The Butler Did It

Minneapolis Millers

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Butler's a bit like KG, with more of his value coming from defense than most of the other top 20 players. And like KG, I think it grates on him how badly the Wolves play D, including KAT and Wiggins. I suspect he doesn't view Wiggins as a Big 3 partner, but his contract stymies Butler's ability to recruit someone else to Minnesota. Butler appears to like his chances to build a winner elsewhere, and he might be right about that, although, if that were his main objective, his 3-team list is head-scratching at best. He seems to want the limelight as well.
 

ifmanis5

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The Butler thing is getting weird. Who's in charge over there?
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn
Story filed to ESPN: As Minnesota’s front office tells inquiring rivals that team has no plans to trade Jimmy Butler, owner Glen Taylor had a different message at NBA’s Board of Governors meetings: Butler is available and owners/GM’s should contact Taylor himself if necessary.
 

BigSoxFan

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The Butler thing is getting weird. Who's in charge over there?
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn
Story filed to ESPN: As Minnesota’s front office tells inquiring rivals that team has no plans to trade Jimmy Butler, owner Glen Taylor had a different message at NBA’s Board of Governors meetings: Butler is available and owners/GM’s should contact Taylor himself if necessary.
I love it when owners neuter their GMs in public. Butler has to be traded and their isn’t much time to do it. Don’t know how you can start a training camp with this kind of distraction.
 

ElUno20

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If history has taught us anything, butler will be traded somewhere unexpected for a less than his value.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Butler thing is getting weird. Who's in charge over there?

Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn
Story filed to ESPN: As Minnesota’s front office tells inquiring rivals that team has no plans to trade Jimmy Butler, owner Glen Taylor had a different message at NBA’s Board of Governors meetings: Butler is available and owners/GM’s should contact Taylor himself if necessary.
This is what happens when you give a coach full responsibility on personnel decisions. Thibs is on the chopping block and needs a huge year to keep his job.......so why would he trade Butler? Taylor WILL trade him because when your star makes a demand such as this entering his FA year you do what's best for the long term health of the your organization because well, it's your team! Thibs (and Layden) have a clear conflict of interest in handling the Butler situation......it is Taylor now taking over this one objective if it drags on without a trade.
 

ifmanis5

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Given all the rumors about KAT being less then fully happy, and to a much lesser degree (given reliability) the Wiggins tweet above one has to conclude there's something rotten in MN.
So much for that rumor...
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn 3m3 minutes ago
In a deal that cements him as the franchise’s long-term cornerstone, Minnesota Timberwolves All-Star center Karl-Anthony Towns has agreed to a 5-year, $190M super-maximum extension, league sources tell ESPN.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Sources: Minnesota owner Glen Taylor has made it clear to President/Coach Tom Thibodeau and GM Scott Layden that Jimmy Butler's on the trade block and Taylor wants the front office moving to find a deal. Taylor is pushing for a fast resolution.
Dysfunctional times up in Minny. Just Wow!

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn


Thibodeau’s general manager, Scott Layden, had been shutting down trade inquires for Butler in recent days, and Taylor has demanded that Layden not only take calls on potential deals, but reach out to initiate conversations, league sources said. This is all really...unique.
 

BigSoxFan

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Dysfunctional times up in Minny. Just Wow!

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn


Thibodeau’s general manager, Scott Layden, had been shutting down trade inquires for Butler in recent days, and Taylor has demanded that Layden not only take calls on potential deals, but reach out to initiate conversations, league sources said. This is all really...unique.
What a terrible organization. Let’s hope for Towns’ sake that money buys happiness.
 

Montana Fan

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Seems like the perfect time for the Nets to pounce but they've created a good culture there over the last few years. Not sure that Butler would be a positive add since he has the reputation of being divisive.
 

moondog80

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What a terrible organization. Let’s hope for Towns’ sake that money buys happiness.
Who do we think is right here? Meddling owner is usually a bad thing, but Butler does have a rep of being a pain, and Thibs buying the groceries is a conflict of interest with Thibs the coach.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Who do we think is right here? Meddling owner is usually a bad thing, but Butler does have a rep of being a pain, and Thibs buying the groceries is a conflict of interest with Thibs the coach.
They are both right. Thibs doesn't want to coach a lottery team and Taylor doesn't want Butler to walk out with nothing in return (plus having to deal with the daily drama).

But Taylor is more correct because of the Golden Rule.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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They are both right. Thibs doesn't want to coach a lottery team and Taylor doesn't want Butler to walk out with nothing in return (plus having to deal with the daily drama).

