2007-08 alpine skiing Options

[Rick Burlesons Y...]

While out for my run I had a few more thoughts on teaching kids. First, like Yammer said, make it fun. Making everything a game really helps with little ones. Using the french fries /pizza commands in a game of red light - green light works well with new skiers. When they start to turn, set up poles (the only good use for them at this stage) as well spaced race gates with a toy or stuffed animal or parent at the bottom of the course to force them to stop. When a child is ready to lose the wedge, I have found that the following game I call "Shoot the aliens" works almost without fail. Have the skier (this works for grown-ups too) put their hands in front of their faces about a foot or so apart with their thumbs pointing toward each other and their fingers together and pointing up in the air - it should give the appearance of a TV screen. Pinpoint something at the bottom of the trail, a race shack works well, and tell the kids there are aliens in there getting ready to attack the world and take away all the chocolate. Their TV screen is their weapon and they have to keep the target in view (on the TV screen) all the way down the hill as they make their turns in order to shoot the aliens (with water for the PC crowd). Playing this game forces the skier ready to lose the wedge to both keep their hands in front of their body, and to keep their torso pointing down the hill. A parallel turn comes very naturally when this game is played.

One other tip, just teach one thing at a time. Too many times I've seen a parent telling their child to keep their hands in front, bend their knees, look down the hill, etc etc. Too much info just confuses the kids - keep it simple and let them have fun. The whole point is to have them enjoy skiing for a lifetime.

Man, another great piece of advice. Thanks Fris.

And yeah, parents as a rule of thumb waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy overcoach their kids on the ski slope. This also leads to them getting fed up after an hour and putting the kid between their legs, etc., etc.

One of my favorite times with my son was when we were skiing through a glade at Beaver Creek and he fell into a 2 foot snow hollow. He yelled at me "why didn't you tell me not to go there????" and I laughed at him and said "You keep telling me to stop telling you how to ski!!" We laughed and then I pelted him with snowballs. Yeah, it's a lot of therapy for him but he's off my payroll by then.

[jschip1]

Thanks for all the great tips. I've seen lots of parents teaching their kids to ski, as well, and though I never paid attention to exactly how they were doing it, the one thing I took away was to not over-teach. The last thing I want is to get frustrated and then ruin it for him. Easier said than done, I suppose.

[WalletTrack]

Thanks for all the great tips. I've seen lots of parents teaching their kids to ski, as well, and though I never paid attention to exactly how they were doing it, the one thing I took away was to not over-teach. The last thing I want is to get frustrated and then ruin it for him. Easier said than done, I suppose.

Think about ski wee class. That way you're the fun guy they try/show the stuff they learned.
Also my guys skied two years from age 4-6 then one afernoon saw "Shreddy MacTwist" go by. They have not skied since.
A future Picabo and Franz were lost that day.
Anyway, never had a problem on the slopes...the meltdown always happened in the lodge. Have a pre-position shiny object and some fluids at the ready when returning for the day.

[AnkleStigmata]

"Squish the bug with your big toe" is fantastic. I will have to try this.

I told my kids about it too.



We started both our boys with one private lesson each, then put them in ski wee type deals -- a lesson a week for six weeks -- a couple years running. I watched some of the lessons, reinforced them and moved on from there pretty much by intuition. I mainly harp on making good turns and figure the rest will pretty much take care of itself.

Anyway, tonight I pulled the winter clothes down from the attic, bought new helmets for the boys' ever-growing squashes, packed the car and loaded the skis on the rack. Tomorrow, for the first time in my life, I will ski on my birthday. Sunday River here we come.

This post has been edited by AnkleStigmata: Nov 10 2007, 10:56 PM

[Rick Burlesons Y...]

This will be my first year using a helmet after 32 years of skiing without one. Does anyone have any good recommendations? I would rather hear from holdouts like myself who got bullied into it by their shrew wife and found it to be OK, but, you know, whatever.

