Given IT's hip and that Zizic hasn't played much yet ... I think calling it a huge upgrade for Cleveland is also a stretch
Kyrie Irving traded to Celtics for IT, Crowder, Zizic, BKN 1st, 2020 2nd
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This is where I'm at (and what Clears said on other page). Ainge went out and added Hayward and Kyrie this summer, essentially swapped the Nets pick for the Lakers/Kings one and either avoids losing Isaiah for nothing or clears enough space to extend Smart. Ainge had about as much interest in paying Isaiah as he did paying Rondo a few years ago......and now Isaiah is happy too because he'll now get that Brinks Truck backed up for him.
The team is now totally restructured, I'll say are now the favorites in the East (and THE dominant EC team should LeBron leave next summer), and ready to make Championship runs. Ainge needed to play a hand with his assets and he's done just that.......while still maintaining a decent chance at another impact rookie next year.
It is silly to say Ainge was bidding against himself as if there was no interest in Kyrie around the league? You have to give up extra assets to keep him in the East as well. Time to get #18 now!
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Hard to be excited about this deal in isolation. Yes, the Celtics got the single best player in the deal, but is the difference in wins between IT and Kyrie really worth Crowder's contract, Zizic, AND what is likely to be a top 5 pick? I wouldn't think so.
I'm stunned, thought this was all a smoke screen.
Have to think IT's hip is sketchy, his defense would be worse with less lateral speed, and his offense would suffer without being able to separate.
If IT is healthy and he wants nothing less than a 4-5yr MAX/ "Brink Truck" deal next year and Ainge wasn't having that then a deal was necessary this off-season.
Well here's hoping the Nets go 37-45, finish as the 8th seed, and get swept by the #1 seed Celtics.
Have to think IT's hip is sketchy, his defense would be worse with less lateral speed, and his offense would suffer without being able to separate.
If IT is healthy and he wants nothing less than a 4-5yr MAX/ "Brink Truck" deal next year and Ainge wasn't having that then a deal was necessary this off-season.
Well here's hoping the Nets go 37-45, finish as the 8th seed, and get swept by the #1 seed Celtics.
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It's a completely new team so any chemistry from last years team is already gone anyway.
His ceiling is probably a Gortat type. Good? Yes, but he's slow of foot and a decent shot he's not a viable NBA-level defender for a few years. I think this is a decent use of the 23rd pick who hasn't stepped on an NBA floor yet.
Do we change the Nets thread title? It feels like bad juju to keep it as is
Any chance they can add a veteran or two for the bench? The bench is incredibly young as it currently sits. I'm not sure who is out there.
I despise this deal. I have loved every other move Ainge has made until now. This is like the time he wanted to trade 4 first round picks for Winslow, only worse. Does he have some crazy fetish for Duke players or something?
Irving's ego was so big he couldn't stay with Lebron after going to the Finals, he had to be the big shot on his team. So I'm sure he'll be happy to distribute the ball to Hayward and Horford and a bunch of rookies.
This ballhog egomanic flat-earther is the antithesis of Stevens Ball, and I highly doubt he is coming here to change his ways. He'll play the way he wants and tell Stevens to go screw.
If Isiah and Lebron are healthy they will knock the Celtics out of the playoffs next year, and then get to use the Nets pick that we've stashed for so long. Sickening.
Irving's ego was so big he couldn't stay with Lebron after going to the Finals, he had to be the big shot on his team. So I'm sure he'll be happy to distribute the ball to Hayward and Horford and a bunch of rookies.
This ballhog egomanic flat-earther is the antithesis of Stevens Ball, and I highly doubt he is coming here to change his ways. He'll play the way he wants and tell Stevens to go screw.
If Isiah and Lebron are healthy they will knock the Celtics out of the playoffs next year, and then get to use the Nets pick that we've stashed for so long. Sickening.
also I imagine the Cavs were very reluctant to give Irving to their most competitive East rival. I'm sure they started out asking for multiple picks.
to say Ainge bid against himself is ridiculous. cashing in the big pick on Irving is the debate question.
to say Ainge bid against himself is ridiculous. cashing in the big pick on Irving is the debate question.
Eh, it's not that simple, because other pieces fit in where Crowder, Zizic and another rookie next year would have been. The great unknown is whether the BKLYN pick is higher than the Laker one. Maybe it's the difference between 1 and 5; maybe it's the difference between 5 and 6.
Is Irving really that much of a ballhog? I don't remember him being anything like a Melo level ballhog. He only had 0.3 less assists per 36 than IT last season.
