Options at Catcher Options

[Corsi Combover]

The Sox will not wait to settle the Varitek issue before deciding on a Plan B. They refuse to even say if signing Varitek is Plan A, and according to baseball sources yesterday, the team is completing due diligence on many other options.

The Texas catching trio of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Taylor Teagarden and Gerald Laird has gathered the most trade ink, but more teams making their catching options known to the Sox.

The Angels are open to dealing either Jeff Mathis or Mike Napoli, and manager and former catcher Mike Scioscia is a Varitek admirer. Other catchers being shopped to the Sox: Brian Schneider (Mets), Miguel Montero (Diamondbacks), John Buck (Royals), Ramon Hernandez (Orioles), Bengie Molina (Giants), Carlos Santana, Kelly Shoppach and even Victor Martinez (Indians), Jesus Flores (Nationals), Kenji Johima and Jeff Clement (Mariners), and Yorvit Torrealba (Rockies).

The Braves, Cardinals and Rays also have made some catchers available. The Dodgers probably will not deal away Russell Martin but are considering a position change for him even though there seems to be no heir apparent.

The Dodgers and Tigers are believed to be two teams that will, if they have not already, express interest in Varitek. The Marlins are in search of a new catcher as well.

So far, the acquisition price for the blue-chip names has been too high for the Sox, as in at least one of the following players: Justin Masterson, Clay Buchholz, and Lars Anderson.

Action on the catching front still is a week or two away from gathering serious momentum.

Source: http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/baseba...position=recent

[Eric Van]

There are two surprises on that list -- Napoli and Flores. They both likely fall into the "test the waters to see if we can get a king's ransom for this guy" category (along with Clement). Neither team would appear to have a good on-hand alternative, so either of them being dealt would not change the market dynamic.

Santana is a nice prospect but almost certainly needs another year, although you could see some bad organization trading for him and rushing him. If that happened, that would make it more of a buyer's market.

I can't imagine anyone wanting Mathis (who hasn't had a less than awful OBP since he was 20 in high-A and AA), Buck or Torrealba as starters, and Schneider and Laird are very borderline.

The only omission, according to online reports, would be Ronny Paulino of the Pirates. It's also interesting that there's no suggestion that the Diamondbacks would keep Montero and trade Snyder.

The Rays would be offering John Jaso (or Sean Riggans), the Cardinals Bryan Anderson (and maybe looking for a king's ransom for Yadier Molina). The Brave referred to would have to be red-hot prospect Tyler Flowers (the only C on the roster other than McCann, Clint Sammons, had a 608 OPS in AAA and 424 in 59 PA in MLB, and they actually seem to be a team in the market for a decent backup). He actually projects to be OK with the bat jumping all the way from high-A, and if some team traded for him and rushed him crazily, it would make it more of a buyer's market a la Santana.

Edit: fixed Flowers and Torrealba as per monty797 and Scoops Bolling below . . . also revised the Mathis remark.

This post has been edited by Eric Van: Nov 29 2008, 01:56 AM

[Robinson Checo]

I can't believe that Cleveland would be willing to part with Carlos Santana. He just had a great year in the minors and it looks like they stole him from the Dodgers organization. Aside from Clement, (who has terrible knees and may be suited for firstbase sooner than later) Santana is a guy who the Sox would have to sell the farm for.

[xjack]

Let's look at the free-agent options (beyond Varitek):

Catchers
Brad Ausmus (40)
Paul Bako (37)
Josh Bard (31)
Michael Barrett (32)
Gary Bennett (37)
Henry Blanco (37)
Johnny Estrada (33)
Sal Fasano (37)
Toby Hall (33)
Paul Lo Duca (37) - Type B
Adam Melhuse (37)
Chad Moeller (34)
Ivan Rodriguez (37) - Type B
David Ross (32)
Javier Valentin (33)
Vance Wilson (36)
Gregg Zaun (38) - Type B

The one name here that intrigues is Bard. Obviously he's not going to be catching Wakefield, but he's always had a reputation as an above-average defensive catcher. He'd come cheap, he gets on base and somewhere in there are the skills that allowed him to put up a 943 OPS in an extreme pitchers' park in 2006.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Josh Bard is a 31 year old with a career line of 265 / 333 / 395. He had a 549 OPS in 200 PA's last year. That's 89 points lower than what the beloved Mirabelli gave the Sox in '07, and 123 lower than Tek last year. Bard had a fantastic year in '06, but it looks like an outlier to me.

