The Starting Rotation's Start

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Byrdbrain

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Beeks is pitching today which wouldn't make it too hard to slide him in to Price's spot if Wright isn't the guy. Of course if Price is fine all of this is moot anyhow.

Side note on Wright - if Swihart can catch a knuckleball that could be a situation where he catches since pitch calling is a pretty minor part of the job.
The PawSox had an early start and are actually in the 6th inning right now.
Beeks went 5 innings gave up 4 hits, 1 run and struck out 6.

That said if Price misses any starts, which I assume he will even though Cora seems to think he may not, then Velazquez will pitch.
It sure as hell won't be Wright.
 

chawson

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No comments on Poms start last night. All in all, despite the L, I’ll take it if that’s what he’ll be going forward
Decent results and much better than I expected. He may be getting there, but he's still a tick down. Pom's fastball opened the season sitting at 88.0 mph. Last night (as well as last week against KC) he averaged 89.1.

On May 9 of last year, his fastball averaged 90.1. By July, he sat at 92.0.

The hardest pitch he threw last night was at 91.7 MPH, which Stanton hit out in his first at bat.
 

grimshaw

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That said if Price misses any starts, which I assume he will even though Cora seems to think he may not, then Velazquez will pitch.
It sure as hell won't be Wright.
I don't think Wright would be up to 6 innings already if they weren't planning on using him soon regardless of what his effectiveness might be. I'd actually take him over Brian Johnson who hasn't been so great.

Also - someone was wondering upthread about keeping guys without options in the minors to stretch out. That's what Jake Arrieta and Greg Holland did though it probably required their permission.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Price's "spot" right now is Saturday. His not starting today bumps everyone up one day...Porcello today, Erod tomorrow, Sale on Friday.

Wright is ineligible to pitch until Sunday and Beeks will be on only two days rest, so it will most assuredly be Velazquez making the start if it isn't Price.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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Price was an effective flamethrower in the bullpen last year. Now as a starter his velocity is way down and his movement is flat. Is he just not cut out to be an effective starter anymore? Still too early to say.
 

shaggydog2000

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Price was an effective flamethrower in the bullpen last year. Now as a starter his velocity is way down and his movement is flat. Is he just not cut out to be an effective starter anymore? Still too early to say.
You want him to be a $30 mil a year middle reliever maybe?

He's most likely injured, which would explain his dip in performance over the last 5 outings. He also had elbow injuries last year, which he pitched through will putting up a sub-par season. Maybe an elbow surgery gets him back to his old self in a year. Or maybe it's just the beginning of the end for his arm. Who knows until it happens. But putting a guy with a bad elbow in the pen and having him pitch every other day with little warmup is not how you improve his value.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Johnson has no options. He is not going anywhere right now. Not for Wright, not for Beeks.

Wright will get a couple starts on his rehab before they bring him up.

There is an empty spot on the 40 man roster, but the 25 is tight and getting tighter with Pedroia getting closer.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Price was an effective flamethrower in the bullpen last year. Now as a starter his velocity is way down and his movement is flat. Is he just not cut out to be an effective starter anymore? Still too early to say.
FWIW, his velocity this year is right in line with his 2016 numbers when he was pretty damn effective...and not dramatically different from his numbers last year either (in 2017, FB was up a bit, likely due to his bullpen stint).

The numbness situation, the two occurrences of which bookend all of his poor outings, could be indicative of something being physically wrong with him. In which case, moving him to the bullpen probably doesn't do much good.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
You want him to be a $30 mil a year middle reliever maybe?
The rest of your post makes sense, but I want to push back on this, because it's classic sunk-cost fallacy. We're paying him the $30M a year (assuming he stays, which seems increasingly likely) regardless of how we use him. If he's more effective as a middle reliever than a starter then that's how we should use him. The $30M, like the Norwegian Blue's plumage, don't enter into it.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Johnson has no options. He is not going anywhere right now. Not for Wright, not for Beeks.

