Liverpool 2017-18: Salah Days are Here

fletcherpost · Feb 7, 2018

SoxFanInCali said:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11237166/what-referee-jon-moss-said-to-assistant-ed-smart-for-controversial-tottenham-penalty-against-liverpool

Moss admits he didn't see whether Lovren touched the ball, which is what the linesman was asking about to negate Kane being offside. He then (improperly) asks the 4th official if he can see anything from a TV replay. Yet, he decides to give the penalty anyways.

There's something wrong with the offside rule the way it's interpreted here. Kane shouldn't be onside if it goes off of Lovren, because the only reason he tried to play it was because Kane was behind him in an offside position. I get it if the original pass was meant for someone else, Lovren shanks it, and it goes to Kane, but in this case, the original pass was meant for an offside Kane. Expecting a defender to realize that he needs to let the ball go to get the offside call is dumb and against every instinct a player has.

Did you see the Klopp post match press conference? He was i think genuinely asking the journalists re: offside "is it a new rule" - I mean when a manager 100% isn't sure what is and isn't offside we have a problem and i reckon he's not the only manager.

kbourdon · Feb 8, 2018

It just amazes me how shocking we are in defense still even with Van Dijk in the team. Now granted yes the penalties should not have been given, but if we defended properly we wouldn't have been in this position. My coach always said don't leave it to the referees make sure its clear. That is one of our problems we honestly don't know how to defend. I understand we want to catch teams on the counter but when we can't defend set pieces or just clear the ball it's a major problem.

SocrManiac · Feb 8, 2018

Don't get me wrong, they aren't great defensively yet, but the Spurs game is certainly no reflection of that. Quite the opposite- they dealt very well with a prolific and explosive attack with some incredible talent behind it.

The Wanyama goal was set up by the goalkeeper beating away a cross he should comfortably have caught. As it was, the punch was awful. Hard to pin that on the defense.

The Kane penalty was two blown calls.

The Lamela penalty was two blown calls on a freak play.

Van Dijk has had a month to work with his new teammates. He's clearly meant to marshal the defense, but that'll require that he develop an understanding of their talents and the language to communicate effectively with them. One major positive has been Lovren's short-term semi-rebirth. I don't think Lovren is a particularly smart man. He seemed to have been tasked with captaining the defense. With Van Dijk installed in that role and doing the thinking for him, he seems far more serviceable.

More concerning is Van Dijk's early relationship with Karius. There were two instances where Van Dijk expected Karius to be collecting and it was nearly disastrous as a result. That call is never the defender's to make and the issue needs to get sorted immediately. If Karius isn't opening his mouth, that needs to be addressed by Achterberg (who brings his own special suck). Regardless, the hierarchy needs to be established and followed.

I've seen far more positive than negative from the defense in the past few weeks. A new player isn't an instant fix for anything, but they are certainly improving.

Schnerres · Feb 8, 2018

SocrManiac said:
The Wanyama goal was set up by the goalkeeper beating away a cross he should comfortably have caught. As it was, the punch was awful. Hard to pin that on the defense.

Have you seen Can and Oxlade on that goal? What´s your opinion on both of them? In that scene, both guys are defenders. So say something about Can and Oxlade and how that goal (ball is punched away 20m from goal, and we´ve heard your take on Karius´suck) is hard to pin on the defense (minus the keeper)?

--> All is not lost, after Karius punches that ball away, so...let´s see where this goes...

SocrManiac · Feb 8, 2018

The majority of LFC's problems defensively have been caused by the back four. Credit where it's due for their organization.

I don't have a problem with Can's positioning. Are you referring to his attempted clearance?

Ox's effort was certainly poor, but no more to blame than Karius for creating the situation in the first place.

JayMags71 · Feb 8, 2018

SocrManiac said:
Don't get me wrong, they aren't great defensively yet, but the Spurs game is certainly no reflection of that. Quite the opposite- they dealt very well with a prolific and explosive attack with some incredible talent behind it.

The Wanyama goal was set up by the goalkeeper beating away a cross he should comfortably have caught. As it was, the punch was awful. Hard to pin that on the defense.

You’re right, but at the same time, that was kind of a lucky strike by Wanyama, wasn’t it? Does he have a history of making those shots? I’m just a little curious about how many times out of a hundred Wanyama makes that shot on net, much less in the net.

One major positive has been Lovren's short-term semi-rebirth. I don't think Lovren is a particularly smart man.

This made me laugh. I admit, until he screwed up with off the field issues under Klopp, I was leading the mob for Sakho to be kept over him. I was way off.

SocrManiac · Feb 8, 2018

JayMags71 said:
You’re right, but at the same time, that was kind of a lucky strike by Wanyama, wasn’t it? Does he have a history of making those shots? I’m just a little curious about how many times out of a hundred Wanyama makes that shot on net, much less in the net.

