Where does SOSH stand on Brady/Belichick/Kraft?

ifmanis5 said:

I don't care how the sausage is made on this sports talk radio Three-way.
20 years of dominance and 5 rings. What problem are we discussing?

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How endings are messy and tough and sad. Even for the greats. Especially for the greats.

Montana and Aikman and Young and Favre (Let alone the truly sad cases)

Shula and Landry, Parcells and Gibbs.

Ok, Elway finally gets rewarded at the end. Jim Brown walks away from this game a God in his late 20s. Barry Sanders leaves on his own terms.

The general rule is to go out with a whimper.

We gettin down to the short strokes, they know it and a preposterously great run closing in on two decades isn’t making it easier. It’s making everyone a little bit crazy.

And what does the last option really mean anyway? Is the dog on fire? Is the bar on fire? Is there a nice fireplace, and the dog is lying next to it? What?

I vote there is no problem, the dog is lying next to the fire, happy as a clam, because he is fricking 41 years old, has won 5 SB rings, gets to go to work every day with a couple of his best friends and play football for a job, his wife is awesome, his kids are gorgeous, funny and smart, and he is the best there ever was at his position. And he's NOT DONE YET.

And if the dog is me, then I really hope his belly is full, the fire is warm, and his paws are twitching as he dreams of catching rabbits and sniffing the butts of attractive lady dogs.

streeter88 said:

And what does the last option really mean anyway? Is the dog on fire? Is the bar on fire? Is there a nice fireplace, and the dog is lying next to it? What?

I vote there is no problem, the dog is lying next to the fire, happy as a clam, because he is fricking 41 years old, has won 5 SB rings, gets to go to work every day with a couple of his best friends and play football for a job, his wife is awesome, his kids are gorgeous, funny and smart, and he is the best there ever was at his position. And he's NOT DONE YET.

And if the dog is me, then I really hope his belly is full, the fire is warm, and his paws are twitching as he dreams of catching rabbits and sniffing the butts of attractive lady dogs.

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For those of you meme challenged

I don't have an opinion on the current state of Brady/Bill/Bob, all I know is that the season can't start quick enough, because every minute of every day since the Super Bowl has been a shitshow for the organization, and the only thing that will change it is getting on the field and winning games again.

I will say this though, the NFL Network is showing a replay of the playoff game against the Titans, and every time I see Malcolm Butler make a play, shit any time I see him on the field, I want to climb through my television and shake Bill and scream "DON'T FUCKING BENCH HIM IN THE SUPER BOWL. JUST DON'T."

Deathofthebambino said:

I don't have an opinion on the current state of Brady/Bill/Bob, all I know is that the season can't start quick enough, because every minute of every day since the Super Bowl has been a shitshow for the organization, and the only thing that will change it is getting on the field and winning games again.

I will say this though, the NFL Network is showing a replay of the playoff game against the Titans, and every time I see Malcolm Butler make a play, shit any time I see him on the field, I want to climb through my television and shake Bill and scream "DON'T FUCKING BENCH HIM IN THE SUPER BOWL. JUST DON'T."

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You don't really know that they wouldn't have lost by more with him in, right?

Reverend said:

You don't really know that they wouldn't have lost by more with him in, right?

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You mean, instead of forcing one punt, they might have not forced any? I'm pretty confident taking the other side of that bet. From week 5 until the Super Bowl, no team in the NFL gave up less points than the Patriots.

Then they give up 41 to a backup QB, and make only one stop, and the only real difference between that defense and the one that played the previous 12 games was the fact that Butler was standing on the sidelines...

I'm going to stop, because you're probably being sarcastic...I'm still having issues getting over this one if you can't tell. This offseason needs to end.

The cure, as you noted, is flipping the page to a new season. If you can heal 2007, and to a lesser extent 2011, you can heal this. There is not of time left with this crew. Enjoy it.

Deathofthebambino said:

You mean, instead of forcing one punt, they might have not forced any? I'm pretty confident taking the other side of that bet. From week 5 until the Super Bowl, no team in the NFL gave up less points than the Patriots.

Then they give up 41 to a backup QB, and make only one stop, and the only real difference between that defense and the one that played the previous 12 games was the fact that Butler was standing on the sidelines...

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Exactly.

Not for nothing, but it seems like everyone who cuts a deal with *that guy* comes out worse for it.