Wright will get a couple starts on his rehab before they bring him up.
Once Wright's suspension is up, there is no rehab for him to be on. He has to be added to the active roster once the suspension is over unless they concoct a new injury with which to DL him. And doing that would mean he'd have to shut down for a week or so before continuing to "rehab" back.

My guess is that if Price is hurt, he goes to the DL for a reliever (Poyner?), Velazquez starts on Saturday, Velazquez gets optioned for Wright on Sunday, Wright becomes the fifth starter going forward. Or they just sit on Price until Sunday then DL him to make room for Wright directly.
 

chrisfont9

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Decent results and much better than I expected. He may be getting there, but he's still a tick down. Pom's fastball opened the season sitting at 88.0 mph. Last night (as well as last week against KC) he averaged 89.1.

On May 9 of last year, his fastball averaged 90.1. By July, he sat at 92.0.

The hardest pitch he threw last night was at 91.7 MPH, which Stanton hit out in his first at bat.
He battled. That was truly impressive. I know our community has a tendency to get down on pitchers who nibble and run up pitch counts, something I'm sure Pom would avoid if he had the stuff to do so, but he's putting together the kind of resume that should command a bit more respect than it does. The velocity issue is a concern and his health seems to always have a bit of a cloud hanging over it since the trade. But after yesterday (and really last year when he made all his starts) I won't question his mentality, ever.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Is he really considered serving a suspension though? Maybe Bowlerman can answer this but I thought Wright's suspension had to be served while in the major leagues. Otherwise, teams could stash suspended players in the minors to serve their suspensions.
 

Cuzittt

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Is he really considered serving a suspension though? Maybe Bowlerman can answer this but I thought Wright's suspension had to be served while in the major leagues. Otherwise, teams could stash suspended players in the minors to serve their suspensions.
He is serving his suspension. He is allowed (if he consents) to do a rehab assignment... An assignment whose time varies by the length of the suspension.

This is not considered an injury rehab.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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You want him to be a $30 mil a year middle reliever maybe?

He's most likely injured, which would explain his dip in performance over the last 5 outings. He also had elbow injuries last year, which he pitched through will putting up a sub-par season. Maybe an elbow surgery gets him back to his old self in a year. Or maybe it's just the beginning of the end for his arm. Who knows until it happens. But putting a guy with a bad elbow in the pen and having him pitch every other day with little warmup is not how you improve his value.
I’m not suggesting putting him in the bullpen right now, but if he continues to struggle as a starter with an injury he might need a DL stint followed by a rehab stint. Then would I possibly consider him as a LH setup man.

As for the $30 million, as the manager I use the players at my disposal in the best position possible to win games. Price was a weapon in the bullpen late in the season last year.
 

shaggydog2000

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I’m not suggesting putting him in the bullpen right now, but if he continues to struggle as a starter with an injury he might need a DL stint followed by a rehab stint. Then would I possibly consider him as a LH setup man.

As for the $30 million, as the manager I use the players at my disposal in the best position possible to win games. Price was a weapon in the bullpen late in the season last year.
I know people have gotten really excited about the value of setup men the last few years. Or trying to replicate Andrew Miller's existence. But even with this sort of player getting better contracts, the value of a well above average starter is much, much higher. This is why getting Price healthy and back to starting is more valuable than using him in the bullpen. The sort of player he was is worth quite a bit more than even closers are. They are more rare, and they are paid more as a result. So turning someone good enough to be a $30 mil a year starter into a middle reliever is a waste. It's a waste of the resource you have. Even if he has three times the chance of being a top reliever as he has of being a good starter again, the expected value of his becoming a starter would be greater. That is why you give him a bunch of chances to start until he proves he can't. This may even be a multi year process. He would only go to the bullpen if his injury knocks him out for so long that there is no time to build his innings back up to starter level before the playoffs start. And even then you would plan on bringing him back as a starter the next year, just like the Sox did last time around. There is no injury that would be bad for a starter but just fine for a reliever, so don't make believe that there is.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Is he really considered serving a suspension though? Maybe Bowlerman can answer this but I thought Wright's suspension had to be served while in the major leagues. Otherwise, teams could stash suspended players in the minors to serve their suspensions.
They activated him from the DL on April 28 and he began serving the suspension immediately after that. Because it was not an on-field suspension, he goes on the restricted list for the length of the suspension and the team does not have to play a man short during that time. Unlike an on-field suspension such as Joe Kelly's, which is served with the team having to operate with a 24-man roster.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Rodriguez looked great to me last night. Was only able to catch 3 innings and then highlights this AM, but his stuff looked filthy.
Any insights or comments from anyone that caught the full game?
 

