Round One Discussion - Toronto

Boston Brawler

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 17, 2011
9,757
I'm not feeling a rout for either team tomorrow. This is going to be about which goalie plays just a little better. I'm saying 3-2 Bruins.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
14,466
Gallows Hill
Considering how well the Riley Nash- Marchand- Pastrnak combination played when Bergeron was out any thought to spreading out the offense a little and inserting Heinen and Donato?

Marchand- Riley Nash - Pastrnak
Rick Nash - Bergeron- Backes
DeBrusk - Krejci- Donato
Heinen- Kuraly - Schaller
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2004
27,164
Cambridge, MA
Thought the first line was buzzing honestly, just no puck luck. Can’t break them up at this point IMO

Another thought - get ready to see the choppiest ice yet this season given the weather and the C’s playing tonight
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
Maybe so, but the Bruins were offensively challenged in games 2 and 3, and one would think that if nothing else Donato might help on the power play. Frankly I’d get both Heiden and Donato into the mix in game 7.

Where things stand now is that if Toronto can shut down the top line, the Bruins go home.
The Bruins scored 7 goals in game 2.

Tuukka Rask is the better goalie. Freddy Andersen is having the better series. I’ll put my faith in Tuukka to fix this issue.
Tuukka has given up fewer goals and has the same save %. Andersen has had 2 great games and was a tire fire in the first 2. I’m not positive he’s having the better series. He’s having the higher variance in his best and worst, that’s for sure.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
14,466
Gallows Hill
Thought the first line was buzzing honestly, just no puck luck. Can’t break them up at this point IMO

Another thought - get ready to see the choppiest ice yet this season given the weather and the C’s playing tonight
Could it possibly be worse then the ice at the ACC last night? Especially that big spot to the right of the net where the Bruins shot twice. The puck just stuck there.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,232
Falmouth
The Bruins scored 7 goals in game 2.


Tuukka has given up fewer goals and has the same save %. Andersen has had 2 great games and was a tire fire in the first 2. I’m not positive he’s having the better series. He’s having the higher variance in his best and worst, that’s for sure.
You're doing this wrong buddy.

 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
35,734
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Rask's numbers may be great but there's no excuse for giving up that second goal last night. Softer than puppy shit. He can't play that way and expect to avoid criticism. He hasn't been the same in the last two games as he was in the first 4.

Game 7 this year is a big test for him. He's 1-2 in Game 7s and hasn't really played very well in any of them (the one win was the 4-1 comeback game). He's been the starting keeper in series where the Bruins have blown a 3-0 series lead and a 3-2 series lead, and he of course has the last game of the Final again Chicago as well. He's a franchise goalie but I continue to have my doubts as to whether he's the guy to lead this team on a Cup run. He did it once but that's 5 years in the past and they came up short.

He's got to play better in Game 7.
 
Last edited:

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
You're doing this wrong buddy.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m worried about Game 7 and not happy with how things have gone. I just don’t think they need to make major lineup changes. I’d put Heinen in personally, but I don’t think that’s the reason they’re going to win or lose.

They need their best players to play like their best players. That hasn’t happened, and certainly wasn’t the case last night. Marchand needs to be more consistent, Pasta needs to get back to trusting his shot, Bergy needs to personally apologize for whatever he did to all the linesemen that’s resulting in his face off treatment, and I don’t have enough words to describe where Krejci needs to be better. I’ve been very pleased with how Rick Nash has played but he gets paid to score so he needs finish one of these somehow some way.

Jake DeBrusk should not be leading the way (although credit to him for doing so).

Rask's numbers may be great but there's no excuse for giving up that second goal last night. Softer than puppy shit. He can't play that way and expect to avoid criticism. He hasn't been the same in the last two games as he was in the first 4.
He was unbelievable last night. There’s plenty of reason for him to give up that 2nd goal - a spinaround backhander off a turnover off the post is almost impossible to read. The first goal was the bad one - that play on the puck was awful. I bet if you ask him, the first one is keeping him up at night, not the 2nd.

Even then, if he had stopped the 2nd one they’d just still be playing because the Bruins can’t fucking score. And he was otherworldly in the 3rd period.
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
In other words, it sounds simple but it’s true - they just need to play a little bit better. They’re right there, they just need to find a way to get the 50/50 plays to go their way. At this point it’s on the players to do it as they’ve done all year. To put it simply, if the lineup choice between Heinen/Wingels/Donato is what their season is riding on, then shame on all of the great players on the team because it should never come down to that.

