JoKe

teddywingman

Looks like Zach Galifianakis
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2009
11,144
a basement on the hill
Am I alone in thinking that Joe Kelly is really good? The game threads read like he should pack his bags.

I don't see it. I think he might be one of the most valuable relievers in the game.

I hope I'm not wrong.
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,291
Southwestern CT
When is is on his game, Kelly is a bullpen ace. When he does not have his control, he is captain destructo and his performance is not received well in these parts. I'm not sure it's any more complex than that.

For the record, I like Kelly. But he sure as hell makes me nervous at times.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
People are especially harsh with him precisely because it seems like he should be one of the most valuable relievers in the game, and he keeps giving us tantalizing little glimpses of that guy and then reverting to the guy who can't throw strikes and probably shouldn't because he gives up rockets when he does. He seems like he should be much better than he somehow manages to be. He's like the anti-Koji.
 

Merkle's Boner

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2011
3,750
Seems like he should be striking out more than 8 per 9IP. But he's a valuable member of the pen and Sox are gonna need him throughout the year.
 

Remagellan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I can’t watch any pitcher who can’t throw strikes. It’s like the death of a thousand cuts. As stated above, when he’s throwing strikes he’s a weapon. But far too often for my liking, he’s a weapon that can explode in your hand.
 

pantsparty

Member
SoSH Member
May 2, 2011
553
Between his change, slider, and curve, he can pretty much always find at least one offspeed pitch that's working for him on any given night, but he really gets into trouble when he can't locate his fastball. On nights where he does have good fastball command man is he fun to watch.
 

uk_sox_fan

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 11, 2006
1,273
London, England
I can’t watch any pitcher who can’t throw strikes. It’s like the death of a thousand cuts. As stated above, when he’s throwing strikes he’s a weapon. But far too often for my liking, he’s a weapon that can explode in your hand.
Last year he appeared in 54 games. In 2 of the first 10 games (both in April) he melted down with 2 BBs and it cost them brutally. After that, however, he had exactly one game in 44 appearances where he walked more than one batter and in that appearance he struck out the side and avoided any damage. He has a higher BB/9 rate than he should, but his 'disastrous' outings where he couldn't find the plate have been limited to those two April outings in 2017 and his one 3 walk outing this year.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,236
Joe Kelly, game 1: 0.1 ip, 1 h, 4 r, 4 er, 3 bb, 1 k, 108.01 era, 12.00 whip
Joe Kelly, games 2-7: 6.1 ip, 3 h, 0 r, 0 er, 1 bb, 5 k, 0.00 era, 0.63 whip
 

dwhogan

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2011
323
The 'bury
Plus 1 HBP...
Stuff like this that makes him exactly who I want to have backing up Kimbrell. Kelly has an attitude, and he doesn't wonder about whether or not he should send a message to a kid named "Tyler Austin" who looks like he'd get you drunk, tuck you in, and then try to smang your girlfriend (or boyfriend, this is an all-inclusive community).

 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Stuff like this that makes him exactly who I want to have backing up Kimbrell. Kelly has an attitude, and he doesn't wonder about whether or not he should send a message to a kid named "Tyler Austin" who looks like he'd get you drunk, tuck you in, and then try to smang your girlfriend (or boyfriend, this is an all-inclusive community).

This is tired.

Over on NYYfans or whatever, there's some poster writing about how much he loves Tyler Austin because he has an attitude and refuses to be intimidated as a rookie by a pitcher trying to send him a message.
 

dwhogan

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2011
323
The 'bury
This is tired.

Over on NYYfans or whatever, there's some poster writing about how much he loves Tyler Austin because he has an attitude and refuses to be intimidated as a rookie by a pitcher trying to send him a message.
I know, it's nice to have a little bitterness again. Baseball only benefits from Red Sox/Yankees having a little bit of edge. That energy helps to make the game enjoyable, and keeps us from the misery that comes when you have a joyless season. The last two seasons had plenty of reasons to be happy about the team, but it felt like the negative publicity that seemed to follow each story started to make it harder to watch. Sure, winning cures that and we'll see what happens to them when they face adversity, but instances like the Kelly/Austin fight certainly can't hurt cohesiveness. Think about the A-Rod/Arroyo fight in '04, how they went into the 9th inning down a pair facing Rivera. Mueller goes yard, and Mariano never felt as untouchable after that. I'm sure I'd hate Joe Kelly if he were a Yankee but, he's not.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
Kelly is what he is - a middle reliever. In the specialization era, it's true that there are some setup guys who approach elite status, but for 99% of guys, "middle reliever" = "not good enough to either start or close," for whatever reason.

He has more upside than most - potential closer with his stuff IF he could harness it. But if my aunt had {male gonads} she'd be my uncle.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,236
Kelly is what he is - a middle reliever. In the specialization era, it's true that there are some setup guys who approach elite status, but for 99% of guys, "middle reliever" = "not good enough to either start or close," for whatever reason.

He has more upside than most - potential closer with his stuff IF he could harness it. But if my aunt had {male gonads} she'd be my uncle.
The way bullpens are evolving, "middle reliever" isn't what it used to be. They are real weapons now. If starters are going to be asked to go only like 5-6 innings, then the 6th and 7th innings are of enormous significance.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
63,822
The way bullpens are evolving, "middle reliever" isn't what it used to be. They are real weapons now. If starters are going to be asked to go only like 5-6 innings, then the 6th and 7th innings are of enormous significance.
I'm not sure any of the innings have become more significant--he's just saying that Kelly is someone in between.

