The Bloody Sock "controversy" Options

[Bernie Carbohydr...]

This was being discussed in the 4/25 Game Thread, but it made the lead of Edes' game story in the Globe as well:

Schilling's reputation was the target of an attempted hit from, of all places, the Orioles' television broadcasting booth.

O's broadcaster Gary Thorne claims that Mirabelli revealed that the Bloody Sock was merely painted.

"The great story we were talking about the other night was that famous red stocking that he wore when they finally won, the blood on his stocking," Thorne said to broadcast partner Jim Palmer, the Hall of Fame pitcher, in a conversation that had begun with a discussion of Schilling's blog.

"Nah," Thorne said. "It was painted. Doug Mirabelli confessed up to it after. It was all for PR. Two-ball, two-strike count."

Palmer: "Yeah, that was the 2004 World Series [sic]." Thorne: "Yeah."

During a break two innings later, Thorne confirmed that's what he said, and that Mirabelli had told him so in a conversation "a couple of years ago."

"Go ask him [Mirabelli]," Thorne said.

Mirabelli was shocked, then angry, when relayed Thorne's comments.

"What? Are you kidding me? He's [expletive] lying. A straight lie," Mirabelli said. "I never said that. I know it was blood. Everybody knows it was blood."

[Kevin Mortons Gh...]

Yeah, lets not have any heroes, any stories worth telling our grandchildren. Babe Ruth didn't call the shot, "the Giants won the pennant!" because they were stealing signs, etc... Next they'll be telling us that Dave Roberts didn't really steal that base.

[smastroyin]

I don't get it. Even at a site like this, we have constant refrains of HGHiambi, Jeter sucks, and well the list goes on forever. We constantly take the smallest piece of truth about the Yankees being bad and magnify it into a congressional investigation. (I know this is because the Yankees are evil and we have to do our part). Why should we surprised that there are bottom dwellers who take out their jealousy of the Red Sox in ways like this.

We are so obsessed with being the underdogs as Red Sox fans that we seem to forget we have it better than all but a small handful of other teams.

In the abstract, yes, it totally sucks that Thorne lied. But he's been stuck watching the Orioles for the last how many years? I think I would fall into dementia myself.

[drleather2001]

Mike and Mike in the morning were talking about this when my alarm went off. They seemed, more than anything else, incredulous that the Thorne would throw Mirabelli under the bus, assuming the claim that he had such a great relationship with Dougie Bombs was true.

Just as an aside, shouldn't this be in the media forum?

This post has been edited by drleather2001: Apr 26 2007, 06:32 AM

[Quintananana]

Yeah, lets not have any heroes, any stories worth telling our grandchildren. Babe Ruth didn't call the shot, "the Giants won the pennant!" because they were stealing signs, etc... Next they'll be telling us that Dave Roberts didn't really steal that base.

Tell me that Dave Roberts should have been called out on that steal, and I'll have a lot more respect for you than this thing with the sock. Calling him safe at second on a close call, was a judgement call that probably could have gone the other way, just as many safe/out calls could. But to say that Schilling painted his sock and that Belli was stupid enough to tell some people about it afterward?? That's ridiculous. I hope Mirabelli and Schilling don't just let these guys off the hook with this one.

[Quintanariffic]

Mike and Mike in the morning were talking about this when my alarm went off. They seemed, more than anything else, incredulous that the Thorne would throw Mirabelli under the bus, assuming the claim that he had such a great relationship with Dougie Bombs was true.

Just as an aside, shouldn't this be in the media forum?

They'll be talking about it with Kurkjian in ten minutes.

[FelixMantilla]

I find it ironic that now it's G38 who is getting "Swift-Boated."

[gcapalbo]

This whole idiotic premise fits right in there with the class of people who believe in the Moon Landing Hoax, the Bermuda Triangle, Bigfoot, Jeter has exceptional range, etc.

If you deconstruct this thing, Thone's whole 'argument', if you think it through is actually based on the supposition that the temporary surgery on Schilling's ankle never actually happened.

If you remember, Morgan performed the procedure to temporarily repair the loose tendon a very short time before the two games he pitched in (i.e. within 24 hours of stepping on the mound, and perhaps the same day). Not only that, the sutures were temporary, e.g. Morgan took out the sutures after the game was over against the Yankees and did it again for the WS. IF the world series had gone long enough for Schiling to have to pitch again, there was some question as whether this surgery could have been performed again.

Anybody who has ever had any kind of surgery involving stiches knows that within the first few days there is the real risk of bleeding if you stress the surgical area too much.

If you take the case of a major league pitcher who has dislocated his tendon because his pitching motion puts too much stress on a particular area of his ankle... and then you mechanically tack down the tendon--- all the stress that was on the tendon, that caused the tendon to rip in the first place is going to be transferred to those sutures.

Those sutures are going to bleed.

So-- either Schilling, Morgan, the entire Red Sox training staff, a couple of cadavers who gave up their legs so Morgan could practice the procedure, the medical staff who performed Schilling's offseason surgery after '04 to repair the dislocated tendon, the Hall of Fame are all lying...

Or Thorne is telling the truth.

[SouthPaw21]

Any word on what Tim Kurkjian had to say about all of this on Mike & Mike this morning?

[SawxSince67]

The Site Rthat Should SNot be DLinkedD.

[DJnVa]

Any word on what Tim Kurkjian had to say about all of this on Mike & Mike this morning?

