List all new posts
Facebook Twitter
> What makes a good offense?
Lucen
post Aug 1 2007, 02:29 PM
Post #1


ERA=(ER/IP)*9
Group Icon

Posts: 3,348
From: Where the work is...




The debate about our offense and whether it's good enough for the playoffs or not seems to be spilling over into multiple threads, so I thought I'd focus the discussion a bit. From my humble perspective, it seems that the historic run of the 2003 and 2004 offenses has altered our perception of what makes a good offense to the point where we don't see it quite clearly any more. This is similar to how Pedro Martinez shifted our idea of what a number 1 pitcher is to the point that we have people complaining that Josh Beckett is an average starter. So why don't we look at where the Sox sit so far, statistically, and then go so far as to compare them to some of the World Series champions of the last decade to see how we stack up.

First, the Sox are averaging 5.14 R/G. That places us fourth in the American League and fifth in baseball. Some have argued that the team we've seen in the last month and a half is the real Red Sox, so we can't use season long stats to gauge how we'll do in the playoffs. And there is some validity to the argument that Lowell probably won't hit like he did in the first half, or that Youkilis might tail off, or that Pedroia may struggle down the stretch, or that Ortiz won't come around, or that Manny is declining, or that Coco won't keep up his recent pace, or any of another dozen things. But what are the chances that all... or even half of these things happen? And what are the chances that as some slump, others might get hot? Baseball is a game of ups and downs. Peaks and valleys. No one stays hot all season. Most players don't stay cold all season. So I'd argue that 5.14 R/G is a pretty good idea of what the Sox are as an offense.

How does this stack up against the most recent World Series champions?

1996: NYY - 5.38 R/G
1997: FLA - 4.57 R/G
1998: NYY - 5.96 R/G
1999: NYY - 5.56 R/G
2000: NYY - 5.38 R/G
2001: ARI - 5.05 R/G
2002: ANA - 5.25 R/G
2003: FLA - 4.64 R/G
2004: BOS - 5.86 R/G
2005: CWS - 4.57 R/G
2006: STL - 4.82 R/G

So, out of the last 10 World Series champions, the Sox are at this point, on pace to average more runs per game than half of them. And we're not far off the pace of 3 more. I don't think this team is in nearly the kind of trouble offensively that some here have been arguing, but this is just one way to look at it. I'm hoping we'll see quite a few different approaches to examining the offense here so we can get a really solid grasp on just how good (or poor) this offense really is.

This post has been edited by Lucen: Aug 1 2007, 02:31 PM


--------------------
- Honestly, stop with the 9/11 crap. Really. Please. If we can't show images of buildings collapsing in monster movies about enormous creatures from the deep without the retarderatti getting their collective panties in a twist, then the terrorists have won. -- CaptainLaddie

