Brett Meyers to Pen... Lieber to start Options

[Kyle C.]

The Phillies moved Brett Meyers out of their rotation and put him in the pen as a set up man. John Lieber in turn will be the new starting pitcher for the Phills. Heres a link... http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6702882

Is it just me or was Meyers one of the Phills better pitchers last year? I know he struggling now but seriously.. I sign of desperation for the fighting Phills?

[Wade Boggs Hair]

The Phillies moved Brett Meyers out of their rotation and put him in the pen as a set up man. John Lieber in turn will be the new starting pitcher for the Phills. Heres a link... http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6702882

Is it just me or was Meyers one of the Phills better pitchers last year? I know he struggling now but seriously.. I sign of desperation for the fighting Phills?

Interesting.

Brett Myers led the Phillies in ERA in both 2004 and 2005 (Link), posting ERA+'s of 122 and 118, respectively (B-R).

Does this make the rotation: Hamels, Lieber, Garcia, Moyer and Eaton?

I'm surprised they'd dump Myers before Eaton...but this is also an organization prioritizing the acquisition of "gamers" rather than players who are good at baseball.

[SoxScout]

No wonder Philly always sucks, WTF are they thinking? Pat Gillick... real smart decision.

xFIP - Expected Fielding Independent Pitching. This is an experimental stat that adjusts FIP and "normalizes" the home run component. Research has shown that home runs allowed are pretty much a function of flyballs allowed and home park, so xFIP is based on the average number of home runs allowed per outfield fly. Theoretically, this should be a better predicter of a pitcher's future ERA.

2005 - 3.49
2006 - 3.89
2007 - 3.80

This post has been edited by SoxScout: Apr 18 2007, 04:25 PM

[tailwind]

No wonder Philly always sucks, WTF are they thinking? Pat Gillick... real smart decision.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Myers is their best pitcher, and the only one that's close to him is Hamels. The rest of their rotation is filled with innings-eaters (Garcia, Moyer, Lieber,) and one guy that's always underachived (Eaton.)

[Kyle C.]

Interesting.

Brett Myers led the Phillies in ERA in both 2004 and 2005 (Link), posting ERA+'s of 122 and 118, respectively (B-R).

Does this make the rotation: Hamels, Lieber, Garcia, Moyer and Eaton?

You are correct on the Starting five.. I was really taken back that the Phillies would even consider this move.. It's way to early to even think of doing this.

[Paul M]

Some might say we are doing the same thing--I don't agree fwiw--by having Papelbon close and Tavarez start. Major differences are we have 3 and maybe 4 starters as good as Papelbon and Philly has 1 starter better than Myers (I think Hamels is the ace). Also, Myers would not be used at the very end of games as much. Now, if Myers can pitch 120 innings in this way, they might get something of value here. If he's going to be just another 70 IP set-up guy, than it's silly. I'd like to see him go 2 innings twice a week, or even 3 if he's really on.

[Shonday]

Some might say we are doing the same thing--I don't agree fwiw--by having Papelbon close and Tavarez start. Major differences are we have 3 and maybe 4 starters as good as Papelbon and Philly has 1 starter better than Myers (I think Hamels is the ace). Also, Myers would not be used at the very end of games as much. Now, if Myers can pitch 120 innings in this way, they might get something of value here. If he's going to be just another 70 IP set-up guy, than it's silly. I'd like to see him go 2 innings twice a week, or even 3 if he's really on.

It might be the same thing if Papelbon was the Red Sox's (Sox? Sox'?) best starter the last two years. As it is...not really too similar, as Papelbon's MLB experience as a starter is minimal. Myers' MLB experience as a reliever is non existent.

[tailwind]

Some might say we are doing the same thing--I don't agree fwiw--by having Papelbon close and Tavarez start. Major differences are we have 3 and maybe 4 starters as good as Papelbon and Philly has 1 starter better than Myers (I think Hamels is the ace). Also, Myers would not be used at the very end of games as much. Now, if Myers can pitch 120 innings in this way, they might get something of value here. If he's going to be just another 70 IP set-up guy, than it's silly. I'd like to see him go 2 innings twice a week, or even 3 if he's really on.

Not the same scenario. Papelbon had closed last year-very well. His experiment as a starter was due to medical reasons, now which obviously aren't as much of a concern. Myers has always been a starter, and usually a pretty good one.

This move seems completely reactionary based off Myers' recent struggles. This would pretty much only be comparable to the Sox if we turned Daisuke into a longman if he sucked after two or three starts.

[bkagan5]

The move is absolutely insane if you ask me. Myers was excellent for them the last two seasons, and even though he struggled in his first two starts this year he still had a good spring training. It's a toss up between Myers and Hamels (who has more potential) as to who is their best starter today. This seems to me to be a panic move in response to the struggles of the Philly bullpen and the clubhouse problems with manager Charlie Manuel. As a Mets fan I'm absolutey ecstatic about not having to face Myers as a starter this year and only see him a couple of innings a game out of the bullpen max.

