Celtics in 18-19

Cesar Crespo

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Agreed, good point, Jaylen will never rack up the assists number. His assist/turnover ratio has always been weak which will prevent him from ever being a max player.

I don't think Jaylen is a "pound the ball in the halfcourt, drain the clock, try to back his guy down and then chuck" black hole ala MaMo/Rozier. He's more of a "get the ball, launch a 3 or drive immediately to the lane, no pass" black hole, at least that's what I see.
Like Corey Maggette or the other guy Jaylen Brown was compared to besides Jimmy Butler. He's never going to be the scorer Dominique was though.
 

Jimbodandy

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around the way
He gave him an elbow for sure. But there is generally some hip check, moving of the legs, shoving an elbow, etc whenever a hard screen is set
It wasn't egregious, agreed. But the elbow and then extending the elbow and taking Marcus most of the way to the floor was unnecessary. I get feeling the need to respond there. If he threw a punch or tried to choke hold him or something, that would be much too much.
 

bakahump

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I had no problems with the retaliation. Though it may have directly or indirectly led to the loss. But I also think that Embiid is a dickhead bully (thats his game, good for him). Doesnt mean you have to put up with dickhead bullies.
 

lovegtm

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I had no problems with the retaliation. Though it may have directly or indirectly led to the loss. But I also think that Embiid is a dickhead bully (thats his game, good for him). Doesnt mean you have to put up with dickhead bullies.
I'm pretty down with the idea that if you endanger a guy's season by intentionally throwing an elbow at his head (look at what happened to Hayward just from a clean screen), he can endanger yours by sucker-pushing your fragile 7-2 body. I think it's systemically healthy that Embiid now has to worry a tiny bit extra about those precious legs of his the next time he throws an elbow at a dude's head (and then talks trash about it).
 

nighthob

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That screen was what about half of all screens look like in the NBA. Smart way overreacted
Half the screens in the NBA don’t involve elbows to the head, no. Embiid also gives way too many of those cheap shots out. I bet half the guards in the NBA gave out a shout for Smart when he shoved Embiid to the ground.

Embiid really is the modern Dwight Howard, here’s hoping he wins just as many titles over the course of his career.
 

JCizzle

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He didn't elbow him anywhere near his head
It was totally unnecessary to stick out the elbow at all in that situation. He's getting the DWade treatment where people like him because he's engaging, but ignore that he's dirty as hell (not you, but the announcers)
 

In my lifetime

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Welcome back, Greg Monroe on a 10 day contract. With most of the big men out for a couple of games, you are going to be quite busy.
 

InstaFace

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Smart's disdain for Joel Embiid cost him $50k. The process is pretty damn expensive.
As lovegtm said a different way above, if it puts some hesitation into the mind of Embiid that the next bit of bullshit aggression might result in actual violence to him, the whole team ought to split the cost of Smart's fine. If not the whole league.

There was a fraction of a second, as Embiid charged at him but before he got into the whole "hold me back!" nonsense, where I thought he was actually gonna take a swing at Smart and start some real, Artest-grade shit. But no, he was just trolling, just wanted to look tough. I think enough people saw exactly how tough a guy he is and they're not going to forget it, or (let's hope) let him forget it either.
 

nighthob

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There was a fraction of a second, as Embiid charged at him but before he got into the whole "hold me back!" nonsense, where I thought he was actually gonna take a swing at Smart and start some real, Artest-grade shit. But no, he was just trolling, just wanted to look tough. I think enough people saw exactly how tough a guy he is and they're not going to forget it, or (let's hope) let him forget it either.
He wasn’t even heading at Smart, he was clearly running towards his teammates for the faux tough guy act. One of these days he’s going to elbow someone on a team with a big third string C who’s going to come into the game and stomp on his foot.
 

InstaFace

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He wasn’t even heading at Smart, he was clearly running towards his teammates for the faux tough guy act. One of these days he’s going to elbow someone on a team with a big third string C who’s going to come into the game and stomp on his foot.


"oh, did *I* do that?"
 

DeadlySplitter

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the blase attitude and dysfunctional play is what I'm going to remember from this group, when I'm trying to forget them after a round 1 loss to the Oladipo-less Pacers.
 