I think the point was that if Ox puts him off, even a little, it goes from a 5% chance of being on net to a fraction of a percent.

teddykgb · Feb 8, 2018

Liverpool commit men to the ball like crazy. Your attack is so prolific because you press and bring players forward quickly to support. I think you could dust off any defender in history and they'd look lousy at times because the system asks a lot of them.

This doesn't excuse all goals of course. I think a better keeper would give the defenders some margin of error as well. This is analogous to what happened at City where the commitment to attack left the back looking weak whole Bravo imploded. Ederson shows up and mostly the same players look reinvented.

JayMags71 · Feb 8, 2018

SocrManiac said:
I think the point was that if Ox puts him off, even a little, it goes from a 5% chance of being on net to a fraction of a percent.

OK, that’s fair.

Schnerres · Feb 8, 2018

Can had the ball rolling over his foot. And Oxlade was caught sleeping when Wanyama went for the ball (or at first pressing a waiting Can who missed the ball) and then couldn´t make a move. Why should Can not be at fault here? Oxlade, okay, that´s a minor fault with a huge ending, as he slept a split second and then couldn´t reach Wanyama. From behind goal camera you can see Oxlade standing closer to Liverpools goal than Wanyama when Karius is punching the ball.

You said multiple times it was (mainly) Karius´ fault when both guys made mistakes closer to the goalscoring action.

Mighty Joe Young · Feb 14, 2018

Well that was certainly fun. A resounding away thumping of Porto. A true statement game for the rest of Europe.

However, I dont think this speaks to the current dominance of the Premier League. Watching Liverpool's games against the league's bus parkers rather illustrates that it really is the only effective strategy. When Liverpool come up against lesser sides that actually try to play football they have no chance.

Clears Cleaver · Feb 14, 2018

Firmino was excellent today all over the field. And Mane’ didn’t suck. The third goal was beautiful.

Salah is just so f’n good. He is so confident with the ball. My goodness that goal was tremendous.

But the best part was the way the midfield and defense played together. VVD was class all game and the backs all looked so much better.

Given the Europa disaster, getting to the final 8 is nice. And they’ll be a tough out whomever they get

CPT Neuron · Feb 24, 2018

Workman like 3 points today - nice to be 2nd in the table, and unless there is a ManU win, they'll be there by close of the day tomorrow as well!

Clears Cleaver · Feb 26, 2018

67YAZ said:
Great to see Liverpool take care of business and pick up an expected 3 points. This squad has really improved in this regard.

Clyne played 90 for the U-23 side this weekend. Trent has been really fantastic as of late, but having an excellent veteran option to rotate in down the stretch is a must given that Gomez seems relegated to U-23 CB right now,

Down to the last 10 matches of the EPL and still alive in the CL. The 5 goal lead on Porto means Klopp can rotate with Newcastle and ManU in mind. Four points from those two fixtures would set up the stretch run where 'Pool play four mid-table sides, three relegation battlers, and Chelsea. Top 4 or bust!

Getting 3 or more from ManU and Chelsea I think should keep them in top 4 given schedule and others schedules. Of course the post-cooutinho Swansea week is still in back of my mind.

Regardless, it’s been a fun year so far and Foundation is there for next couple years.

Excuse my ignorance, but who would be next in CL or is it a redraw?

CPT Neuron · Feb 26, 2018

It was nice to see Klopp mention (a quote from the Echo this AM) that Gomez's future is central - I'm salivating over VVD and Gomez and the central defense pairing for the next several years....and, honestly, if TAA can transfer the defensive lessons from his time at RB this year, incorporate them into the rest of his skill set, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him blossom out to be a very good "6" down the road.

pedro1918 · Feb 26, 2018

Clears Cleaver said:
Excuse my ignorance, but who would be next in CL or is it a redraw?

Re-draw on March 16th.

Zomp · Feb 26, 2018

Its a redraw with no restrictions, so you can draw a team from the same country and the order of home/away is random.

Clears Cleaver · Feb 26, 2018

thanks, gents

swiftaw · Feb 26, 2018

The only CL team that really scares me is Bayern. I think Barca and Real can be scored on.

teddykgb · Feb 27, 2018

swiftaw said:
The only CL team that really scares me is Bayern. I think Barca and Real can be scored on.

You probably should be scared of a fair few more. I don't blame you for feeling like you might turn over City given the success you've had at Anfield but if you're not terrified of having Messi running at your leaky back line then i'd suggest you just haven't thought about it enough.