Toronto is a great team so none of this should be surprising. It’s just dumb that 2 of the top 3 teams in the East (and 2 of the top 5 in the NHL) are playing in Round 1.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
16,090
Tuukka's refugee camp
Rask's numbers may be great but there's no excuse for giving up that second goal last night. Softer than puppy shit. He can't play that way and expect to avoid criticism. He hasn't been the same in the last two games as he was in the first 4.

Game 7 this year is a big test for him. He's 1-2 in Game 7s and hasn't really played very well in any of them (the one win was the 4-1 comeback game). He's been the starting keeper in series where the Bruins have blown a 3-0 series lead and a 3-2 series lead, and he of course has the last game of the Final again Chicago as well. He's a franchise goalie but I continue to have my doubts as to whether he's the guy to lead this team on a Cup run. He did it once but that's 5 years in the past and they came up short.

He's got to play better in Game 7.
On top of what TFP said, this thought implicitly punishes him for being good enough to make sure he hasn't gone to seven games more frequently.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,047
306, row 14
Maybe so, but the Bruins were offensively challenged in games 2 and 3, and one would think that if nothing else Donato might help on the power play. Frankly I’d get both Heiden and Donato into the mix in game 7.

Where things stand now is that if Toronto can shut down the top line, the Bruins go home.
I don’t think they are offensively challenged. They have scored 3+ in 4 of the 6 games. The shots and chances are there, the finish just wasn’t there last night (or in the 3rd on Saturday). There is no magic button they can push to start finishing. There’s luck involved, too. You can switch the lines around all you want, but at the end of the day, it’s the players that need to finish.

I’d put Heinen back in and leave it at thy. Go with the group that got them here.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,047
306, row 14
I’m more pissed at Rask for the idiotic turnover that led to the first goal to be honest. That was completely avoidable.
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
By 2 and 3, I meant “5 and 6”.
That makes more sense, but they had 45 shots on goal in Game 5 and basically spent the entire 3rd period in the Toronto end. They had more shot attempts than in any game all season. They weren’t offensively challenged in the sense that they couldn’t create offensive chances, they just couldn’t put the puck in the net.
 

timlinin8th

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2009
1,521
I don’t think they are offensively challenged. They have scored 3+ in 4 of the 6 games. The shots and chances are there, the finish just wasn’t there last night (or in the 3rd on Saturday). There is no magic button they can push to start finishing. There’s luck involved, too. You can switch the lines around all you want, but at the end of the day, it’s the players that need to finish.
The reason the finish isn’t there is because while the Bruins have had many scoring opportunities, they haven’t been from dangerous areas of the ice. From what I can see, one of the big adjustments Babcock made is that when the Bruins enter the zone and set up their attack, the Leafs are giving them the perimeter and stacking the ice in front of Anderson. The Bruins have been having issues working the puck in low, so they take the point slapper, it rebounds around, the Leafs invariably come up with it since all 5 of them are down there, and the escape into transition.

Thats why while the Bruins have been keeping the puck for far longer periods of time and carrying play, they just haven’t been able to have enough bodies to get rebounds. On the chance someone does get the puck down low, they keep trying cutesy no-look passes because there isn’t a lot of skating room between the dots, and that has been frustrating everyone.

Personnel isn’t the issue, they need to find some way to get the Leafs spread out more and create space. Whoever in the game thread said Cassidy hasn’t made the counter-adjustment is right on.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I agree wholeheartedly with timlin here. The Leafs are packing it in down low making it so hard to get anything through. The Bruins were trying to get a bit too cute too often last night instead of just letting it fly. I’m thinking of the time Pasta was breaking in on the right with an open line at the goal, but tried to toe-drag it around the D who broke it up. Someone else shortly thereafter tried to pass from right dot to left die down low. The pass had to get thru too many players and had no chance.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
35,734
Deep inside Muppet Labs
He was unbelievable last night. There’s plenty of reason for him to give up that 2nd goal - a spinaround backhander off a turnover off the post is almost impossible to read. The first goal was the bad one - that play on the puck was awful. I bet if you ask him, the first one is keeping him up at night, not the 2nd.