JCizzle

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Can someone explain to me why Brad only ever holds Jaylen accountable for poor play? Tatum has been ass lately and is running around for 37 min while Jaylen still can't buy a start. Guys like Rozier and Morris are constantly playing outside the system. There's a reason why people are hating on them.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Can someone explain to me why Brad only ever holds Jaylen accountable for poor play? Tatum has been ass lately and is running around for 37 min while Jaylen still can't buy a start. Guys like Rozier and Morris are constantly playing outside the system. There's a reason why people are hating on them.
The extra fascinating part of it is that this one piece of coaching he did this season—pulling back on Jaylen when he was struggling—has had a positive impact! Yes, hitting the outside shot consistently is a big part of that improvement, but you watch him play and it’s clear that his focus catch and shoot open threes, attack closeouts, or post up, and if it’s not there, MOVE THE BALL.

So maybe, I dunno, stop sending the message to every other player that there’s no bad shots.

Also, the dirty little secret re: Brown vs Tatum is that Brown’s first step blows Tatum’s out of the water. If Tatum had it we wouldn’t be talking about all the Kobeball because he would just live at the rim all the time.
 

lovegtm

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The extra fascinating part of it is that this one piece of coaching he did this season—pulling back on Jaylen when he was struggling—has had a positive impact! Yes, hitting the outside shot consistently is a big part of that improvement, but you watch him play and it’s clear that his focus catch and shoot open threes, attack closeouts, or post up, and if it’s not there, MOVE THE BALL.

So maybe, I dunno, stop sending the message to every other player that there’s no bad shots.

Also, the dirty little secret re: Brown vs Tatum is that Brown’s first step blows Tatum’s out of the water. If Tatum had it we wouldn’t be talking about all the Kobeball because he would just live at the rim all the time.
This is perfect—gets at the heart of my criticism of the team’s handling of Brown. They hold him to a weirdly different standard than everyone else. I’m fine disciplining his game, but they seem unwilling to do it for anyone else, except in rare circumstances.
 

InstaFace

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Can someone explain to me why Brad only ever holds Jaylen accountable for poor play? Tatum has been ass lately and is running around for 37 min while Jaylen still can't buy a start. Guys like Rozier and Morris are constantly playing outside the system. There's a reason why people are hating on them.
Preserving Tatum's asset value for the summer. You demote him from the starting lineup, people ask the wrong kinds of questions.
 

BigSoxFan

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A pretty meaningless late season game against CHA without Horford and Hayward doesn't tell us too much in terms of turning it on when needed.
Games like last night won’t be meaningless if the Celtics don’t get the 4 seed. That extra game at home could be very important come playoff time.

And they blew an 18 point lead with 8 mins to go. That is troubling.
 

lovegtm

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I think the best way to say it, at this point, is that if they can get everyone healthy and summon the focus they’ve shown at times, they can make a deep run. Every team in the league is showing flaws and letdowns this year.

The odds they are able to find that focus and rhythm? Probably 20-30%.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is perfect—gets at the heart of my criticism of the team’s handling of Brown. They hold him to a weirdly different standard than everyone else. I’m fine disciplining his game, but they seem unwilling to do it for anyone else, except in rare circumstances.
I don't understand how anyone can criticize Brad of how he's handled Jaylen when the player has clearly responded to the techniques that the coaching staff have used to motivate him. This seems a strange thing to pick on considering how successful it has been.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Games like last night won’t be meaningless if the Celtics don’t get the 4 seed. That extra game at home could be very important come playoff time.

And they blew an 18 point lead with 8 mins to go. That is troubling.
If we need home court in a Game 7 to get past Indiana nothing else was going to matter anyway.
 

nighthob

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I suspect the bigger fear, at this point, is getting past Philadelphia on the road in round one.
 

JCizzle

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I don't understand how anyone can criticize Brad of how he's handled Jaylen when the player has clearly responded to the techniques that the coaching staff have used to motivate him. This seems a strange thing to pick on considering how successful it has been.
I think we're all confused why it's still happening now that we're passed the lull and he's playing great. At some point it has to be discouraging to JB that he's not starting AND playing less minutes than guys he's playing better than. It's not just Brad's handling of Jaylen, but his failure to handle anyone else.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think we're all confused why it's still happening now that we're passed the lull and he's playing great. At some point it has to be discouraging that he's not starting AND playing less minutes than guys he's been playing better than. It's just just Brad's handling of Jaylen, but his failure to handle anyone else.
Who is he playing significantly less than? Over the last 6 games, Jaylen's minutes have been 31, 32, 26, 20, 28, and 30. The game he only played 20 was against the Nuggets "twin towers" when Baynes and Horford saw the floor together for a bit while Jaylen was lethargic on both ends making either dumb mistakes or not exerting effort. I'm just not sure what is confusing about his usage......he's found his niche and is performing at a high level while playing starter minutes.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't understand how anyone can criticize Brad of how he's handled Jaylen when the player has clearly responded to the techniques that the coaching staff have used to motivate him. This seems a strange thing to pick on considering how successful it has been.
Anyone can criticize Stevens - its part of the deal. However if people are being perfectly honest, they are doing so with almost no information about specific player status (physical or mental state), locker room culture or what Ainge's input/influence is on rotations etc..