[Frisbetarian]

This will be my first year using a helmet after 32 years of skiing without one. Does anyone have any good recommendations? I would rather hear from holdouts like myself who got bullied into it by their shrew wife and found it to be OK, but, you know, whatever.

I love my helmet. It's warm enough for the coldest day (I never need a hat), and it has ventilation holes that can be opened on a warm day to keep me cool. My helmet has speakers in the ear flaps so I can plug in an MP3 and listen to tunes on a day when the slopes are empty (midweek). They make wireless audio helmets now, as well. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of people listening to music while skiing/sliding, but with these helmets the speakers are in the earflaps and, unlike earbuds which go in your ears, you can actually hear surrounding noises with the helmet audio system. And listening to tunes on the mountain is awesome.

Most of all, of course, I love my helmet because it has saved my Latin ass on more than one occasion. Please forgive the anecdote, but it illustrates my fervor for my brain bucket. Two seasons ago I was asked to do a ski test on the following season's equipment with a group of skiers ranging from freestyle team guys (dudes?), to racers, bump guys, PSIA 3 guys, etc., all good skiers, no clue why I was there, maybe I reminded them of their fathers. It was a beautiful day with hero type conditions and on an early run with testosterone running high we all took off down a narrow, twisting trail with our new skis. It was very competitive, with everyone in the group (probably about 15) jockeying for position and trying to get in front. I was on a pair of GS race skis and saw a chance to get in front on the far side of the trail near the trees, so I went for it. As I launched off a knoll the big dude I was looking to pass veered right in front of me - so I laid down. I would guess I was going a good 40 MPH at this point and I went into a slide on my right hip (an aside here, if you ever feel like you may fall backwards do NOT attempt to correct the situation and stay up - this is how a majority of ACL tears occur - just let yourself fall and go into a baseball type slide keeping your skis off the snow unless you really need to arrest the slide). I had a serious yardsale and wound up 100 or so yards down, and partially off, the trail. After they saw I was OK, everyone had a great time busting my nads, especially my son. I dusted myself off and finished the run, and on the ensuing Gondola ride one of the guys noticed a huge dent in my helmet. It had to be a good 2 inches around and 1/4 inch in. I felt nothing in the fall and skied the whole day - one of the best ski days of my life as it turned out - but had I not been wearing that helmet my day, and possibly more, certainly would have ended on that early run.

Get a helmet.

If I were to buy a new helmet I would probably get a Giro Fuse Wireless Tune-up Link. Be aware that you will need new goggles or an attachment for your current goggles in order to have them fit properly to your helmet and avoid the cold and uncomfortable Joey Gap.

Good luck.

[Rick Burlesons Y...]

I love my helmet. It's warm enough for the coldest day (I never need a hat), and it has ventilation holes that can be opened on a warm day to keep me cool. My helmet has speakers in the ear flaps so I can plug in an MP3 and listen to tunes on a day when the slopes are empty (midweek). They make wireless audio helmets now, as well. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of people listening to music while skiing/sliding, but with these helmets the speakers are in the earflaps and, unlike earbuds which go in your ears, you can actually hear surrounding noises with the helmet audio system. And listening to tunes on the mountain is awesome.

