BBWAA Awards Week 2018

cheekydave

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Jun 11, 2004
3,134
Bohoken
I never could understand why athere were so many folks, albeit mostly NY fans, making the argument that Andujar should win. To me it was a clear cut easy decision, and looked like the Baseball writers felt the same way. Joel Sherman voted for Ohtani, Im not sure who the other NY writer was. Andujar is a TREMENDOUS hitter, but a butcher at third. That matters.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,305
I never could understand why athere were so many folks, albeit mostly NY fans, making the argument that Andujar should win. To me it was a clear cut easy decision, and looked like the Baseball writers felt the same way. Joel Sherman voted for Ohtani, Im not sure who the other NY writer was. Andujar is a TREMENDOUS hitter, but a butcher at third. That matters.
Also, I'm not sure most people realize how huge a year Ohtani had offensively. He might have been the best hitter in baseball from August 1st on. Yeah it was only 326 at bats total, but that's a pretty good amount when you consider he was also pitching for 2 months. Based on rate stats Ohtani crushed Andujar this year. He ended the year with a 926 ops, which would have tied for 5th in the AL if he qualified.
 

santadevil

wears depends
Silver Supporter
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Aug 1, 2006
6,472
Saskatchestan
Votes are fully disclosed, so we can make fun of the one TB guy who voted a TB reliever 3rd, among other things.
Dick Scanlon, who voted Andujar, Wendle and Yarbrough.
I went searching and the first article I clicked on of his, had an edit at the bottom stating "An earlier version of this report, spelled Bryce Harper's last name incorrectly"...so I guess that's all we need to know about him
 

Sad Sam Jones

Member
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May 5, 2017
2,496
Mikako Niwa of Sankei Sports, who has credentials from the Dodgers, wasn't much better with his ballot. He's responsible for Buehler's only 1st place vote, and also went "reverse Scanlon", obviously giving D-Backs setup man Yoshihisa Hirano his 3rd place vote simply for being Japanese. Hirano had a successful year, but was by no stretch of the imagination as dominant a player as Juan Soto, who Niwa left off his ballot. Niwa seems to have no presence on English language sites.

*
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
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Jul 15, 2005
70,735
Yankee fans indignant about Ohtani over Andujar are hilarious, it’s like they can’t wrap their head around all of the factors at once (both at the plate, Ohtani’s 50 innings of great pitching, Andujar’s horrendous defense).
 

Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
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Feb 16, 2006
6,132
There
Mikako Niwa of Sankei Sports, who has credentials from the Dodgers, wasn't much better with his ballot. He's responsible for Buehler's only 1st place vote, and also went "reverse Scanlon", obviously giving D-Backs setup man Yoshihisa Hirano his 3rd place vote simply for being Japanese. Hirano had a successful year, but was by no stretch of the imagination as dominant a player as Juan Soto, who Niwa left off his ballot. Niwa seems to have no presence on English language sites.

*
I know you’re likely just relying on the other English language reporting out there but FYI Mikako Niwa is a woman.
 

hbk72777

Member
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Jul 19, 2005
1,945
I never could understand why athere were so many folks, albeit mostly NY fans, making the argument that Andujar should win. To me it was a clear cut easy decision, and looked like the Baseball writers felt the same way. Joel Sherman voted for Ohtani, Im not sure who the other NY writer was. Andujar is a TREMENDOUS hitter, but a butcher at third. That matters.

The only problem I have is when they consider Japanese players to be rookies

Ichiro was
Matsui wasn't
Ohtani is

Pick a damn side and stick with it
 

Dahabenzapple2

Mr. McGuire / Axl's Counter
SoSH Member
Jun 20, 2011
8,926
Wayne, NJ
Yankee fans indignant about Ohtani over Andujar are hilarious, it’s like they can’t wrap their head around all of the factors at once (both at the plate, Ohtani’s 50 innings of great pitching, Andujar’s horrendous defense).
I had 3 of them whining loudly this A.M.

Of course they wouldn't listen one bit to my logic. They are in pretty complete denial about Andujar's defense.
 

