The Game Goat Thread: Week 3 at Detroit

ehaz

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Belichick, McDaniels, Hogan.

The roster construction is bad, playcalling was inexcusable, and not a single receiver could get seperation.
 

Super Nomario

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What grosses me out is how ineffective the run O and run D have been. They are returning 4/5 starters on the OL, the interior guys are in their primes, they used a first on a RB, and they can't pick up a 3rd-and-1 to save their lives. Detroit entered the game allowing 5.6 yards per carry and they dominated the Pats OL up front. It was embarrassing. And the other side of the ball was just as bad. They've invested resources in the interior DL - a third for (one year of) Shelton, a first on Malcom Brown, decent money to Guy, and they got blown off the ball by Detroit's pretty good OL. We know those guys can't pass rush, but if they can't defend the run either what are they doing on the team?
 

BigSoxFan

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1) Defense - zero talent and zero ability to make things even remotely difficult for opposing offenses. Somehow a defense that got scorched by Nick Foles got worse. I hate everyone except Gilmore.

2) McDaniels - spent far too many plays trying to get his new mediocre RB on track. Offense had some terrible play calls, notably that stretch run on 3rd and short.

3) WRs - what the hell is wrong with Hogan? He was running all around Philly in the SB and now can’t do shit against anyone. We know his limitations but he doesn’t even look like a functional WR anymore. Dorsett had his chance with Brady and it just isn’t working. Patterson is literally useless on offense. I sure hope Edelman is ok. Gordon will be helpful when Brady goes into “fuck it” mode. I’d be curious to see what Coleman has.

4) Brady - he was awful from the opening play tonight. Overlooked White countless times, had bad footwork, made poor decisions, and just flat out looked defeated. I don’t want to say the end is near just yet but....this is how I pictured it. The next few weeks will tell us all we need to know. In any event, I think this is either his last year or next to last year.

5) Belichick the GM - talent level on this team is garbage. I don’t mind the Wynn pick but Sony Michel at 31 was a luxury this team couldn’t afford. LB group is the worst unit in the NFL out of any position.
 

twibnotes

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D: everyone

O: Michel. I know that's harsh, but they made him a huge part of the offense, and he was lousy. Terrible vision, bad hands.
 

RedOctober3829

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What grosses me out is how ineffective the run O and run D have been. They are returning 4/5 starters on the OL, the interior guys are in their primes, they used a first on a RB, and they can't pick up a 3rd-and-1 to save their lives. Detroit entered the game allowing 5.6 yards per carry and they dominated the Pats OL up front. It was embarrassing. And the other side of the ball was just as bad. They've invested resources in the interior DL - a third for (one year of) Shelton, a first on Malcom Brown, decent money to Guy, and they got blown off the ball by Detroit's pretty good OL. We know those guys can't pass rush, but if they can't defend the run either what are they doing on the team?
When a team gets dominated up front, it’s so depressing. Guys were getting blown off the ball 4 yards. Ragnow and Glasgow completely beat the shit out of Brown, Guy, and Shelton. Their RBs aren’t getting touched 5 yards down the field. You can’t just look at film and fix that. It’s either you can do it or you can’t. That’s what feels so different than in years past when the D struggled. Last year it was miscommunication in the secondary which got straightened out. This year they can’t stop the run nor the pass so where do they start first?
 

Ale Xander

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Pretty much everyone except Gronk, White, Wise, and I guess Gordon, were net-negatives.
 

soxhop411

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Do you have confidence offense can turn things around?
Brady: “We’ll see. ... we all have to get back to work at look at ourselves to see what we have to do.”

From tonights PC

Via Zack Cox

-Tom Brady on James White, who had the Patriots’ lone touchdown tonight: “He’s got to be involved. The guys who can make plays, those are the ones who should be involved.”
 
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Ale Xander

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3) WRs - what the hell is wrong with Hogan? He was running all around Philly in the SB and now can’t do shit against anyone. We know his limitations but he doesn’t even look like a functional WR anymore. Dorsett had his chance with Brady and it just isn’t working. Patterson is literally useless on offense. I sure hope Edelman is ok. Gordon will be helpful when Brady goes into “fuck it” mode. I’d be curious to see what Coleman has.
He really isn't that talented. When's the 4th or 5th option and people sleep on him, then he can be effective. A #1 WR, no way.