mfried

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Rodriguez looked great to me last night. Was only able to catch 3 innings and then highlights this AM, but his stuff looked filthy.
Any insights or comments from anyone that caught the full game?
Rodriguez pitched a GREAT 5 innings with 91 pitches. He has no idea how to be economical, but what a talent! If our bullpen can handle 5-6 inning starts, he’s the man!
 

Doooweeeey!

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Eddie threw four-seamers at 96, 97 in the 5th. Have we seen that before? Can he bring that more often and be effective?
I think he'll be more economical when he's not facing this year's Yankees. Nice outing.
 

Sale4CY

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Eddie threw four-seamers at 96, 97 in the 5th. Have we seen that before? Can he bring that more often and be effective?
I think he'll be more economical when he's not facing this year's Yankees. Nice outing.
Some say the Yankees juice their gun. I’ve never seen Erod throw that hard before.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Some say the Yankees juice their gun. I’ve never seen Erod throw that hard before.

Pitchf/x
shows a max fastball speed of 97.53 last night. Other games in which he's topped 97 as a max speed include at Toronto 9/10/16, vs Yankees 8/11/16, at New York 9/28/15, at Baltimore 9/14/15, vs Yankees 8/31/15, vs Indians 8/18/15, at Miami 8/12/15, and many more in 2015 (including one game with a max velocity of over 98). Lots more games where he maxed out over 96, including two starts ago vs the Royals. Suffice to say, he's thrown that hard plenty in his career.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Pomeranz "fixing" his issues? https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/red-soxs-drew-pomeranz-finds-his-fix/
Let's hope so. If Sale can continue to be Sale, Price can get be consistently what he looked like last week, Pom getting back to what he looked like last season (more than 5 innings per start please though, thx.) I would feel confident going toe to toe with Houston's rotation (okay, not super confident, but I think it'd be a helluva series)
 

BaseballJones

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Price's last three starts after coming back from the hand issues...

5.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 3 bb, 6 k
9.0 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 0 bb, 8 k
6.0 ip, 3 h, 1 r, 1 er, 3 bb, 9 k
TOT: 20.1 ip, 13 h, 5 r, 5 er, 6 bb, 23 k, 2.21 era, 0.93 whip, 10.2 k/9

Nice little stretch by David.
 

strek1

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Pomeranz "fixing" his issues? https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/red-soxs-drew-pomeranz-finds-his-fix/
Let's hope so. If Sale can continue to be Sale, Price can get be consistently what he looked like last week, Pom getting back to what he looked like last season (more than 5 innings per start please though, thx.) I would feel confident going toe to toe with Houston's rotation (okay, not super confident, but I think it'd be a helluva series)

Yes as you said, let's hope so. I'll believe it when I see it though.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How much rope do we give Pomeranz anyway? We can't keep throwing him out there every 5th day if he's only giving us 4 innings. How many more starts until you think about replacing him or replace him?
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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How much rope do we give Pomeranz anyway? We can't keep throwing him out there every 5th day if he's only giving us 4 innings. How many more starts until you think about replacing him or replace him?
I think Pom’s out of rope. Wright looks ready to take the ball and give the team innings and take the pressure off the bullpen.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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How much rope do we give Pomeranz anyway? We can't keep throwing him out there every 5th day if he's only giving us 4 innings. How many more starts until you think about replacing him or replace him?
With 3 long guys, you probably actually could. The problem is length and quality. Having said that, it wouldn't shock me if he just skipped one start at most. This guy did find a way to turn it around last year and was very good after a rough start. Although, it wasn't this rough
 

Al Zarilla

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How much rope do we give Pomeranz anyway? We can't keep throwing him out there every 5th day if he's only giving us 4 innings. How many more starts until you think about replacing him or replace him?
At least one more start according to Cora just now. “We have confidence in him.”