While I think that defense is more important than offense at the backstop position, I'd much rather give the job to a combination of Ross, Kottaras, and Brown than go with Bard.

This post has been edited by Rudy Pemberton: Nov 26 2008, 09:27 AM

[satyadaimoku]

I can't believe that Cleveland would be willing to part with Carlos Santana. He just had a great year in the minors and it looks like they stole him from the Dodgers organization. Aside from Clement, (who has terrible knees and may be suited for firstbase sooner than later) Santana is a guy who the Sox would have to sell the farm for.

Eh? I don't see it.

22 years old, single-A, he's only done it one year and from what I've heard, no habla ingles (which doesn't matter at any position other than C). He's a good prospect, but I wouldn't give up Bowden for him, much less sell the farm. If we're going to start giving away big time prospects, I want somebody major league ready.

Let's look at the free-agent options (beyond Varitek):

Catchers
Brad Ausmus (40)
Paul Bako (37)
Josh Bard (31)
Michael Barrett (32)
Gary Bennett (37)
Henry Blanco (37)
Johnny Estrada (33)
Sal Fasano (37)
Toby Hall (33)
Paul Lo Duca (37) - Type B
Adam Melhuse (37)
Chad Moeller (34)
Ivan Rodriguez (37) - Type B
David Ross (32)
Javier Valentin (33)
Vance Wilson (36)
Gregg Zaun (38) - Type B

This post is crying out for a vomiting icon.



Now it has one. This thread is depressing.

[Corsi Combover]

From lurker monty797:

I think I may have found the guy that Eric Van was questioning on the Braves part of the article.

I think the guy being referenced in the Braves section is Tyler Flowers, he's tearing up the winter leagues with a .387/.458/1.000 line, and 10hr's in 60ish ab's.

He also had a pretty solid season in the minors at .288 .428 .494 922 ops. He's young and only in A+ but I thought that maybe this was they guy that the article was talking about. He's a ways away but seems to be on the rise for sure, I guess we'll see what the future holds for him.

[Eric Van]

From lurker monty797:

Yeah, that report may well refer to the possible inclusion of Flowers in deals (I missed him because I only checked farm system down to AA). And he had such a good year in high-A that he projects to be borderline OK offensively as a starting MLB catcher already. But there are few scenarios where rushing him to the show would make sense for the team that acquired him, so his availability is unlikely to change the market dynamic.

[Carroll Hardy]

One interesting name for a backup catcher is: Donny Lucy. He was outrighted to AAA Charlotte by the White Sox, and by taking him off the 40-man, he is now exposed to the Rule 5 draft.

Lucy was selected by the Chicago White Sox in the 2nd round (59th overall) in the 2004 Major League Baseball draft (ahead of Dustin Pedroia, who was 65th ). Donny played on the Stanford teams with Jed Lowrie, Chris Carter, Ryan Garko, Carlos Quentin, Sam Fuld, and Danny Putnam - all of whom have made it at least for a cup of coffee to "The Show".

He was an All-Star at A and AA and was headed towards the same at AAA when he suffered a dislocated kneecap last May. He is a real smart, off-the-charts character and mature beyond his years handler of young pitchers. Before the injury, he also had off-the-charts athleticism for a catcher, with amazing SB/CS skills. He's got some RH pop, but not to the extent he should have shown by now - and like most catchers, too many swings and misses. He also caught Charlie Haeger's knuckler in the minors.

There are not a lot of guys with his upside (and at least some MLB experience) at that position available for the Rule 5 taking. But with A.J. in Chicago, there's not much chance for him to develop.

[dylanmarsh]

The only omission, according to online reports, would be Ronny Paulino of the Pirates.