Oh, and Coleman was dumped to make room for Gordon. I'd rather they cut someone else quite frankly.
 

RedOctober3829

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That quote on White is not what it seems. He was asked about the skill players and whoever asked the question mentioned White. So Brady said yes he should be involved. It wasn’t a malicious shot at anyone.
 

Rico Guapo

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Generally: Interior OL/DL, they got owned by the Lions at the LOS on both sides of the ball.

- Shelton, for someone that big, strong, and athletic...he can't maintain a gap to save his fucking life.
- Hightower, looks slow, caught out of place on several key plays because he made bad reads.
- Clayborn, got caught inside repeatedly on plays to the outside, couldn't get to Stafford. Looks old and washed up.
- Everyone on offense not named James White/Rob Gronkowski.
 

SMU_Sox

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The front seven, wide receivers, both lines actually. They can’t defend the run or the pass. Shelton used to be good against the run too, at least he did that. Slow, big but not dominant, and lack of talent. Ooph. I say this to blow off some steam but it’s easier to find top tier talent if we end up picking closer to the middle.
 

Soxy

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He really isn't that talented. When's the 4th or 5th option and people sleep on him, then he can be effective. A #1 WR, no way.

Oh, and Coleman was dumped to make room for Gordon. I'd rather they cut someone else quite frankly.
They signed Coleman to the practice squad after they cut him. Given the sorry state of the WR corps, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him back on the active roster at some point this season.
 

jp9183

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Brady- He looked like a 41 year old QB tonight. It’s not the WRs. He did more with less in 2006.

O-Line- Completely dominated all game

Pretty much the entire defense just trash.

Honorable mention- The decision to leave Gordon inactive. Unless he physically couldn’t do there was no reason for this. If he just runs simplified routes. It makes it harder to double Gronk.
 

Ale Xander

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They signed Coleman to the practice squad after they cut him. Given the sorry state of the WR corps, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him back on the active roster at some point this season.
Thanks! Missed that (and didn't think 3rd years were eligible anyway)

Yeah wouldn't be surprised at all.
 

Marciano490

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This is weird. It’s like watching another team. Michel has been disappointing; he looks like a boy among men.
 

IdiotKicker

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I wonder if the issue with Michel is that he just doesn’t have his timing yet after missing the summer. I can count a half dozen times where it looked like there was a hole forming, and he either didn’t read the block correctly, or just barreled into contact instead of sneaking through like you’d expect a competent back to do. Didn’t see any lateral agility to jump cut or stick his foot in the ground and change direction. Maybe it’ll come, but just strange to see.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I wonder if the issue with Michel is that he just doesn’t have his timing yet after missing the summer. I can count a half dozen times where it looked like there was a hole forming, and he either didn’t read the block correctly, or just barreled into contact instead of sneaking through like you’d expect a competent back to do. Didn’t see any lateral agility to jump cut or stick his foot in the ground and change direction. Maybe it’ll come, but just strange to see.
I think this is what it is. He's flashed some ability at times, and he missed most of camp and preseason. Of all of the things to be concerned about right now, this doesn't make my list.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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So, so many times the runner got the corner and turned upfield. Linebackers are just too slow to be competitive. Hightower just looked awful. Not sure how they fix that...
 

NortheasternPJ

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A few years ago they were better without Brady, than without Edelman this year. I doubt JE will add as big a boost upon his return.
I fully disagree. If Edelman is ready, he makes all the difference in this offense. They can double team Gronk all day, get Edelman on the field, that frees up Hogan and Dorsett and the rest. If Gordan can make any difference, which I'm very much not counting on, this offense is completely reinvented in Week 5.

So, so many times the runner got the corner and turned upfield. Linebackers are just too slow to be competitive. Hightower just looked awful. Not sure how they fix that...
They are so slow. There were a few plays tonight that they were in the right place and made the right play they were just too damn slow to catch anyone.

This is weird. It’s like watching another team. Michel has been disappointing; he looks like a boy among men.
He was horrid in the first half and the play calling to him was just as bad. Josh throw that sweep play in the trash. He did have some good runs in third quarter though which was a plus.
 

koufax32

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GM BB and Michel are the goats here. As someone in the game thread put it, this is a combination of the 2006 and 2009 teams.