But Taylor is more correct because of the Golden Rule.
Then just fire Thibs, he’s going to do it end of year anyway right? Don’t move your second best player for $.50 on the dollar, suck for a year and fire the guy anyway.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Then just fire Thibs, he’s going to do it end of year anyway right? Don’t move your second best player for $.50 on the dollar, suck for a year and fire the guy anyway.
Seems like Butler and KAT became and either-or thing. If so, they made the right choice and dealing with it quickly might be best they can do.

Of course a better org would have identified this and dealt Butler before the draft...
 

HomeRunBaker

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Then just fire Thibs, he’s going to do it end of year anyway right? Don’t move your second best player for $.50 on the dollar, suck for a year and fire the guy anyway.
Taylor reportedly did consider moving from the Thibs/Layden but it is way too late for that now. I've never been a Thibs fan at all (as a head coach) but Butler isn't demanding a trade due to Thibs it is due to his displeasure with the young kids, KAT and Wiggins. He's leaving next year anyway for zero pennies so yes, you do have to move him for 50 cents now prior to training camp imo and simply move on from the drama. It benefits nobody to keep Butler here and have that locker room a completely divided trainwreck. You have to move on.


Of course a better org would have identified this and dealt Butler before the draft...
So you're saying that Thibs is too stubborn to function optimally in a leadership and decision making role? Boy, nobody saw this coming. /sarcasm
 

Devizier

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If you're a team like New Orleans it's kind of a no brainer to try and snag Butler, right?

I would have surely put the Lakers in the catbird seat but none of those new contracts are moveable.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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If you're a team like New Orleans it's kind of a no brainer to try and snag Butler, right?

I would have surely put the Lakers in the catbird seat but none of those new contracts are moveable.
New Orleans is interesting. Zach Lowe had a piece a couple days ago running down potential trade options but the Pels didn’t make his list.
 

HomeRunBaker

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New Orleans is interesting. Zach Lowe had a piece a couple days ago running down potential trade options but the Pels didn’t make his list.
I know many here hate hearing this but it is a factor, even moreso in this particular case with Taylor involved.....that being an EC team has a distinct advantage over anyone from the West as they are outside of conference.
 

nighthob

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New Orleans is interesting. Zach Lowe had a piece a couple days ago running down potential trade options but the Pels didn’t make his list.
They’re tough as it really needs to be Holiday for Butler. But that would be a tough defensive squad.

Utah should consider it, they do have Butler’s BFF in tow. And that would be a really tough squad.
 

RedOctober3829

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This is the team I thought would go after Butler all along: Miami.


So far, Pat Riley and Miami have been as aggressive as any team in pursuit of a Jimmy Butler trade with Minnesota, league sources tell ESPN. Ownership still prefers to find a deal by early this week, sources said.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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This is the team I thought would go after Butler all along: Miami.


So far, Pat Riley and Miami have been as aggressive as any team in pursuit of a Jimmy Butler trade with Minnesota, league sources tell ESPN. Ownership still prefers to find a deal by early this week, sources said.
This is not the precise reason why, but I said from the minute it was traded that the future Miami pick now owed to Philly would not be the treasure many assumed it would be.
 

Big John

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I've seen "Miami is interested" plastered all over the web, but I haven't seen a single proposed package. Stuff like that could be originating in Minneapolis, trying to drive Butler's value.
 

nighthob

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This is not the precise reason why, but I said from the minute it was traded that the future Miami pick now owed to Philly would not be the treasure many assumed it would be.
Justice Winslow and James Johnson might be the best that Minnesota could do in any event.
 

Swedgin

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I've seen "Miami is interested" plastered all over the web, but I haven't seen a single proposed package. Stuff like that could be originating in Minneapolis, trying to drive Butler's value.
Richardson, KO and a 1st.

Butler and Dieng for Richardson, JJ and Tyler Johnson and a 1st.
 

Swedgin

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You can construct Miami packages, but it's all speculation.
I have not seen any packages from any team, reported as having been offered. Your initial post suggested that Miami's inclusion as a suitor, was Minny trying to increase its leverage. It makes a ton of sense for Miami to want Butler. The Heat have no clear path for growth. With respect to the title contenders, they are on the outside looking in. They have no cap space. Riley is nearing the end of his run. Depending on how much they have to give up Butler at least puts Miami in the discussion in the East.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You can construct Miami packages, but it's all speculation.
1. You asked for proposed packages.
2. Two posters give you proposed packages that you asked for.
3. You dismiss said packages as speculation.

C'mon man.
 