If anything, this deal moved out a known malcontent (Crowder) and a guy with the potential to become a malcontent within a year (IT), for a guy who gets exactly what he wanted: to be the lead playmaker and the biggest star of a major franchise. I'm not sure where the chemistry issue is going to come from.
Now that I'm over my initial revulsion, I will say that Playoff Kyrie is pretty goddamn sick. Best handle and best finisher in the league.
I like IT, Crowder, Zizic for Kyrie. The Nets pick feels like too much, but I prefer it to dealing a Tatum in hand.
If the Brooklyn pick is 5 and the Lakers pick is 6 then the Cs get nothing next year
I agree I really don't think there's going to be any chemistry issue, and maybe this is beating a dead horse at this point, but to call Crowder a "known malcontent" because of a single instance of him getting mad that HIS OWN FANS were cheering for the other team is ridiculous. And I don't see how IT would have become a malcontent either - either the C's max him out and he's happy, or they don't and he goes somewhere else.
While it's extraordinarily early, the fact this upcoming draft class goes arguably five deep with its quality (currently some order of Porter, Bagley, Bamba, Ayton, Doncic) really makes me feel at ease with this deal. Actual long term assets currently actually on the roster, such as Brown and Tatum, weren't traded. Brooklyn's pick hurts but is no sure thing by its number overall. Best case for Cleveland, because it bears repeating, is a 25% chance at #1 overall.
If the Lakers pick conveys this year, as should be expected, that's still an outstanding asset to have. Haven't seen anybody talk about this year, but it's still absolutely LA finishes worse than Brooklyn and/or results in a higher selection, in which case people will have been magically in favor of this deal the entire time. Not to mention, there are still additional conveyed picks from teams like Memphis, although those aren't likely to be as high, to be fair. All in all, in light of the Fultz trade, this genuinely makes sense if you ask me, and from Ainge's perspective. How so? The existing asset from the Lakers/Kings/Sixers is likely deemed somewhat comparable in Ainge's eyes, with the scales swinging of player quality between Irving and Thomas, not to mention the additional year of team control, the ages, to say nothing of Thomas' hip.
It took a bit of initial shock on my end to be reasonable about this. Unfortunate to see that Crowder's slashing won't benefit from Hayward, and was decently high on Zizic too. As much as I loved IT4's driving to the bucket, but he isn't a star, which you need to win in the NBA. No, Irving isn't sniffing top 10, can't believe that's been espoused in this thread, but he probably is quite a bit closer to a bonafide star, depending on who you ask. This trade also avoids an awful max down the line, given his style doesn't age well, and at best a catch-and-shooter. So, so glad to see this team sell high on Thomas. Add this to the spacing and shooting ability this team will be afforded with Bradball, not to mention the defensive upgrade it gives to the first unit on the whole. It may not be much of one in the regular season, but when you're replacing IT4, it's material enough to mention.
See if you can get Mason Plumlee on a vet min deal, although Stevens probably wants to start a distributor, with the rest of the players on the floor as wings. Whee, buckle up, think this is going to be an absolutely fun ride this season.
If the Lakers pick conveys this year, as should be expected, that's still an outstanding asset to have. Haven't seen anybody talk about this year, but it's still absolutely LA finishes worse than Brooklyn and/or results in a higher selection, in which case people will have been magically in favor of this deal the entire time. Not to mention, there are still additional conveyed picks from teams like Memphis, although those aren't likely to be as high, to be fair. All in all, in light of the Fultz trade, this genuinely makes sense if you ask me, and from Ainge's perspective. How so? The existing asset from the Lakers/Kings/Sixers is likely deemed somewhat comparable in Ainge's eyes, with the scales swinging of player quality between Irving and Thomas, not to mention the additional year of team control, the ages, to say nothing of Thomas' hip.
It took a bit of initial shock on my end to be reasonable about this. Unfortunate to see that Crowder's slashing won't benefit from Hayward, and was decently high on Zizic too. As much as I loved IT4's driving to the bucket, but he isn't a star, which you need to win in the NBA. No, Irving isn't sniffing top 10, can't believe that's been espoused in this thread, but he probably is quite a bit closer to a bonafide star, depending on who you ask. This trade also avoids an awful max down the line, given his style doesn't age well, and at best a catch-and-shooter. So, so glad to see this team sell high on Thomas. Add this to the spacing and shooting ability this team will be afforded with Bradball, not to mention the defensive upgrade it gives to the first unit on the whole. It may not be much of one in the regular season, but when you're replacing IT4, it's material enough to mention.