I’m curious how SOSH feels about the benching now given we have some time for the emotions to die down a bit. I still think they would have been torched with or without him playing. I made my argument months ago and stand by it. I put the blame on the front 7 and perhaps the coaching. It wasn’t the most talented front 7 anyway (understatement). Our corners played well after the switch. Butler wasn’t the same guy last year as he was in 2015 and 2016. I don’t buy that the defense is better with an unprepared Butler as the nickel corner against the Eagles given his body of work as a slot corner (it’s not good) and his lack of prep for the game because of his illness. We’ve beaten this dead horse though.

SMU_Sox said:

I’m curious how SOSH feels about the benching now given we have some time for the emotions to die down a bit. I still think they would have been torched with or without him playing. I made my argument months ago and stand by it. I put the blame on the front 7 and perhaps the coaching. It wasn’t the most talented front 7 anyway (understatement). Our corners played well after the switch. Butler wasn’t the same guy last year as he was in 2015 and 2016. I don’t buy that the defense is better with an unprepared Butler as the nickel corner against the Eagles given his body of work as a slot corner (it’s not good) and his lack of prep for the game because of his illness. We’ve beaten this dead horse though.

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SMU_Sox said:

I’m curious how SOSH feels about the benching now given we have some time for the emotions to die down a bit. I still think they would have been torched with or without him playing. I made my argument months ago and stand by it. I put the blame on the front 7 and perhaps the coaching. It wasn’t the most talented front 7 anyway (understatement). Our corners played well after the switch. Butler wasn’t the same guy last year as he was in 2015 and 2016. I don’t buy that the defense is better with an unprepared Butler as the nickel corner against the Eagles given his body of work as a slot corner (it’s not good) and his lack of prep for the game because of his illness. We’ve beaten this dead horse though.

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I was entertained for 19 weeks. I think I will be entertained for at least 19 more next season. That's enough for me.

SMU_Sox said:

I’m curious how SOSH feels about the benching now given we have some time for the emotions to die down a bit. I still think they would have been torched with or without him playing. I made my argument months ago and stand by it. I put the blame on the front 7 and perhaps the coaching. It wasn’t the most talented front 7 anyway (understatement). Our corners played well after the switch. Butler wasn’t the same guy last year as he was in 2015 and 2016. I don’t buy that the defense is better with an unprepared Butler as the nickel corner against the Eagles given his body of work as a slot corner (it’s not good) and his lack of prep for the game because of his illness. We’ve beaten this dead horse though.

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You previously made the most cogent argument I have read anywhere on this topic. And while I understand it, and am largely persuaded by it, I can't shake the belief that they would have played better with one of their two starting corners on the field. That's not to say that it would have been pretty, or that the Eagles would not have still had tremendous success, for the reasons you noted, but (a) I think BB weakened the D at two spots and (b) I can believe that benching a starter without a lot of explanation could have been a huge WTF moment for the rest of the D, which could have affected players' psyches. Given that the margin of victory was so small and that a stop or two (which they really did not get down the stretch) might have changed everything, I will never be fully convinced that Bill didn't make a massive blunder.

SMU_Sox said:

I’m curious how SOSH feels about the benching now given we have some time for the emotions to die down a bit. I still think they would have been torched with or without him playing. I made my argument months ago and stand by it. I put the blame on the front 7 and perhaps the coaching. It wasn’t the most talented front 7 anyway (understatement). Our corners played well after the switch. Butler wasn’t the same guy last year as he was in 2015 and 2016. I don’t buy that the defense is better with an unprepared Butler as the nickel corner against the Eagles given his body of work as a slot corner (it’s not good) and his lack of prep for the game because of his illness. We’ve beaten this dead horse though.

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If we must reenter the autopsy room, I stand with Bambino. But that is admittedly with the benefit of hindsight — though to be fair to others and, I suppose, myself, I was dead certain Butler was going to be reinserted in the second half and called for it.

But why beat ourselves up? And if we are being totally honest about it, this was not the first time the Pats were outcoached in a Super Bowl. That happened, in my opinion, at the end of the almost perfect 2007 season.

One thing I’ll never believe is that B.B. did anything other than what he thought would maximize the chance of the Pats winning the last game of last season. The contra position is preposterous.

dcmissle said:

One thing I’ll never believe is that B.B. did anything other than what he thought would maximize the chance of the Pats winning the last game of last season. The contra position is preposterous.

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Agreed. In hindsight it seems that he made a mistake. He is human after all and not infallible. For me it is long past time to move on.

OK, I was gonna respond to @Deathofthebambino , and then I wasn't gonna because @SMU_Sox called upon the floods, but fuck it.