Even then, if he had stopped the 2nd one they’d just still be playing because the Bruins can’t fucking score. And he was otherworldly in the 3rd period.
I have to disagree: while Marchand caused the whole problem by overskating the puck in the first place, the puck went between his arm and his body. That's a terribly soft goal and he has to stop it.

Agreed on the play on the puck for the first goal, WTF was he doing?

He HAS to be better.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
35,734
Deep inside Muppet Labs
On top of what TFP said, this thought implicitly punishes him for being good enough to make sure he hasn't gone to seven games more frequently.
Doesn't matter to me. In Games 7 he hasn't been very good at all. All it would take would be playing well in one Game 7 for his reputation to improve. Hell, Tim Thomas never played well in a game 7 until 2011, and then he made it all up and then some.

Rask has to be great on Wed night. Else I think the team is going to look to move on from him.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
They may not be limiting chances but they are definitely altering the quality of those chances the last few games. Bruins aren't getting as much traffic in front to screen Anderson and they are also doing a good job of limiting the triangles for the Bruins to make passes down low.
They did limit the triangles again last night. And also did a good job to stay alert and jump on telegraphed and/or weak passes point to point. I think this is doubly damning because it feels like the Bs points are drifting in closer to change the angles and this is leaving them at risk for break aways. Drifting in also seems to be making it harder to retain the puck on the boards during the PP.

Maybe they are not drifting in - maybe it is a coached approached? Anyone who knows more care to comment?
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
16,090
Tuukka's refugee camp
Doesn't matter to me. In Games 7 he hasn't been very good at all. All it would take would be playing well in one Game 7 for his reputation to improve. Hell, Tim Thomas never played well in a game 7 until 2011, and then he made it all up and then some.

Rask has to be great on Wed night. Else I think the team is going to look to move on from him.
Why would they move on from him? They don't have anyone useful for next year coming up in the system (maybe McIntyre is a backup next year), Khudobin is an average backup, and you're choosing between a bunch of mediocrity to absolute dreck in the UFA market. Plus Tuukka has a modified NTC. This is not the year to move on from him. Especially when you are basing that off his ability to play well in four games over the 7 or so years he's been up in Boston.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
16,090
Tuukka's refugee camp
They did limit the triangles again last night. And also did a good job to stay alert and jump on telegraphed and/or weak passes point to point. I think this is doubly damning because it feels like the Bs points are drifting in closer to change the angles and this is leaving them at risk for break aways. Drifting in also seems to be making it harder to retain the puck on the boards during the PP.

Maybe they are not drifting in - maybe it is a coached approached? Anyone who knows more care to comment?
They blocked more shots across the board yesterday. I wasn't watching particularly closely but I imagine it's a combo of clogging the lanes while allowing more outside shots and being more willing to block a shot as opposed to cross-ice one timers and the like.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,047
306, row 14
The reason the finish isn’t there is because while the Bruins have had many scoring opportunities, they haven’t been from dangerous areas of the ice. From what I can see, one of the big adjustments Babcock made is that when the Bruins enter the zone and set up their attack, the Leafs are giving them the perimeter and stacking the ice in front of Anderson. The Bruins have been having issues working the puck in low, so they take the point slapper, it rebounds around, the Leafs invariably come up with it since all 5 of them are down there, and the escape into transition.

Thats why while the Bruins have been keeping the puck for far longer periods of time and carrying play, they just haven’t been able to have enough bodies to get rebounds. On the chance someone does get the puck down low, they keep trying cutesy no-look passes because there isn’t a lot of skating room between the dots, and that has been frustrating everyone.

Personnel isn’t the issue, they need to find some way to get the Leafs spread out more and create space. Whoever in the game thread said Cassidy hasn’t made the counter-adjustment is right on.
I would have them shoot more instead of looking for the extra pass, especially a low percentage cross-ice pass down low. Put it on net and create chaos in front.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
14,466
Gallows Hill
Why would they move on from him? They don't have anyone useful for next year coming up in the system (maybe McIntyre is a backup next year), Khudobin is an average backup, and you're choosing between a bunch of mediocrity to absolute dreck in the UFA market. Plus Tuukka has a modified NTC. This is not the year to move on from him. Especially when you are basing that off his ability to play well in four games over the 7 or so years he's been up in Boston.
This is an issue for another day, but they need to start looking at that position anyway. He's owed $7 million on the cap for the next three years, and is on the wrong side of 30. They're going to have to pay McAvoy and DeBrusk soon. Getting younger and cheaper at that position would help cap wise. I would look to trade Krug as well for the same reason but he has a full no trade next season which becomes an 8 team list in '19-'20. They're probably stuck with Krejci's deal.
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,380
Jesus, can we at least wait until the offseason before we start talking about getting rid of our best players?
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,209
South of North
I don't know how to copy the image in here, but here's a link to the shot chart (at the very bottom):

