The ghost of 1978 Options

[Worst Trade Evah]

So I browsed over at nyyfans.com, and was struck by the number of references to 1978. It's become a sort of rallying cry for the Yankee season. Passing over the problem of fans of a team with the greatest choke in the history of sports obsessing about the 30 year old sort-of choke of their rival, I think that's great -- this is a opportunity to knock down the last of the great Red Sox bogeyman. 2004 wiped away a whole ton of stuff (especially 1986 and 2003, combining heroic comeback with victory over the Evil Empire), but a wire to wire win of the division straight up over a good Yankee team would be an achievement all by itself.

It's already been observed here and elsewhere that in a lot of ways 1978 is an unfair symbol of the season choke. Still, it's out there, and it's time for this ghost to be taken head-on. What an achievement it would be for this ownership to knock down the last of the historic bogeymen facing the Red Sox.

We need the division title this year. I do, anyway. We didn't need it at the beginning of the season, and if we win a championship through the wild card this year, I won't be complaining. Maybe it seems unreasonable, but I just think it's important for the franchise to win the division with a wire-to-wire run this year.

Mystique and Aura were knocked off the night-club stage in 2004. It's 1978's turn.

[5belongstoGeorge]

There are no ghostly on-field connections between 1978 and today... except inside some fans' heads.

Nostalgia doesn't negate quality starting pitching.

[ObstructedView]

I'm also in this camp. I know it's become fashionable (and that it is of course technically accurate) to say that it doesn't matter who wins the division as long as you make the playoffs, but as a fan of the game there's something uniquely satisfying about taking a division crown after a 162-game campaign and all of its ups and downs. Don't get me wrong: that's not the same as saying that I would be satisfied with a Braves-esque finish to the season. But for once, I want to see the Sox withstand the threats and outlast the Yankees over the course of the regular season.

This post has been edited by ObstructedView: Jun 14 2007, 12:06 PM

[Kevin Mortons Gh...]

Nostalgia doesn't negate quality starting pitching.

Or relief pitching. How'd you like to have this 1-2 punch in the bullpen:

Gossage - 134 1/3 IP, 2.01 ERA
Lyle - 111 2/3 IP, 3.47 ERA

[yecul]

The Yankees have a lot of good talent and now have at least three quality starters in Wang, Pettitte, and Clemens. Overall they are extremely comparable to the Red Sox overall.

The Red Sox were playing over their head setting up unreasonable expectations. They're not as good as they were then nor are they as bad as they have been playing recently. But would anyone be surprised when the Yankees string off a month or so of stellar ball like Boston did? They've been on a tear and have the talent.

This is not a 1978 collapse and has nothing to do with curses or whatever.

[DieHard3]

The Yankees have a lot of good talent and now have at least three quality starters in Wang, Pettitte, and Clemens. Overall they are extremely comparable to the Red Sox overall.

And Mussina looked pretty good last night too. I still have to be convinced that the Red Sox starters are better than New York's over a full season. I'd rather have Wang than anyone on our staff, and Pettitte is still a better bet for a quality start than all but Beckett.

The Red Sox were playing over their head setting up unreasonable expectations. They're not as good as they were then nor are they as bad as they have been playing recently. But would anyone be surprised when the Yankees string off a month or so of stellar ball like Boston did? They've been on a tear and have the talent.

I agree, the fact that the Yankee cold streak and Red Sox hot streak coincided with the beginning of the season gave a false picture of the talent levels on each team. It would be nice, of course, if Coco Crisp, Julio Lugo, and J.D. Drew would stop sucking.

This is not a 1978 collapse and has nothing to do with curses or whatever.

Nah, in 1978 it took until July for the team to collapse. The June Swoon is much rarer than the Fall Fallout.

[Monbo Jumbo]

Nah, in 1978 it took until July for the team to collapse. The June Swoon is much rarer than the Fall Fallout.

The June swoon was 1977.

[Paradigm]

I'd rather have Wang than anyone on our staff...

OK, I'll bite. Why would you rather have Wang over Beckett?

[JimD]

I want the Sox to win so we can squash the 'Curse of 1978' like Phil Leotardo's noggin before CHB decides to write a book about it.

[Worst Trade Evah]

Just to emphasize, I don't think there's any actual connection, I hated all the curse of the bambino bullshit, and I'm not all that superstitious (though I enjoy a good no-hitter buzz).