Most of all, of course, I love my helmet because it has saved my Latin ass on more than one occasion. Please forgive the anecdote, but it illustrates my fervor for my brain bucket. Two seasons ago I was asked to do a ski test on the following season's equipment with a group of skiers ranging from freestyle team guys (dudes?), to racers, bump guys, PSIA 3 guys, etc., all good skiers, no clue why I was there, maybe I reminded them of their fathers. It was a beautiful day with hero type conditions and on an early run with testosterone running high we all took off down a narrow, twisting trail with our new skis. It was very competitive, with everyone in the group (probably about 15) jockeying for position and trying to get in front. I was on a pair of GS race skis and saw a chance to get in front on the far side of the trail near the trees, so I went for it. As I launched off a knoll the big dude I was looking to pass veered right in front of me - so I laid down. I would guess I was going a good 40 MPH at this point and I went into a slide on my right hip (an aside here, if you ever feel like you may fall backwards do NOT attempt to correct the situation and stay up - this is how a majority of ACL tears occur - just let yourself fall and go into a baseball type slide keeping your skis off the snow unless you really need to arrest the slide). I had a serious yardsale and wound up 100 or so yards down, and partially off, the trail. After they saw I was OK, everyone had a great time busting my nads, especially my son. I dusted myself off and finished the run, and on the ensuing Gondola ride one of the guys noticed a huge dent in my helmet. It had to be a good 2 inches around and 1/4 inch in. I felt nothing in the fall and skied the whole day - one of the best ski days of my life as it turned out - but had I not been wearing that helmet my day, and possibly more, certainly would have ended on that early run.

Get a helmet.

If I were to buy a new helmet I would probably get a Giro Fuse Wireless Tune-up Link. Be aware that you will need new goggles or an attachment for your current goggles in order to have them fit properly to your helmet and avoid the cold and uncomfortable Joey Gap.

Good luck.

All that and no mention of, you know, the make and model of the helmet?

Thanks tacoface.

[Slow Rheal]

Here's the basic scoop on ski helmets - they are virtually identical as far as impact ratings go. There is one company that produces helmets that sets itself above and beyond every other company though, and that is Sweet Protection.

Every helmet is rated to an impact speed of somewhere between 10 and 15 mph, this is obviously an easily attainable speed for imapct. This is not to say that one of these will helmets will not save your dome if you do have a higher speed of impact, like Fris said, but they're not rated for it. Additionally, they're all rated as single-impact only. Once you hit your head, your helmet should be replaced, period.

What Sweet Protection does to seperate themselves from the competition is to produce helemts that are capable of mulit-impact and higher speed impact ratings. They are a company from Norway which has been producing Kayaking helmets for a long time, and they have delved into the snow market for thelast three years now. It is worth reading up on some of the technology that they implement, check it out HERE.

I own a ski shop out in Colorado and we carry a number of different helmet companies including Smith, Bern, K2 and Sweet. The first three range in price from $70-$100, and Sweets start at $200 and go to $350 - expensive, but a small price to pay for your head still. We sell through on Sweet Protection as quickly as we do on all other brands, if not quicker.

Like Smith, Bern and K2 there are a ton of other great price-point helmet companies out there inlcuding Giro, Boeri, Briko etc...

Bottom line, get one for yourself and absolutely get one for the little grommet too

[Frisbetarian]

All that and no mention of, you know, the make and model of the helmet?

Thanks tacoface.

Heh, sorry. My helmet is a Giro G9 with tune-ups (audio system). If I were to buy a new one, however, I'd get a Giro Fuse (wireless) mainly because the vents are much easier to use on that model.

[Bongorific]

I noticed some in this thread are starting their young children skiing, and this is a great idea. I started when I was 3 and it is by far the sport I have the most talent in. It's like learning to ride a bike - when a young kid grows up learning how to balance on his or her skis, he or she won't forget. I started teaching lessons when I was in 8th grade at a small local hill and by 12th grade I was second-in-charge of the ski-wee program (3-8). I don't teach as regularly as I used to, but I'm still a Level II Certified PSIA and have taught people of all ages. If anyone ever needs tips for their children, or themselves, I'd be happy to help.

This will be my first year using a helmet after 32 years of skiing without one. Does anyone have any good recommendations? I would rather hear from holdouts like myself who got bullied into it by their shrew wife and found it to be OK, but, you know, whatever.

In 2001 I got a Boeri helmet. I had never worn one in my previous 15 years of skiing, but I decided to order one off a pro form because it was pretty cheap. The following week we had our high school ski club trip to Jay Peak. One of my friends fell in the trees and in trying to avoid him I spun 180 degrees, fell backwards, and the back of my head hit a tree laying on the ground. I was dazed at first but shook it off within a couple minutes. Without the helmet, things would have been a lot worse. I really cannot recommend them enough, even if you think you can handle the terrain you are skiing. You never know when an avoidable obstacle might pop up.