11/28/08 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Link

And that is why, according to multiple sources, no fewer than of the Pirates' five veterans -- shortstop Jack Wilson, second baseman Freddy Sanchez, first baseman Adam LaRoche, reliever John Grabow and catcher Ronny Paulino -- already have been part of trade talks, to some degree or other.

<snip>

Paulino is different. Catching is a hot commodity, but the handful of teams who have discussed him with the Pirates apparently hope to capitalize on a perceived low-point value, as Paulino was banished to the minors in June. The Pirates are resisting that, given that they have no ruled out Paulino could back up Ryan Doumit next year.

[maufman]

The Pirates are bluffing. I can't believe they'd go to arbitration with Paulino, just so he can back up Doumit. I think we're going to see more nontenders than we've seen since the last time the economy went sour. There won't be another David Ortiz out there, but small-market teams aren't going to pay seven-figure salaries to the Ronny Paulinos of the world.

Back on topic, has anyone read/heard anything about the market for Pudge Rodriguez? I'd much rather have Pudge than Varitek, even assuming Pudge will command a 2-year deal. Not my first choice, but not a bad secondary option if no trade with Texas materializes.

[xjack]

Josh Bard is a 31 year old with a career line of 265 / 333 / 395. He had a 549 OPS in 200 PA's last year.

He was very unlucky last year. His BABIP was .220, and his BA was .202 versus an xBA of .253.

It's obvious the guy needs to get out of SD. Over the past two seasons, his OPS has been 140 points higher on the road.

[Scoops Bolling]

There are three surprises on that list, Napoli, Flores, and Torrealba. They all likely fall into the "test the waters to see if we can get a king's ransom for this guy" category (along with Clement). None of the teams would appear to have a good on-hand alternative, so any of them being dealt would not change the market dynamic.

Why did you lump Torrealba in with Napoli and Flores in the "no on-hand alternative" group? Torrealba isn't even the starter for the Rockies anymore, and given Yorvit's awful offense and remaining contract (3.5 million in 2009, 4 million mutual option in 2010 with a 0.5 million buyout per Cot's) I imagine the Rockies would be more than happy to dump him on another team. I can't see the Sox having much of any interest there (Torrealba's away OPS in his time with Colorado is a dazzling .664) in any event.

To jump on xjack's point about Bard, Bard's line away from Petco was:
.313/.371/.449/.820
I can't imagine he'd be that expensive to sign, and if the better options dried up, he'd be worth an offer.

[Eric Van]

Why did you lump Torrealba in with Napoli and Flores in the "no on-hand alternative" group? Torrealba isn't even the starter for the Rockies anymore, and given Yorvit's awful offense and remaining contract (3.5 million in 2009, 4 million mutual option in 2010 with a 0.5 million buyout per Cot's) I imagine the Rockies would be more than happy to dump him on another team. I can't see the Sox having much of any interest there (Torrealba's away OPS in his time with Colorado is a dazzling .664) in any event.

Total brain cramp -- I read "Torrealba" and thought "Iannetta." Four syllables, both end in "a."

Yeah, Torrealba actually falls in the "no prayer of being anyone's starter" category, along with Buck.

While I'm here, two possibilities that could change the market dynamic:

Houston is reportedly considering David Ross or Paul Bako as the complement to Towles. Ross is actually a guy who projects to be not awful at the plate (+3 runs Bill James, +5 Marcel) but strictly based on what he did in '06. Bako has the worst BJ projection (-26) of any C; his Marcel of -16 isn't much better.

Detroit has reportedly inquired about the Marlins' Matt Treanor as their complement to Dusty Ryan. Why they would want a 33.3 y/o who projects to be -8 (BJ) or -1 (Marcel) is puzzling.

[Crazy Puppy]

Q&A with Gammons:

What young catcher do the Red Sox covet the most (Saltalamacchia, Teagarden, Montero, etc) as their future catcher? Will they be able to land this person? Are they expected to solve the future of catching this year or could they hold it off a couple more years?

