2018 Patriots Roster

tims4wins

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Not sure what was confusing.

I can easily imagine why he would not want to be back and can easily imagine why the Pats would not want him back.

What remains unanswered in the article is whether the Pats said goodbye or he did. Or whether it was a mutual parting. Despite your response to me, the article never revealed how it came about.
Sure. True. I guess I just don't care. It is like Chris Long's departure... but on a far, far, far less important scale.
 

TheoShmeo

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Sure. True. I guess I just don't care. It is like Chris Long's departure... but on a far, far, far less important scale.
Understood. Not a player that moves the needle much. And Shelton's addition makes him even less important. It was more of a comment on the article than the substance. In any event, onward and upward, and to hopefully much more important Pats news in the days and weeks to come.
 

streeter88

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Regarding RJF, although it made no difference to how well he contributed to the team's success, the narrative around his Dunkin Donuts franchises made him more likeable as well as maybe a bit more of a role model than some other players might be. Here was a guy who recognised that playing football was a very temporary gift, and took steps to future-proof his earnings. For me, that was the major loss in him leaving, and I suspect that too will be replaced quickly.

Each year brings a new group of players who combine to form, storm, norm, and perform as a team, and for me that is part of the fun of watching the Patriots.

Edited: dangling chads
 

Van Everyman

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If the Pats actually are serious about pursuing Suh, that makes a lot of sense. Character issues aside, they lack more than 1-2 guys in the front 7 who are legitimate difference makers (Flowers and Hightower, when healthy).

I'm not sure I expect it to happen as I suspect he will still command big dollars but a guy like Suh changes that equation considerably.
 

BaseballJones

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Running tab on who the Pats have lost and gained?

Lost:
OT Solder
CB Butler
RB Lewis
LB McLellin
TE Bennett
WR Reedy
WR Amendola

Gained:
CB McCourty
RB Hill
DE Clayborn
OT Tobin
WR Patterson
DT Shelton

Who am I missing?
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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I thought we released Branch as well, but can't seem to find that anywhere. I have a hard time keeping up with the off-season.
They didn't pick up the option.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22670136/new-england-patriots-let-go-alan-branch-keep-kenny-britt

The New England Patriots have informed veteran defensive tackle Alan Branch that they don't intend to pick up his $1 million option for the 2018 season, a source confirmed.

Branch will become a free agent at the start of the 2018 league year on March 14.
 

BigSoxFan

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What are the projections on Garcia? Good enough to.start?
It may be a little unrealistic but I’m expecting somewhere between Bruce Armstrong and Anthony Munoz once Dante is done with him.
 

JohnnyK

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Contract details for OT Matt Tobin: 1 year, $815,000. The deal doesn't include a signing bonus. Tobin gets a base salary of $790,000, and can earn an additional $25,000 in a workout bonus. His salary-cap charge is $655,000.
 

tims4wins

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What are the projections on Garcia? Good enough to.start?
The Pats moved up in the draft to select him so have to imagine they saw some good potential. Wonder if they even projected him to replace Solder, but the blood clot situation derailed that
 

Super Nomario

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What are the projections on Garcia? Good enough to.start?
We should temper expectations for 2018, to be sure. First, there aren't a lot of 3rd-rounders who go on to be good left tackles - it's kind of an upside home run swing at that point. Second, the book on Garcia coming out was a great athlete but light. I'm looking at the 2017 ITP Draft Guide (have I mentioned you can pre-order the 2018 edition now?) and it talks about his "tall, lanky frame" and some issues with anchoring against power and lower body strength. He weighed 302 at the Combine (which isn't that heavy for a 6'6" guy) and rumors were he played a lot lighter for Troy. That's not a great setup for a disease that causes him to lose weight. So, coming out, Garcia was a promising athlete who needed to beef up in an NFL weight room and refine his technique; instead, he lost a bunch of weight and got little if any technique work. Anything we get from him in 2018 is probably a bonus at this point.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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We should temper expectations for 2018, to be sure. First, there aren't a lot of 3rd-rounders who go on to be good left tackles - it's kind of an upside home run swing at that point. Second, the book on Garcia coming out was a great athlete but light. I'm looking at the 2017 ITP Draft Guide (have I mentioned you can pre-order the 2018 edition now?) and it talks about his "tall, lanky frame" and some issues with anchoring against power and lower body strength. He weighed 302 at the Combine (which isn't that heavy for a 6'6" guy) and rumors were he played a lot lighter for Troy. That's not a great setup for a disease that causes him to lose weight. So, coming out, Garcia was a promising athlete who needed to beef up in an NFL weight room and refine his technique; instead, he lost a bunch of weight and got little if any technique work. Anything we get from him in 2018 is probably a bonus at this point.
Great athlete, 6'6" 250ish, eh...how are his hands?
 