Try on different brands and just see what fits your head. Also make sure you can hear because some models don't have ample ear holes and you won't be able to carry on a conversation while riding the lift. They do keep your head very warm which is great. On cold days, I also wear a thin fleece balaclava under the helmet, and just pull the part that would cover the face under my chin. Doesn't get any warmer than that. Keep your eye on Backcountry Outlet or other online sites for good deals.

[Frisbetarian]

Additionally, they're all rated as single-impact only. Once you hit your head, your helmet should be replaced, period.

Maybe I'll be getting a new bucket this season, after all. Do the Sweets come with audio?

And SR, good to see you checking in. Did you ever open up that Cat skiing area?

[AnkleStigmata]

I've worn a helmet for the last four or five years and now it's like wearing a seat belt in a car, only even less noticeable. With a thin balaclava for the really cold days, I'm as warm as a I need to be, and I have protection for what little is left upstairs. I wouldn't think of skiing without one now.

Anyway, I offer a trip report:

2007-08 day 1: Sunday River, Maine, Nov. 11

This was far from a typical ski trip for me. I'm not a total snow snob but I do watch weather closely and try to pick my days -- I'm not going to drive 2-3 hours if I know I'll be skiing boilerplate all day, at least if I'm skiing by myself or with my kids. I'm also typically intent on being among the first up the mountain when the lifts start spinning in the morning, but my wife doesn't really downhill ski and I wanted yesterday to be a family day as much as possible. So my plan was for the four of us to do some hiking in the morning and the boys and I to ski a few runs in the afternoon. I knew lift tickets would be only $20 each for the three of us for the half day so I wasn't concerned about cramming in as many runs as possible -- just wanted get some earlier-than-ever turns in.

So after a hearty breakfast at the Whittier House in Ossipee NH we began our outdoor activities by hiking approximately 1/40,000th of the Appalachian Trail ... across from the AMC Pinkham Notch camp we went about 0.05 miles on the Trail before heading up the Square Ledge trail. Some icy spots but beautiful views of snow-covered Mount Washington and Tuckerman and Huntington ravines.

Then we drove to Sunday River. I was shocked at how far down the Barker Mountain access road cars were parked, though at this point it was almost 1 p.m. and some folks were leaving so we got a spot close to the lodge. At the entrance to the lodge we passed a group of snowboarders including one guy in agony, cradling what I suspect was a broken arm wrapped in a sling. Tough way to start the season, dude ...

My sons saw the bottom pitch of Cascades, which looked fairly steep, bumpy and icy, and asked me if that was the only way down ... It was, and I did have some second thoughts but figured we were here and what was the worst that could happen?

By the time we were all geared up it was nearly 2 p.m. My goal had been to ski in the sun as much as possible as I'd read a S/R trip report Saturday night about hard pack and sketchy conditions in the shade; so much for that. The good thing was we missed the maximum crowds.

I will say S/R has made an impressive amount of snow. They had five trails open yesterday and were blowing snow all day long on others. Apparently they're shooting for at least 10 trails by next weekend. (Edit: "Five" including a connector; for all intents and purposes there were 1.5 ways down from the top of Locke Mountain to bottom.)

We took the Barker Mountain quad and made our first turns on a thin hardpack connector to Upper Sunday Punch. Here is where my boys (10 and 7) completely freaked out. This is an intermediate trail (only alternative was a black diamond) but the first thing they saw was a fairly steep pitch punctuated by big bumps, with various skiers and snowboarders flying by from time to time. Both boys basically froze. I'd been through these situations before and, for someone who generally isn't the most patient fellow, I can be downright zenlike when I need to be on the slopes. It'll be fine, you just need to make one turn at a time, I kept telling them calmly -- oh yeah, and squish the bug with your big toe. Finallly after maybe four or five minutes of this my younger son made one turn, then another, then another ... and his older brother followed him ... and before we knew it all was well with the world. Lots of big bumps almost everywhere (only the top part of Upper Sunday Punch and the T2 black diamond had been groomed) and plenty of hard pack between the bumps but the bumps themselves were soft and the boys did fine once they got a groove going. (So did I ...) Also with subfreezing temps and low humidity the snow had a reasonably natural feel, not terribly sticky the way machine-made can be sometimes.

