It popped in my twitter feed so I can't take credit for finding it. But I really liked seeing that type of enthusiasm after the play. If that isn't an example of "Do Your Job", nothing is.
The Game Ball Thread: Week 15 at Pittsburgh
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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Yeah, it was a head turn. It's a great example to throw back at the fans who always scream "TURN AROUND" at DBs who are in trail technique. When you turn around, you get beat.
Gilmore turned his head and looked for the ball and at that moment, the receiver just found another gear. It was maddening, but at least he got his head around.
Louis Riddick slammed the Steelers twice on the midnight SVP. Said there was clearly a coordination problem between Ben and the sideline on the spike play, and that's on leadership. Made the same point a minute later when SVP asked why they went to single coverage on Gronk.
I forget where I saw it, but someone had a gif of the poor DB they put on Gronk in that final drive at one point motioning to the sideline in a "am I going to get help on him?" after the 3rd time he got beat in man coverage.
I just wrote this in the game thread but the Steelers should have had a play ready to go in the event the previous play was stopped in bounds with the clock running. They were not prepared for that scenario, and they botched it. It's not exactly surprising. But the fake spike was stupid and reflected a lack of being situationally aware and ready.
Harmon plays deep safety and is basically there to prevent home runs. When the game is still in tilt, QBs tend not to force balls into double coverage, but when they’re desperate at the end, they’re throwing in his direction. He probably has about as easy a role as any defensive back in the league, but he’s still really good at it.
Gilmore lost his footing on the play as he turned his head, which isn’t surprising given the conditions. It wouldn’t have mattered anyway, Ben threw a ball only his receiver could catch.
I thought he slipped -- you see his wheels spinning for just a second there.
EDIT: or what EH said just above...
Peter King mentioned that this morning as well. If the players know they need to switch, but the sideline doesn't ... that's truly an indictment
Yeah, Gilmore looked back too soon and lost Bryant.
I suspect that if we look at the all-22, we will find that the Patriots did things, knowing it was man-to-man, to make it very difficult to double Gronk. The Steelers made a huge adjustment shifting from their typical zone to a primarily man-to-man D. But teams that run man-to-man as a foundation (like Rex Ryan's teams, for instance) have a whole series of different double-team calls they can make based on how the offense aligns. Pittsburgh probably doesn't have all those variations because man isn't their bread-and-butter.
Ryan Clark on with SAS. First off, credit where it's due, he said the call was correct.
Now, he also said that if they play again he's sure that Tomlin will come up with a solution on Gronk and they'll be able to contain him and since they did pretty well on the other WRs and backs, that's good news for Steelers.
Now, I'm not on-air talent at ESPN, but one would assume the follow up to that would be something like "But wouldn't that mean that whatever you were doing to slow down the others would be compromised by sliding more help to Gronk?" But, you know, it wasn't. SAS simply said "Alright, alright"
Now, he also said that if they play again he's sure that Tomlin will come up with a solution on Gronk and they'll be able to contain him and since they did pretty well on the other WRs and backs, that's good news for Steelers.
Now, I'm not on-air talent at ESPN, but one would assume the follow up to that would be something like "But wouldn't that mean that whatever you were doing to slow down the others would be compromised by sliding more help to Gronk?" But, you know, it wasn't. SAS simply said "Alright, alright"
I don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned, but mini game ball to Trey Flowers, who was the only DL not fooled on the fake spike and actually hit Big Ben’s arm and caused the ball to veer off course on the INT.
You can see it at the 32 second mark:
You can see it at the 32 second mark:
Yeah, Tomlin has given fans lots of confidence that he can devise a way to stop one of the most difficult players to defend against.
Seriously.
Yesterday: 9 catches on 13 targets, 168 yards, plus the 2 pt play
2016: 4 catches on 4 targets, 93 yards, TD
2015: 5 catches on 8 targets, 94 yards, 3 TD
2013: 9 catches on 10 targets, 143 yards, TD
2011: 7 catches on 9 targets, 94 yards
2010: 5 catches on 5 targets, 72 yards, 3 TD
Like... they haven't come close, ever, to even slowing him down.