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201804230TOR.html

The Bruins put up a ton of shots from all over the zone. So, I guess maybe they should try and get more shots from in and around the net? I dunno. All I know is that I expect much much more of Krejci and Backes. I'd like to see some actual goals from Marshy and Pasta, but at least they are generating shots and chances. The other two can't even say that as much.

I'll also agree with @TFP that I thought the backhand goal was pretty nasty placement from in close and difficult to read. OK with that much more than the first, and really, 2 GAA should've been enough for a win last night. At least OT.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,187
You gotta like being at home for the deciding game 7. Not sure if momentum is a thing, but if it is, it's all with Toronto.

The crazy thing is that to my non-expert eyes, it sure seemed like the Bruins were carrying the play in both of the last two games, but just cannot find a way to get the puck past Andersen. So many pucks hit Toronto players. Andersen made some stops by blind luck sometimes as he was turned around and didn't even see things. Toronto scored a no-look goal last night (the winner) and I was like, are you kidding me? The Bruins seemed to be dominating play, but just not getting results. That continues for one more game and the dam is either finally going to break and Boston wins, or it's going to be one of the most frustrating series' we've seen in a while here.
That’s exactly how the last 2 games have been. Scoring chances, which have heavily favored the Bruins, backs it up.
 

FL4WL3SS

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
14,913
Andy Brickley's potty mouth
I don't know how to copy the image in here, but here's a link to the shot chart (at the very bottom):

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201804230TOR.html

The Bruins put up a ton of shots from all over the zone. So, I guess maybe they should try and get more shots from in and around the net? I dunno. All I know is that I expect much much more of Krejci and Backes. I'd like to see some actual goals from Marshy and Pasta, but at least they are generating shots and chances. The other two can't even say that as much.

I'll also agree with @TFP that I thought the backhand goal was pretty nasty placement from in close and difficult to read. OK with that much more than the first, and really, 2 GAA should've been enough for a win last night. At least OT.
The problem isn't the initial shot, it's been the inability to clean up the rebounds and win the scrums in front of the net. They are ALL getting pushed off the puck and Toronto just wants it more. Toronto is getting to literally every puck in front of the net, that was the difference last night. If the Bruins can fix that, they'll win easily tomorrow.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,478
Melrose, MA
That makes more sense, but they had 45 shots on goal in Game 5 and basically spent the entire 3rd period in the Toronto end. They had more shot attempts than in any game all season. They weren’t offensively challenged in the sense that they couldn’t create offensive chances, they just couldn’t put the puck in the net.
That’s why I said “offensively challenged” (which might still be the wrong way to put it) and not “played like crap”, which they clearly didn’t do.

I’m not sure why Cassidy thought the cure for dominating most of the game but unable to finish was Tommy Wingels.
 

NickEsasky

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2001
9,191
Toronto is a great team so none of this should be surprising. It’s just dumb that 2 of the top 3 teams in the East (and 2 of the top 5 in the NHL) are playing in Round 1.
Of course if they only beat a Florida team with nothing to play for in Game 82 Toronto would have been Tampa's problem.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,209
South of North
The problem isn't the initial shot, it's been the inability to clean up the rebounds and win the scrums in front of the net. They are ALL getting pushed off the puck and Toronto just wants it more. Toronto is getting to literally every puck in front of the net, that was the difference last night. If the Bruins can fix that, they'll win easily tomorrow.
I agree, was posting in response to others.
 

wiffleballhero

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 28, 2009
4,536
In the simulacrum
It is worth observing that the Bruins have been incredibly unlucky in these last two games and that Toronto has succeed swimmingly with a kind of modified David-vs-Goliath strategy: Toronto packs it in, conceding possession time, shot attempts and offensive zone time, and the entire perimeter. And from there they are living and dying on the production from a small handful of fast transition attempts.

