoffs right now.

    The top of the standings right now are the Clippers, Memphis and OKC. They could all use a guard to varying degrees, probably dependent on whether they think Rozier could help at SG.

    Teams around 500 now, the Lakers or Kings could use him, but doubt they'd add. New Orleans and San Antonio could use guard help.

    I think for any of those teams it might come down to them evaluating whether he can play with a point guard, rather than as a point guard.
     
  35. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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  36. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Yeeesh. What's terrifying is not only the non-zero chance that he could have lost his life (the initial tweet of him standing there calmly chatting with CHP by the divider as cars whizzed past probably took weeks off my life) but also the much higher chance that he could have crunched, tweaked, or mangled something in a way that might not be a total life-changer for a civilian but would be a season-ender or possibly career-ender for an NBA player. Think Jay Williams.

    Whew. There but for the grace of God (or Hoops Gods, or Fate, or Chance, or Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.) go we all...
     
  37. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    I was just going through some photo albums today of me driving that road a couple months ago. That video was terrifying in the "that could have happened to me at any moment" sense. Glad he's ok.
     
  38. Kull

    Kull wannabe merloni SoSH Member

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    1,525
    You really want terrifying? Here's a quote from the story that was part of HRB's linked video:

    So yeah......if he's still standing there a few minutes longer........
     
  39. Smokey Joe

    Smokey Joe Member SoSH Member

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    [QUOTE="officials say roughly 10 minutes after the crash, another car lost control and slammed into Steph’s Porsche from behind...[/QUOTE]

    That was Cook.
     
  40. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Lolz.

    In more cheerful news, Steph has been scrimmaging with the team, and looks about ready to return, either tomorrow in Toronto or the next game in Detroit.
     
  41. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You mean Thursday, my Joerger loving friend. Per my post in the main NBA gamethread, Toronto is peaking right now. They will give the Warriors all they can handle and some more, even with the Warriors bench back to full strength with their now back-up PG Curry and back-up wing/big in Green.
     
  42. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Welp.



    Unless Deyonta Davis (doubtful) or Boogie wants to rush back (unwise) I guess the Warriors are now in the market for a full-size center? Looney and Jerebko have been great, but I don't think they're ready to bang full-time with NBA starting centers.

    In 20:20 hindsight, making more of an effort to keep Zaza or McGee might have been wise. Can Bogut be fished out from Down Under...?
     
  43. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    what happened to Jordan Bell?

    Chris Boucher is tearing up the G-League, I wonder what it would take to land him
     
  44. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Bell has regressed and has been badly outplayed by Looney. Looney's a lot bigger and longer, too.

    I miss Boucher, but I'm pretty sure NBA centers would break him in half.

    Pretty sure being at least 240 lbs. is a requirement for the "Boogie Placeholder."
     
  45. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    So... what did you guys think of Tyler Zeller? Of the names I’ve heard bandied about as a 1-2 month Boogie placeholder, he seems like one of the more hassle-free.
     
  46. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    26,071
    He is certainly passable. He can occupy space versus NBA bigs and is athletic enough to cover some space on switches but opposing teams will no doubt target him for switches when he is on the floor. He has some offensive skills around the rim but doesn't shoot at all from deep. He also is a middling rebounder.

    In short, he is ok as a backup but the idea that Boogie is going to be able to play more than 10 minutes a night for a long time seems overly optimistic. I expect he will take a lot longer to be really effective. And that may not be until the playoffs at least.
     
  47. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I don't think anything really happened to Bell. He's the same freelancer who is frequently out of position in both defensive and offensive sets. When Kerr played him spot minutes as a rookie he did so while recognizing there would be growing pains. Now in his second year it's pretty clear that Kerr simply doesn't trust him when you have Jones and Looney doing the right things on the floor.


    Meh, I don't think the Warriors really need to do anything. Their season begins in the spring when Boogie will be back and Jones could possibly be as well. In other words, their full-time center to replace Jones has been rehabbing and with the team all year. In the meantime I'm guessing he'll force fed some minutes to Bell and give Looney a larger role.
     
  48. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    5,095
    If its heft that you want we have a beefy Frenchman that can be had for any of your flotsam
     
  49. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    https://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors/article/Warriors-mailbag-DeMarcus-Cousins-return-13447778.php


     
  50. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Looks like you nailed it. After the Jones injury, Bob Myers had initially said he was open to kicking the tires on another full-size C (Willie Reed, Robin Lopez, e.g.?) but with Draymond on the mend and Boogie playing 5-on-5 in preparation for a fairly imminent stint in Santa Cruz, it sounds like they're standing pat.



    In the meantime, tonight should be a fairly daunting challenge for young Looney, in his hometown vs. the Greek Freak.
     

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