It was a garbage snap that Allen tried to fix but probably couldn't completely square away because his hands were blocks of ice. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cardona cut this offseason, he has not been great.
This?
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-belichick-alex-guerrero-feud-2017-12
J Kraft commented doesn't seem to think it is an issue?
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/the_blitz/2017/12/jonathan_kraft_not_aware_of_friction_between_team_and_alex
+1 on this. Contrast this with the Butler SB 49 play, or even the end-of-half sequence against the Saints this year. The Pats have unusually high situational awareness.
Tangentially, if you look at some of the hallmark franchise wins - the tuck game, SB 51, yesterday - the lack of resiliency among Pats' opponents stands out. Oakland, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh each got nut punched. That said, they still had a chance to win, even after the big play/momentum shift went the Pats' way. In the tuck rule game, the Raiders failed to stop NE from moving from the 42 down to FG range, then failed to stop NE from marching 60 yards in OT. The OT drive included a 4th and 4 conversion to Patten. Atlanta watched us go another 41 yards after the Edelman catch, then got the ball back after we tied it and couldn't move it more than 15 yards, with the NFL MVP and an all-world WR. Then they, too, could not stop NE in OT. Finally, Pittsburgh still had second and goal yesterday after the James catch was overturned. Two shots to win, or an easy FG to tie on 4th. To complain about "bad" calls (really correct enforcement of controversial rules) in the case of Oakland and Pittsburgh, or bad luck in the case of Atlanta, elides the lack of resiliency each team showed in the face of adversity.
Can they do whatever they did to Solder to Joe Thuney as well. He has been a problem of late.
He hasn’t been on the injury list so I don’t have a reason to suspect that his issues are due to injury. The pressure up the middle is a killer. Granted his last two games were against two pretty darn good DTs in Suh and Heyward but he needs to be better with a Dline like Jacksonville’s looming out there. Makes me remember that AFC champ game in Denver where one of the Denver DTs was a one man game wrecker from start to finish.
Yes, that's my assumption as welll---a cost of breaking out the 'man to man' uniquely for the Pats (as Steelers pretty much did) is you have a much less robust man-to-man scheme overall, with less knowledge and switchability. One imagines that the Pats ability to build in tricks between now and a second meeting is a lot greater than Pittsburgh's ability to make their man to man more robust, unless Pitt switches to playing mostly man on the fly (which I doubt will happen).
On the two point play the Pats split Gronk out wide, so the impact of shading a safety over early to enable a double was that a different Pat likely would have filled that space (perhaps from backfield?)
Felger and Mazz have been beating this drum for a while fueled by one of the guys on the show (Murray maybe) who claims he has a source with the team who says it is an issue. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more made of it, not because it is an actual thing, but because it is something the media can run with.
I will say that it is believable to me that BB doesn't want Guerrero traveling with the team or on the sidelines during games. Whether or not that's a problem for Brady I don't know.
RalphWiggum covered it, but it appears you haven't been listening to sports talk radio, or reading Shank's columns recently. Murray is indeed the one that seems to think it's a huge issue already. He was reinterpreting some Tom Brady instragram posts to mean that TB12 is pissed at Belichick and the Patriots.
That there's some issues between Guerrero and the Pats training staff would be unsurprising. Some of Guerrero's methods like concussion water are clearly snake oil, and team training staffs do not want anyone second guessing their decisions under any circumstances. Guerrero really doesn't belong on the sidelines during road games (or even home games for that matter), as he's not a team employee.
I mentioned it earlier as well. The thing is there is nothing else for the OC and Ben to do while the refs reviewed the catch. All they should be doing during that time is discussing what they want to do if it is overturned. Going through all the scenarios.
Even if you are confident the TD will stand, what else do you have to do?
I would love to see a video of their sideline during the review delay because it certainly doesn't seem like they were prepared for the last two plays.
