The terribly mediocre Lakers

finnVT

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If George doesn't want to sign with the Lakers, then he'll just leave in the offseason anyway, and they'll have lost Ingram for nothing.

Also, as bad as Deng's contract is, they can probably find a way to lessen it's impact. I don't understand the cap nuances enough to evaluate this, but one thought on how they could reduce it to essentially 3m/year long term (spreading it out, but making a path to have room for 2 maxes this summer): http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2743657-to-make-room-for-2-stars-lakers-should-give-luol-deng-an-extension-seriously
 

nighthob

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If George doesn't want to sign with the Lakers, then he'll just leave in the offseason anyway, and they'll have lost Ingram for nothing.
And if they don't have the ability to add another all star then they're essentially locked into hoping that Ball and Ingram turn into top 20 players when current all stars turn their attention to greener pastures. It's a lot easier to get Paul George to lobby other stars to join him when he's already on your team. But, I hate Laker fans, so I hope that Pelinka and Johnson prospect hoard and watch that team struggle to make the playoffs indefinitely.

Also, as bad as Deng's contract is, they can probably find a way to lessen it's impact. I don't understand the cap nuances enough to evaluate this, but one thought on how they could reduce it to essentially 3m/year long term (spreading it out, but making a path to have room for 2 maxes this summer): http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2743657-to-make-room-for-2-stars-lakers-should-give-luol-deng-an-extension-seriously
I'm pretty sure that extensions need to have a minimum of two years guaranteed money in order to be legal. Although anything that leads to DeMarcus Cousins joining the cast of Keeping Up With The Big Ballers is OK by me.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I'm pretty sure that extensions need to have a minimum of two years guaranteed money in order to be legal. Although anything that leads to DeMarcus Cousins joining the cast of Keeping Up With The Big Ballers is OK by me.
In reading CBAFAQs, it appears that extensions can be non-guaranteed. In #58, he writes: "If all remaining years of the contract and the extension are entirely non-guaranteed, then the entire signing bonus is charged to the season in which the extension is signed" (bold added).
 

mauf

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Do the Lakers still want George? No one was a bigger skeptic than me on OKC’s offseason moves, but even I’m shocked that adding George and Anthony barely made them better. I’d be shocked if they included Ingram in a deal for George.
 

chilidawg

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Do the Lakers still want George? No one was a bigger skeptic than me on OKC’s offseason moves, but even I’m shocked that adding George and Anthony barely made them better. I’d be shocked if they included Ingram in a deal for George.
My take would be George made them better and Anthony made them worse, which of course is influenced by my bias that that is what I expected.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Do the Lakers still want George? No one was a bigger skeptic than me on OKC’s offseason moves, but even I’m shocked that adding George and Anthony barely made them better. I’d be shocked if they included Ingram in a deal for George.
They didn't simply add George and Anthony......it cost them an All-Star guard in Oladipo and two rotation bigs in Sabonis and Kanter. One could argue that Oladipo/Sabonis > George/Anthony while not even including Kanter.....which still recognizing George's talent.
 

mauf

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They didn't simply add George and Anthony......it cost them an All-Star guard in Oladipo and two rotation bigs in Sabonis and Kanter. One could argue that Oladipo/Sabonis > George/Anthony while not even including Kanter.....which still recognizing George's talent.
That makes sense — Oladipo for George has been essentially a wash, while Anthony always figured to be a bad fit chemistry-wise (in addition to being criminally overrated).
 

wilked

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There are 11 teams with between 12 and 17 wins (0.279 through 0.404 win %). Mid-season trades can change things, but for now that's the population vying for the ping pong balls

Bulls and Hornets continue to win and push themselves out of the group - hopefully that continues to narrow the list to 9.