Statistics, sufficiently tortured, will confess to anything. - John Bollinger via Monbo Jumbo 8/10/07
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Lucen   What makes a good offense?   Aug 1 2007, 02:29 PM
- - Skins24   I don't see how NL teams are relevant to this ...   Aug 1 2007, 02:36 PM
|- - Lucen   QUOTE (Skins24 @ Aug 1 2007, 03:36 PM) I ...   Aug 1 2007, 02:49 PM
|- - ToxicSmed   QUOTE (Lucen @ Aug 1 2007, 03:49 PM) Whet...   Aug 1 2007, 03:26 PM
- - Tudor Fever   It doesn't look like you're taking park fa...   Aug 1 2007, 02:37 PM
|- - Lucen   QUOTE (Tudor Fever @ Aug 1 2007, 03:37 PM...   Aug 1 2007, 02:42 PM
||- - Pumpsie   QUOTE (Lucen @ Aug 1 2007, 03:42 PM) Why ...   Aug 1 2007, 02:47 PM
||- - Lucen   QUOTE (Pumpsie @ Aug 1 2007, 03:47 PM) Bu...   Aug 1 2007, 02:52 PM
|- - Morgan's Magic Snowplow   QUOTE (Tudor Fever @ Aug 1 2007, 03:37 PM...   Aug 1 2007, 02:48 PM
|- - Lucen   QUOTE (Morgan @ Aug 1 2007, 03:48 PM) Mor...   Aug 1 2007, 02:52 PM
- - Rudy Pemberton   Have to put these runs into context as well....run...   Aug 1 2007, 02:46 PM
- - Worst Trade Evah   The Baseball Prospectus EQA report is here (park a...   Aug 1 2007, 02:56 PM
- - Paul M   The R/PG over time is flawed so much so that it re...   Aug 1 2007, 04:08 PM
- - 86spike   The problem I see is that this offense is a someth...   Aug 1 2007, 04:27 PM
- - Steve Brady   RS (and RA for good measure) after 106 games: COD...   Aug 1 2007, 04:27 PM
|- - Todd Benzinger   QUOTE (Steve Brady @ Aug 1 2007, 04:27 PM...   Aug 1 2007, 05:34 PM
|- - Steve Brady   QUOTE (Todd Benzinger @ Aug 1 2007, 06:34...   Aug 1 2007, 09:52 PM
- - Paul M   For context, NYA when scoring 4-6 runs 4 runs--3-...   Aug 1 2007, 04:58 PM
|- - mangotree101   QUOTE (Paul M @ Aug 1 2007, 05:58 PM) For...   Aug 1 2007, 10:49 PM
- - mangotree101   Frustrating game, so probably a good time for a bi...   Aug 4 2007, 12:48 AM
- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   Part of the frustration from last night's game...   Aug 4 2007, 09:45 AM
|- - Fratboy   QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Aug 4 2007, 10...   Aug 4 2007, 09:52 AM
|- - mangotree101   QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Aug 4 2007, 10...   Aug 4 2007, 09:28 PM
- - mangotree101   How inefficient has the Red Sox' run scoring b...   Aug 4 2007, 07:29 PM
|- - Otis Foster   QUOTE (mangotree101 @ Aug 4 2007, 08:29 P...   Aug 4 2007, 08:33 PM
- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   Interesting to see today so far the Sox have had t...   Aug 5 2007, 04:03 PM
|- - Phil Nevin 23   QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Aug 5 2007, 05...   Aug 5 2007, 04:20 PM
|- - Bowlerman9   QUOTE (Phil Nevin 23 @ Aug 5 2007, 05:20 ...   Aug 5 2007, 04:25 PM
|- - Phil Nevin 23   QUOTE (Bowlerman9 @ Aug 5 2007, 05:25 PM)...   Aug 5 2007, 04:31 PM
- - Ananti   I don't think 18 RBI in 18 PA is bad, when you...   Aug 5 2007, 04:53 PM
|- - Bowlerman9   QUOTE (Ananti @ Aug 5 2007, 05:53 PM) I d...   Aug 5 2007, 05:00 PM
- - Tudor Fever   Sorry, I don't buy that a bases loaded walk is...   Aug 5 2007, 05:20 PM
- - URISoxFan   In the AL this year, there have been 1575 plate ap...   Aug 5 2007, 05:23 PM
|- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   QUOTE (URISoxFan @ Aug 5 2007, 06:23 PM) ...   Aug 5 2007, 06:02 PM
||- - ScotianSox   QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Aug 5 2007, 08...   Aug 5 2007, 07:16 PM
|- - Euclis20   QUOTE (URISoxFan @ Aug 5 2007, 06:23 PM) ...   Aug 5 2007, 08:34 PM
- - ManilaSoxFAN   QUOTE This is an inefficient offensive club overal...   Aug 5 2007, 08:13 PM
|- - Fratboy   QUOTE (ManilaSoxFAN @ Aug 5 2007, 09:13 P...   Aug 5 2007, 09:16 PM
||- - mangotree101   QUOTE (Fratboy @ Aug 5 2007, 10:16 PM) As...   Aug 6 2007, 12:55 AM
|- - samuelLsamson   QUOTE (ManilaSoxFAN @ Aug 6 2007, 02:13 A...   Aug 6 2007, 07:48 AM
|- - ManilaSoxFAN   QUOTE (samuelLsamson @ Aug 6 2007, 08:48 ...   Aug 6 2007, 09:09 AM
- - ManilaSoxFAN   QUOTE (Fratboy @ Aug 5 2007, 10:16 PM) We...   Aug 6 2007, 01:20 AM
|- - Fratboy   QUOTE (ManilaSoxFAN @ Aug 6 2007, 02:20 A...   Aug 6 2007, 09:45 AM
|- - Frisbetarian   I had some time this morning so I took a more deta...   Aug 6 2007, 11:56 AM
|- - TheBenzingerGame   QUOTE (Frisbetarian @ Aug 6 2007, 12:56 P...   Aug 6 2007, 04:12 PM
- - tailwind   QUOTE They're now 3rd in the league in runs sc...   Aug 6 2007, 01:48 AM
- - Noah   QUOTE (mangotree101 @ Aug 4 2007, 07:28 P...   Aug 6 2007, 02:31 AM
|- - TFisNEXT   QUOTE (Noah @ Aug 6 2007, 03:31 AM) Is it...   Aug 6 2007, 03:08 AM
|- - Worst Trade Evah   To me the takeaway isn't so much that teams wi...   Aug 6 2007, 07:13 AM
||- - StupendousMan   QUOTE (Worst Trade Evah @ Aug 6 2007, 08...   Aug 6 2007, 08:25 AM
|- - Lucen   QUOTE (Noah @ Aug 6 2007, 03:31 AM) On th...   Aug 6 2007, 02:51 PM
|- - mangotree101   QUOTE (Lucen @ Aug 6 2007, 03:51 PM) I wa...   Aug 6 2007, 03:49 PM
|- - Lucen   QUOTE (mangotree101 @ Aug 6 2007, 04:49 P...   Aug 6 2007, 03:57 PM
- - mangotree101   Noah -- no, that's not what I was arguing (and...   Aug 6 2007, 03:39 AM
- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   Fris, thanks for that research. That seems to clar...   Aug 6 2007, 12:06 PM
- - Rudy Pemberton   In close and late situations, the Sox have a 706 O...   Aug 6 2007, 12:52 PM
- - Paul M   I mentioned this 6 weeks or so, but situational re...   Aug 6 2007, 01:49 PM
- - Eric Van   According to Contextual Runs, the Sox offense has ...   Aug 6 2007, 05:17 PM
- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   Here's a question: What's the AL average...   Aug 7 2007, 07:22 AM
|- - Frisbetarian   QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Aug 7 2007, 08...   Aug 7 2007, 07:42 AM
- - yecul   How many XBH did they have last night? What kind ...   Aug 7 2007, 07:45 AM
|- - Eric Van   QUOTE (yecul @ Aug 7 2007, 08:45 AM) How ...   Aug 7 2007, 01:25 PM
- - 86spike   QUOTE (Frisbetarian @ Aug 7 2007, 08:42 A...   Aug 7 2007, 07:53 AM
|- - Steve Brady   QUOTE (86spike @ Aug 7 2007, 08:53 AM) So...   Aug 7 2007, 08:33 AM
- - Rudy Pemberton   QUOTE You either have to hit for power or cluster ...   Aug 7 2007, 08:27 AM
- - 86spike   QUOTE (Rudy Pemberton @ Aug 7 2007, 09:27...   Aug 7 2007, 08:35 AM
- - Rudy Pemberton   QUOTE Maddening inconsistency and it does not bode...   Aug 7 2007, 09:00 AM