My opinion of Wise grew three sizes though. He saw what was happening and worked his tail off all while trying to rally the troops. Of course, the troops just stared at him, blinking. At least he recognized what needed to be done.
 

j44thor

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I think this is what it is. He's flashed some ability at times, and he missed most of camp and preseason. Of all of the things to be concerned about right now, this doesn't make my list.
His usage is a big concern. They are force feeding him the ball despite the fact he appears right now to be a jag as a runner and below average catching the ball. If he was a UDFA playing like that there is 0.0% chance he would be getting the touches he is. I can't recall another time the Pats forced a player to be used as much as they are with Michel.

I understand having a run heavy game plan going in because DET couldn't stop anyone first two weeks but once it was evident it wasn't working they needed to turn to Rex and esp White more. Brady in his post-game had a pointed comment about getting playmakers more involved and specifically called out White as a playmaker.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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I get that Michel stinks, but they just don't have the personnel. Burkhead is coming off a concussion, and has difficulty staying healthy. They dress three mediocre to poor receivers. The only talent for Brady is Gronk and White, and that is just not good enough. The decisions to move on from Cooks (somewhat understandable) and Lewis (highly questionable) has really hurt them and has left them desperately relying on JE and Gordon. Unfortunately the defense is in worse shape.
 

Van Everyman

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It’s almost like spending all offseason trying to figure out whether your two best players might retire isn’t good for the team.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence a lot of the glue guys like Bolden and Amendola left this offseason. These weren’t elite players and certainly would be worse on other teams. But they were reliable in ways the team could depend on when they needed them to be. A clutch third down conversion, a few snaps at RB when they needed a push or an unexpected wheel route. That they both left for the proverbial greener pastures says something.

Bill has his work cut out for him.
 

NortheasternPJ

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It’s almost like spending all offseason trying to figure out whether your two best players might retire isn’t good for the team.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence a lot of the glue guys like Bolden and Amendola left this offseason. These weren’t elite players and certainly would be worse on other teams. But they were reliable in ways the team could depend on when they needed them to be. A clutch third down conversion, a few snaps at RB when they needed a push or an unexpected wheel route. That they both left for the proverbial greener pastures says something.

Bill has his work cut out for him.
I can agree with Amendola, but if we're turning to Bolden that's a huge issue. I get he was good on special teams, but he's had 14 carries and 3 catches since the start of the 2016 season. He's gained 99 yards total in the same timeframe. He also has a total of 83 yards in his playoff career. He hasn't been a factor in years.
 

dcmissle

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The front seven, wide receivers, both lines actually. They can’t defend the run or the pass. Shelton used to be good against the run too, at least he did that. Slow, big but not dominant, and lack of talent. Ooph. I say this to blow off some steam but it’s easier to find top tier talent if we end up picking closer to the middle.
What is your assessment whether this front office is up to a rebuild? Cuz that’s what we’re looking at, at the end of this season if not as soon as the end of next month.
 

CCR

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It’s almost like spending all offseason trying to figure out whether your two best players might retire isn’t good for the team.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence a lot of the glue guys like Bolden and Amendola left this offseason. These weren’t elite players and certainly would be worse on other teams. But they were reliable in ways the team could depend on when they needed them to be. A clutch third down conversion, a few snaps at RB when they needed a push or an unexpected wheel route. That they both left for the proverbial greener pastures says something.

Bill has his work cut out for him.
Are you talking about Lewis? Bolden didn't leave; he was cut.
 

McBride11

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re Michel -
He hasn't looked great and his workload is probably higher than anticipated after missing so much of pre-season. I doubt BB expected to be using him this much either. But Hill (likely the guy to get most of the rushing chances) got hurt, Burkhead got concussed first game and hurt again against Det. That basically leaves you White and Sony. You can't run White every play. Some of the Michel usage is being dictated by circumstances beyond their control.
 

Captaincoop

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At the risk of triggering people, Brady was a significant part of the problem last night.

He was missing throws early, taking a long time to get rid of the ball all night. Those things we could see from the broadcast feed.

It would be interesting to see the coaches' film, because Gronk was doubled all night and the Lions didn't get consistent pressure on Brady. I get that Hogan and Dorsett aren't Rice and Taylor, but someone had to be open on some of those plays and Brady stopped even attempting to get the ball to the WRs in the second half.

