TOR has been without their 2nd leading scorer 1st 3 games and leading scorer last 2. They missed 1 combined game the regular season.
B's were as healthy as they could be this series. They are not close to even given those circumstances.
Round 1 Bruins-Leafs
- Thread starter The Napkin
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B's were as healthy as they could be this series. They are not close to even given those circumstances.
And Samsonov was garbage in games 1 through 4. Absolutely terrible. The Bruins had a huge edge in goaltending as long as Keefe was playing him.
So we're holding series wins as data points for them blowing it. Hand waive off the game 7 wins as "coin flips" buit I guess games 5 and 6 aren't coin flips.
By the same logic, the Blues choked game 6 in 2019 but won a coin toss in game 7.
And they exited those 4 games up 3-1. Mission accomplished there. If you want to fault them for not making a clean sweep, feel free to make the argument.
I'll leave it alone after this as you guys seem determined to wallow in despair. They lost an overtime game last night. They didn't play all that great but also faced a slanted set of refs and a goaltender who really stepped up. And it went to overtime after they had two real strong chances to win (Marchy going wide of the net on a bouncer and Frederic not lifting the puck). Bottom line - they were *that* close... I'd feel a lot worse if they lost 4-1 on home ice is my only point there.
And now they have two more chances to close it out - one in Toronto and one in Boston. As was said earlier they are 'not even close to evenly matched' so should therefore hold a distinct advantage. And yet the doomcasting, based mainly on losing an overtime game last night. It makes for good sports radio but seems misplaced here.
That'll be the last one for me until after the next game. Wallow away...
This team has lost exactly one close out game. Not 5. We laugh at stats that say that Team X is 28-3 against Team Y, because we know that doesn't mean anything. What Bruins teams in the past have nothing to do with this current iteration.
That's not really true. With this same coach and largely the same core group of players, they lost 3 straight such games just last year. And the game 7 the year before that. It's the same core guys.
This isn't reaching back to 2014 or whatever. This is a recent run of bad results in closing games with these same core players. I think that's why I'm so concerned about this series, because this exact group has struggled mightily in the past two or three years in these very situations.
View: https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/1785731186884575469?s=46
Someone I would happily give a blank check to if Monty were to be disappeared.
Someone I would happily give a blank check to if Monty were to be disappeared.
If they don’t win this series, Monty has to go IMO.
I’m not saying they will lose - but the eerie comparisons of last year are something. Up 3-1. Tinkering with lines. Losing G5 to the backup goalie who played great. Multiple chances to win (and lose to be fair) in regulation only to eventually lose in OT.
Hopefully they blow them out tomorrow night, but IF they lose does anyone have confidence in G7?
I’m not saying they will lose - but the eerie comparisons of last year are something. Up 3-1. Tinkering with lines. Losing G5 to the backup goalie who played great. Multiple chances to win (and lose to be fair) in regulation only to eventually lose in OT.
Hopefully they blow them out tomorrow night, but IF they lose does anyone have confidence in G7?
Just saw this stat on Reddit:
Since Bergeron's winner in Game 7 against TOR, the Bruins are 4-11 in playoff OT games at home. 2 of those wins were later in that same postseason. The other two were against Washington a couple of years ago (the Craig Smith wraparound), and against CLB in 2019 (Charlie Coyle).
Which is....not ideal. Still, could be worse: Edmonton is 1-7 in the same situations.
Since Bergeron's winner in Game 7 against TOR, the Bruins are 4-11 in playoff OT games at home. 2 of those wins were later in that same postseason. The other two were against Washington a couple of years ago (the Craig Smith wraparound), and against CLB in 2019 (Charlie Coyle).
Which is....not ideal. Still, could be worse: Edmonton is 1-7 in the same situations.
The recent run of bad results in closing games is 1 year and 3 games. 2 years and 4 games if you want to be generous and include a Carolina team they were completely overmatched by.
I'd kill myself if I came in here afterwards saying "I told you so", it's not a part of the equation. I'm just trying to live in the reality that this team sucks closing out series, until proven otherwise. It's not doom posting or whatever dumb phrase has been thrown around in here, it's reality.
Please stop, nobody is saying they are losers. I don't understand why some posters in here are so offended that others aren't enthused with the effort last night and are being realistic about the way this team has performed in close out games.
Stop being provocative to push a narrative that we're all doomposting and calling them losers. It's childish.
5 games including Carolina. 1 this year, 3 last year, 1 against Carolina.
If we're being completely accurate. Also have to disagree that they were overmatched by Carolina, they took it to 7 games and it was an odd series where each team won blowouts on their home ice until Game 7 where the final was 3-2.