The boys really got into the "squish the bug with your big toe" idea. Thanks a lot Fris.

We only wound up doing a few runs, including one from the top of Locke Mountain, but that was all we needed. The boys skied by far the toughest conditions they've faced yet and went from being frozen with fear (and me thinking I might have made a bad choice) to having a blast and eager to go for more. I didn't get quite to the thighs-on-fire stage myself but it was good to make turns in bumps again and my legs do feel it this morning.

I didn't take a lot of photos but will try to post a couple later.

ON!

This post has been edited by AnkleStigmata: Nov 12 2007, 10:10 AM

[Rudi Fingers]

This will be my first year using a helmet after 32 years of skiing without one. Does anyone have any good recommendations? I would rather hear from holdouts like myself who got bullied into it by their shrew wife and found it to be OK, but, you know, whatever.

I have had one of these for the past three years:



- the Leedom Scream Cut. (Leedom site). Safest helmet around. Snell certified, unlike most helmets very warm, full ear coverage, and has a vent tab that opens up some air holes on warm spring days. The only negative is that the helmet is heavier than some other brands, but it doesn't bother me.

(ps on the Snell certification - Leedom dropped the cert this year to save money, and because none of their other models or competitors are certified. Per the Leedom site: "When people think Leedom they think Snell certified, bomber hard-shells that were the foundation of the company. They were cool in the 90’s, and we still have lots of folks that were cool in the 90’s wearing ‘em, and asking for ‘em… but we’re moving on." They still sell this helmet though, just without the cert sticker)


I am also a very strong skier who has spent a lot of time over the past few years teaching kids how to ski. Fris' tips are top notch. I started wearing a helmet because I was teaching kids wearing helmets - it only made sense for me to wear one too. Turns out they are really warm and comfortable - no more cold earlobes. Why didn't I start sooner! Added bonus: I am much more comfortable in the glades with a helmet on.

This post has been edited by Rudi Fingers: Nov 12 2007, 10:43 AM

[Frisbetarian]

Anyway, I offer a trip report:

2007-08 day 1: Sunday River, Maine, Nov. 11

Sounds like a pretty nice b'day, AS. I've had some brutal first days over the years (the year after my son tore his ACL it took us 90 frightened minutes to complete one run), but yours sounds like it worked out very well. Congrats, and thanks for the report.

Don't forget the ski show later this week at the Bayside Expo. There is no charge for kids, and there is always a staggering amount of free stuff they can amass there - posters, stuffed animals, tote bags. autographs, etc. You'll get to see a lot of old faces, and to try to find deals on ski passes and equipment. Junior got a Giro Fuse Audio helmet (wired) for $89 there a few years ago.

[Maalox]

7) Don't take him to Aspen, Steamboat, Whistler or Zermatt. Take him to your local hill and let him have fun 4-5 times this year. I am staggered by the number of people who live near me who claim to "love" skiing but will say "I don't want my kid to learn in the Poconos." I know a bunch of great skiiers who learned by walking up and skiing down a 50 yard hill in their backyard, but they did it a lot.

That's how I started. It wasn't even a 50-yard hill. It was about 30 feet. (Granted, I was four so 30 feet was big.) Then it was the Dover and Gonic, NH town hills. There used to be dirt-cheap or free town hills all over New Hampshire. Most of them are gone now I think.