- - Paul M   Are the Red Sox more inconsistent than other teams...   Aug 7 2007, 09:30 AM
|- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   QUOTE (Paul M @ Aug 7 2007, 10:30 AM) Hey...   Aug 7 2007, 09:39 AM
|- - yecul   Again, I don't think that you can look at an o...   Aug 7 2007, 09:48 AM
||- - Lucen   QUOTE (yecul @ Aug 7 2007, 10:48 AM) 2007...   Aug 7 2007, 01:41 PM
||- - yecul   QUOTE (Lucen @ Aug 7 2007, 02:41 PM) 2007...   Aug 7 2007, 01:49 PM
|- - Steve Brady   QUOTE (Paul M @ Aug 7 2007, 10:30 AM) Or,...   Aug 7 2007, 10:06 AM
- - Rudy Pemberton   The home / road splits are a concern, for sure. T...   Aug 7 2007, 10:14 AM
- - Paul M   Since Mr. Hesketh asked: Diff between Runs and EQ...   Aug 7 2007, 10:15 AM
- - 86spike   QUOTE (yecul @ Aug 7 2007, 02:49 PM) Ther...   Aug 7 2007, 02:01 PM
|- - yecul   QUOTE (86spike @ Aug 7 2007, 03:01 PM) Br...   Aug 7 2007, 02:04 PM
|- - mangotree101   QUOTE (86spike @ Aug 7 2007, 03:01 PM) ye...   Aug 7 2007, 03:27 PM
- - 86spike   QUOTE (yecul @ Aug 7 2007, 03:04 PM) We...   Aug 7 2007, 02:18 PM
- - Paul M   Since I've heard "crickets" with the...   Aug 7 2007, 02:51 PM
|- - Smiling Joe Hesketh   QUOTE (Paul M @ Aug 7 2007, 03:51 PM) Sin...   Aug 7 2007, 02:55 PM
- - 86spike   QUOTE (mangotree101 @ Aug 7 2007, 04:27 P...   Aug 7 2007, 03:54 PM
- - Worst Trade Evah   An update: Our grotesquely inefficient offense is...   Aug 13 2007, 08:36 AM
|- - smastroyin   QUOTE (Worst Trade Evah @ Aug 13 2007, 09...   Aug 13 2007, 08:43 AM
- - Morassofnegativity   Since they have no power they need to play fundame...   Aug 13 2007, 09:23 AM
|- - ManilaSoxFAN   QUOTE (Morassofnegativity @ Aug 13 2007, 10...   Aug 13 2007, 09:58 AM
|- - Vermonter At Large   QUOTE (ManilaSoxFAN @ Aug 13 2007, 10:58 ...   Aug 14 2007, 05:25 AM
|- - ManilaSoxFAN   QUOTE This is an excellent post and summarizes the...   Aug 14 2007, 10:34 AM
- - 86spike   Jermaine Dye is putting up a 1.135 OPS since the A...   Aug 13 2007, 09:51 AM
|- - Worst Trade Evah   QUOTE (86spike @ Aug 13 2007, 10:51 AM) J...   Aug 13 2007, 10:14 AM
- - Morassofnegativity   I think it's simply that the production from O...   Aug 14 2007, 09:30 AM
- - Ananti   Not enough power from 3-4-5 is the main culprit. ...   Aug 14 2007, 10:23 AM
- - Rudy Pemberton   Does everyone realize that the Sox have scored the...   Aug 14 2007, 10:31 AM
|- - Ananti   QUOTE (Rudy Pemberton @ Aug 14 2007, 03:3...   Aug 14 2007, 10:42 AM
|- - Jethro Q. Walrustitty   QUOTE (Ananti @ Aug 14 2007, 11:42 AM) Si...   Aug 14 2007, 10:52 AM
||- - Ananti   QUOTE (Jethro Q. Walrustitty @ Aug 14 2007, 0...   Aug 14 2007, 10:56 AM
|||- - Lucen   QUOTE (Ananti @ Aug 14 2007, 11:56 AM) Th...   Aug 14 2007, 01:22 PM
||- - Harry Hooper   Let me add another vote to the "HRs are under...   Aug 14 2007, 11:05 AM
|- - Lucen   QUOTE (Ananti @ Aug 14 2007, 11:42 AM) Si...   Aug 14 2007, 10:54 AM
- - Worst Trade Evah   For me the issue isn't so much whether or not ...   Aug 14 2007, 11:14 AM
2 Pages V   1 2 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

Add to Google Add to My Yahoo! RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 9th February 2010 - 10:55 AM