Lakers are 'middle of the pack' in those 9. So far so good I think... not a bad place to be halfway through the season
 

nighthob

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They didn't simply add George and Anthony......it cost them an All-Star guard in Oladipo and two rotation bigs in Sabonis and Kanter. One could argue that Oladipo/Sabonis > George/Anthony while not even including Kanter.....which still recognizing George's talent.
Looking back on it, they might have been better off dealing Westbrook and holding on to the poor man's version in Oladipo. They'd've gotten a mint for RWB. It would have meant a rebuilding period, but they could have jumpstarted it had they opened the doors on an auction last June.

Certainly LA, Boston, and Phoenix would have entered the bidding. Possibly Philly, though they don't seem to like trading their young players.
 

Imbricus

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Did anyone see the Lakers box score from last night? The rebounding by the starters was pathetic. True, none of them played more than 26 minutes, but still: 8 total rebounds, with Ennis the point guard leading the way with 3. Say what you will about Lonzo, at least he's a decent rebounder for a guard. (Also, looks like Kuzma left with a finger injury and Ingram with an ankle injury, but neither was serious.)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Did anyone see the Lakers box score from last night? The rebounding by the starters was pathetic. True, none of them played more than 26 minutes, but still: 8 total rebounds, with Ennis the point guard leading the way with 3. Say what you will about Lonzo, at least he's a decent rebounder for a guard. (Also, looks like Kuzma left with a finger injury and Ingram with an ankle injury, but neither was serious.)
I watched a little bit of the game and during that short stretch, Adams had at least 3 put backs, including one off a missed FT and Van Gundy was lamenting how no one in the NBA (except Smart I guess) boxes out.

Also KCP left the game with an Achilles strain as well.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Did anyone see the Lakers box score from last night? The rebounding by the starters was pathetic. True, none of them played more than 26 minutes, but still: 8 total rebounds, with Ennis the point guard leading the way with 3. Say what you will about Lonzo, at least he's a decent rebounder for a guard. (Also, looks like Kuzma left with a finger injury and Ingram with an ankle injury, but neither was serious.)
They've been horrible defensively whenever Ball's been out. Accordingly, he's third in DRPM among point guards. FWIW, he's also sporting a 2.3 DBPM. For some context, the list of guards to put up a DBPM greater than 1.2 before they're legally able to drink is: Chris Paul (1.4), Marcus Smart (1.3), and Rondo (2.0)*.

Still too early to draw a strong conclusion, and his lack of lateral quickness will continue to be exploitable in certain match-ups, but it's some validation for those of us who though Ball's strong team defense at UCLA generally outweighed concerns about his inability to stay in front of guys.



*Apologies to Kedrick Brown, but those minutes ain't gonna cut it.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Still too early to draw a strong conclusion, and his lack of lateral quickness will continue to be exploitable in certain match-ups, but it's some validation for those of us who though Ball's strong team defense at UCLA generally outweighed concerns about his inability to stay in front of guys.
By my eye test, Ball has that ability to see things a instant before it happens. Great help defender and really good in the passing lanes. Will be interesting to see how far he can leverage this.

He's kind of like Larry Bird, if Larry were three inches shorter and had to shoot with his left hand.
 

Sam Ray Not

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By my eye test, Ball has that ability to see things a instant before it happens. Great help defender and really good in the passing lanes. Will be interesting to see how far he can leverage this.

He's kind of like Larry Bird, if Larry were three inches shorter and had to shoot with his left hand.
Only 6-6 Larry would still be a much better shooter lefty. And a much more instinctive and creative scorer. And have twice the competitive fire.

I think you’re right about Ball’s excellent (if not quite Birdlike) vision and anticipation, though. I think that also helps explain the great rebounding rate (7.6 boards per 36).
 
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Jed Zeppelin

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Kings/Grizzlies tonite... love those games between the bottom feeders
Think we probably should root for the better team in this situation. Kings are very bad and primed to tank hard down the stretch, Hill is on the block for one.

I think every other team, including the Hawks, can keep it close with the rest of the bottom feeders.