SMU_Sox

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Jul 20, 2009
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I think Dwayne Allen might stick around in 2018 even at 5m but do not think he will stay in 2019 at 7.4m unless he extends and takes less money. Dwayne Allen’s blocking helps this offense which will most likely be starting a LT in 2018 worse than Solder. Gronk is always an injury concern. Allen might improve in year 2 as a receiver but even if he doesn’t he has a high floor as a blocker. Hollister saw the field in year 1 as a UDFA and wasn’t afraid to take some vicious hits. That he even saw the field in year 1 impressed me. I do expect the Pats to take a tight end and wouldn’t be surprised to see them target one of the higher end guys like a Hurst, Goedert, or Gesicki in round 2. At the beginning of the off-season I expected the Pats to jettison Allen but he helps mask a potential weakness and his block was top notch. He has a fit in 2018.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Bringing back an athletic LB who knows the system...solid. Like it. Now just draft a starting LT, a speedy pass rusher or two, one at LB, and the team will be in very good shape.
 

Saints Rest

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Bringing back an athletic LB who knows the system...solid. Like it. Now just draft a starting LT, a speedy pass rusher or two, one at LB, and the team will be in very good shape.
It seems like the draft needs now (i.e. post Waddle signing) have all moved down from Urgent to Important. Put another way, they are now likely drafting for depth/competition at all positions which means that they can take the guy they like most with each pick.

Areas of concern (but lesser concern than they were a month ago):
-- LT (Waddle's signing and Garcia's health)
-- Edge Rusher (Clayborn, plus the hopeful return to health of Rivers)
-- RB (Burkhead and Hill)
-- TE (well, they haven't lost either Gronk or Allen. yet)
-- CB (JMcC)
-- KR (Patterson)
-- QB (they still have the MVP, and his backup, but Age beckons)
 

Mystic Merlin

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The likelihood of finding instant starters in the draft is routinely overestimated. Strategic retention/free agent acquisitions and development of players drafted in '15, '16 and '17 are the most likely sources of stability or improvement in 2018. They really need players like Wise, Rivers, Shelton, and Flowets to take strides if this defense is going to improve. It would help if Hightower didn't miss the back half of the year, too.
 

dcmissle

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The likelihood of finding instant starters in the draft is routinely overestimated. Strategic retention/free agent acquisitions and development of players drafted in '15, '16 and '17 are the most likely sources of stability or improvement in 2018. They really need players like Wise, Rivers, Shelton, and Flowets to take strides if this defense is going to improve. It would help if Hightower didn't miss the back half of the year, too.
SN has made this point, you’ve now made it, and it can’t be stressed enough. It varies by position to be sure — RBs fairly routinely contribute out of the chute — and there are exceptional individuals at every position, but counting on draftees to step in as starters is not very realistic. And when you’re picking at the end of every round ...
 

BigJimEd

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This should all be covered under the drug policy, correct?
I believe first violation means treatment and entering NFLs program. I think a player can actually have two violations for weed before a suspension.
 

dcmissle

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This should all be covered under the drug policy, correct?
I believe first violation means treatment and entering NFLs program. I think a player can actually have two violations for weed before a suspension.
Once in “the program”, you have a choice: stop; face a suspension ( because they can test, whenever)

What are you betting on?
 

dbn

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SN has made this point, you’ve now made it, and it can’t be stressed enough. It varies by position to be sure — RBs fairly routinely contribute out of the chute — and there are exceptional individuals at every position, but counting on draftees to step in as starters is not very realistic. And when you’re picking at the end of every round ...
Absolutely. However...