To be crystal clear, Stevens and Ainge are not above being questioned, especially given the up and down nature of the season. However as a casual fan, I feel like I am ill qualified to weigh in on how the team is run given my lack of information about what is really going on with players and management.

I know others disagree. Unless they have professional coaching experience and an insight into team dynamics, its hard to take them more seriously than the garden variety rantings of your average frustrated fan.
 

JCizzle

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Who is he playing significantly less than? Over the last 6 games, Jaylen's minutes have been 31, 32, 26, 20, 28, and 30. The game he only played 20 was against the Nuggets "twin towers" when Baynes and Horford saw the floor together for a bit while Jaylen was lethargic on both ends making either dumb mistakes or not exerting effort. I'm just not sure what is confusing about his usage......he's found his niche and is performing at a high level while playing starter minutes.
As an example, if you give either five or six of the extra minutes that Morris/Tatum played yesterday to Brown, we likely win the game. Particularly Tatum who was brutal, yet logged a team high in minutes.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I don't understand how anyone can criticize Brad of how he's handled Jaylen when the player has clearly responded to the techniques that the coaching staff have used to motivate him. This seems a strange thing to pick on considering how successful it has been.
The post you quoted and mine preceding it are pretty clearly not about the handling of Brown but rather the non-handling of anybody else.
 

bigq

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Every team in the league is showing flaws and letdowns this year.
This is where I am at. There is not a truly dominant team this year and every team has flaws. Anything can happen in the playoffs and if the Celtics play their best in the postseason they will be right in the mix. I’m with Kyrie. Screw the regular season. Let’s get the playoffs started and see where things go.
 

benhogan

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Who is he playing significantly less than? Over the last 6 games, Jaylen's minutes have been 31, 32, 26, 20, 28, and 30. The game he only played 20 was against the Nuggets "twin towers" when Baynes and Horford saw the floor together for a bit while Jaylen was lethargic on both ends making either dumb mistakes or not exerting effort. I'm just not sure what is confusing about his usage......he's found his niche and is performing at a high level while playing starter minutes.
Brown being the #1 or 2 scoring option off the bench is the right spot for him, more minutes for JB would be a good thing (with less Rozier/MaMo).

More importantly, when do you come around to the dominant Al Horford/Aron Baynes pairing?
Even Brad has recently conceded defeat on this season long tactical misstep.
 

NomarsFool

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Here's what I don't understand, what is the point of sitting Marcus Smart with 5 fouls and 2 minutes to go in the game? Yes, I understand there's a risk he could foul out. So? I'd rather have Marcus Smart and his 5 fouls on the court than Terry Rozier.
 

kazuneko

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Here's what I don't understand, what is the point of sitting Marcus Smart with 5 fouls and 2 minutes to go in the game? Yes, I understand there's a risk he could foul out. So? I'd rather have Marcus Smart and his 5 fouls on the court than Terry Rozier.
Yes, that was a bad coaching decision and it was just one of many. With the team in meltdown mode and one timeout left, why the heck didn't Brad call a timeout before the Cs last, significant possession with 23 seconds remaining (down by 3)? Instead he chooses to let them play and the team responds with Terry Rozier bringing up the ball and heaving a wild, turn-around 3-pointer that clangs off the rim. In the end the Cs went their last 4 significant (excluding their last, when the game was already lost), possessions with one pass.
I know Brad has built up a lot of good will in this city, but I think there needs to more questioning of not only some of his in-game decision making but also his leadership. While Terry deserves a good amount of the blame for his horrible decision to take that 3 pointer, it also falls on Brad that his players consistently make bad decisions in crunchtime. I mean, we all know that is not a play that Brad could have been happy with, and that he was almost certainly, similarly frustrated with the two deep 3-point attempts from Kyrie that preceded it. So why do his players keep making these boneheaded decisions? They had the equivalent of a timeout at 1:31 remaining (the referees reviewed an out of bounds call) and Brad took a time out with 41 seconds left. I think it's safe to assume that Brad preached team basketball, and chastised them about the hero-ball they were playing. They then responded with the ridiculous Rozier play.
I think at some point you have to wonder if this team has just tuned Brad out....
 
