There isn't anyone to send down. Workman is the only one with options and that ain't happening. Abad or Boyer probably will get DFA'd. Though not sure if Boyer could be sent down - I know he signed the minor league deal.
Let's talk Hanley
- Thread starter grimshaw
- Start date
For what it's worth, Barnes and Kelly have options as well, though it would be insane to send down one of your top 4 relievers.
Fact remains that even if a reliever isn't moved out to make room for Pedroia today, something has to give in that bullpen soon. Unless they're really going to try to get through the entire month of August with a 3 man bench.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's almost three weeks until roster expansion -- the team can live without Workman for a short time as long as Reed and Kelly are healthy. Remember, with all of the off-days coming up, Fister can go back to the bullpen for a little while, too.
While I agree with the premise here, I wonder how it will shake out, given how much Farrell really likes Workman. His trust paid off in 2013, and he's trusted him in some pretty high-leverage spots once he got his legs under him this year. I don't know how much weight that carries, nor how much it should carry, given the circumstances and timing. They have enough guys on the 60-day DL that not recalling Workman until 9/1 wouldn't keep him from a playoff roster (a roster that Fister is unlikely to be on).
Prompted by this I decided to look over the team stats as a whole. By this time of the season I tend to forget just how good or bad the bit players actually were. What strikes me about our overall stats is how averageish this team is, offensively. (Excepting the Devers/Nunez hot streaks) Nobody's been stellar (overall) and the only black holes have been 3B (Rutledge, Sandoval, Holt.) It's starting to become unclear to me why you'd try to work Holt into the lineup at this point.
Pitchingwise, I have to wonder why Fister lives on. (I was sure Brian Johnson must have been injured or something.)
Brian Johnson just came back from being injured. And Fister has had two very solid starts in a row, which is why he lives on for the time being.
Not sure how any of this fits in the Hanley thread.
I have looked quite a bit and can't find individual LOB stats.
I have to believe Hanley must be right at the top of LOB leaders.
47 RBI for a cleanup hitter on a team that gets men on base.
I have to believe Hanley must be right at the top of LOB leaders.
47 RBI for a cleanup hitter on a team that gets men on base.
Here are the leaders. I don't see Hanley, but X is nearly the worst in baseball.
https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/player-stat/left-on-base
The third slot in the order has the highest SLG and the third highest HR total of the 9 spots in the order, so perhaps the bases have been cleared before Hanley has stepped in a bit more than normal this year?
His second most PAs are from the 5th spot, and the 4th spot in the lineup has hit the most home runs, only half of which are Hanley's, so that might also be "depriving" him of runners on base when he steps in.
His second most PAs are from the 5th spot, and the 4th spot in the lineup has hit the most home runs, only half of which are Hanley's, so that might also be "depriving" him of runners on base when he steps in.
He has 46 RBIs. Take away 18 HRs, he has 28!! He is a left on base machine. There can't possibly 100 players leaving more guys on base.
Also, with all his offensive, offensive numbers, why is he still at cleanup?
Also, with all his offensive, offensive numbers, why is he still at cleanup?
I think that may be only showing the 100 qualified players with the least LOB in baseball. X has LOB'd 178. Hanley has left 195 on.
Let's update that to 200.
I've been a fan for 55 yrs and I really don't think I've disliked any players more than Panda and Hanley.
Okay, then who takes over as DH that doesn't hit even worse and cost this team runs, and probably games the rest of the year?
You can't think of anyone you have hated more in 55 years than Panda? Really? I can give you a dozen without even thinking about it. I'm sure I could come up with a very healthy list given some time. Hanley shows up, he puts in the effort, and when he's healthy he's a really good hitter.
His issue is he can't stay healthy, and he's old enough that he's declining at the same time. I'd rather his option doesn't vest, but I have no room in my heart for hate for a player who clearly wants to be in Boston and clearly tries hard.
I didn't say "hate".
He's got $19M reasons to want to be in Boston, no other city would have paid that.
My eyes say their a lot of times he doesn't seem to try hard.
Just my opinion but I really hope he goes away sooner than later.
I think this is more next year. i hope hanley is a bench bat come late august/september of next year.
What's crazy is that looking at Hanley's fangraphs profile, his plate discipline, batted ball profile, etc. have all remained the same or improved from last season. The main difference has been that he's become a lot more pull happy but that doesn't explain the change in outcome. It's incredibly frustrating to watch him struggle but it's even more annoying that there isn't a great explanation for it.
His new walk up music, Take on Me by A-Ha, is an inspired choice. If he sticks with it and can get a few more line drives to fall in, Fenway will be a deafening falsetto for the playoffs.
I've never seen someone hit the ball harder and get less out of it than Hanley this year. I don't know if his batted balls go to very predictable spots of if he's really unlucky, but when he makes contact, it's usually very good.
I've never seen someone hit the ball harder and get less out of it than Hanley this year. I don't know if his batted balls go to very predictable spots of if he's really unlucky, but when he makes contact, it's usually very good.
This seems like such an odd thing to hope for. Why wouldn't you hope that he keeps hitting the ball hard, but that more balls fall in more regularly?
I don't want him to get the ABs needed for the option to vest. Sure, he can do that too, but hopefully not as a full time player
The Sox need him to continue to contribute - or rather to contribute better - so I am with BMHH on this one. If he isn't hurt, that is. There have been a lot of poor results this year by position players (e.g., X and Mitchy Two Bags) playing through injuries.
Thanks, missed that. Makes sense that the top guys are lead-off hitters in the NL.
Okay, replace "hated" with "disliked" in my post. You still haven't responded directly. You'll forgive me if I don't put any stock in your eyes. There are plenty of reports about how hard he works as a hitter and he's always in phenomenal shape. The claim that he doesn't try hard has always bothered me because the evidence for it is always so flimsy.
