That was then: Celebrating what was

uk_sox_fan

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Nov 11, 2006
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Having spent too much time of the early part of my marriage on my in-laws' couch in Buffalo in the early 90's, I'd got to say Tasker was the greatest ST player I've ever seen.
 

sheamonu

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Nov 11, 2004
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Tasker was great but one of the functions of advanced analytics is to show that the Slaters of the world are at least as valuable. One example - let's assume that on a kickoff the league average starting point is the offensive team's 25 yard line and teams starting there score 25% of the time (hypothetical numbers). When you kick off to Tasker he rips off a return that puts his team at the 40. From that point the offense will score 40% of the time. He just added 15% of value to his team on that possession. Slater, on the other hand, on that same type play would knife down field, beat a double team and force the returner out of bounds on the 10. From that point the offense scores only 10% of the time. He has also provided 15% of value to his team on that possession - but Tasker gets credit for the yardage, the "touch" and having "actually contributed" while Slater gets an "attaboy". The fact that Slater excels at what is typically seen as an unglamorous role actually makes him grow in my esteem. ( And I'm a big Steve Tasker fan by the way).
 

mwonow

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Sep 4, 2005
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He definitely quit on a route against the Jets if that’s what you’re referring to
Yep, but I already feel bad about making the point in this thread. So...I'm just putting up a link to this press conference, which has Playoff BB on display. Here's an example:

Q: What are some of the biggest challenges of protecting against games or stunts from an opposing defensive line?

BB: Good technique.
 

Super Nomario

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Nov 5, 2000
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Tasker was great but one of the functions of advanced analytics is to show that the Slaters of the world are at least as valuable. One example - let's assume that on a kickoff the league average starting point is the offensive team's 25 yard line and teams starting there score 25% of the time (hypothetical numbers). When you kick off to Tasker he rips off a return that puts his team at the 40. From that point the offense will score 40% of the time. He just added 15% of value to his team on that possession. Slater, on the other hand, on that same type play would knife down field, beat a double team and force the returner out of bounds on the 10. From that point the offense scores only 10% of the time. He has also provided 15% of value to his team on that possession - but Tasker gets credit for the yardage, the "touch" and having "actually contributed" while Slater gets an "attaboy". The fact that Slater excels at what is typically seen as an unglamorous role actually makes him grow in my esteem. ( And I'm a big Steve Tasker fan by the way).
This is a weird example because Tasker was also primarily a gunner. He wasn't like a Dante Hall or Devin Hester.
 

sheamonu

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I know but the prior example was focussing on Tasker having "actually contributed" as a returner. Probably should've quoted that to make it clearer where I was coming from but I didn't really want to seem like I was trolling whoever wrote that - I was making a more general point that value doesn't necessarily equate with touches...
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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I’m assuming you’re referring to my point and I never implied value necessarily equates to touches. I’m saying that all things being equal (which id argue they aren’t even to begin with but it’s a difficult thing to quantify for a ST player), added value of offensive contribution is certainly a tie breaker. He also did play WR to some extent. In summation, Tasker > Slater and I think almost certainly would/will be in the eyes of a HoF voter. The difference in Super Bowl rings isn’t going to tip the scales, imo. Tasker revolutionized the position. I’m on mobile but Tasker had more touches, more TDs, more turnovers forced and recovered, more tackles, etc. I don’t see it as much of a contest to be honest. Apologies if my initial point wasn’t clear.
 
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Ralphwiggum

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Jun 27, 2012
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I think the obstacle that guys like Slater and Tasker have to get past is that they were specialists who only had a handful of times per game when they can contribute. Unless the HOF increases the number of guys who get in on an annual basis, or unless they create a sub-category for specialists like Kickers and ST guys who would be judged against similar players as opposed to being judged against the backlog of great players who are not in, it is hard for me to support a guy like Slater getting elected. Upthread we were talking about Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison, two great players who may never get in. I can’t support Slater getting in ahead of either of those two guys.
 

ifmanis5

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Sep 29, 2007
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Rotten Apple
I love facts like these and I'll never get sick of them because the bruises from the bad times are still buried down deep...

The Patriots have won more than half of their games for the 17th straight year in 2017.

The Patriots have won nine or more games in 21 of the 24 seasons Robert Kraft has owned the team.


And some love for the washed up guy...

