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11-23: Celtics vs. Hawks

Discussion in '2018 Celtics Game Threads' started by DrewDawg, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    21,329
    TAKE DOWN THE ENTIRE STANCHION LIKE SHAQ YOU BEAUTIFUL MOTHERFUCKER
     
  2. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    Check the Cavs @ 76ers score kids
     
  3. shawnrbu

    shawnrbu Member SoSH Member

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    23,019
    Has Baynes ever led the Celtics in scoring?
     
  4. shawnrbu

    shawnrbu Member SoSH Member

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    Rozier playing with the scrubs. Brad sending a message.
     
  5. AimingForYoko

    AimingForYoko Member SoSH Member

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    25,270
    hope he receives it
     
  6. jmm57

    jmm57 Member SoSH Member

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    1,262
  7. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    21,329
    Rozier leads the team in minutes. Brad liked what he brought tonight.
     
  8. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    Lots of "energy" whatever that is but still minus 7.
     
  9. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

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    3,463
    He has pogo sticks for legs.
     
  10. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    Their depth is pathetic.
     
  11. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    the first quarter was insane, let's get that going every night.

    not sure if the Hawks got it below 14 again
     
  12. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    That’s a garbage stat for him, he played great when he was in. Not his fault they jacked up 9 threes in a row and none of the guards ran back to play D.

    Not sure he was beaten once on D, either.
     
  13. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    Garbage stat because you don't agree with what it shows.

    Look, I like him too but he isn't ready to play anything other than garbage minutes yet. Anyone expecting anything different is wishcasting.
     
  14. shawnrbu

    shawnrbu Member SoSH Member

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    23,019
  15. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    30,091
    Jeremy Lin was a +15 over 30 minutes. 19 points, 10 assists, 5 rebounds, 3 steals.

    We almost made it out of a game without an opposing guard having a night...
     
  16. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    21,329
    What does it show? He was very good in there and absolutely has a role playing 10-15 a game. Nobody who watched that game could possibly think he was a negative.
     
  17. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Garbage stat because it's a garbage stat in a game like this. You have to use your eyes to see what happened, and I didn't think he looked out of his depth tonight. Maybe he would against a better team, but not tonight.

    Vince Carter was a +14 in 10 minutes. Does that mean he basically hasn't lost a step?
     
  18. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    He is likely to get annihilated against any decent NBA competition playing 10-15 minutes. You must be seeing the game differently than Brad et al.
     
  19. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    How about Baynes, Hotrod? Have anything to add about that?
     
  20. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    Funny, the other say you were saying Jaylen has bad shot selection and needed to be spoken to, but now you pull out the “you think you know more than Brad” card. Can’t have it both ways.
     
  21. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    I am not advocating for Vince Carter to play for Boston. I am simply saying that a rookie big with a bunch of questions about his judgment is not the panacea that some are hoping for at this point in his development.

    Those who feel otherwise are essentially at odds with the evaluation of the Cs braintrust. Its possible people on this site are better at evaluating Williams readiness than the Celtics but I wouldn't wager on it.
     
  22. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    I like Baynes and he played great. But not alongside Horford which is what you were battling with HRB IIRC
     
  23. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Don't think I am. Brad pulled Jaylen after the shot I was referring to.
     
  24. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    This is such an insufferable argument. If questioning the judgment of coaches and ownership is not your thing (except when it is), why are you on a sports forum? Is the “how long did you play basketball” card coming out next?

    Look, you might be right about Williams, but saying why as opposed to “because Bead and Wyc said so” would do more for me personally. Good coaches make mistakes, too, and it’s not like this team is performing well.
     
    #224 Ed Hillel, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  25. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    I will stop. You are right on Williams. He should get 15 minutes per game. The Cs not doing so is a clear failing on their part.

    And its fine, I promise not to discuss this with you again. I will try not to be so insufferable going forward because I feel like the organization has earned the benefit of the doubt.
     
  26. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    20,313
    That 4th quarter was brutal.
     
  27. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    No, you were making the argument that Williams didn't play well tonight based on his -7. So, I was just wondering how good you thought Vince Carter played given he was a +14 tonight?

    I mean, Jeremy Lin was a +15 over 30 minutes. That means, for 30 minutes tonight out of 48, the Hawks were 15 points better than the Celtics. The Celtics were 33 points better than the Hawks over the other 18 minutes though, so it worked out well for us. But I know you know the problems with plus/minus, and I know you know those problems get even more prevalent in blowouts like this one, so I just don't understand why you're using that to defend your argument that Williams can't play in this league. If he played poorly, I didn't see it. If you did, then tell us what you saw, instead of pointing to a very flawed statistic that can be debunked by merely looking at the same statistic for other players in the game, like Vince Carter.

