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Feb 1 2006, 01:02 PM
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![]() Posts: 1,682 From: San Diego, CA |
David Pinto recently posted his Probabilistic Model of Range figures for 2005 Left Fielders, and lo and behold, Manny is not only not rated as far and away the worst left fielder, but he's not even at the bottom of the list. Guys like Pat Burrell, Miguel Cabrera, David Delucci, and Ricky Ledee rated even worse. According to Pinto's two models, Manny cost the Sox somewhere between 12 and 15 outs last year. Now the conversion of outs to runs is not up yet over at the Chronicle of the Lads site, but I expect it will show Manny at about -7 runs. The startling thing about this is that it is vastly different than what UZR showed (I believe MGL reported it to be -47 runs).
Now consider that Manny led all major league outfielders with 17 assists last year. According to my calculations (using the rate of assists per inning played for all LFers), Manny's expected number of assists would be 8. That's 9 additional outs that Manny was responsible for. And given that many of those outs occurred at the plate or at third, it's likely that they very nearly offset the -7 run differential for range. So based on his overall play, Manny may well have been an average left fielder last year. Amazing... |
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BosoxBob Manny Ramirez: Average Left Fielder? Feb 1 2006, 01:02 PM
URISoxFan I just posted this over there, so I'm kinda do... Feb 1 2006, 01:11 PM
Paul M My opinion is Manny's helped by Fenway and hur... Feb 1 2006, 01:19 PM
PedroKsBambino I find that -47 number to fail the straight-face t... Feb 1 2006, 01:20 PM
satyadaimoku QUOTE (PedroKsBambino @ Feb 1 2006, 01:20 PM)... Feb 1 2006, 01:29 PM
templeUsox To me, this says Manny is a below average fielder.... Feb 1 2006, 01:21 PM
Todd Benzinger QUOTE (templeUsox @ Feb 1 2006, 12:21 PM)To m... Feb 1 2006, 02:24 PM
TheoShmeo I know that this may be considered heresy by some,... Feb 1 2006, 01:25 PM
Todd Benzinger I mentioned this in another thread, but don't ... Feb 1 2006, 01:31 PM
finnVT QUOTE (Todd Benzinger @ Feb 1 2006, 01:31 PM)... Feb 1 2006, 01:48 PM

Spacemans Bong QUOTE (finnVT @ Feb 1 2006, 11:48 AM)I think ... Feb 2 2006, 12:42 AM
BosoxBob QUOTE (Todd Benzinger @ Feb 1 2006, 10:31 AM)... Feb 1 2006, 02:22 PM
finnVT Also interesting from these numbers are two recent... Feb 1 2006, 01:43 PM
Rough Carrigan Just one fan's perception, but Manny always se... Feb 1 2006, 02:17 PM
hytem A couple of points re Manny as an outfielder:
1) ... Feb 1 2006, 02:25 PM
Smiling Joe Hesketh QUOTE (hytem @ Feb 1 2006, 02:25 PM)A couple ... Feb 1 2006, 02:34 PM
hytem QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Feb 1 2006, 03:3... Feb 1 2006, 08:05 PM
hytem QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Feb 1 2006, 03:3... Feb 1 2006, 08:52 PM
BTownBeckett Has anyone tried to create a defensive metric numb... Feb 1 2006, 03:47 PM
behindthepen QUOTE (BTownBeckett @ Feb 1 2006, 03:47 PM)Ha... Feb 1 2006, 04:00 PM
Bradyblack QUOTE (BosoxBob @ Feb 1 2006, 06:02 PM)Now co... Feb 1 2006, 04:11 PM
AZBlue I have always believed that David Ortiz should be ... Feb 1 2006, 04:26 PM
Smiling Joe Hesketh QUOTE (AZBlue @ Feb 1 2006, 04:26 PM)I have a... Feb 1 2006, 04:30 PM

smastroyin QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Feb 1 2006, 04:3... Feb 1 2006, 04:38 PM
smastroyin QUOTE (AZBlue @ Feb 1 2006, 04:26 PM)For thos... Feb 1 2006, 04:36 PM
Buck Showalter I think Gammons said it best: "he's a ... Feb 1 2006, 04:30 PM
Pumpsie QUOTE (Buck Showalter @ Feb 1 2006, 04:30 PM)... Feb 1 2006, 08:12 PM

hytem QUOTE (Pumpsie @ Feb 1 2006, 09:12 PM)Gammons... Feb 1 2006, 09:11 PM
Devizier Why is such a big deal being made out of the fact ... Feb 1 2006, 09:06 PM
Jim Gosger I don't know much about these defensive metric... Feb 1 2006, 04:31 PM
epraz QUOTE (Jim Gosger @ Feb 1 2006, 05:31 PM)I do... Feb 1 2006, 05:36 PM