CPT Neuron · Feb 28, 2018

With the right draw, and by that I mean 2nd leg at Anfield, I think the current team will be a difficult out over 2 legs for any of the teams left. I'm starting to think the defense is tightening up enough to know how to play to keep things close and tight during an away match, and then let the horses run on the home track.

I agree, house money at this point for sure, but why not hold out just a little hope of a bit of a miracle run....

SocrManiac · Feb 28, 2018

Liverpool’s biggest improvement of late (since Coutinho left, really) has been a burgeoning ability to crack teams that cede possession and put 10 behind the ball. Even the threat of being able to unlock that tactic makes them more difficult to plan against.

Porto’s ineptitude aside, even in the current stage virtually every team should be a tough out. I don’t know that I’d want to pick a poison.

And, just as a general rule, Messi has made virtually every back line leaky for the past ten years, though last year’s Juventus side might disagree.

SoxFanInCali · Mar 4, 2018

So, with City running away with it and Arsenal Wengering their way through the season, it's really down to four teams fighting it out for the other three Top 4 slots. Liverpool are 7 points and +11 in GD on Chelsea with 9 games to go. The teams play in the penultimate game of the season at the Bridge, and other than a visit from Spurs, Chelsea's schedule isn't that tough down the stretch, but those 7 points do give Liverpool some margin for error. United and Spurs both have games with Man City left as well, so there's a decent chance of some dropped points there.

Porto at Anfield on Tuesday. With the 5-0 lead from the first leg I'd expect to see some key players rested with an eye on Saturday's lunchtime kickoff at Old Trafford.

cgori · Mar 6, 2018

Comcast not having FS2 is so annoying on days like this.

SoxFanInCali · Mar 6, 2018

At least it's on ESPN Deportes. Reminds me of 10-15 years ago when half of the soccer I could watch would be in Spanish.

cgori · Mar 6, 2018

SoxFanInCali said:
At least it's on ESPN Deportes. Reminds me of 10-15 years ago when half of the soccer I could watch would be in Spanish.

Thanks! I spaced out on looking there.

Vinho Tinto · Mar 6, 2018

SoxFanInCali said:
At least it's on ESPN Deportes. Reminds me of 10-15 years ago when half of the soccer I could watch would be in Spanish.

Another old school way of viewing matches is using reddit soccer stream forum. Most matches can be found there with a mobile friendly option.

SoxFanInCali · Mar 6, 2018

Vinho Tinto said:
Another old school way of viewing matches is using reddit soccer stream forum. Most matches can be found there with a mobile friendly option.

Yeah, back in the day it would usually be an internet stream of a Spanish language broadcast.

cgori · Mar 6, 2018

Vinho Tinto said:
Another old school way of viewing matches is using reddit soccer stream forum. Most matches can be found there with a mobile friendly option.

I might have already thought of this idea

- just venting my frustration with paying for cable that doesn't have half of the matches. When I moved last year I switched from DirecTV to Comcast, for a variety of reasons. When this contract runs out, I'll have to look at DirecTV again. My problem is that Comcast is my only high-speed ISP option.

saintnick912 · Mar 6, 2018

cgori said:
Comcast not having FS2 is so annoying on days like this.

My Comcast added FS2 a couple of weeks ago and the login works on foxsportsgo.com FYI.

cgori · Mar 6, 2018

saintnick912 said:
My Comcast added FS2 a couple of weeks ago and the login works on foxsportsgo.com FYI.

Thanks. When I login to foxsportsgo.com via my Comcast login, I don't get offered (or shown) FS2 programming

- I'll hope that my area goes like yours and eventually adds FS2.

SoxFanInCali · Mar 7, 2018

Cool story here. Andy Robertson sent a kid an autographed shirt for donating his own money to a foodbank supported by both Liverpool and Everton supporters. The funny thing is that he sent him an autographed Roberto Firmino shirt instead of his own because "Let's be honest - No one wants the left back's shirt".

koufax32 · Mar 17, 2018

So Salah is good at this game.

So when, not if, but when the whales start asking about his price what will the answer be? If someone offers them €150m do they think about it?

fletcherpost · Mar 17, 2018

koufax32 said:
So Salah is good at this game.

So when, not if, but when the whales start asking about his price what will the answer be? If someone offers them €150m do they think about it?

Or, say if/when Real Madrid offer Bale plus cash. I imagine conversatons have taken place already between Klopp and the board/owners cos the wolves are gonna come for Salah. What do Liverpool need to do to challenge City next year? Can they keep Salah and sufficiently retool for next season? I'm not sure.

Mighty Joe Young · Mar 19, 2018

67YAZ said:
It definitely helps that LFC have earned a reputation as hard nosed negotiators, particularly when it comes to their world class talents - Suarez & Coutinho. Teams eyeballing Salah have to know that it’s going to be a drawn out and expensive affair. That will help LFC get maximum value if Salah does move.