If you are still reading Shank...
1) Why?
2) May I humbly request that you do not infect this board with his blathering idiocies, ever?
On Brady's longest completion to Gronk on the game-winning drive Pittsburgh was playing zone defense and not man-to-man. Pick your poison.
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It was a zone blitz, too, with the corner that was lined up on Gronk blitzing.
I just watched this play again. The Pats motioned Amendola right (where Gronk was) to left, creating a trips / bunch on the left side, but the Steelers still only had three guys over there. It looks like Gronk was doubled; the safety in the middle of the field pre-snap cheats to Gronk's side just before the snap and then comes crashing down to jump the slant. So Davis (on Gronk) has help inside ... but he still bites on the fake slant and gets roasted on the fade.
The Steelers probably had the right D on the blackboard - safety has in-breaking routes, Davis has to defend out-breaking ones - but teaching the blackboard scheme isn't the same is ingraining the proper leverage and responsibilities so they're executed correctly even when the offense is trying to fool you.
Looking at the 2pt conversion replay- was that going to be a WR screen to 'Dola (ala SB LI)? It looks like there was blocking out in front, but TB 12 went to the 1v1
(apparently already covered in Nation's Tears).
(apparently already covered in Nation's Tears).
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Michael GiardiVerified account @MikeGiardi 59m59 minutes ago
Asked Slater if Belichick has a rule about players extending the football near the goaline (a la Jesse James). "If it's 4th down or two-pointer, you do what you have to do...but ball security is always the priority."
Asked Slater if Belichick has a rule about players extending the football near the goaline (a la Jesse James). "If it's 4th down or two-pointer, you do what you have to do...but ball security is always the priority."
On The Ringer's NFL podcast today, Lombardi said the same thing. The players are coached to not extend the ball at the goal line. Every little bit counts and the Pats do every little bit so much better than every other team.
A lot of children call their parents by their first names. It's not a rich person thing, I don't believe, just a 21st century thing.
I always kind of assumed he did so as a professional thing. RKK is his boss so he calls him Robert "at work."
Edit: and it probably helps keep nepotism talk to a minimum if he doesn't always call him dad
I may be crazy but I feel like the fake spike play had a chance to work if Rogers cut to the outside instead of an inside slant. Cutting inside into the teeth of the defense with multiple guys hanging around was just so incredibly stupid.
Everyone keeps saying this but isn't it possible that they did actually have 2 plays ready? Could they have told the whole team that if the 2nd down play didn't work and they didn't get a TD or OOB that they were going to spike it? Then when they saw how much time was on the clock after the first play, decided to call into Ben and say "don't spike it, run this other play!"? I mean, I'm not sure that's better, or that they shouldn't have had plays for 20 seconds left and 5 seconds left or something that could have been called in as soon as the second down play completed, but to me it at least looks like they maybe could have sent 2 plays in: 2nd down play then spike. It may also explain Ben's comments a bit. He thought he knew the plan, and they changed the plan without him having time to implement it.
And ironically, if the exact play happened and he lost control going to the ground, but hadn't lunged into the endzone, Pit would have had to hurry up and run a play since the clock would have been running and they were out of time, leaving the refs no time to call in the review. Lunging into the endzone cost them doubly.
Story checks out. Would have been super tempting for White to try to reach across the goal line after a long, exhausting uphill climb to get back in the game.
This is the reason. A good friend of my family owns a very successful business that all of the kids are involved in. They all call their dad by his first name at work and in professional settings.
I'm confused by what you are trying to show with this video. First, White does in fact reach across the goal line. Second, White is a runner here, not a receiver, so simply breaking the plane of the goal line is an immediate touchdown and ball control at the point of contact with the ground is irrelevant. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't believe this video is relevant to the training being discusssd by Slater in that quote.