    I also think you're putting words in people's mouths. I don't think anyone here has argued that Williams is the panacea, or that he's the difference between this team winning and losing games. Those are very different arguments than someone saying he should get more minutes, because he clearly brings things to the table that nobody else on the roster does.

    If you're just going to take the "In Brad and Danny we trust" argument to the ends of the Earth, then I really don't know why you bother arguing with anyone either, to be honest. One of the main points of a place like this is to question whether or not management and coaching are doing the right thing, and to date, I think it's pretty clear that whatever buttons they've been pushing have been the wrong one. I still believe that Baynes or Theis getting more minutes next to Horford is better than getting our heads beaten in with Brad's constant small ball shit, but I could be wrong. I know tonight, Baynes and Theis saw a lot of action with Horfords absence, and the C's played one of their best games of the year. Is there a correlation? Who knows, but if Al doesn't play tomorrow in Dallas, we'll get another data point. If Danny goes back to his small ball with Horford playing the 5 for most of the game, and they keep losing, that's another data point.

    Just by virtue of the fact they are in the NBA means they have forgotten more about basketball than any of us will ever know, but it certainly doesn't mean they are good at their jobs, or making the right decisions at all times. Sometimes, they're wrong. Otherwise, they'd never get fired, and we know that happens all the time.
     
  28. luckiestman

    luckiestman Son of the Harpy SoSH Member

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    10,865
    Stop this petty argument. We won BIGLY

    We gotta go to that shithole where they killed Kennedy tomorrow so we need all fans to be chill
     
  29. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    16,123
    76ers and Bucks lost to bottom feeders at home.

    hopefully this shit straightens itself out in due time.
     
  30. Light-Tower-Power

    Light-Tower-Power Member SoSH Member

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    7,780
    Didn’t get to watch the game tonight. How much was it the Celtics playing better and how much was it Hawkstown?
     
  31. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    32,544
    31 assists on 42 made baskets is pretty good.

    Hawks do suck though.
     
  32. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,376
    To clarify, I like Williams and think he could be a useful player down the road. I also agree that even smart coaches and front offices make mistakes. It happens all the time.

    I also know that plus minus has its flaws and that it doesn't always accurately reflect a players contribution to a given game. However it does tell what happened while a particular player was in the game - just not why.

    That said, the Cs would have won without Williams tonight. He really did nothing of real note one way or another but he looks good so there is that.

    Finally, there are some posters (not Death IIRC) who have been beating the drum that he should get "15 minutes a night for the big club" as a solution to their recent struggles so I am not putting words in others posts per se.

    Maybe I am completely wrong here (I simply cannot post with certitude what the Cs need to do differently unlike some others on this site) and Williams will handle switches and experienced NBA bigs like a seasoned veteran but it would be unusual for a player at his stage of development to do so - this is likely why the Cs have him playing mostly in the G league. But I fully allow for the possibility that Ed and several others here have a better read on him that the Cs front office does. It wouldn't be the first time that fans saw something coaches missed.
     
    #232 DeJesus Built My Hotrod, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  33. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    5,838
    Baynes played just fine alongside Horford last season. I'm glad Brad went with MaMo at the 4 instead of Gordon to fill in for Horford. Also like Gordon playing with the 2nd unit
     
  34. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    30,678
    I think Williams can help the team in small doses in the right spots. Just because the staff would prefer to play him in Maine for his long-term development doesn’t mean that they don’t think he can contribute at the NBA level. He is also a casualty of a fairly deep roster. When fully healthy, there just aren’t enough minutes between Horford, Baynes, and Theis. That doesn’t mean that he couldn’t help if given the opportunity.

    Would I want him against the Raptors? Probably not. Doubt he is ready for that. But against a team like the Atlanta Shitbirds, sure, why not?
     
  35. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    16,001
    They were 8-12 from 3P in the 1Q, which helped tremendously, although they ended up 13-40.

    On the flip side, ATL ended up 6-35 from 3P land.

    Unscientific sample I know but in last night games (14, if I can count correctly) the team that shot a higher 3P percentage won all nut one game (DET went 7-27 beating HOU who went 10-36).
     
  36. Buster Olney the Lonely

    Buster Olney the Lonely Member SoSH Member

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    3,094
    Last night was loads of fun even if Kyrie and Tatum barely played the second half. Still, seeing Rozier play better and some of the deeper bench players like WIlliams and Wanamaker get some run was welcome relief.

    Here’s a shot of Jaylen completing a dunk in the third.
     

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