Coco's New Stance Options

[Marbleheader]

Red Sox outfielder Coco Crisp put in some extra work before the game with hitting coach Dave Magadan. The center fielder has been looking to eliminate unnecessary "movement" from his stance and stand taller in the batter's box, Francona said.

- MLB.com

Rather than dropping this in the Coco near-megathread, starting a new topic on this subject. His revised approach seems to be paying dividends. Even a modest improvement is welcome news on this front. I'd also like to point out that since I 'traded' him to Atlanta in my avatar, he seems to be turning it around

Coco hit the ball well today. Much more authority in his contact lately.

It was mentioned that Magadan is trying to get him to "stand up" more in his stance. It looks noticable to me. Does anyone have the ability to post a split screen shot of Coco's older stance vs. one from the last couple days?

The first is from the Mother's Day game, the second is from today. You can certainly see the front leg isn't nearly as extended, his stance is less open, and his upper body is straighter.



Certainly something to watch. As a mere laymen, it appears he's in a much better position to hit the ball with the new stance.

Edit: To get all the media in the same post:

LH Stills:
(NESN/FOX)

LH Videos

Old Stance
(NESN)

New Stance
(FOX)


Those are just the pitches he made contact with in these at bats, below are the entire ABs as well. I got a PM asking if the count makes a difference, and his stance doesn't really change one pitch to another.
Old Stance
(NESN)
New Stance
(FOX)

RH Stills:


RH Videos
Old Stance

(NESN)
New Swing

(NESN)

Reason for edit: Combine Content

[ookami7m]

Certainly something to watch. As a mere laymen, it appears he's in a much better position to hit the ball with the new stance.

From a has-been washed up player's viewpoint, this is similar to things I saw when I was playing, it gets his head higher which can help pick out a release point more quickly, and certainly it looked as though he was holding his head steadier.

It looks like his legs are less open as well which may give him more ability to load up on his swings and get some power.

[The Gray Eagle]

His bat is starting higher as well, should give him more control over it and a better anggle to start his swing.

"Crips" has been on base via hit or walk 6 of his last 9 times, plus another one on an error. He seems to be hitting the ball harder lately. Let's hope this keeps up.

[ragnarok725]

It should be noted that the picture on the right seems to be a little later in the pitcher's delivery. Coco might just have waited longer to straighten out in his previous stance. I'm not sure.

I've noted a difference too. It seems there's a little less twitching and he does seem to be a little more straight up but I didn't think the change was quite that pronounced.

[Mike in CT]

Huge difference. Such a more powerful stance on the right. I haven't felt this upbeat about Crisp in a long time (smal sample size aside).

Maybe we can find a picture of his stance from his Cleveland days and take a look at that?

I found this picture of him batting RH in Cleveland... from a side angle.

[Marbleheader]

It should be noted that the picture on the right seems to be a little later in the pitcher's delivery. Coco might just have waited longer to straighten out in his previous stance. I'm not sure.

I've noted a difference too. It seems there's a little less twitching and he does seem to be a little more straight up but I didn't think the change was quite that pronounced.

A little further into the delivery, not much difference. If anything, he seems to be a little more hunched over in the second frame.

[Trautwein's ...]

It looks like his legs are less open as well which may give him more ability to load up on his swings and get some power.

Not only are his legs more closed - his hands are higher and the he is holding the bat up in the zone as opposed to resting the bat on his shoulder as pictured in May. Keeping the bat off his shoulder should shorten his swing and should make him less likely to be late on fastballs. He should be able to better drive the ball with a more compact and efficient swing.

This post has been edited by Marbleheader: Jun 16 2007, 09:12 PM

[DJnVa]

Not only are his legs more closed - his hands are higher and the he is holding the bat up in the zone as opposed to resting the bat on his shoulder as pictured in May. Keeping the bat off his shoulder should shorten his swing and should make him less likely to be late on fastballs. He should be able to better drive the ball with a more compact and efficient swing.

The higher bat is a good sign. He doesn't have the extraordinary bat speed of someone like Sheffield. With his bat down lower and his legs more open it was taking him longer to get the good part of the bat through the zone. In theory he should be quicker through the zone which should lead to much harder contact. Definitely something to keep an eye on the next few days.