He said that he believes it was blood, that there was enough drama, even for Curt Schilling. Said that he has been friends with Thorne for a long time and is confused about this. He said that he once saw Schilling (who he's known for a long time as well) before a sprint training game he was pitching, and Curt would barely acknowledge him. He said to think he sat down at his locker before Game 6 of the ALCS and painted his sock is a bit much.

Is there a chance Mirabelli was joking around a few years ago and doesn't even recall it?

[smastroyin]

He said that he believes it was blood, that there was enough drama, even for Curt Schilling. Said that he has been friends with Thorne for a long time and is confused about this. He said that he once saw Schilling (who he's known for a long time as well) before a sprint training game he was pitching, and Curt would barely acknowledge him. He said to think he sat down at his locker before Game 6 of the ALCS and painted his sock is a bit much.

I think someone's writing is rubbing off on you, DJ.

Seriously I'm really having trouble following what you are saying here. Who did Curt barely acknowledge? Thorne?

[DJnVa]

I think someone's writing is rubbing off on you, DJ.

Seriously I'm really having trouble following what you are saying here. Who did Curt barely acknowledge? Thorne?

The question was about what Kurkjian said on the radio---everything in my post references Kurkjian---

He (Kurkjian) said that he believes it was blood, that there was enough drama, even for Curt Schilling. Said that he (Kurkjian) has been friends with Thorne for a long time and is confused about this. He (Kurkjian) said that he (Kurkjian) once saw Schilling (who he's known for a long time as well) before a spring training game he was pitching, and Curt would barely acknowledge him(because he's so intense). He (Kurkjian) said to think he sat down at his locker before Game 6 of the ALCS and painted his sock is a bit much.

Better?

This post has been edited by DJnVa: Apr 26 2007, 07:23 AM

[TheoShmeo]

The Site Rthat Should SNot be DLinkedD.

Gary Thorne and others who claim that the red was ink will point out that the picture above is not necessarily of Schilling's ankle. Maybe it was JFK's.

I thought Theo's quote in today's Globe about not giving two shits about what Gary Thorne said was perfect.

And even if Thorne is to be believed (and I agree that if he's being truthful and right, a lot of people had to be telling an extremely coordinated lie, which seems highly unlikely), what a silly way to "break" a story about something that happened in the 2004 playoffs. Revealing this in mid-game in an off-handed way as if it was just another player anecdote to be passed on during the play-by-play banter seems ridiculous.

[smastroyin]

The question was about what Kurkjian said on the radio---everything in my post references Kurkjian---
Better?

Much. Thanks for the transcript.

The little (because he was so intense) is the real clarification. When I read it the first time I thought there was an implied insult which would lead someone to want to lie about Schilling.

[86spike]

I think someone's writing is rubbing off on you, DJ.

Seriously I'm really having trouble following what you are saying here. Who did Curt barely acknowledge? Thorne?

No - Kurkjian was talking about how Schilling is one of the most intense pitchers he's ever seen on game day and that he highly doubts Schilling would take time out of his crazy focus prior to game time to paint his sock. He underscored this by mentioning seeing Schill in the dugout prior to a spring training game and Schill didn't respond in any way when Kurkjian said hello... because he was so intensely focused on his game... and that was for an exhibition game (as opposed to the ALCS).

In the end... I don't give a shit what was on that sock... I just care about the score at the end of that game.

[joyofsox]

Glad to see Thorne's comments are making the rounds.

Edes found out about the comments from me, in an email I sent out just after the fifth inning. We emailed and spoke on the phone a couple of times over the next three hours.

I also sent him the exact transcript of what was said on the air. It would have been nice to get a half-sentence of credit for the tip.

[Buck Showalter]

Mike and The Mad Dog were just discussing it on WFAN (they have been filling-in for Imus since the comment) and Charles McCord (Imus' long-time sidekick) had the most obvious comment:

'if the bloody sock is in Cooperstown.....an easy solution is to perform a test on it'........

By the way, Thorne - who has been a long-time Mets announcer - was described by Russo as being "sloppy" in the past.

This post has been edited by Buck Showalter: Apr 26 2007, 08:12 AM

[8 and 9 in Left]

Is there a chance Mirabelli was joking around a few years ago and doesn't even recall it?

Seems the most likely explanation. Moreover, if Thorne actually believed it, then why would he have waited 2.5 years to reveal it and then only do so on a local broadcast? I'm naive enough I guess to assume that Thorne isn't making up the conversation, but I'm guessing Thorne took a joking offhand remark made long ago, recalled it last night, and ran with it without making clear that Belli was joking.

[Carroll Hardy]

There are two bloody socks: one from Game 6, ALCS and one from Game 2, WS.

It is ludicrous to believe that the first one is phony. How would Schilling have known in advance he was going to have a legendary performance? His ALCS Game 1 start was a disaster. In fact, he didn't even think to keep the sock. I believe I read something later that had he thought about it, he could have auctioned it off to charity.

Which brings us to the second bloody sock from the WS. Now while one could doubt that Schilling would take time out of his crazy focus prior to game time to paint his sock, someone DID take the time to paint "K ALS" on his shoe. Obviously, there was a realization that the ankle would draw a lot of attention, and using an opportunity to raise awareness for such a worthy cause was a noble act. I have no idea whether the blood was fake or not. This sock ended up in Cooperstown, and was NOT auctioned for charity. Certainly, it could have raised a lot of money for charity if it were: unless, of course it was NOT a bloody sock, in which case someone could get in real legal trouble.