Edit: Cora did not say at least one more start, implying he’s in the rotation for the duration.
 

Byrdbrain

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He's sucked but it's May(I suppose it will be June when he pitches next), they are in first place and he has a history of being pretty good.
It makes for an ugly game but now is the time to see if he can bounce back and be at least decent.

I assume this is getting pretty close to being his last chance as a starter and I don't know if he would accept a phantom DL stint.
I expect him to be a decent starting pitcher next year for a bad NL team.
 

grimshaw

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I'm not a fan of Pom getting another start. Especially against Houston. Hope it's a reverse lock.
I'm thinking Wright will piggy back him since he's had a few days rest,. If Pom shits the bed or can only manage 5, then Wright slots in.
 
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Al Zarilla

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I'm thinking Wright will piggy back him since he's had a few days rest,. If Pom shits the bed or can only manage 5, then Wright slots in.
Unless Cora speaks with a forked tongue, or is the expression from both sides of his mouth, Pom has a long leash, game-wise. Cora said as much after Pom’s last start. Of course, he was probably expressing confidence in Hanley up until the end too.
 

grimshaw

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Unless Cora speaks with a forked tongue, or is the expression from both sides of his mouth, Pom has a long leash, game-wise. Cora said as much after Pom’s last start. Of course, he was probably expressing confidence in Hanley up until the end too.
We'll see. He already skipped a start to work on mechanics, so it could happen again if he kills the pen. Either way Wright and Velazquez may have to take one for the team tomorrow.
 

uk_sox_fan

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and good to see Porcello snap out of his funk. I'm not particularly optimistic about Pom tonight, but if he can post a quality start it would really bode well for the near-term future of the team.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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I heard them talking about Pom on TV - I think it was NESN, but can't remember if it was pregame or in-game broadcast, that Pom recognized the problem was that he was not using his legs, because they weren't sore like they usually are. Which could explain the loss in velocity, and perhaps command. I guess we'll see if he's fixed the problem.
 

BaseballJones

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EdRo has been pretty much lights out recently. Getting deeper into games, less BB’s.
Last 5 games: 28.0 ip, 2.25 era, 1.14 whip, 10.6 k/9. Given up more than 2 runs in just one of those five starts (3 runs vs. Oak). Yeah, he's getting the job done for sure.
 

sean1562

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So another pretty bad start from Pomeranz, followed by a fairly capable relief showing from Wright. Pom with an ERA of 6.81 at the beginning of June. When does he become so bad that we move him to the bullpen and he can't bitch about it? Guy has pretty much destroyed any hope of a huge deal, no matter how strongly he finishes. Cant see him getting more than Alex Cobb at this point
 

grimshaw

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I thought he was baby steps better considering the competition. I mean 4 runs in 5 innings isn't a good thing but only a few hard hit balls and he was small balled for two of them. The velocity was up a little too.

I think he earned another start.
 

Pegleg

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Not sure if this is the place but I'm really dissatisfied with starting pitcher management. Pomeranz has been consistently awful. He was added to the starters before he was ready and should have gone to AAA for some rehab work. He should still get sent down there. Meanwhile, Wright has been great in long relief and has earned a chance to start. Pomeranz should have gone this route.

Then, to start Pom against Houston. Bad move all around. You don't set the table with your worst pitcher. Even Velasquez would have been preferable. Very disappointed with starting pitcher management.
 
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