Either way, pretty great that the Kings are almost certainly going to be terrible through next year.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Think we probably should root for the better team in this situation. Kings are very bad and primed to tank hard down the stretch, Hill is on the block for one.
Yeah, I've watched a lot of shitty basketball, and I think the Kings are the worst team in the league now, before they trade off pieces.
 

Cesar Crespo

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At the beginning of the season, I figured the Hawks, Bulls, Kings and Mavs would be at another level of suck than the rest of the teams. It looks like the Bulls are not in that group, but that the Magic are. The Magic may also be the worst team in the NBA.

That 5th spot is definitely up for grabs though. It'd help immensely if one of the previously 4 mentioned teams starts playing better. The Hawks and Kings have youth on their side so it's possible they win some garbage games in April. You could say the same thing about the Lakers too, though. It happens every year. Last year we saw the Suns, Lakers and Nets go on late season runs.
 

benhogan

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At the beginning of the season, I figured the Hawks, Bulls, Kings and Mavs would be at another level of suck than the rest of the teams. It looks like the Bulls are not in that group, but that the Magic are. The Magic may also be the worst team in the NBA.

That 5th spot is definitely up for grabs though. It'd help immensely if one of the previously 4 mentioned teams starts playing better. The Hawks and Kings have youth on their side so it's possible they win some garbage games in April. You could say the same thing about the Lakers too, though. It happens every year. Last year we saw the Suns, Lakers and Nets go on late season runs.
I'm writing off the Hawks, Kings and Magic (hopefully the Celts win rejuvenates that crew). So I want the Jazz to beat the Hawks and the Hornets to beat the Kings tonight. Just want to make sure Jazz/Hornets stay clear of the Lakers.

The Mavs have the vets and coaching to finish ahead of the Lakers.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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I'm writing off the Hawks, Kings and Magic (hopefully the Celts win rejuvenates that crew). So I want the Jazz to beat the Hawks and the Hornets to beat the Kings tonight. Just want to make sure Jazz/Hornets stay clear of the Lakers.

The Mavs have the vets and coaching to finish ahead of the Lakers.
I agree about the Mavs. I also sort of like the Hawks a little bit.
The Kings and the Magic are really bad, and rooting for them to win is basically just frustrating.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If Memphis trades Tyreke Evans and are incredibly cautious with Mike Conley's return, that may be game over outside of good luck with the lottery balls.
 

chilidawg

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I agree about the Mavs. I also sort of like the Hawks a little bit.
The Kings and the Magic are really bad, and rooting for them to win is basically just frustrating.
Magic have one two of three, beating the Celtics and Timberwolves, and losing by one to the Cavs. On paper it seems they ought to be better. None of this will matter though if the Lakers keep winning.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Magic have one two of three, beating the Celtics and Timberwolves, and losing by one to the Cavs. On paper it seems they ought to be better. None of this will matter though if the Lakers keep winning.
Before those three, they lost 16 of 17. Maybe they're figuring it out, but I'm not too confident. However, your point about the Lakers is the key. They've won 6 of 8
 

mauf

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The Kings awfulness is a bit of a consolation prize. If the Lakers pick doesn't convey we'll be posting in The Terrible Kings thread next season.
It’s a huge consolation prize. If you were making book on who would finish the 2018-19 season with the worst record in the NBA, the Kings would be the early favorite — they have the worst point differential in the league right now by a significant margin, they aren’t a particularly young team, their most touted rookie (De’Aaron Fox) has disappointed, and there’s zero chance they will sign an impact free agent.
 

cheech13

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It’s a huge consolation prize. If you were making book on who would finish the 2018-19 season with the worst record in the NBA, the Kings would be the early favorite — they have the worst point differential in the league right now by a significant margin, they aren’t a particularly young team, their most touted rookie (De’Aaron Fox) has disappointed, and there’s zero chance they will sign an impact free agent.
Most of what you're saying is true except for the bolded portion. They have nine first or second year players on their roster. Randolph and Carter skew their average age upward, but most of the team is under the age of 25. Remove those two from the roster and its the youngest team in the NBA by average age.
 