Kevin Mortons Ghost So if two different sets of defensive metrics, eac... Feb 1 2006, 07:06 PM

WarningTrackPower QUOTE (Kevin Mortons Ghost @ Feb 1 2006, 07:0... Feb 1 2006, 09:39 PM
OttoC QUOTE (Jim Gosger @ Feb 1 2006, 04:31 PM)I do... Feb 1 2006, 07:48 PM
YAZ QUOTE (Jim Gosger @ Feb 1 2006, 04:31 PM)I do... Feb 1 2006, 08:02 PM
Pandemonium67 QUOTE I have always believed that David Ortiz shou... Feb 1 2006, 05:23 PM
biollante Thank you for posting this:
"So if two diffe... Feb 1 2006, 07:28 PM
Randy Kutchers Mullet Fris and I had a pretty in-depth conversation abou... Feb 1 2006, 07:51 PM
Div School Sox Fan Dick Allen had a season in the minor leagues where... Feb 1 2006, 10:25 PM
OttoC QUOTE (Div School Sox Fan @ Feb 1 2006, 10:25... Feb 1 2006, 11:01 PM
Worst Trade Evah QUOTE (OttoC @ Feb 1 2006, 11:01 PM)To the bs... Feb 2 2006, 12:35 PM
philly sox fan BIS is going to publish a book called The Fielding... Feb 1 2006, 10:49 PM
nhfred QUOTE (philly sox fan @ Feb 1 2006, 10:49 PM)... Feb 2 2006, 12:18 AM
Devizier QUOTE (nhfred @ Feb 2 2006, 05:18 AM)This det... Feb 2 2006, 05:42 AM
templeUsox Is there anything to be said for invisible range? ... Feb 1 2006, 10:55 PM
philly sox fan QUOTE (templeUsox @ Feb 1 2006, 10:55 PM)Is t... Feb 1 2006, 11:13 PM
bowiac QUOTE (philly sox fan @ Feb 1 2006, 11:13 PM)... Feb 2 2006, 12:17 AM
philly sox fan QUOTE (bowiac @ Feb 2 2006, 12:17 AM)Starting... Feb 2 2006, 08:11 AM
carygug This may have already been posted here, but I thou... Feb 2 2006, 01:51 AM
bowiac QUOTE (carygug @ Feb 2 2006, 01:51 AM)And it ... Feb 2 2006, 02:42 AM
OttoC QUOTE (carygug @ Feb 2 2006, 01:51 AM)[...]
A... Feb 2 2006, 08:20 AM
Eric Van QUOTE (carygug @ Feb 2 2006, 01:51 AM)And it ... Feb 2 2006, 03:50 PM
Frisbetarian I'm late to the discussion, but would like to ... Feb 3 2006, 06:10 PM
Pandemonium67 I suppose this is simplistic, but couldn't Fen... Feb 2 2006, 03:42 AM
philly sox fan QUOTE (Pandemonium67 @ Feb 2 2006, 03:42 AM)I... Feb 2 2006, 08:08 AM
smastroyin QUOTE (philly sox fan @ Feb 2 2006, 08:08 AM)... Feb 2 2006, 08:51 AM
CaptainLaddie If I have one major weakness when it comes to look... Feb 2 2006, 04:32 AM
Pumpsie No left fielder in Boston is going to ever have a ... Feb 2 2006, 07:18 AM
Smiling Joe Hesketh QUOTE (Pumpsie @ Feb 2 2006, 07:18 AM)No left... Feb 2 2006, 02:04 PM
BosoxBob QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Feb 2 2006, 11:0... Feb 2 2006, 02:27 PM
Pumpsie QUOTE (BosoxBob @ Feb 2 2006, 02:27 PM)I... Feb 2 2006, 03:05 PM
OttoC Retrosheet data has an accompanying for hit locati... Feb 2 2006, 11:04 AM
BosoxBob Well, color me confused. In my original post here,... Feb 2 2006, 01:52 PM
OttoC QUOTE (BosoxBob @ Feb 2 2006, 01:52 PM)On to ... Feb 2 2006, 04:48 PM
Pandemonium67 QUOTE This is part of the problem with evaluating ... Feb 2 2006, 02:28 PM