Tom Brady is the all-time postseason leader in:
TD Passes (63)
Passing Yards (9,094)
Completions (831)
Highest Completion Percentage In A Single Playoff Game (92.9)
300 Yard Games (12)
QB Super Bowl Wins (5)
Super Bowl MVP Awards (4)
Wins By QB (25)
Starts (34)
 

johnmd20

mad dog
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Dec 30, 2003
61,996
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I love facts like these and I'll never get sick of them because the bruises from the bad times are still buried down deep...

The Patriots have won more than half of their games for the 17th straight year in 2017.

The Patriots have won nine or more games in 21 of the 24 seasons Robert Kraft has owned the team.
And only one of those 17 seasons did they win 9 games. Every other one was 10 or more wins, and only two of the 17 were 10. So 14 out of 17 years, they won 11 or more. Utterly ridiculous.

edit - 12 of the 17 yielded 12 or more wins. Beyond ridiculous.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
58,909
San Andreas Fault
I love facts like these and I'll never get sick of them because the bruises from the bad times are still buried down deep...

The Patriots have won more than half of their games for the 17th straight year in 2017.

The Patriots have won nine or more games in 21 of the 24 seasons Robert Kraft has owned the team.


And some love for the washed up guy...

Tom Brady is the all-time postseason leader in:
TD Passes (63)
Passing Yards (9,094)
Completions (831)
Highest Completion Percentage In A Single Playoff Game (92.9)
300 Yard Games (12)
QB Super Bowl Wins (5)
Super Bowl MVP Awards (4)
Wins By QB (25)
Starts (34)
Hopefully Tom can put Charles Haley in the rear view mirror this year while getting rid of the disclaimer on Super Bowl wins. Got a bunch of work to do first though.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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The following stats are unbelievable. Almost literally.

Brady won tonight despite 50 passing attempts. Only four QBs have won a playoff game since the 1970 merger despite 50 plus passing attempts. Fouts did it once in 1982. Kosar did it in 1987. And Eli did it in 2012.

Brady has now done it 6 times.

Since the merger, teams are 9 and 35 in games in which their QB throws 50 or more passes, for a winning percentage of 20.4 percent. But if you take out Brady, everyone else is 3 and 33, for a winning percentage of 8.3 percent. Brady, by comparison, is 6-2, for a winning percentage of 75 percent.

This says some stuff about Brady -- several of these games were comebacks where they were in passing mode. Snow bowl, Super Bowl 49 and 51. The Ravens game where they came back down 14 twice (and actually Edelman had a pass attempt there, as he did in Super Bowl 51). So, some of this is just a testament to the fact the Patriots have won several playoff games where teams usually lose. But there is also an aspect of Belichick just not giving a crap. He doesn't care what convention says. Tonight, he looked at an impressive defensive line. And he decided the way to beat them was short throws. Lots of them. Good enough for 35 points and 31 first downs. Just crazy stuff.
 

Reverend

for king and country
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Jan 20, 2007
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The following stats are unbelievable. Almost literally.

Brady won tonight despite 50 passing attempts. Only four QBs have won a playoff game since the 1970 merger despite 50 plus passing attempts. Fouts did it once in 1982. Kosar did it in 1987. And Eli did it in 2012.

Brady has now done it 6 times.

Since the merger, teams are 9 and 35 in games in which their QB throws 50 or more passes, for a winning percentage of 20.4 percent. But if you take out Brady, everyone else is 3 and 33, for a winning percentage of 8.3 percent. Brady, by comparison, is 6-2, for a winning percentage of 75 percent.

This says some stuff about Brady -- several of these games were comebacks where they were in passing mode. Snow bowl, Super Bowl 49 and 51. The Ravens game where they came back down 14 twice (and actually Edelman had a pass attempt there, as he did in Super Bowl 51). So, some of this is just a testament to the fact the Patriots have won several playoff games where teams usually lose. But there is also an aspect of Belichick just not giving a crap. He doesn't care what convention says. Tonight, he looked at an impressive defensive line. And he decided the way to beat them was short throws. Lots of them. Good enough for 35 points and 31 first downs. Just crazy stuff.
64463A9A-8495-422C-99A4-1DD23A631084.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/5sipwz/a_visualization_of_qbs_with_50_pass_attempts/
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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AZ
Following up on my previous post. Brady is the only QB who has thrown 50 or more passes in a regulation playoff game since the merger and won. He has done it four times. As noted above, thee others have done it once each -- all in overtime games.