There's always something in between the stuff on the ends.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,236
Well if the playoffs last year were any indication, they matter a lot more than they used to. Why else would Cleveland (and other teams doing similar things) pitch their best reliever in innings 5-7 as much as they could? They game-planned for that.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,595
Maine
Well if the playoffs last year were any indication, they matter a lot more than they used to. Why else would Cleveland (and other teams doing similar things) pitch their best reliever in innings 5-7 as much as they could? They game-planned for that.
The Indians did that in 2016 because a) they had the hottest reliever in the game willing to pitch as much as needed and b) their rotation was a bit wrecked by injury. They only had three healthy starters in the post-season and one of them sliced his hand open playing with a drone during the ALCS. They were trying to conserve them as much as possible, starting on 3-days rest usually. I'm not so sure they went with the strategy of going to the bullpen early and often as a first choice.
 

Pozo the Clown

New Member
Sep 13, 2006
744
The Indians did that in 2016 because a) they had the hottest reliever in the game willing to pitch as much as needed and b) their rotation was a bit wrecked by injury. They only had three healthy starters in the post-season and one of them sliced his hand open playing with a drone during the ALCS. They were trying to conserve them as much as possible, starting on 3-days rest usually. I'm not so sure they went with the strategy of going to the bullpen early and often as a first choice.
The Indians went to Miller in the 5th inning of Game 1 against the Sox. I suspect there was some game-planning involved right from the git go. Trevor Bauer (pre-drone) started that game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE201610060.shtml
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,595
Maine
The Indians went to Miller in the 5th inning of Game 1 against the Sox. I suspect there was some game-planning involved right from the git go. Trevor Bauer (pre-drone) started that game.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE201610060.shtml
No doubt there was some planning for it, but it wasn't plan A is my point.. It was a reaction to the state of their rotation. My guess is that if they had had Carrasco and Salazar healthy (Salazar did come back to relieve in the WS), they likely approach things a bit differently through that post-season.

Additionally, I think Andrew Miller and how he was used was the exception to the rule rather than an indication of some new trend in bullpen usage. Case in point being that they didn't continue to use him much in that way during the regular season last year (7 games of 57 he entered in the 6th, never earlier).
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,951
Newton
In the wake of the fight, I’m starting to think Kelly is becoming something of a leader on this team:


(Also, this pic is awesome – some of the comments ask why Hanley brought his kid)
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,201
South of North
In the wake of the fight, I’m starting to think Kelly is becoming something of a leader on this team:


(Also, this pic is awesome – some of the comments ask why Hanley brought his kid)
Glad to see Price being part of that crew. I want him to be happy here and I would think that would help his performance (at least in the sense that a negative experience could hurt).

[/armchairfreud]
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2012
38,128
Last night OB said that Joe Kelly got the ball rolling to see who wanted to go. He also said that Porcello got a bunch of players together earlier in the day to go watch Supertroopers. These guys like to hang out.

JoKe's curveball last night had serious break on it.
They still took 25 separate cabs.
 

JohnnyTheBone

Member
SoSH Member
May 28, 2007
36,275
Nobody Cares
"At least take me to dinner first." ~ Fightin' Joe Kelly, in the wake of his 6-game suspension being upheld while Joe Torre reduced Tyler Austin's by a game.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
4,946
Fucking Joe Torre. This and the beanball punishment last year, someone’s gotta call him out.
 

trekfan55

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 29, 2004
11,567
Panama
So the team plays with 24 players during the suspension, or do they get to call up a bullpen arm?

And yes this is a joke. And Pedro called Joe Torre out on MLB Network the night of the fight.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,136
Yankee Joe might argue that given usage patterns they are sort of equivalent—but of course, that’s the problem.
 

Wayapman

New Member
Aug 19, 2012
94
In the wake of the fight, I’m starting to think Kelly is becoming something of a leader on this team:


(Also, this pic is awesome – some of the comments ask why Hanley brought his kid)
This is driving me crazy. Who's the guy up front in white? And the 2 guys in between Swihart and Sale? You'd think them not wearing a hat wouldn't make such a difference
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,595
Maine
This is driving me crazy. Who's the guy up front in white? And the 2 guys in between Swihart and Sale? You'd think them not wearing a hat wouldn't make such a difference
Between Sale and Swihart is Brian Johnson and Drew Pomeranz. Guy in white? I'm stumped.
 

Pozo the Clown

New Member
Sep 13, 2006
744
Marcus Walden was optioned to Pawtucket last Fri when Pom was activated, so it's unlikely that he was in Toronto on Mon night.
 

teddywingman

Looks like Zach Galifianakis
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2009
11,144
a basement on the hill
WEEI has an article up (sorry, can't link... and weei doesn't deserve more clicks) about Joe Kelly watching today's game. Because of the suspension, he can't be in any 'team sponsored' areas-- like the clubhouse. So instead he's watching games from the stands, sitting all over the park-- from the monster seats to the bleachers-- moving from place to place depending on how the team is doing.
 

Adrian's Dome

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2010
4,424
I've never liked Joe Kelly, but him watching games from the stands during a suspension is really swaying me. The dude clearly cares and he's really coming off as a team player that has his teammates' back.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2006
35,616
Maui
Got to chat him up a bit over a couple days at Shane Victorino’s golf weekend here on Maui a few years ago. He seemed like a pretty cool dude then.