I disagree with all of these "refs let them play..and didn't throw penalties on either team" posts. Any time this happens, invariably, the Patriots are going to get screwed. The calls do not "even out," because the Patriots are coached not to commit penalties. Of course, the Pats commit penalties, but they do not recognize when officials aren't calling them, and start to change their play as a result, because when that official decides to actually throw a flag, they know the consequences they'll face if they get hit with an untimely penalty.
Gronk continues to get mauled down the field, and there no calls. Yet, if he even touches a defender, he is the one getting hit with the flag. These calls will never "even out." Never. Yesterday, in the 2nd half, Pitt for some reason, started letting Gronk get off the LOS and once they did that, he was by them before they could grab him, and we saw the results. Cooks got absolutely manhandled throughout the Miami game by Xavien Howard, and it totally eliminated him.
I want the refs calling Patriots games based on the rules, because I'm 100% convinced that an evenly officiated game will usually benefit the Pats to the tune of a 3:1 ratio of penalties against the other team versus penalties against the Pats. For every taunting call they miss against the Pats (oh noes, it would have made the kickoff 15 yards further back), there are 10 calls against Gronk and Cooks that aren't made that would be automatic first downs and/or potentially huge gains. Throw the flag, and make the calls. A penalty is a penalty.
Gronk continues to get mauled down the field, and there no calls. Yet, if he even touches a defender, he is the one getting hit with the flag. These calls will never "even out." Never. Yesterday, in the 2nd half, Pitt for some reason, started letting Gronk get off the LOS and once they did that, he was by them before they could grab him, and we saw the results. Cooks got absolutely manhandled throughout the Miami game by Xavien Howard, and it totally eliminated him.
I want the refs calling Patriots games based on the rules, because I'm 100% convinced that an evenly officiated game will usually benefit the Pats to the tune of a 3:1 ratio of penalties against the other team versus penalties against the Pats. For every taunting call they miss against the Pats (oh noes, it would have made the kickoff 15 yards further back), there are 10 calls against Gronk and Cooks that aren't made that would be automatic first downs and/or potentially huge gains. Throw the flag, and make the calls. A penalty is a penalty.
This is an absurdly ridiculous post. There is no evidence, none, that the Pats are "coached not to commit penalties". They are decided middle of the pack most years in penalties against, and in 2014 (when they, you know, won the Super Bowl) they were the 2nd most penalized team in the league (behind Seattle, also in the Super Bowl). They are coached to avoid mistakes for sure, but I don't believe they are coached not to commit penalties. Sometimes penalties are not mistakes.
I agree Gronk is treated unfairly, and I'm not 100% sure why beyond the fact that he's a physical freak. But that's an outlier and leaving that aside I don't see any evidence that the Pats are treated unfairly by the refs. Certainly there's no reason to believe the other team would have 3x more penalties if the refs just called it by the rules.
Didn't seem to me like Slater was talking specifically about catches, just that ball security around the goal line is always paramount (cf. Carr, Derek). And it sure seems to me that White was trying his damnedest to keep the ball pinned against his chest as he was running -- the reason his right arm extends is because #32 from Atlanta is pulling it.
Isn't one of BB's mantras "Do business as business is being done". Just as it's suboptimal to average too high a FG% in basketball, having no non-procedural penalties means you're not taking enough risks. (I have no idea how they coach players as to the right level of risk, though)
Where do the Pats stand in terms of penalties (e.g., false starts, 12-men-on-the-field, delay of game, taunting--I'm sure there are others) where there is no upside to skirting the line?
Well the tweet that followed seems to indicate that the rule of not reaching out applies to during a catch...with good reason as we know based on the lengthy rules discussion here in this thread.
I see what you're saying about Slater's quote not being very clear. I'd assume that "ball control" is going to have different meaning in the run vs. pass scenario though. The exact same reaching move should be judged very differently when done during a run vs. a pass because the risk of hitting the ground and nullifying the play is non-existent in the case of a run.
Now you have me trying to think of I've ever seen Patriots players reach toward the goal line when acting as a runner. I'm pretty sure Edelman and Dola have reached for the pylon.
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