Rudy Pemberton I don't think you can compare data for even O... Feb 2 2006, 02:33 PM
BosoxBob In a parallel discussion over at the Baseball Thin... Feb 2 2006, 02:45 PM
PedroKsBambino This is going to sound nit-picky but I am not sure... Feb 2 2006, 02:45 PM
smastroyin QUOTE (PedroKsBambino @ Feb 2 2006, 02:45 PM)... Feb 2 2006, 02:59 PM
PedroKsBambino Oh, I agree there's real questions about the m... Feb 2 2006, 03:13 PM
smastroyin QUOTE (PedroKsBambino @ Feb 2 2006, 03:13 PM)... Feb 2 2006, 03:32 PM
Devizier Since I lack the degree of interest and time requi... Feb 3 2006, 04:10 AM
Pumpsie You would think that the people deciding how hard ... Feb 2 2006, 03:14 PM
Charley Weir QUOTE On the road, it's a different story. The... Feb 3 2006, 01:36 PM
BosoxBob For those who are interested in reading more about... Feb 3 2006, 05:10 PM
Eric Van QUOTE (BosoxBob @ Feb 3 2006, 05:10 PM)For th... Feb 3 2006, 05:27 PM
philly sox fan QUOTE (Eric Van @ Feb 3 2006, 05:27 PM)The SI... Feb 3 2006, 05:30 PM
DSG QUOTE (Eric Van @ Feb 3 2006, 06:27 PM)The SI... Feb 3 2006, 06:54 PM
BosoxBob QUOTE (DSG @ Feb 3 2006, 03:54 PM)BTW, Manny... Feb 3 2006, 07:25 PM
Randy Kutchers Mullet I read the two Gassko articles today, and while in... Feb 4 2006, 12:24 AM
bowiac QUOTE This isn't like OPS, where it's a mu... Feb 4 2006, 01:43 AM
Frisbetarian Thinking over my previous post last night, it occu... Feb 4 2006, 07:06 AM
philly sox fan QUOTE (bowiac @ Feb 4 2006, 01:43 AM)First of... Feb 4 2006, 09:25 AM
bowiac QUOTE (philly sox fan @ Feb 4 2006, 09:25 AM)... Feb 4 2006, 10:10 AM
Pumpsie QUOTE Back to the subject for a moment, Manny was ... Feb 4 2006, 10:32 AM
PedroKsBambino FWIW, the current thread on DSG's comparison a... Feb 4 2006, 11:14 AM
DSG A lot of good questions are being brought up here.... Feb 4 2006, 03:15 PM
Eric Van QUOTE (DSG @ Feb 4 2006, 03:15 PM)The year-to... Feb 4 2006, 07:15 PM
Vermonter At Large I've looked at different fielding systems - wh... Feb 6 2006, 06:34 PM
bowiac QUOTE (Vermonter At Large @ Feb 6 2006, 06:34... Feb 6 2006, 09:54 PM
Vermonter At Large QUOTE (bowiac @ Feb 6 2006, 10:54 PM)It's... Feb 6 2006, 10:38 PM
Devizier QUOTE (bowiac @ Feb 7 2006, 02:54 AM)3. In ge... Feb 7 2006, 04:04 AM
bowiac QUOTE (Devizier @ Feb 7 2006, 04:04 AM)Maybe ... Feb 7 2006, 04:10 AM
Devizier QUOTE (bowiac @ Feb 7 2006, 09:10 AM)A scout... Feb 7 2006, 04:26 AM
Vermonter At Large QUOTE (bowiac @ Feb 7 2006, 05:10 AM)Here... Feb 7 2006, 07:29 AM
Corsi Combover QUOTE (carygug @ Feb 2 2006, 01:51 AM)Would t... Feb 4 2006, 05:00 PM
templeUsox See MO Feb 4 2006, 05:17 PM
OttoC QUOTE (Corsi Combover @ Feb 4 2006, 05:00 PM)... Feb 4 2006, 06:47 PM
BosoxBob You can see immediate problems with Tango's ... Feb 6 2006, 11:15 PM
Worst Trade Evah I have to agree with bowiac here: I never really u... Feb 7 2006, 07:46 AM![]() ![]() |
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