But seriously, you "dislike" him more than Carl Everett, Jim Leyritz, Roger Clemens, Shea Hillenbrand, Will Cordero, Jose Canseco, Jose Offerman, Steve Lyons, Julio Lugo, Derek Lowe, Dante Bichette... I mean, I could go on, but if you dislike Hanley more than any of these guys (especially the domestic violence cases) I have to wonder how hard you've really thought about it.
But again, who is the replacement and how does that make them better in the middle of a title contention window? This isn't like Panda where he was by far the worst player on the team and replacing him with someone as bad as Marrero was still somehow an upgrade. There is a bar to clear here and if you can't offer a believable and realistic scenario for clearing it, this is an incredibly baffling thing to hope for.
At best you are robbing Peter to pay Paul by hurting the team in 2018 to try and "help" it in 2019.
As to the bolder, perhaps he has not--is that such a bad thing?
Like, at what point in our attempts to make insightful discriminations into this game that we all enjoy do we find ourselves urging another fan to spend more time hating on the players...?
I mean, strange game--how about a nice game of chess?
What I remember from before his home run barrage late last season, was that he shortened his swing and hit a lot of singles and gappers to right field, and IIRC, later in the counts. I've wondered if he tried to take the Sox' lack of power production earlier in the season on himself, and has been trying to hit more HR's. I'd certainly love to see him take that opposite field approach a lot more often.
Not necessarily, but when someone offers an opinion as specific and far reaching as not being able to think of a player more
It wasn't meant to inspire hatred or dislike of additional players, but rather, to maybe convince him to ease up on the dislike for a player who, by all accounts, wants to be in Boston, puts in a lot of work and seems to be popular in the clubhouse.
Hanley seems to be an odd place to draw the line, IMO, and if a little context might change that, I didn't think it would be such a bad thing to offer it. I tried to be careful to not use descriptions or phrases that were accusatory regarding his reasons, as I don't think there's any reason to believe it's more than an emotional reaction driven by recency bias. So if I failed in that regard, I apologize.
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Hanley is easily one of the most likable players on the team on a personal level. Seems to be a great teammate, has an occasional flare for the dramatic, works hard, and seems to be having fun. I'd love for him to hit like a non-domestic-abusing Manny, but it hasn't happened, but I don't hate him for that. Money is irrelevant. I wonder if there are other, shall we say "reasons" for the hate toward him.
Personally I think it's an aberration for this year. Looking at his RC+ for Bases Empty (BE) vs Men on Base (MoB) and Runners in Scoring Position (RiSP) tells a similar tale to the LOB stats (but allows me to look at OB%, SLG and RC+).
In 126 PAs with MiSP his OB%/SLG/RC+ is a miserable 310/283/45 (worst among the 7 qualified regulars on the team and 4th worst in the League).
Similarly, in 208 PAs with MoB he's 313/356/67 - a bit more power but still worst on the team and 5th worst in the AL.
But with BE (231 PAs) he's 355/495/122 which is best on the team and 18th best among the 94 qualified batters in the League.
So why do I think it's a fluke? Well, last year his splits were almost exactly reversed. His RC+ for MiSP/MoB/BE were 146/133/121 and in 2015 he was worst at MoB than MiSP but like this year best with BE (84/60/114). For his career Hanley is better with BE but pretty consistent overall (121/120/132). For comparison the "most clutch hitter in Red Sox history" had career numbers of 138/152/138 and last year was 169/197/131.
Looking at Hi/Med/Lo leverage splits tells a similar story.
In 126 PAs with MiSP his OB%/SLG/RC+ is a miserable 310/283/45 (worst among the 7 qualified regulars on the team and 4th worst in the League).
Similarly, in 208 PAs with MoB he's 313/356/67 - a bit more power but still worst on the team and 5th worst in the AL.
But with BE (231 PAs) he's 355/495/122 which is best on the team and 18th best among the 94 qualified batters in the League.
So why do I think it's a fluke? Well, last year his splits were almost exactly reversed. His RC+ for MiSP/MoB/BE were 146/133/121 and in 2015 he was worst at MoB than MiSP but like this year best with BE (84/60/114). For his career Hanley is better with BE but pretty consistent overall (121/120/132). For comparison the "most clutch hitter in Red Sox history" had career numbers of 138/152/138 and last year was 169/197/131.
Looking at Hi/Med/Lo leverage splits tells a similar story.
I've always hated this claim as it, or something similar, has been used on many players throughout the years. Manny Ramirez was noted by almost every person who worked with him as a workout machine who would put in hours of work in the cage, but he was "lazy". JD Drew "didn't care". Etc. It's such a weak argument and honestly should just go away in rational baseball arguments.
On topic, as you said, Hanley is in phenomenal shape, that doesn't just fall out of the sky. When Hanley was taking on first base while other players were milling about at BP he'd be at the bag fielding grounders and whatnot. To say he "doesn't try hard" is so out of left field (edit, this was unintentionally punny) I don't know what to make of it. The results have been less than we'd have hoped, and that sucks. This season we've seen flashes of what we hoped with Hanley, but it just hasn't all come together. Thats no reason to "dislike" a guy, esp not more than some despicable characters in the last 55 years.
Safe to say that Hanley, in some people's eyes, is forever going to be judged by one moment of his career. Unfortunate...and stupid.
I think that incident is long gone from all but the paranoids. It was years ago, during a tenure with a team in which he had some other not so top attitude moments. Trying to think if he had any such incidents with the Dodgers or Red Sox. Has he? Sure, he doesn't run out everything like he should, but a lot of players, annoyingly so, don't either.