In any case, they have to figure this out. I would assume Matthews is back for Game 6 and Woll will be in net again, so the road just got more difficult.
I’m not trying to set up an “I told you so” either. I just don’t know how, after repeatedly getting kicked in the nuts, to not prepare to get kicked in the nuts.
Just quick back of the envelope math... about 25-30% of last night's skaters weren't on the team last year. So obviously it isn't a team-wide issue. Do we think that Bergeron or Marchand are saying "It's ok boys... we can go easy today...if we don't win we'll get them the next game, eh"? Do you think Monty doesn't realize that his head is on the guillotine waiting for the executioner to drop his hand?
Sometimes teams have bad games. Shitaki happens.
Because words matter and you are doing a shitty job of using them. People keep saying "they struggle to close out series" when you actually mean something else because there's no empirical evidence beyond last year that support the assertion, it's annoying. And then you and others keep repeating what amounts to a sports radio narrative.
I wasnt pointing to any one poster specifically, more just a broad comment on sports fandom in general based on things Ive read here...the rest of the internets...sports radio...general water cool talk...etc over the past 25 years or so. Feels like part of the (sports fan) human condition from my POV. And of course, I could 100% be right but by no means does that mean it applies to every single sports fan. And again, I dont think most fans do it intentionally.
This would be a good discussion for the postseason, but I think there is an issue around the team with how they approach these situations, it's been persistent for a few years now. Someone in the game thread mentioned it which got me to thinking: is having good people/leaders by example like Chara/Bergeron/Marchard somehow making them more prone to being pushed around in do or die games? Would they be better off with a complete dickhead like Tkachuk as a leader instead? Jamie Benn's an ass too, and yet Dallas somehow dragged themselves to the Final a couple of years ago, with their backup goalie to boot.
It sounds ridiculous but I do wonder about leadership styles around the league.
This may also go back to the team's insistence on allowing their opponents to play the media game and influence the reffing. That's been another longstanding problem.
Feels like a lot of noise -- for both teams -- based on history that many of the players didn't have much to do with. Going into the series, I thought the Bruins were a little better, but I viewed these games as close to coin flips. Maybe slightly skewed -- call it 54/46 or whatever. They both have a lot of talent, and they both have some holes. I thought the Bruins were fortunate to be up 3-1. 3-2 feels about right. I think both these games are coin flips, and all the stuff about "can't close it out" or "can't win at home" is worth taking seriously, but sometimes a keeper gets a toe on it, and sometimes it hits the pipe. It's a 75/25 proposition right now.
The Leafs look like they are playing the type of game that I associate with playoff hockey a bit more than the Bruins. They look more likely to get some greasy goals. The Bruins have a propensity at times to try to skate the puck into the net. But by and large, it's two roughly even teams and one is going to get a bounce here or there and one isn't.
The Leafs look like they are playing the type of game that I associate with playoff hockey a bit more than the Bruins. They look more likely to get some greasy goals. The Bruins have a propensity at times to try to skate the puck into the net. But by and large, it's two roughly even teams and one is going to get a bounce here or there and one isn't.
B's also had a chance to close out the division title at home vs. freaking OTT and came out equally as flat as they did yesterday. They were outshot 11-3 in the first period of that game. I'd buy they were tanking intentionally but they ended up outshooting OTT 35-20 including 23-2 in the third which kind of makes it worse to think they weren't intentionally tanking. This came right after a 2-0 shutout loss vs. WAS where they mustered a whopping 16 SOG for the game.
I'm responding to a post in which you call someone childish for disagreeing with your post so glass houses.
The discussion has just been dumb. It's nothing about what has been happening in the series, what has worked well, what has worked poorly. Instead it's a vibe. It's been sports talk radio nonsense.
You can definitely see yourself out the side door if you don't like the conversation.
I’ve made my attitude about whinging clear for years, but what gets me is when the concept of the other team is completely omitted. Should Boston have closed out that series last year? 100% and everyone with that organization wears that shit. But, they lost to a very talented team who got hot goaltending and got on a roll…which can happen.
Did the Bruins win the Cup in 2011 or did the Canucks CHOKE!!! I know it can be both but I’d rather just consider how well the Bruins executed their game plan. It’s kind of like the Blues playing one of the most perfect road games I’ve ever seen in G7.
But what do I know.
Did the Bruins win the Cup in 2011 or did the Canucks CHOKE!!! I know it can be both but I’d rather just consider how well the Bruins executed their game plan. It’s kind of like the Blues playing one of the most perfect road games I’ve ever seen in G7.
But what do I know.