No. I do not agree with the conventional wisdom that has emerged here about the Super Bowl. I think I understand why Belichick did what he did and I think he was correct, insofar it is part of his meta plan which he's been running by the book for some time and which has brought him great success.

I think the conventional wisdom is an outcome produced by all of us having braced ourselves for the time Belichick would be wrong. We've been prepped and told it would happen, convinced it had already happened even when it hadn't, and all the wanna be smart guys, whoever they are in any given year, run out and lay out ways to understand Belichick's wrongness before during and after that fact so that anything we hear or think ends up being something we've been prepared for and are ready to believe. We've been gaslit about Belichick since 2001, is it? How insane is that? And... he has always, always come through as the guy once we sorted it.

So yeah, the Super Bowl sucked. How much do you think it must have sucked for Belichick knowing he couldn't use his best corner back?

Think about it.

In the Tom v. Time videos, they discuss one of Belichick's uber, meta, constitutional principles: He doesn't get on you for not having the ability to keep up with a guy, only for effort and attention--can you do what you can do. Are you doing what you can do.

We know that's a Belichick thing. So, given a choice, he'd rather get beat with the guys who are prepared failing than risking the outcome on guys he's not sure about--he'd have to have his fucking head examined to go with someone when he's not 100%.


Belichick grew up in Annapolis. Having over arching codes for how things are done is something he clearly learned there and is clear about it, and that he uses it.

So here's what I think:
I think posed with the possibility of having to apologize to his team for losing because they got beat and apologizing to his team for losing because he played a guy he wasn't 100% on, BB takes the former every day and twice on Sunday. If they win, we're not having the conversation so we never think about it.

I can’t get it to work. So...

<insert clapping gif here>

Papelbon's Poutine said:

I can’t get it to work. So...

<insert clapping gif here>

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I can't make this shit up--because I play music on youtube and the fucking algorithm is interconnected...

I shit you not...

This is what was playing when I read this post:

Annapolis. Go. It's worth a visit in its own right, physically beautiful, steeped in history, located in a charming town.

That's for the world. But friends here, go to understand better. It doesn't matter when you visit. It can be during Plebe Summer. It can be to take a football game. It can be during bitter winter day when you think nobody is paying attention, but everyone is paying attention, especially to whether he or she individually is measuring up. It's where all this great shit was soaked up.

Sorry, Rev. Mistake on my end - should not have called for beating a dead horse even more dead. Can't let it go, I guess. Won't do it again.

dcmissle said:

Annapolis. Go. It's worth a visit in its own right, physically beautiful, steeped in history, located in a charming town.

That's for the world. But friends here, go to understand better. It doesn't matter when you visit. It can be during Plebe Summer. It can be to take a football game. It can be during bitter winter day when you think nobody is paying attention, but everyone is paying attention, especially to whether he or she individually is measuring up. It's where all this great shit was soaked up.

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I've heard this as well. Like, it's just worth it.

Back in the '70s when my dad was still in Washington, my uncle who had been in the Navy asked my dad if he could get him and his sons a tour. My dad called it in to whomever you call things like that into when you are in government and, as he tells it, said he made very clear that it was short notice so he understood nothing special could be arranged and that's fine, just getting them in was enough for him to be more than grateful.

Apparently their station wagon was saluted everywhere they went. My dad never found out who in the chain of command thought that would be a funny way to "say hi" to my dad.

But yes, I have it on good authority that basically the entire Annapolis community, however unknowingly, once participated in a respectful, educational prank to teach my cousins... something.

I have to believe this is not the only time or version of shit like this they do. I can't even imagine the level of operators that produced a Bill Belichick.

SMU_Sox said:

Sorry, Rev. Mistake on my end - should not have called for beating a dead horse even more dead. Can't let it go, I guess. Won't do it again.

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No worries at all--I was expecting more of a deluge. Guess not.

And as you can see, I think people have been beating on the wrong horse, so to speak.

SMU_Sox said:

I’m curious how SOSH feels about the benching now given we have some time for the emotions to die down a bit. I still think they would have been torched with or without him playing. I made my argument months ago and stand by it. I put the blame on the front 7 and perhaps the coaching. It wasn’t the most talented front 7 anyway (understatement). Our corners played well after the switch. Butler wasn’t the same guy last year as he was in 2015 and 2016. I don’t buy that the defense is better with an unprepared Butler as the nickel corner against the Eagles given his body of work as a slot corner (it’s not good) and his lack of prep for the game because of his illness. We’ve beaten this dead horse though.

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In retrospect, you were way righter than I was with respect to my concern about a deluge of opinion.