[JohntheBaptist]

Wow, this is really dumb. I know it's an attempt at a "shakeup"- sort of like when Billy Beane sent Jeremy Giambi to said Phillies for John Mabry and sent a few guys down.

That said, this is misguided. He's had a rough start, but he's likely their best pitcher. He's also only 26.

Any way you slice it though, this team definitely needs a change somewhere. They're too good to be performing like this.

[Shonday]

Unbelievably stupid move. I was checking Rotoworld at work and read about Myers discovering a flaw in his mechanics that he thought caused his bad performance so far. Then I get home and see he's suddenly in the pen for Leiber? Why him? Throw Eaton back to the pen where he belongs.

[stephensjh]

The Wharton School of business recently completed a study showing " wife-beaters " make dominant set-up men. How else to explain a strategy this odd; as has been pointed-out in this thread, no valid comparison to the Paps decision.

Seriously, the combo of Charlie Manuel ( who makes Grady Little look ' smart ' ) and StandPat Gillick are probably worse than the Bruins dynamic duo of Chia/lLewis.

As an aside, the odds that Flash Gordon will make thru the season are pretty low; why not at least make Myers a Jamesian relief ace? Oh yeah, not a chance with Manuel/Gillick running the show.

[The Flying Dutch...]

This is It is ridiculous that I can't spell the word ridiculous, it better be to just showcase Lieber for a relief trade.

[Wade Boggs Hair]

Didn't Adam Eaton and the team say before the season that he might have to be the 6th starter and go back and forth between the rotation and the pen? I even remember Eaton saying he'd be OK with long relief if he had to.

If I'm correct in that recollection, that means the Phillies made this move based solely on reaction to Myers first outings, which proves its idiocy because of the xFIP listed above. His peripherals aren't much different than normal and the Phillies don't have anything other than freakish BABIP activity. Dumb dumb dumb.

This post has been edited by Wade Boggs Hair: Apr 18 2007, 09:06 PM

[jsinger121]

I was forced to drop Myers in 2 fantasy leagues.

[Shonday]

I was forced to drop Myers in 2 fantasy leagues.

Now THAT wasn't wise. They could easily reverse the decision in a week.

[stephensjh]

Phils get bit in the ass tonite vs. Reds. Leading 1-0 into the 8th, Myers is brought on and pitches a scoreless inning. In the 9th, Manuel replaces Myers and brings on Flash who promptly blows the save. Flash is sent out in the 10th ( tied ) and gives up the winning run accumulating 37 pitches in the process. Flash will be cooked in the very near future in he is allowed to throw 37 pitches. Manuel is a total dumass and I'll repeat..... he makes Grady seem like the proverbial " Rhodes " scholar

Ps Kyle Lohse has an era of under 2 thru 28 innings and has an 7.7k/w ratio. I know its SSS, but his NL results reinforce the offensive futility of the NL.

This post has been edited by stephensjh: Apr 20 2007, 10:18 PM

[Michelle34B]

Phils get bit in the ass tonite vs. Reds. Leading 1-0 into the 8th, Myers is brought on and pitches a scoreless inning. In the 9th, Manuel replaces Myers and brings on Flash who promptly blows the save. Flash is sent out in the 10th ( tied ) and gives up the winning run accumulating 37 pitches in the process. Flash will be cooked in the very near future in he is allowed to throw 37 pitches. Manuel is a total dumass and I'll repeat..... he makes Grady seem like the proverbial " Rhodes " scholar

Ps Kyle Lohse has an era of under 2 thru 28 innings and has an 7.7k/w ratio. I know its SSS, but his NL results reinforce the offensive futility of the NL.

I don't think Lohse is THIS good of a pitcher, but his curveball has looked really good this year. I'm probably wrong, because as you said, SSS, especially for someone who has 1,000 IP in his career. Gordon pitched the night before, so you think they would have just let Myers finish the game off.

[LondonSox]

Not the same scenario. Papelbon had closed last year-very well. His experiment as a starter was due to medical reasons, now which obviously aren't as much of a concern. Myers has always been a starter, and usually a pretty good one.

This move seems completely reactionary based off Myers' recent struggles. This would pretty much only be comparable to the Sox if we turned Daisuke into a longman if he sucked after two or three starts.

Err Paplebon's experiment as a starter was due to medical reasons? Not really he was a starterthrough the minors and always expected to be as such and a top starter is more valuable than a top relief pitcher. Personally I still question the decision despite loving having him as a shut down option.

The Myers move is a joke, but the start is so bad they're just panicking. It's to show Leiber can still pitch and trade him, it cannot be for long or the Philly fnas will kill someone

[Paradigm]

I've never thought much of Manuel as a manager, but whatever you might think, Gillick has always put together solid rosters, and on paper, this Phillies team is one of the best in the NL, and even despite this move, I think they'll be where they should be in two months. Their offense is too good, and the overwhelmingly solid SP's like Lieber and Garcia, and an ace like Hamels should be enough to get them there. But boy, do they need a reliever...they need to find a team looking for an SP and hope that they take Moyer or Lieber. Texas needs an SP but has no decent relievers to trade; no way they could deal Otsuka.