I'm on team kenneycb here... it also helps my metric for a successful season this year was making the playoffs cause that's what I thought their quality was, and then the playoffs are a complete and utter crapshoot of weird puck luck, getting goalied, and guys getting sick at the most inopportune time... it's not like Maurice last year had some amazing insight or data to say "if I switch goalies, we're taking the series"... it was just "well this wasn't working so let's switch and see what happens"... and he was close to having it not workout in several spots that had nothing to do with the goalie switch.
So... it's weird for all this doom and gloom for stuff that hasn't happened... also the Maple Leafs are not some cup cake team that barely made squeaked in on some fluke... they are what consitutes a quality NHL playoff team these days... and this was always going to be a competitive series...
I'm actually going to go with a Leafs podcaster that kept saying "they haven't lost yet" every time the other people on the show with him were going "it's over" "only a matter of time" and he kept saying "series isn't over until you lose 4 games"... some people here you could use that reminder versus trying to prejudge how badly it's all going to fall apart...
Bruins haven't lost this series until they lose 4 games... simple as that...
We are going on what...5 years...since a Boston area team has won a title. So there is some obvious angst out there. All of those parents who named their kids TeeBee Twelve are feeling a bit red in the face now.
Actually- honest question.... have the Bruins priced themselves out of Home Ice advantage, especially for playoffs? I don't know what their rates are compared to other teams... but I feel like Wally from Watertown can't get to a playoff game, and so it becomes like Foxboro.
Actually- honest question.... have the Bruins priced themselves out of Home Ice advantage, especially for playoffs? I don't know what their rates are compared to other teams... but I feel like Wally from Watertown can't get to a playoff game, and so it becomes like Foxboro.
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For the doom & gloomers (and the glass-half-fullers) as well: anyone up for a collective Jimmy Fund bet? If the B's close it out, Doom & Gloom donates; if the B's lose, team Pollyana donates. Whatever dollar value, $10 or $25 or $50. Could also give "odds" - if they lose, we all donate $20, but if they win, you all donate $10. Open to any and all ideas!
If the B's played games 1-3 without Marchand and games 4&5 without Pasta, as much as Pasta is to blame for game 5 but I digress, I'd feel a lot better about their chances even if they were down 3-2 going into game 6 if both players were returning healthy headed back to Boston. TOR played the first 5 games without one of their top 2 players each game, this seems to be going unnoticed. That is typically what happens to the Bs this time of year. The fact the other team was decimated by key injuries and the B's didn't take full advantage is what is most discouraging this series.
NHL playoff tickets are very high in almost every market. And there are plenty of Bruins season ticket holders that are huge fans that go to more playoff games than regular season games.
I honestly think the home problems stem from the shitty ice surface. They practice at Warrior where the ice is perfect, then play at TD on that slushy mess and everything sticks and bounces weird.
Both teams need to deal with the shitty ice, I don't give credence to this.
Let's change the topic for a minute because I'm curious about the goalie situation. I don't think there is any chance I'd take out Sway if I was Monty, but it feels like we should go to Ully in game 6 and then back to Sway if there's a game 7. If they win game 6, you go back to Sway in game 1.
Thanks for the info. I was honestly curious-- and I think you are spot on with the ice issue... especially as we get into warmer weather.
How about we just donate $1, $2 or $5 per Bruins goalie save the rest of the series?
I'll match that - $20 to the JF if they lose the series.
I think you have to play Ullmark, otherwise it basically forces you into playing Sway in game 7 by which point he'll have played 5 straight games.
Slight disagree though on game 1 if they win game 6 - perhaps if Ully wins 6, you give him game 1 as well, then back to Sway in game 2, and go from there, just like this series.
Ullmark in game 6. Swayman game 7 if necessary, and I think it'll be necessary. So I want a fully rested and ready Swayman for that one.
Some Monty quotes today. I do like the passion.
"I'm still pissed off from last night, to be honest," Montgomery said after the Bruins' optional practice. "I don't understand and don't accept our play last night. I'm going to be pissed off until the puck drops [in Game 6]."
"We wanted to review the game and where we went wrong," said Montgomery. "We started talking about where we need to get better. Some of that's physical. Some of it is mental. Some of it is staying in the moment. I don't think we did a good enough job staying in the moment last night. That's what we're looking for [in our] next game."
"There are a lot of discussions that go on, but in the end, I end up making decisions that I was really confident were best for the Boston Bruins," said Montgomery. "And when it doesn't work out, I understand it'll be second-guessed and third-guessed and fourth-guessed. I understand that it comes with the territory. Just like when you make changes, and it works out. It's the same thing. But I'm comfortable with the decisions I made and why I made them, and the criticism that comes with it."
"I'm still pissed off from last night, to be honest," Montgomery said after the Bruins' optional practice. "I don't understand and don't accept our play last night. I'm going to be pissed off until the puck drops [in Game 6]."