I don't think Texas will trade Teagarden, and their asking price for Saltalamacchia has been either Buchholz or Masterson and Bowden; not happening. I know they like Montero, and with the Angels' catching depth, Jeff Mathis is an interesting guy. I keep thinking that if the Sox offer arbitration to Varitek that he will take it, collect $10M and help develop whomever they acquire.

[xjack]

Q&A with Gammons:

That's a pretty good Q&A with Gammons, particularly from a website I'd never heard of. This Gammons comment was equally interesting: "I've wondered if, given Arizona's money crunch, if they took Eric Byrnes' contract, would it be possible to get Montero. Byrnes would be a very good fourth outfielder."

I still have doubts about whether Byrnes would accept being a 4th outfielder as gracefully as Coco did. Nevertheless, if the Sox can work out this kind of trade -- a second-tier prospect plus Kottraras for Montero and Byrnes? -- they should do it. Of course, if Varitek were to accept arbitration, that would mean paying $20 million (or so) to two non-full-time players.

If Gammons is right about Varitek accepting arbitration, that will be a really interesting arb hearing, if it gets that far. I could see the Sox submitting an $8 million arb number (the maximum pay cut allowed) and still having a very good shot at winning.

This post has been edited by xjack: Dec 1 2008, 02:31 PM

[Joshv02]

I could see the Sox submitting an $8 million arb number (the maximum pay cut allowed) and still having a very good shot at winning.

The minimum salary arbitration rules (discussed here earlier today - by the way, I hadn't heard/remembered the story re Becket, which is pretty cool) are not applicable to players who are 6 year free agents. See CBA Art. XX.B.3: "provided, however, that the rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI shall be inapplicable..."

In other words, the Sox can offer $5mm or whatever if they want. But, it is winner-take-all arbitration, so their number would have to be reasonable enough to be accepted.

[dylanmarsh]

That's a pretty good Q&A with Gammons, particularly from a website I'd never heard of. This Gammons comment was equally interesting: "I've wondered if, given Arizona's money crunch, if they took Eric Byrnes' contract, would it be possible to get Montero. Byrnes would be a very good fourth outfielder."

I still have doubts about whether Byrnes would accept being a 4th outfielder as gracefully as Coco did. Nevertheless, if the Sox can work out this kind of trade -- a second-tier prospect plus Kottraras for Montero and Byrnes? -- they should do it. Of course, if Varitek were to accept arbitration, that would mean paying $20 million (or so) to two non-full-time players.

It is pretty interesting Gammons mentioned this potential deal, since Corsi and others have been discussing in another thread just such a scenario. Of course, we've been kicking around the idea of Lugo's contract plus others for Montero and Byrnes. I'd be surprised if the Sox take on $22M for a project catcher and a 4th outfielder without getting rid of Lugo in the deal.

[OCD SS]

To cross one of the options off the list, Tyler Flowers (Atl) was sent to the ChiSox as part of the deal to acquire Javier Vazquez.

[dylanmarsh]

Link

Next week could be extremely dangerous for the Rangers' front office. Hole them up at The Bellagio for four days with nobody to talk to, and it could end up being an ugly sight at the craps table.

I can just see Jon Daniels right now, blowing on the dice, yelling: "C'mon eight, baby needs a new pair of shoes!"

While we expect Daniels and his staff to work the floor of the winter meetings with extreme vigor, we also think the team's relative lack of available funds to spend on free agents and the plan to basically hold on to talent is going to make for a rather uneventful week.

That's why we are here. We have some suggestions to keep Daniels away from the dice. Here are five guys worth talking to:

1. Theo Epstein, GM Boston: There is the foundation for a deal of a Rangers catcher for a Red Sox pitcher. The Rangers need more young pitching talent, and the Red Sox need a catcher of the future. Both clubs have depth at the other's need. That's the most significant hurdle toward getting a deal done.

The rest is just negotiation. The Red Sox don't want to give up Clay Buchholz, supposedly under any circumstances. The Rangers want Buchholz. I believe if both clubs continue talking, there is a way to reach a fair compromise that helps both teams improve.

I didn't see this posted anywhere - to shame Corsi-bot.