What they have though is a defense that is so packed in, so willing to concede the boards that it is impossible to find shooting lanes and to have plays open up in the way they did in games 1-2. At least that is the way it looked to my eyes for much of last night.
 

nolasoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 11, 2004
6,930
Displaced
Toronto packs it in, conceding possession time, shot attempts and offensive zone time, and the entire perimeter. And from there they are living and dying on the production from a small handful of fast transition attempts.
The pre-2018 Chelsea of the NHL.
 
Last edited:

wilked

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
4,046
It is worth observing that the Bruins have been incredibly unlucky in these last two games and that Toronto has succeed swimmingly with a kind of modified David-vs-Goliath strategy: Toronto packs it in, conceding possession time, shot attempts and offensive zone time, and the entire perimeter. And from there they are living and dying on the production from a small handful of fast transition attempts.

What they have though is a defense that is so packed in, so willing to concede the boards that it is impossible to find shooting lanes and to have plays open up in the way they did in games 1-2. At least that is the way it looked to my eyes for much of last night.
Pretty clear to my eyes as well

So how do you break that strategy (4 Toronto players packed around the goal)? Fire it in hard from outside and scrap for rebounds? Is there a different strategy?
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
14,466
Gallows Hill
Pretty clear to my eyes as well

So how do you break that strategy (4 Toronto players packed around the goal)? Fire it in hard from outside and scrap for rebounds? Is there a different strategy?
That and getting to the crease and taking the goalies line of sight away. It's all about winning in front of the net when you're outnumbered, having a couple find the net, and playing with the lead so then they have to open it up.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
To be clear, scoring first is good - not giving up the equalizer in under a minute is equally important to results. Just in case any of the team or staff are reading :/
 

timlinin8th

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2009
1,521
Pretty clear to my eyes as well

So how do you break that strategy (4 Toronto players packed around the goal)? Fire it in hard from outside and scrap for rebounds? Is there a different strategy?
Some coaches will do an overload on one side with all three forwards, basically puts those defenders who are on the opposite side of the ice covering nothing. The idea is to force them to come away from the center of the ice and have to attack the overload on the perimeter since they are now outnumbered on that side - this starts reopening up the passing lanes.
 

NYCSox

chris hansen of goats
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 19, 2004
10,446
Some fancy town in CT
It's essentially the same system Montreal used on the Bruins a few years ago. In theory anyway this Bruins team should be better equipped to deal with the "pack and counter" approach.

Plus Andersen is no Carey Price.
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,145
Alamogordo
That was Tuukka's fault 100%
Agreed. I have a feeling if that softie doesn't go in last night the Bruins go up 2-0 or 3-0 pretty soon after that, because Toronto can't play for the tie and hope for a lucky bounce in their offensive zone after that.

I love Tuukka, I think he is great... but that play made it a lot harder for the Bruins to win the game last night. It's also frustrating that it feels like Toronto has scored on a much higher percentage of their chances than the Bruins have, and a lot of that is on the difference in play between Tuukka and Andersen.
 

Jordu

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2003
8,962
Brookline
I don't know how to copy the image in here, but here's a link to the shot chart (at the very bottom):

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201804230TOR.html

The Bruins put up a ton of shots from all over the zone. So, I guess maybe they should try and get more shots from in and around the net? I dunno. All I know is that I expect much much more of Krejci and Backes. I'd like to see some actual goals from Marshy and Pasta, but at least they are generating shots and chances. The other two can't even say that as much.

I'll also agree with @TFP that I thought the backhand goal was pretty nasty placement from in close and difficult to read. OK with that much more than the first, and really, 2 GAA should've been enough for a win last night. At least OT.
Here’s heat map from NaturalStatTrick.

ImageUploadedBySons of Sam Horn1524622072.032430.jpg

Bruins had their chances in front. Toronto spent the third period collapsing back to the goalie to avoid a repeat of Period 3 in Game 5. They did it effectively.

I like putting Rick Nash on the third line with Riley Nash and Backes, especially at home where the Bruins can match up.

Your best players need to be your best players, and the Bruins will need a big game out of Rask, Chara, Bergeron, Marchand and Pasta.
 

TomTerrific

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,702
Wayland, MA
The Sydney Cheers was filled with Toronto fans, Which only made the victory that much sweeter. Poor bastards. Thanks to SydneySox for clueing us in on the location,