We've seen Brady bounce back from down stretches before, so maybe he will again. At some point he's not going to bounce back, though.
 

Mystic Merlin

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At the risk of triggering people, Brady was a significant part of the problem last night.

He was missing throws early, taking a long time to get rid of the ball all night. Those things we could see from the broadcast feed.

It would be interesting to see the coaches' film, because Gronk was doubled all night and the Lions didn't get consistent pressure on Brady. I get that Hogan and Dorsett aren't Rice and Taylor, but someone had to be open on some of those plays and Brady stopped even attempting to get the ball to the WRs in the second half.

We've seen Brady bounce back from down stretches before, so maybe he will again. At some point he's not going to bounce back, though.
He made some pretty bad throws, agreed. Two balls to Dorsett - the one behind him on third down and the pick - were flat out terrible. The pass to burkhead inside the ten may/may not have been poor, as its hard to know if there was miscommunication on the route or Brady fucked it up.

In fairness, on several replays where he got sacked/hit guys were flat out covered.

He’s not been his usual self, and it’s compounded the obvious issues at WR.
 

Dick Drago

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Add Van Noy to the slow LBs who looked overmatched. And Hightower hasn't lost a step, but 3 steps. I'm concerned he is getting playing time when it's obvious he is currently a liability.

Elandon Roberts at least had a few hard hits--and Jonathan Jones didn't look terrible. If he were only two inches taller! The 3rd and long after the Wise sack he just missed. Great throw however.

I kind of think they miss Marquis Flowers--he could at least run. Grisby may be better on ST, but looks lost on D.

Another thing on Van Noy--he looks much worse since coming back from injury last year--and bigger/slower.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Everyone looked like total ass. I'm sure at some point my confidence in TB12 will be misplaced, but I still have confidence that they can figure it out on offense.

The defense, though, I don't know how you fix it. It was bad last year too, they just did a good enough job of holding it together with duct tape and twine, until it all fell apart against the Eagles. Now it just looks flat broken. They do nothing well on defense. Can't stop the run, can't pressure the QB, LBs too slow to cover anyone, and guys continually seem to be able to get open on third and long. They just suck.
 

Van Everyman

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Are you talking about Lewis? Bolden didn't leave; he was cut.
Bolden had been cut multiple years in a row only to ultimately re-sign once things shook out. This year there was some surprise when he chose to leave.
He made some pretty bad throws, agreed. Two balls to Dorsett - the one behind him on third down and the pick - were flat out terrible. The pass to burkhead inside the ten may/may not have been poor, as its hard to know if there was miscommunication on the route or Brady fucked it up.

In fairness, on several replays where he got sacked/hit guys were flat out covered.

He’s not been his usual self, and it’s compounded the obvious issues at WR.
I think it has a lot more to do with the team not having a slot guy to use in Edelman’s absence. From Troy Brown to Welker to Edelman to Amendola last year, other than 2006, Brady has always had an outlet in that position to unload the ball if the other guys can’t get separation. Matthews was maybe supposed to be that guy but Hogan def. isn’t. Without it, he’s going to hold the ball longer looking for somebody to get open.
 

Harry Hooper

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Another thing on Van Noy--he looks much worse since coming back from injury last year--and bigger/slower.
Yes, mid-season Van Noy was an effective player last year, but we really haven't seen that guy again since he came back from his injury.
 

DJnVa

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These struggles seem different. Maybe someone can tell me why the things we saw in other seasons that caused freakouts were just like this and we'll be okay. But I don't know.

Not with a bang, with a whimper...
 

Ale Xander

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Looks like football operations sees injured players as the new market inefficiency. The problem is, inefficient isn't good.
 

soxin6

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Are we even sure Edelman is going to be good? He's 32 years old coming off a major injury.
No, we aren't sure of anything other than Brady trusts him and will throw him the ball. Some of the guys the Pats might dress have a less than 10% chance of getting a ball thrown to them in coverage.
 

bsj

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These struggles seem different. Maybe someone can tell me why the things we saw in other seasons that caused freakouts were just like this and we'll be okay. But I don't know.

Not with a bang, with a whimper...
I walked away from Jax willing to give them a pass and call it like the other years and not panic.

I’m not panicking yet....but my expectations are that for this team to make a run probably less likely than we are used to. Offense will Edelman, Gordon. Etc...but the D is what it is and right now what it is is bad