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HomeRunBaker

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More importantly, when do you come around to the dominant Al Horford/Aron Baynes pairing?
Even Brad has recently conceded defeat on this season long tactical misstep.
I have always been in favor of it when the matchups dictate it. The way teams run their stuff today those opportunities aren't often but when they are Brad has used this pair effectively as the numbers indicate. Even against the Nuggets two bigs Brad was forced to change it up because we were so slow closing out on the 3-pt shooters in their 2nd half run.

What I've always laughed at was the insinuation that playing the 5 "wears down" Horford as if he's playing out of position or something or that he's best utilized chasing wings out beyond the arc.
 

jaytftwofive

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Forget this year folks. This has been one of the most disappointing seasons for a team that was hyped up so much as the best in the east and everyone picking them to go to the finals. Oh maybe they beat Indy in first round but that's about it. And this is not like 2010 with a less then stellar regular season to a team that came within 4 points and a missing center of winning it all. That team was a veteran team.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Forget this year folks. This has been one of the most disappointing seasons for a team that was hyped up so much as the best in the east and everyone picking them to go to the finals. Oh maybe they beat Indy in first round but that's about it. And this is not like 2010 with a less then stellar regular season to a team that came within 4 points and a missing center of winning it all. That team was a veteran team.
I agree. The sample size is big enough now and I don’t see how they make it out of the second round. They just seem incapable of playing well together. Legitimately depressing after last year and the crazy optimism we all had coming into the season.
 

BigSoxFan

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I agree. The sample size is big enough now and I don’t see how they make it out of the second round. They just seem incapable of playing well together. Legitimately depressing after last year and the crazy optimism we all had coming into the season.
Why are we assuming they’ll make it out of the first round?
 

tbrown_01923

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agreed - the combination of their performance and their un-root-ability... not a compelling team and not worth my time.
 

Montana Fan

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Somebody mentioned a rebuild around Smart, Tatum and Brown. I’m for a rebuild around Kyrie, Horford, Smart, Tatum, Hayward and Brown. I don’t have the insight to see how any one of these guys wouldn’t be a good teammate. They all seem to be good guys and good players. Let’s start with them and see if we can upgrade Center, PF and SG around them.
 

benhogan

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I have always been in favor of it when the matchups dictate it. The way teams run their stuff today those opportunities aren't often but when they are Brad has used this pair effectively as the numbers indicate. Even against the Nuggets two bigs Brad was forced to change it up because we were so slow closing out on the 3-pt shooters in their 2nd half run.

What I've always laughed at was the insinuation that playing the 5 "wears down" Horford as if he's playing out of position or something or that he's best utilized chasing wings out beyond the arc.
Ok, you've softened a hair, I'll take it. But in no way, shape or form has Brad used it effectively. I could easily spell the numbers out for you but you know this, so I'm not wasting the time.

Come on, Al getting worn down to a "nub" was some solid SoSH hyperbole;)
 
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benhogan

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Somebody mentioned a rebuild around Smart, Tatum and Brown. I’m for a rebuild around Kyrie, Horford, Smart, Tatum, Hayward and Brown. I don’t have the insight to see how any one of these guys wouldn’t be a good teammate. They all seem to be good guys and good players. Let’s start with them and see if we can upgrade Center, PF and SG around them.
That was me.

I'd love for Kyrie to return, if he "doesn't take his talents elsewhere". Along with Al Horford at the 4/5 and a healthier Gordon Hayward. Sign a veteran, defense-first PF would help. Fill out 11-15 on the bench with draft picks, unless one plays up into the rotation.

Mamo/Rozier leaving and being replaced by some young, hungry players would be welcomed change. MaMo is defensively inept and Rozier isn't interested in being a bench piece.
 

nighthob

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Somebody mentioned a rebuild around Smart, Tatum and Brown. I’m for a rebuild around Kyrie, Horford, Smart, Tatum, Hayward and Brown. I don’t have the insight to see how any one of these guys wouldn’t be a good teammate. They all seem to be good guys and good players. Let’s start with them and see if we can upgrade Center, PF and SG around them.
I understand the sentiment, but I suspect that Irving and Durant have their own plans, and Boston probably doesn’t have a lot of choices in the matter. Their best case scenario is that they decide to team up here.

After that I think their best case scenario is if Irving and Durant decide on the Clippers, because at least then LA would be amenable to a sign & trade to clear Gallinari off their roster and Boston pick up a future first in the transaction.