Tonight was the first time since the merger that a team that has thrown more than 50 times has won a regulation game by more than four points and the first time a team that has thrown more than 50 passes has won any game OT or regulation) by more than six points.
 

Reverend

for king and country
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Following up on my previous post. Brady is the only QB who has thrown 50 or more passes in a regulation playoff game since the merger and won. He has done it four times. As noted above, thee others have done it once each -- all in overtime games.

Tonight was the first time since the merger that a team that has thrown more than 50 times has won a regulation game by more than four points and the first time a team that has thrown more than 50 passes has won any game OT or regulation) by more than six points.
Basically, if this wasn’t an analysis where we have the entire data set and know it is complete and accurate, i.e. the entire play by play records, but were using instruments to record a phenomenon, an insufficiently sensitive instrument or an insufficiently diligent researcher might accidentally ignore Brady as not part of the set on account of being an altogether different phenomenon.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
Basically, if this wasn’t an analysis where we have the entire data set and know it is complete and accurate, i.e. the entire play by play records, but were using instruments to record a phenomenon, an insufficiently sensitive instrument or an insufficiently diligent researcher might accidentally ignore Brady as not part of the set on account of being an altogether different phenomenon.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It's a head scratcher. Until you just realize ... it's Brady.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,567
We have a LB coach with no Coordinatorships (albeit experience in most "positional positions"), seemingly up for a Head Coach position, namely/mainly because of his 14 years of apprenticeships under BB.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
21,627
My favorite: If you divided Brady’s career in half—2001 to 2009 and 2010 to today—and assigned each to two different people, both would be locks to make the Hall of Fame.
That's an interesting exercise. Who else would make that list? Elway is the only name that leaps out at me.
 

dynomite

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That's an interesting exercise. Who else would make that list? Elway is the only name that leaps out at me.
Peyton.

From 1998-2006: 92-52, 37,586 yards, 275 TDs, 139 INTs, 1 Super Bowl (ugh).

From 2007-2015: 94-27, 34,254 yards, 264 TDs, 112 INTs, 1 Super Bowl (ugh).

Compare that to Troy Aikman: 94-74, 32,942 yards, 165 TDs, 141 INTs, 3 Super Bowls.
 

BuellMiller

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Mar 25, 2015
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I think Walter Payton would likely as well (assuming you're using Terrell Davis, Larry Czonka, and a few others from the 60's/70's as comps). Over 8000 yards rushing in his first 6 years and last 7 years, along with good receiving numbers for a RB. And his career was a little bit better balanced than Emmitt Smith's (whose was much more frontloaded in terms of yards, TDs, and honors). Payton had 5 Pro Bowl nods and 3 1st Team All Pro in his first 6 years, and 4 and 2 his last 7.
Jerry Rice, probably too.
Of course, there's a good reason these guys are all time greats.
 

Brand Name

make hers mark
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Oct 6, 2010
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Moving the Line
Awesome read. Loved the simple, yet powerful quote of "Be rigid in fundamentals and techniques, but flexible in scheme."

To that end, it reminded me of maintenance of a garden. You have to have the same roots to allow the team, a given plant or player to flourish, but how the plant grows is more a subjective matter: How much sunlight, water, weeds in the area, parasites, competing plants, just to name a few factors.

It's something additional to keep true to in life, as well. Yes, TPS reports will need to be filed under fundamentals of the company, but how we get them done, as workers, as bosses, in our execution greatly is going to vary, be it in learning methodology, time in which to do so, and ultimately the work's output and end product, no matter the location, of a field or meeting.
 

Hoya81

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Feb 3, 2010
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You can almost do it with Unitas:
1956-1964
68-40 W/L 1647/3031 54% 24,315 yards 187 TD 137 INT
8 Pro Bowl, 3 1st All Pro, 2 NFL titles, 1 runner up

1965-1973
50-23-4 W/L 1183/2155 55% 15924 103 TD 116 INT
2 pro bowl, 2 all pro, 1 SB (I didn't include 68 or 71 post season finishes because Morrall was the starter)

Late career Unitas was still an effective starter for a pre-merger QB.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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Apr 7, 2006
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So...I've been thinking about it and I thiink we just added another team to the "most crushing loss in Franchise history" list. They lost both their other AFCC game appearances by a couple TDs, this has to be their worst, right?