But 1978 is going to be a press phenomenon this year -- there's just no getting around it. The press machines of both cities will flog this nonsense, just the way they used to flog the curse crap. The players in 2004 had to deal with the questions about the Sox losing big games over and over and over again, until they won all the big games. The players in 2007 will have to do the same.

[biollante]

Is there any chance we can convince the media to ask relevant questions ?

This is a personal dream of mine, a goal, a vision and a destiny.
Someday our faithful reporters will ask questions about baseball rather than make inquiries into something that happened in 1978. 1978 doesn't have a ghost.
I can't even believe that this thread was started.

I thought there was a ban on supernatural threads around here.

[The Allented Mr ...]

Nah, in 1978 it took until July for the team to collapse.

They didn't even collapse in July in '78. They had an 6.5 game lead on September 1st (after having a 5 game lead entering August, down from their biggest lead of 10 in early July). That lead went down the drain in the first ten days in September (they went 2-8), culminating in the tie for first place after the Boston Massacre, the last game of which was on the 10th.

[DJnVa]

When the Sox had a 14.5 game lead everyone here said they weren't 14.5 games better than the Yankees. So, it was always going to tighten.

After from the 5 game slide, the Sox are 4-2 in their last 6 and have a 9-0 pitcher starting in 4 hours.

This post has been edited by DJnVa: Jun 14 2007, 02:17 PM

[montoursvillefan]

So I browsed over at nyyfans.com, and was struck by the number of references to 1978. It's become a sort of rallying cry for the Yankee season.

Mystique and Aura were knocked off the night-club stage in 2004. It's 1978's turn.

More than just a rallying cry at nyyfans.com. Just the other day Mike's dad just had to bring it up to me, 1978. Not wanting to get into it with him, I just advised that they'd (his son and the mfys) better keep chasing, for the remainder of the season. Of course he isn't the only one down this way taunting, and self-proclaiming, 1978. I've heard enough of the 1978 crap thus far this season, it has gotten to the point that those people appear, and sound, to be truly concerned and grasp at something to get me pissed off. The present Sox staff and team on the field will prevail.

[Monbo Jumbo]

On June 23, 1977 the Sox had a 5 game lead over the second place Yanks. By July 6, they were in 3rd place 1.5 games out.

[bmacfarlane]

Well they don't have 1918, the 26 rings thing is a burden to them because they haven't won going on seven years so they need to hang their hats on something. Lest they/we forget, that '78 Sox team didn't just lay down after blowing the lead, they won the last eight to tie it before losing the play-off.

[Trautwein's ...]

If the Red Sox blow this lead it has nothing to do with 1978 and everything to do with Theo being unable to identify and properly value veteran players in the free agent market. At this point, all that money to Drew and Lugo looks pretty foolish. That and Tito's manlove for starting Alex Cora over Dustin Pedroia or pitching Mike Timlin.

Also if the Yankees come back in win the division, I think it will have alot more to do with Arod hitting like the second coming of Babe Ruth and getting decent enough starting pitching from Mussina, Wang, Clemens, Pettitte, et al.

This post has been edited by Trautwein's Degree: Jun 14 2007, 03:08 PM

[Tudor Fever]

It seems like a long time, because all our troubles seemed so far away, but this very topic was discussed here in an excellent but short-lived thread less than three weeks ago. It's very interesting to compare the tone of the threads.

Here was my contribution, to which I'll stick:

When (not if) things start to go badly for the Sox this year, Francona and the front office will pretty quickly go to Plans B and, if necessary Plans C and D to get things back on track. The odds of their succeeding in doing so are pretty good. The people running the 1978 club showed no evidence that they understood the concept of needing a Plan B.

[Jethro Q. Walrus...]

I'll be happy if a repeat of 1978 happens this year. Both teams win 99 games and make the playoffs.

[BoSoxLady]

The mere mention of 1978 is idiotic. Ron Guidry isn't walking through that door. Let the media play the 1978 card. It's what they do. This crap validates the stereotype that we obsess about the Yankees and worry constantly that the team will fold. Didn't you folks learn anything from 2004? If you can't deal with the ups and downs of a 162 game season, go to bed and pull the covers up over your head. We'll see you in October.