BoSox Rule

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Jul 15, 2005
2,343
The only problem I have is when they consider Japanese players to be rookies

Ichiro was
Matsui wasn't
Ohtani is

Pick a damn side and stick with it
Matsui finished 2nd in the voting. By bWAR he was 5th, and by fWAR he was barely replacement level because of defense. He probably got a fairer shake in the voting than he deserved.
 

Dahabenzapple2

Mr. McGuire / Axl's Counter
SoSH Member
Jun 20, 2011
8,926
Wayne, NJ
Did you ask them if his defense is adequate, why did NY pull him out of every postseason game as soon as possible?
I'm lucky (or unlucky) that they even talk to me. My co-worker who is usually most rational about all things baseball cannot get past the fact that Ohtani played "half a season" which is a pretty strong exaggeration.

He tries to equate Andujar's defense to Devers which as we saw in the Series (and will see more as Devers (who is 18 months younger) grows into the position) which I think is pretty well agreed upon that Devers has a chance to be at least average at third while I think it pretty much thought that Andujar will not be able to stick at third.

Real question - or answer - is that Yankees would trade Andujar in an instant for Devers
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,305
Do many yankee fans seriously believe that MLB hates them and therefore writers don't vote for them just because they're yankees? Not saying anyone on this board thinks that, but there are hundreds of comments on fb and twitter that Andujar, among other yankees over the last few years, lost just because they wear pinstripes.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
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Oct 20, 2015
33,253
Melvin won in the AL, Cora a respectable 2nd. Link above

upload_2018-11-13_18-53-18.png

Cora & Melvin were entirely left off of one ballot each. Both of those ballots fully accounted for Boone's votes.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,487
108 wins in his first year, and only got 7 1sts? What does he have to do?

Counsell got robbed, too.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,487

Sad Sam Jones

Member
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May 5, 2017
2,496
The only problem I have is when they consider Japanese players to be rookies

Ichiro was
Matsui wasn't
Ohtani is

Pick a damn side and stick with it
Considering the award was dominated by negro league veterans for its first decade of existence, and has been named the Jackie Robinson Award for over 30 years now, it couldn't be any more clear that anyone who qualifies as a rookie in Major League Baseball is eligible for the award. MLB hasn't left it open to personal interpretation regardless of how one feels about it. If a BBWAA member wants to ignore those rules they should lose their right to vote on it again.

*
 

charlieoscar

Member
Sep 28, 2014
1,339
They're evenly distributed (by team) except that one of the Angels writers who has a vote, works for a newspaper based in Japan. (Due to S. Ohtani, I guess). That writer omitted Cora from the ballot.
And one of the KC writers also writes for the LA Times.
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
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Jul 10, 2002
13,633
Springfield, VA
I'd have given it to Cash over Melvin.
I agree, getting the Rays to 90 wins, in the toughest division in baseball, after shedding so much talent in the past 12 months is really remarkable. Not to mention the way that he juggled the pitching staff all year and getting everyone to buy in.

Cora/Cash were so clearly the two most deserving to me that I'm shocked only one of the the thirty voted that way.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
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Jul 15, 2005
70,735
I agree, getting the Rays to 90 wins, in the toughest division in baseball, after shedding so much talent in the past 12 months is really remarkable. Not to mention the way that he juggled the pitching staff all year and getting everyone to buy in.

Cora/Cash were so clearly the two most deserving to me that I'm shocked only one of the the thirty voted that way.
OAK lost six of their top seven SPs for the season from their initial depth chart and had the lowest payroll in baseball, yet still finished with 97 wins and the best record in baseball from mid-June on.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
And Cora did something that like only 8 teams in history have done--108 wins.

Unimportant in the big picture, but it's the offseason.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
And Cora did something that like only 8 teams in history have done--108 wins.

Unimportant in the big picture, but it's the offseason.
I love the Sox and am grateful for their wonderful season, but the numbers are so high because Toronto and Baltimore had really bad years. And the Sox were wonderful, but. . . .
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
I love the Sox and am grateful for their wonderful season, but the numbers are so high because Toronto and Baltimore had really bad years. And the Sox were wonderful, but. . . .
Toronto won 73 games. That's not good, but it's not ridiculously low. And why isn't it that Baltimore had a really bad year because the Sox were so good? There are bad teams every year and only a handful have won 108 games. If Sox had

It's not like the Sox stumbled through the postseason when they played good teams.