[Fratboy]

I know next to nothing about the art and science of hitting, but I can carefully observe body positions (and I'm a PhotoHunt expert), so here goes:

1. Standing up taller. There's less knee bend.
2. Standing up straighter. In the before photos, he's hunched over more toward the plate. In the after ones, he's not.
3. Right shoulder is rotated more toward the pitcher. Note that you see more of his uniform number.
4. Bat is closer to parallel to the ground instead of at a 45 degree angle. Does he wave his bat during the windup, like Sheffield and Bonds?
5. I cannot judge the width between his feet in either of these photos, but in the new photo, the back of his left foot matches up with the front of his right foot, and before, his right foot was far behind the left foot.

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means, but this are the changes I perceive he's made.

Nice captures, guys.

[Mike in CT]

I don't know what date he implemented the change, but in his last 3 games he's 4/9 with 2 walks and 0 K's.

Hey, it's a start.

[Marbleheader]

Frat, he does do a bit of a bat wave, though much less pronounced now. It's all part of the unnecessary movement I'm sure they were discussing.

[67WasBest]

Like most hitters, I went through dead bat periods. Times when nothing I did could generate power. One of the things I tried repeatedly was lowering myself into a crouch in an attempt to get more of my legs into my swing. All this did was ruin my OBP as I struggled to make solid contact of any kind. As I started to swing, I was coming out of that crouch, the constant changing of my eye level and hand plane made it very tough to make good contact. My balance became an issue because the weight transfer took longer and was not always optimal as bat met ball.

The solution for me was to simplify the swing and focus on base hits during the dead bat periods. This may have been what Magadan was doing with Crisp. Take all the extra action out of the swing and bring it back to clean and pure. More upright means less head up and down movement during the swing and because you are more upright, it creates better balance; a higher bat position means a shorter swing and a cleaner angle of attack on the ball.

I need to see more before calling him as being back, but the last couple of games have been much improved and have offered hope he has found something to build on.

[reggiecleveland]

There is no way to under estimate the mental effect of a new approach for a struggling player. If Coco thinks it is working that may be enough. Millar went on his 04 tear after changing his stance, here's hoping for a repeat.

[Lollardfish]

There is no way to under estimate the mental effect of a new approach for a struggling player. If Coco thinks it is working that may be enough. Millar went on his 04 tear after changing his stance, here's hoping for a repeat.

And all we need is offensive competence. Not world-beating all-star, just competence.

[koufax32]

Shhhhhh...don't tell anyone but Coco is hitting .318 over the past week. I know it's a small sample. But a little optimism can't hurt.
LAST 7 GAMES
Date Opp AB R H HR RBI BB SB
06/10 ARI 5 0 1 0 0 0 0
06/12 COL 3 0 1 0 0 0 0
06/13 COL 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
06/14 COL 3 0 1 0 0 1 0
06/15 SF 3 2 1 0 0 1 1
06/16 SF 3 0 2 0 0 0 0
06/17 SF 1 0 1 0 0 0 0

[Vegas Sox Fan]

There is no way to under estimate the mental effect of a new approach for a struggling player. If Coco thinks it is working that may be enough. Millar went on his 04 tear after changing his stance, here's hoping for a repeat.

I'm not sure if Millar's change is a good example. If I remember correctly Millar's hot steak was after he opened his stance so he could pull inside pitches. Eventually he stopped getting inside pitches and the hot streak was over. I could be remembering incorrectly however.

Coco's change seems more fundamentally sound. Count me in as curiously optimistic.

[puffyme]

New stance =HR. Starting to look better 6 for 11 and 5 game hit streak

[Hatcher Steals H...]

Yes, it's a sample size of one, and there is the risk of making this a game thread-esque post, but Crisp just drilled one over the left field wall in Atlanta. He was batting righty. It was solid contact, and looked like a HR right off the bat.

Couple this with the progress that has been noted in this thread, and we have some reason for optimism here.

[Marbleheader]

From the right:

[Trautwein's ...]

Marlbeheader, great observation here.

On the second homerun tonight, he really appeared to have shortened his swing and is driving the ball as a result. Very good cuts tonight from Coco.