See if you can get Mason Plumlee on a vet min deal, although Stevens probably wants to start a distributor, with the rest of the players on the floor as wings. Whee, buckle up, think this is going to be an absolutely fun ride this season.
Probably, but it gets a lot closer. After next season it's not close in the opposite direction most likely
I don't know, if you buy the argument that Morris replaces the minutes for Crowder (and I'm not taking a side in that fight here), you could still trade a valuable chip in Crowder for something else if you want, or simply insist that you get value back. I guess the moving parts here are:
1.) How much more valuable do you think that Kyrie is over IT (if you think that he is much better, then sure, you probably love this trade); including both the years (2 vs. 1) and the potential severity of IT's hip injury in the future
2.) How good do you think Zizic will be? I was excited to see him play, but acknowledge that it is likely mostly hype I'm reacting to (though we were already thin as far as big men go)
3.) How likely do you think the Nets pick is to be top-5 in a good draft? If you think the Nets pick is likely to fall outside of that, again, you probably like this deal
Celts traded quantity for quality. Trading the Nets 1 sucks but they are stacked and they still have the LA pick, and the IT hip/D and max contract issue is now the Cavs issue.
That's right, I'm quoting myself - called it (kinda, sorta...)!
Not really a fan of this trade, but only because the Celtics were so damn lovable with IT. That said, if the Celtics had no plans to resign Isiah then this trade looks pretty smart IMHO. At that point it's essentially Crowder, Zizic and Brooklyn's pick for what will be a cheaper (and much higher ceiling) version of Isiah for the next two years. At worst, Irving is still a pretty big trade chip for the C's next summer.
I actually think both teams are improved next year with the trade with the C's potentially getting the better deal long term. Let's hope D'Angelo turns a corner in BK.
Edit - keep forgetting it's a player option.
Glass half full:
Lakers pick will be better than Nets pick
Have stud PG on deal for 2 years on old cap #
Opens more playing time for young guys
Zizic didn't look great in summer league
Half empty:
Celtics aren't better
Less depth
Nets pick could be #1
Gave up best value contract in NBA (Crowder)
Zizic will be stud
I think this deal without the Nets pick and replaced with any non-lakers pick or picks would have been fine. I'm scared that Danny just pulled off his Justise Winslow trade and yet I trust the hell out of those guys, especially as it relates to Zizic.
Kyrie must sign an extension or this will not be a good deal.
Lakers pick will be better than Nets pick
Have stud PG on deal for 2 years on old cap #
Opens more playing time for young guys
Zizic didn't look great in summer league
Half empty:
Celtics aren't better
Less depth
Nets pick could be #1
Gave up best value contract in NBA (Crowder)
Zizic will be stud
I think this deal without the Nets pick and replaced with any non-lakers pick or picks would have been fine. I'm scared that Danny just pulled off his Justise Winslow trade and yet I trust the hell out of those guys, especially as it relates to Zizic.
Kyrie must sign an extension or this will not be a good deal.
LeBron's leaving next season, Gilbert sucks, their coach is a little dude with LeBron's hand up his heiny, and it's Cleveland. The potential moving forward is way better in Boston.
LOL....i'm sure Lebron dreams of playing with IT4 and Jae Crowder. Please
This is where I'm at. After the players involved to match salaries they kept 2 of their 3 top assets and 3/4 if you count the Lakers pick. Keeping Brown and Tatum was so huge.
Again, IT4 was either going to walk or he was going to destroy the cap on a team with 3-4 top 5 picks and horford and Hayward. He basically was a worthless asset for a team that ass constructed ws not going to beat the Cavs or warriors in that one year. Ainge dumped him as he should have
Kyrie's next season in Clev would have resulted in another trip to the Finals. Then, he endures one year in Clev as the MAN and then gets a huge payday. Wow. That sucks for sure.
Those threads have been like 85% of my reason for existing here.
Still have the Lakers, but the narrow protections will make that an ass-clencher all season.
On 1) I have to think that Danny decided he wasn't going to give IT the contract, but for Kyrie he'll pony up, so it may be 2 vs 1 but could wind up being several more years vs 1. 3) will be a mystery for a while, and both Atlanta and Indiana could be worse than the Nets. 2, I mean maybe Guerschon picks up those minutes in a more mobile type arrangement?
I'm having a really hard time keeping this thread and the Game of Thrones thread straight. I totally HATE Danny giving the Night King Viserion. Horrible trade.
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