The Sox against non-Baltimore teams were 92-51--that's still a winning percentage that gets you to 104 wins.
 

Average Reds

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Sep 24, 2007
35,330
Southwestern CT
Melvin certainly was deserving, but Cash literally revolutionized baseball with the "Opener" concept. That's something new to baseball which may become a huge part of the game going forward.
Melvin, Cash or Cora could have won. I would probably have given a slight edge to Cash over Melvin, but I can understand those who went the other way. Oakland had a hell of a year and their amazing second half coincided with Melvin having to manage his ass off due to injuries.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
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And Cora did something that like only 8 teams in history have done--108 wins.

Unimportant in the big picture, but it's the offseason.
The Sox had the highest payroll. That is always going to make this award very hard to win.

I love the Sox and am grateful for their wonderful season, but the numbers are so high because Toronto and Baltimore had really bad years. And the Sox were wonderful, but. . . .
This is ridiculous. Straight from Shaunessey
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,305
I agree, getting the Rays to 90 wins, in the toughest division in baseball, after shedding so much talent in the past 12 months is really remarkable. Not to mention the way that he juggled the pitching staff all year and getting everyone to buy in.

Cora/Cash were so clearly the two most deserving to me that I'm shocked only one of the the thirty voted that way.
Oakland won 97 games in the actual toughest division in baseball. Having the Orioles be almost historically bad propped up the top 3 team win totals big time.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
This is ridiculous. Straight from Shaunessey
I haven't read him in about 10 years. Is that how you spell his name?
Toronto won 73 games. That's not good, but it's not ridiculously low. And why isn't it that Baltimore had a really bad year because the Sox were so good? There are bad teams every year and only a handful have won 108 games. If Sox had

It's not like the Sox stumbled through the postseason when they played good teams.

The Sox against non-Baltimore teams were 92-51--that's still a winning percentage that gets you to 104 wins.
OK, you may be right, but both of those teams looked bad whenever I saw them on mlb.tv, not just against the Sox. My remarks were not aimed against the Sox' excellence, but merely reflected on the extreme # of the wins, which, in my opinion, is not the reason Cora should have won. He should have won because of his brilliant transformation of the Sox into a base-running team, because of his management of the pitching despite the absence of his Ace pitcher for significant periods of time, and because of his handling of the players to prevent their wearing themselves out. Etc.
p.s. I preferred Cash, for the reason Lose gave above, but have no quarrel with Melvin winning either.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,487
Boston is a much tougher market to manage in than Oakland and Tampa. It seems the voters didn't account for that.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
Boston is a much tougher market to manage in than Oakland and Tampa. It seems the voters didn't account for that.
But how tough is it at the moment, when the team is so good and the new manager was welcomed with open arms? I don't listen to the 'EEI vileness and I can't access the Glob, so I don't know.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
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Oct 20, 2015
33,253
Snell managed to overcome the Rays enigma and win the AL Cy Young. It was a bit closer than it should have been over Verlander. https://bbwaa.com/18-al-cy/

Sale was actually 4th and pretty close to 3rd behind Kluber, a credit to the quality of his innings despite so few of them relatively.

Bill Madden of the TB news is the weirdest vote. Treinen 3rd, Verlander 4th, Severino(!) 5th.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
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Aug 21, 2006
35,627
Maui
Snell managed to overcome the Rays enigma and win the AL Cy Young. It was a bit closer than it should have been over Verlander. https://bbwaa.com/18-al-cy/

Sale was actually 4th and pretty close to 3rd behind Kluber, a credit to the quality of his innings despite so few of them relatively.
Snell deserved it. Little bit surprised by Sale in 4th but "shrugs shoulders", whatever; a World Series Trophy is still better if you ask Chris Sale.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
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Dec 8, 2005
58,878
San Andreas Fault
Ron Darling said we’re going into a new era re the CY award (Degrom with just 10 wins probably, or should win). Well, King Felix started that new era in 2010 winning with his 13-12 record.