What do they need to win the league? Hey need a true DM to replace Henderson - Fabinho, Jorginho, Weigl, or someone along those lines. Players that will shield the CBs, step up into gaps behind the press, and move the ball intelligently.

They need a new partner for VVD. Lovren and Matip aren’t at his level. de Vrij is interesting because he’s available on a free and he partners with VVD on the Dutch national team.

A new keeper. Karius is building up his confidence for sure, but I don’t know that he is to be trusted yet.

An understudy and back up for Firmino. I don’t think it’s Solanke.

And Christian Pulisic, who has the skill set to fill the Mané/Salah winger role.

Pretty much agree with this ..

Few points :

Klopp seems to really like Ings .. so I think he’s the Firmino backup.

Agree on the new DM.

Ownership has a wet dream over Pulisic - as does Klopp for that matter. But I’m not sure if he’s obtainable. Someone like Draxler (being linked again) seems more likely.

The VVD partner .. I don’t think they will spend big here. Obviously de Vrij is the best solution being free and all.

Karius - the rumour mill has Real Madrid coming for Allison, so the price is going to be prohibitive. Karius has played well since being named the starter. But I agree, I wouldn’t make any judgements until May.

The priorities have to be the DM and new Coutinho replacement.

The rest depends on performances during the run in.

swiftaw · Mar 19, 2018

Obviously Keita is coming into midfield (had a good game against Bayern yesterday) and a few rumors about Ndidi from Leicester.

Mighty Joe Young · Mar 19, 2018

67YAZ said:
I think I have the same wet dream. After so much change and a relatively down season at BVB, Pulisic really should stay put this summer and look to reassert himself next season.

Unless Salah leaves, I agree that Draxler is a target or maybe they revisit Lemar depending in who else goes in for him. I think Klopp will also start to rotate in Woodburn, see if he ready to run with the first team.

The midfield is definitely where the money will be spent IMO.

With Can leaving we need a 1st choice DM and an attacking playmaker mid.

I'm not really sure where Keita fits but he's obviously a starter... Lets say they bring in Jorginho and Lemar .. that's a world class mid field. An inverted triangle with Lemar on the left, Keita on the right and Jorginho at the base.

If that's all they do in the summer I'd be very happy.

I cant see any realistic circumstance where they'd sell Salah this summer. To the best of my knowledge he has no release clause - and he seems completely content where he is. The only one actively pushing for a Real move was the Egyptian WC coach - does he get a finders fee or something?

As for outgoing you have to think Sturridge will be on his way somewhere - they arn't going to get much obviously. I wouldn't be surprised if Lallana is moved on as well.

JayMags71 · Mar 19, 2018

BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Karius - the rumour mill has Real Madrid coming for Allison, so the price is going to be prohibitive. Karius has played well since being named the starter. But I agree, I wouldn’t make any judgements until May.

I haven’t heard of RM coming for Alisson . My understanding is they want either De Gea or Courtois. Someone on either Totally Football , or Football Weekly said that Courtois is agitating behind the scenes for a move there. If that’s true, the game of musical chairs seems to indicate that Alisson is going to be expensive.

Mighty Joe Young · Mar 21, 2018

67YAZ said:
12 months ago, Lallana was an energizer bunny in the midfield, pressing like a madman and driving into the box with direct runs and dribbles. He was even playing a key role with the English national team. But the injuries really derailed him, and Wijnaldum has done well with his opportunity. Klopp has been encouraging when talking about Lallana’s return. I think he sticks around for a while longer because he’ll either be useful or too injured to get transferred.

As for Sturridge, this was the worst case scenario. Everyone involved would have been better off if he was covered in bubble wrap and fastened to the bench this season instead of actually trying to play. I feel bad for the kid.

Sturridge - completely expected he'd break again.

Given the problems he had a Liverpool - despite all the special programs and diets and muscle programs and all around kid glove handling he was still hurt half the time. On another club ? I'm surprised he even got into a game. IIRC didn't Hodsgon break him in his first training session with the national team?

But the club can't be completely selfish with players. Sometimes you have to bow to the player's wishes. He had no role to play and Sturridge was desperate to re-establish his credentials - for both the the England WC team and for his future employers.

[Edit: not to mention getting his not inconsequential salary off the books]

koufax32 · Mar 21, 2018

ESPN’s collection of rumor mill bits says that if there is to be a Salah sale the bidding will need to start at €200m.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/3427666/mohamed-salah-suitors-face-200m-price-tag-and-liverpool-resolve

Seven Costanza · Mar 22, 2018

He's trolling Boring James Milner.... right?

SoxFanInCali · Mar 23, 2018

Liverpool 2017-18: Salah Days are Here

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