Jesus, I can't remember the last time I went skiing. It was years ago. Put it this way: my new skis are 18 years old - and they're 210s. If I went out on them now I'd surely kill myself. Does anyone even ski on 210s anymore? My short skis are at least 20 years old.

Skis don't even look like mine anymore. They all look like ping-pong paddles now, compared to my stuff. What does a whole rig cost nowadays? $1,000? $2,000?

I was a huge ski bum when I was young. Now I just have a huge bum. I'm not sure anyone needs to see it out on the slopes just yet.

A helmet on a public slope? Hmmm. I wore one racing, and I approve of helmets in principle. But my gut tells me that if you're skiing recreationally on a public run in a manner that requires a helmet, you're not skiing safely to begin with.

[AnkleStigmata]

Fris, I did omit the part about how my younger son fell off a lift -- trying to get on at the Barker Mtn midstation, where apparently they only load skiers at the start of the season and the liftie didn't seem to have a lot of experience doing so -- but, no harm no foul ...

One random observation: I mentioned we'd gone hiking in the morning. In some spots the trail was fairly steep, with big rocks to scamper over and ice to avoid. When we were skiing later in the day my older son noted that picking out a line to ski through the bumps was much like finding the best way down the tough parts of that trail. I can't say he's a real natural on skis yet but I thought that was a pretty good insight to come up with on his own.

Meanwhile, hey Yammer, according to the alpinezone.com site that Dropkick Izzy linked to, Big Boulder (Poconos) opened this weekend. Now that I count it up, I too have been on skis 33 years and I started at places in your neck of the woods -- frst time was at Vernon Valley, though I was a bit too young at the time to take in the Playboy Club at Great Gorge ... Did a lot of night skiing in the late '70s at Hidden Valley, a few miles from VV/GG, back when it was a semi-private club and I knew a member. I was back there one night about 10 years ago and it still was a good little place.

[AnkleStigmata]

Jesus, I can't remember the last time I went skiing. It was years ago. Put it this way: my new skis are 18 years old - and they're 210s. If I went out on them now I'd surely kill myself. Does anyone even ski on 210s anymore? My short skis are at least 20 years old.

Skis don't even look like mine anymore. They all look like ping-pong paddles now, compared to my stuff. What does a whole rig cost nowadays? $1,000? $2,000?

Three or four years ago, after not skiing much for a while for various logistical reasons, I upgraded from my mid-'80s straight 205s to shaped 185s with boots and bindings (all reasonably high-end but not ridiculous) for $550 in an end-of-season sale. That was probably a 30-40% markdown. The shaped skis really make a big difference, much easier to turn. Right now there are some good sales on '06-07 models and even better prices on year-old demos.

A helmet on a public slope? Hmmm. I wore one racing, and I approve of helmets in principle. But my gut tells me that if you're skiing recreationally on a public run in a manner that requires a helmet, you're not skiing safely to begin with.

Though I'm not good enough yet for serious glades, I do like to ski the edges of slopes, which usually have the best snow. I never ski out of control or all that fast really but one caught edge and I can hit a tree, is how I look at it. Also, as my father used to say in the context of driving a car, "I don't care how good you are, ya gotta watch out for the other asshole."

[Maalox]

Was surfing around and found this site. It's pretty cool.

New England Lost Ski Areas Project

[Rudi Fingers]

Was surfing around and found this site. It's pretty cool.

New England Lost Ski Areas Project

I am a longtime member of theNew England Lost Ski Areas Project Discussion Forum. Great general New England skiing talk in addition to the discussion of lost ski areas.

[WalletTrack]

Was surfing around and found this site. It's pretty cool.

New England Lost Ski Areas Project

I am a longtime member of theNew England Lost Ski Areas Project Discussion Forum. Great general New England skiing talk in addition to the discussion of lost ski areas.

A fun coincidence; got a report that one of the mentioned lost "school" ski hills in VT was revived last night by students hauling large containers of ice chips up the slope from the campus rink.
Apparently, youth is not wasted on the young.