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mauf

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Most of what you're saying is true except for the bolded portion. They have nine first or second year players on their roster. Randolph and Carter skew their average age upward, but most of the team is under the age of 25.
Among the 7 players averaging 20 minutes a night for the Kings, only Fox is under 24. You’re right about Carter and Z-Bo skewing the average, but it’s not like they’re sitting on a bunch of high-upside youngsters.

And your point about Carter and Z-Bo raises another question about the Kings’ near-term outlook — Carter is roster garbage at this point, but Z-Bo is arguably their best player. Who knows what he’ll look like next season at age 37?
 

cheech13

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Among the 7 players averaging 20 minutes a night for the Kings, only Fox is under 24. You’re right about Carter and Z-Bo skewing the average, but it’s not like they’re sitting on a bunch of high-upside youngsters.

And your point about Carter and Z-Bo raises another question about the Kings’ near-term outlook — Carter is roster garbage at this point, but Z-Bo is arguably their best player. Who knows what he’ll look like next season at age 37?
WCS, Bogdanovic, and Hield are also in the top 7 in minutes and they are all 25 and younger. I guess if you make the arbitrary cut-off "under 24" then the point stands, but it'll still looks like a very young roster to me.

Carter, Randolph and Hill are all getting shopped at the deadline. I'd be surprised if you had more than one of those guys on the team at the start of next season.
 
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the moops

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Carter is a free agent, so yes, he will not likely be on the team next year. Randolph is old and pretty terrible and is signed for 12 mill next year as well. Not a terrible amount of money, but I can't imagine many teams are wanting to take that deal on without a significant asset attached to him.
 

mauf

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I assumed that Z-Bo was signed as a culture guy and wouldn’t be traded until the deadline next year, if at all. But I don’t follow the Kings, so that could be way off.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I assumed that Z-Bo was signed as a culture guy and wouldn’t be traded until the deadline next year, if at all. But I don’t follow the Kings, so that could be way off.

Uhh, wasn't ZBo caught with like 2 pounds of pot this offseason? If they are keeping him as a culture guy, well lol kings.

edit: Not that it matters I guess. He just doesn't strike me as a culture guy and never has.
 

amarshal2

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Sure looks to me like we can write off the pick in 2018 without some lotto luck. This isn’t a bottom 5 team. The Kuzma evaluations in this forum look awfully homerish, too. He’s a good player who probably goes top 5 in a re-draft.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Sure looks to me like we can write off the pick in 2018 without some lotto luck. This isn’t a bottom 5 team. The Kuzma evaluations in this forum look awfully homerish, too. He’s a good player who probably goes top 5 in a re-draft.
Not really. He can score and can't play a lick of D. He's a 3 year college kid. He'd go number 5 in the draft the same way Malcolm Brogdon would.
 

bowiac

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Kuzma would not be in my top 5, or top 10 in a redraft. Maybe 15th?
 

DannyDarwinism

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His defense at an important defensive position is very bad, which limits his value substantially, but offensively I don't think anyone could've asked for more.

2017 draftees I'd take ahead of him:

Tatum
Mitchell
Ball
Anunoby
Markkanen
John Collins
Bell

Guys I'd guess Bowiac would take over him <checks fun new PIPM data>

Kennard
Adebayo
Hart (?)
Dillon Brooks (?)

There are age-related cases for Ntilikina, Jarrett Allen, Zach Collins and Dennis Smith. I'll abstain on Fultz and Jonathan Isaac due to lack of information.
 

nighthob

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Bowiac's point, I'm guessing, is that you're not drafting for present production but future performance. This isn't the NFL draft. In basketball it's a common occurrence for three and four year college players to post better production numbers year one than 19 year olds. The question is what is that 19 year old going to be producing in years 3-7.