"We wanted to review the game and where we went wrong," said Montgomery. "We started talking about where we need to get better. Some of that's physical. Some of it is mental. Some of it is staying in the moment. I don't think we did a good enough job staying in the moment last night. That's what we're looking for [in our] next game."
"There are a lot of discussions that go on, but in the end, I end up making decisions that I was really confident were best for the Boston Bruins," said Montgomery. "And when it doesn't work out, I understand it'll be second-guessed and third-guessed and fourth-guessed. I understand that it comes with the territory. Just like when you make changes, and it works out. It's the same thing. But I'm comfortable with the decisions I made and why I made them, and the criticism that comes with it."
I'm glad he's making these statements, especially the part about being pissed. After the 7-5, game 6 loss last year, the way he opened the post game presser really put a bad taste in my mouth. He opened it by gushing about how great the game was in an almost upbeat fashion. I hate constant macho BS some coaches use(or really in everything), but there are times to be pissed and if there ever was a time for it it was after that game, and it made me question if he had the right demeanor. Glad he's apparently changing that
I jokingly said let’s just go To Game 7 because we know they aren’t winning Game 6. Of course, that means they are winning tonight and ripping the Maple Leafs fans hearts out just as they were getting hope.
Kind of seems appropriate for a classic “Lucy with the football” situation for Leafs fans. Seems set up perfectly. Only thing better would be Marchand with the game winner.
Kind of seems appropriate for a classic “Lucy with the football” situation for Leafs fans. Seems set up perfectly. Only thing better would be Marchand with the game winner.
Right, the Leafs have been just as bad at home as the B's in recent playoff history, if not worse.
I'm guessing you're using NaturalStatTrick or another publicly available data site for the Bergeron numbers above, but the more advanced team XPG numbers were not as kind to him in last season's playoffs. It's true he had a "decent" game 5, with solid counting numbers (Corsi/Fenwick), but his XPG% was right around 50%. And it cratered in the next 2 games to low 30% range. For the 3 games, Bergeron had a 5 on 5 XPG% under 40% and the goals against when he was on the ice were 0 - 4. This from a player, probably my favorite ever, who had an XPG% and G% closer to 65% for his career. It was a terrible way to see him go, injured and ineffective. .
But Stevie (@Smiling Joe Hesketh), you need to take a gummy and lighten up. This year's team was not expected to go anywhere - before the season I thought they'd be sellers at the deadline. But they finished with an unexpectedly wonderful 109 points, and are leading a very talented team in the first round of the playoffs. Everything is gravy at this point. Relax and enjoy the ride, hermano.
This is really it. No matter what happens this team is overachieving.
After a day of calming down, I’m realizing that my angst is just residual anger because of how last year ended. This group doesn’t deserve that. So I’m going to refrain from wasting bandwidth in here until the playoffs are over and I can post with a clear head.
we are all just hoping the bruins close it out on their second chance. Or maybe their third. Because they don't get a hundredth chance...
Expectations have been reset in my mind. Sure they overachieved, but now that they are here, I expect some level of success. You can't keep overachieving in the regular season and then not in the playoffs
And 5 games completely reset your expectations? I more expected them than not to get out of the first round in a hard fought battle with a pretty even team. The second half of that has played out and I'm hoping the first does but am not freaking out if it doesn't. I don't expect them to get much farther than that. If they do, great. I didn't think they'd make the playoffs this year and they almost won the President's Trophy so may be a me thing.
Personally speaking, after game 2 I figured it was going 7. I was pleasantly surprised they won both games in Toronto, so my expectations shifted slightly to closing it out in < 7 games. I'm obviously pissed / disappointed in game 5 (partially because I was there), but if they win tonight, it's all good.
I keep saying this, but I really think last year's team broke me. I can't even try to get angry about them losing, and while I obviously WANT them to win, I kind of don't care if they do because I just figure that I am going to be disappointed in the next round... but I also kind of don't care about that, either.
I still watch, and I still get excited if they do well and upset when they do poorly or get fucked by the refs, and flail in the game thread, but at the end of the day I just don't care outside of the moment.
It's a really weird feeling. Last year I was morose for a week after they lost game 7. This year... I kind of just want it all over with. I don't know if any of this makes sense because I am having a hard time explaining how I feel... and I might be a bad fan because of it, but there it is.
I still watch, and I still get excited if they do well and upset when they do poorly or get fucked by the refs, and flail in the game thread, but at the end of the day I just don't care outside of the moment.
It's a really weird feeling. Last year I was morose for a week after they lost game 7. This year... I kind of just want it all over with. I don't know if any of this makes sense because I am having a hard time explaining how I feel... and I might be a bad fan because of it, but there it is.