Big John

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The fans of every team have a package. I don't see anything that makes much sense. As for Miami, is Butler really a player who will put them into contention? If not, why offer Justice Winslow, who is finally starting to look like a decent player? It's not as though Pat Riley will lose his job if the Heat don't win 45 games.
 

nighthob

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It’s not always about winning a title next year. Some times you have to start by acquiring the all star and going from there.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The fans of every team have a package. I don't see anything that makes much sense. As for Miami, is Butler really a player who will put them into contention? If not, why offer Justice Winslow, who is finally starting to look like a decent player? It's not as though Pat Riley will lose his job if the Heat don't win 45 games.
Is Justice Winslow a player who will put them into contention? Whoever tradres for Butler will be getting a steal provided they are able to extend him...…...which is likely as he'll retain his Bird Rights. Miami's package that they can offer will certainly be competitive with the others and as I've mentioned upthread they have an enormous advantage being out of conference.
 

Big John

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Yes, but Winslow is young, healthy and cost-controlled. Butler is nearing 30, has had his share of injuries, and will want to get paid when he hits free agency.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Butler would look really good in Denver, though I'm not sure they would move Murray or Harris and I doubt Plumlee and some combination of picks, Lyles, Lydon and Porter Jr get it done.

Jokic, Millsap, Butler, Harris, Muray would be pretty sick.
 

nighthob

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Butler would look really good in Denver, though I'm not sure they would move Murray or Harris and I doubt Plumlee and some combination of picks, Lyles, Lydon and Porter Jr get it done.

Jokic, Millsap, Butler, Harris, Muray would be pretty sick.
Honestly they should push for a Harris for Butler deal. Butler would look really good playing off of Jokic.
 

moondog80

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Yes, but Winslow is young, healthy and cost-controlled. Butler is nearing 30, has had his share of injuries, and will want to get paid when he hits free agency.
Winslow is a free agent after this year and still not very good. He is living off that fact that was picked 10th and rumored to be the target when Ainge offered Charlotte a bunch of picks (that in reality likely contained protections to ensure that none were really high).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yes, but Winslow is young, healthy and cost-controlled. Butler is nearing 30, has had his share of injuries, and will want to get paid when he hits free agency.
Winslow, after 3 NBA seasons, looks to be a career 2nd-unit player who is entering FA after this season. He'd only be part of any proposed deal and not the centerpiece. Josh Richardson is also entering year 4 and has proven to be the superior player during each of their seasons together. Bam Adebayo would also likely be a target for the Wolves despite really being exposed offensively once teams got a line on him as a rookie.

Another advantage that Miami has is the $19m expiring contract of Tyler Johnson enabling the Heat to absorb the additional year of Gorgui Dieng's $17m. They could move either Winslow or James Johnson for a 1st rounder that they could include in a deal. Something like Tyler Johnson, Richardson, and Adebayo for Butler and Dieng works for both salary cap and roster balance purposes while clearing a ton of money for '20-'21 by moving Dieng's contract.
 

the moops

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Every single one of those teams would gladly offer those deals for Butler. I can't see MIN accepting anywhere near those terrible of deals though.
 

ManicCompression

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There’s no upside for the wolves in any of those deals - maybe the nets with Levert. Butler’s not a salary dump. If the wolves are just going to end up with Austin rivers and MM, they might as well keep Butler and try to make the playoffs. Picks don’t really sweeten any of them, except maybe the Miami 21 from Philly.
 

Big John

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Butler is a rental and it's a fire sale. No way the Wolves get more than 50 cents on the dollar.
 

nighthob

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Milwaukee: Snell, Henson, Teletovic. Pick any two
Philadelphis: Covington and Bayless
Toronto: straight up for Ibaka. Or Danny Green and C.J. Miles
Washington: Austin Rivers and Markieff Morris
Brooklyn: DeMarre Carroll and Caris LeVert
Indiana: Evans and Bogdanovic
Cleveland: Jordan Clarkson, Kyle Korver

Any of these deals could be sweetened with picks, if necessary.
Some of those deals aren’t possible within Taylor’s timeline (Indiana can’t trade Evans until mid December). Some of those teams wouldn’t deal for him because they have a 0% chance of re-signing him and would view him as an expiring deal in a salary dump (Cleveland and Milwaukee).

As everyne’s already discussed Brooklyn and they’re one of Butler’s preferred destinations I’m not sure why you even bothered. They’re obviously going to be bidding because he wants to play in New York and they want to be able to lure other stars in free agency. So something like Crabbe, RHJ, and their 2019 #1 would likely be in play for them.
 

Big John

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As everyne’s already discussed Brooklyn and they’re one of Butler’s preferred destinations I’m not sure why you even bothered. They’re obviously going to be bidding because he wants to play in New York and they want to be able to lure other stars in free agency. So something like Crabbe, RHJ, and their 2019 #1 would likely be in play for them.
If that were offered, I would expect the Wolves to jump at it. The Knicks could offer Hardaway and their 2019 #1 on a similar rationale.
The question is whether or not Butler will lure anyone to NYC. He apparently wore out his welcome in Chicago and it's pretty obvious that Minnesota's young stars didn't want to play with him.