Haven't the NEP had a recent track record of drafting talent on defense that barely saw the field early in the season, got a little play through the middle of it, and became important contributors by the time playoffs come around? (Sorry for the lazy post not doing my homework but it's late and I'm on my way to sleepy-time.)

I'm thinking their talent/coaching is enough, as is, to get through the season with playoffs likely, so finding a pick or picks that don't need to start from week 1 is more okay for them than it is for most teams. Anyhow, just thinking out loud.
 

streeter88

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Just saw a clip from ESPN - again I don't know why I bother - where one of the panellists said "I am a little worried about left tackle... but they've earned the benefit of the doubt", and another said "Just from a player loss standpoint, we're seeing some cracks where... I wouldn't say it's all the way foolproof, to where it's not a guarantee they're getting back to the Super Bowl this season".

I had to listen to that last one multiple times to make sure I got it right. Maybe would have been clearer with some Costa Rican blend...
 

Super Nomario

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Absolutely. However...

Haven't the NEP had a recent track record of drafting talent on defense that barely saw the field early in the season, got a little play through the middle of it, and became important contributors by the time playoffs come around? (Sorry for the lazy post not doing my homework but it's late and I'm on my way to sleepy-time.)
Not really. Jamie Collins was definitely like this. Malcolm Butler was sort of like this, though he didn't play a lot in the pre-SB playoff games (and didn't really play a lot in the SB, just showed up in key spots). There are guys like Logan Ryan who took a few weeks to get their footing but were regular contributors from week 5 or so. There are also guys who contributed early / mid-season and then saw their snaps scaled back come playoff time - Wise last year, Elandon Roberts in 2016, Tavon Wilson. For the most part, rookies either a) do nothing (Flowers, a bunch of guys who have been useless) or b) are depth pieces right off the bat (whether playing a lot like Jones and Hightower or rotating in like Valentine or Harmon), but not big-time contributors.
 

dcmissle

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Going back a bit, I recall Asante Samuel being a late contributor as well. To your point, it seems that most rookies get squeezed in one fashion or other if they contribute much in their first year at all. Either takes them all of preseason through late fall to get on track, or they are fast out of the chute and hitting the proverbial wall. Rarely can you count on 16 or 19 or whatever. If forced to choose, I’d rather have them late, but the sensible default would seem to be that you can’t count on it.
 

tims4wins

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Nitpick but didn’t Wise play regular snaps in the playoffs but reduced in the Super Bowl after he sufferred the concussion?
 

Saints Rest

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Going back a bit, I recall Asante Samuel being a late contributor as well. To your point, it seems that most rookies get squeezed in one fashion or other if they contribute much in their first year at all. Either takes them all of preseason through late fall to get on track, or they are fast out of the chute and hitting the proverbial wall. Rarely can you count on 16 or 19 or whatever. If forced to choose, I’d rather have them late, but the sensible default would seem to be that you can’t count on it.
The Pats have had multiple OLinemen over the years who were starters either from Day One, or fairly early in his Rookie year: Thuney, Mason, Storm, Solder, Vollmer, Mankins, Light, Koppen. In fact, for the most part, a Pats drafted OLinemen either starts by middle of his rookie season and ends up being a long-time starter, or he’s a nothing burger. Cannon (as a late bloomer) and Stork (as a late washout) are about the only notable exceptions.
Looking back thru the years, it seems that there is usually one Year One major contributor, one slow developing later contributor, and one useful role player from each draft
 

Infield Infidel

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https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/20/17143874/nfl-draft-2018-free-agent-tackles-getting-rich-college-prospects
SBNation had an interesting article written by a lineman talking about why mid-tier linemen are getting bigger paydays. He says that since more and more college teams are playing spread offenses, there are few guys getting coached pro-style techniques and are pro-ready from day one.

Since lineman have longer careers, this wasn't as big a problem say 10 years ago when spread offense started taking off, or even 5 years ago, but now that a lot of older lineman have retired, and and aren't getting replaced by pro-ready draftees, the imbalance gets worse every year. Teams need tackles who won't get their QB killed, and there are few ready day one, and the other guys need more time to develop. So average vets look better and better and are cashing in.

Teams really only have a few options if they don't have an elite tackle:

1. Land one of the few pro-ready guys in the draft, if there are any.
2. Pay a premium for a mid-tier guy who's good but not great and won't kill you.
3. Play a guy who isn't good but is cheap and hope he develops.

If the difference between your #2 guy, who's a free agent, and #3 guy isn't that large, and there's a guy in the draft who you like and think you can get, who could be as good as the #3 guy by year two, then that option starts looking good.
 
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lexrageorge

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Going back a bit, I recall Asante Samuel being a late contributor as well. To your point, it seems that most rookies get squeezed in one fashion or other if they contribute much in their first year at all. Either takes them all of preseason through late fall to get on track, or they are fast out of the chute and hitting the proverbial wall. Rarely can you count on 16 or 19 or whatever. If forced to choose, I’d rather have them late, but the sensible default would seem to be that you can’t count on it.
Asante Samuel was primarily the nickel back in his rookie year, as the Pats had both Ty Law and Tyrone Poole (12 combined INT's) as their starting corners. He took the starting job for good midway through the 2004 season after Law got hurt.

Eugene Wilson was drafted the same year, and jumped right into the starting safety spot, replacing Lawyer Milloy.
 

tims4wins

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Bedard on BSJ opined that Wise's role was reduced because he wasn't setting the edge well enough.
I could buy that. Everyone has talked about the Butler benching but Harrison playing like 60 snaps in the SB while Wise only played 6 seemed like another coaching misstep.
 

Saints Rest

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The Pats have had multiple OLinemen over the years who were starters either from Day One, or fairly early in his Rookie year: Thuney, Mason, Storm, Solder, Vollmer, Mankins, Light, Koppen. In fact, for the most part, a Pats drafted OLinemen either starts by middle of his rookie season and ends up being a long-time starter, or he’s a nothing burger. Cannon (as a late bloomer) and Stork (as a late washout) are about the only notable exceptions.
Looking back thru the years, it seems that there is usually one Year One major contributor, one slow developing later contributor, and one useful role player from each draft
Expanding on that last point, looking back the last 10 years:
Year: Major immediate contributor / slow-developing contributor / role player
  • 2008: Mayo / none / Slater
  • 2009: Vollmer / Edelman / Chung (role player in his first go-round)
  • 2010: DMcC, Gronk, Hernandez / Spikes / Zoltan
  • 2011: Solder / Ridley, Vereen, Cannon / none
  • 2012: Jones, Hightower / Dennard (a bit of stretch maybe) / Wilson
  • 2013: Collins / Harmon, Ryan / none
  • 2014: Stork / White, Easley / Fleming
  • 2015: Brown, Mason / Flowers / Cardona
  • 2016: Thuney / Mitchell, Roberts / Karras
  • 2017: incomplete
 

Super Nomario

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Expanding on that last point, looking back the last 10 years:
Year: Major immediate contributor / slow-developing contributor / role player
  • 2008: Mayo / none / Slater
  • 2009: Vollmer / Edelman / Chung (role player in his first go-round)
  • 2010: DMcC, Gronk, Hernandez / Spikes / Zoltan
  • 2011: Solder / Ridley, Vereen, Cannon / none
  • 2012: Jones, Hightower / Dennard (a bit of stretch maybe) / Wilson
  • 2013: Collins / Harmon, Ryan / none
  • 2014: Stork / White, Easley / Fleming
  • 2015: Brown, Mason / Flowers / Cardona
  • 2016: Thuney / Mitchell, Roberts / Karras
  • 2017: incomplete
I disagree with a lot of these. I'd put Edelman, Harmon, Roberts, and maybe Spikes in the "role player" bucket. Vereen, Cannon, White, and Flowers all barely played as rookies and shouldn't even be on the chart. Easley was a role player and then got hurt. Stork, Mason, and Vollmer are probably second bucket guys; they didn't start off the year playing a lot but ended up starting later. Arguably Solder too, though he played a lot since Vollmer was hurt. Collins definitely didn't contribute right away; he did nothing until the playoffs.

EDIT: while for the most part your assessments were rosy, you did miss Vincent Valentine (role player 2016), Tre' Jackson (role player 2015), Aaron Dobson (slow-developing contributor 2013), and Deatrich Wise (maybe even an "immediate contributor?") and it looks like you didn't have UDFAs at all (which would have added M.Butler, A.Butler, Andrews, and others).
 
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