2017 Pats Training Camp

DJnVa

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Well, there's no need to rush the guy with Burkhead, White, Lewis, and Bolden there. I don't *think* he becomes the "Surprise Camp Cut". Taking it slow seems okay to me, outside of other injuries.
 

Stitch01

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The good news it its probably the position they can lose the starter at and have it matter the least. Obviously the depth matters, but Burkhead/Lewis/White is fine (although the coaching staff seems to view Lewis a bit differently)

Pats should be pretty conservative with these kind of injuries this year given the quasi exhibition season afforded to them by the rest of the division.
 

InstaFace

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Belichick has Brady meet Jeff Hostetler after practice, who lives nearby. Nice bit of history and nostalgia there, though not notable for much other than the fact that one of Hostetler's daughters is a huge Brady fan and she basically melted when taking a picture with him.
 

pappymojo

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Belichick has Brady meet Jeff Hostetler after practice, who lives nearby. Nice bit of history and nostalgia there, though not notable for much other than the fact that one of Hostetler's daughters is a huge Brady fan and she basically melted when taking a picture with him.
I wonder if this was similar to asking Wes Welker if he knew who Wally Pip was in that Hostetler led the Giants to Super Bowl victory after starting the season as a back-up.
 

DJnVa

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Peter King report: "The Patriots are beatable. They were down 25 points in Super Bowl after all. And watching JJ Watt on some plays against that OL the last few days..."


So, Watt, on "some" plays and being down 28-3 in SB and King wants to be the "I told you so" guy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Peter King report: "The Patriots are beatable. They were down 25 points in Super Bowl after all. And watching JJ Watt on some plays against that OL the last few days..."


So, Watt, on "some" plays and being down 28-3 in SB and King wants to be the "I told you so" guy.
Including playoffs, JJ Watt has played 5 games against the Pats:

0.5 sacks...
 

richgedman'sghost

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Thought he was out injured and did not play in the playoffs last year?
 
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lexrageorge

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Peter King report: "The Patriots are beatable. They were down 25 points in Super Bowl after all. And watching JJ Watt on some plays against that OL the last few days..."


So, Watt, on "some" plays and being down 28-3 in SB and King wants to be the "I told you so" guy.
I just read an article in the Herald about how Marcus Cannon was owning Watt in practice this week. Makes me wonder if King was watching the same practice.
 

Leather

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King needs an interview with Watt at some point (surely one of his canned stories will be Watt's comeback), so there you go.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Setting aside how insane it is to write crap like that based on training camp practices, even if "just for fun," the Patriots OT situation is super rough right now. Due to Solder being brought back slowwwwww from whatever is ailing him, Watt has been going up against LaAdrian Waddle and Cam Fleming, and today it was Fleming all day bc Waddle is hurt too.

Edit removing some hyperbole...painful, but I did it.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Well, there's no need to rush the guy with Burkhead, White, Lewis, and Bolden there. I don't *think* he becomes the "Surprise Camp Cut". Taking it slow seems okay to me, outside of other injuries.
D.J. Foster has been doing well in camp and take up the space until Gillislee returns. There's to rush to get him back early.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Peter King report: "The Patriots are beatable. They were down 25 points in Super Bowl after all. And watching JJ Watt on some plays against that OL the last few days..."
So, Watt, on "some" plays and being down 28-3 in SB and King wants to be the "I told you so" guy.
Umm, the beat reporters have been saying Cannon more than held his own against Watt. Just who is afraid of the Texans?
 

kenneycb

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If Watson turns out to be a competent QB and Watt is healthy, I would say they are a pretty scary team. That playoff game last year was a lot closer than the final score indicates, and that was without their best player and the Brockstar at QB.

Of course, they have Tom Savage and Weeden as their other two QBs, so, yeah, that position is important to their success.
 

Red Averages

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If Watson turns out to be a competent QB and Watt is healthy, I would say they are a pretty scary team. That playoff game last year was a lot closer than the final score indicates, and that was without their best player and the Brockstar at QB.

Of course, they have Tom Savage and Weeden as their other two QBs, so, yeah, that position is important to their success.
Of course, the Patriots didn't have Gronk, Cooks, their new RBs, Gilmore, etc.
 

PedroKsBambino

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D-line and Tackle depth concerning me at the moment.

I was not especially concerned about Nink's retirement given reports on Rivers and Wise, but now with those two slowed (and Rivers' situation a little ominous, even if only temporarily) it is a little thin. The depth at OLB helps, but I'd like to see health from both the rookies or another vet in the picture.

I'd guess Freeney is going to wait out camp anyway---but yes, I think he's interesting
 

kenneycb

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Of course, the Patriots didn't have Gronk, Cooks, their new RBs, Gilmore, etc.
That's nice and all but the question isn't about the Patriots. The Texans are a good team with a competent QB. Whether they have a competent QB is still to be seen, of course. It's a damn miracle they made the playoffs last year with their QB play.
 

Red Averages

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That's nice and all but the question isn't about the Patriots. The Texans are a good team with a competent QB. Whether they have a competent QB is still to be seen, of course. It's a damn miracle they made the playoffs last year with their QB play.
You implied the Texans are a significant threat because, despite more than doubling their score to win by 3 scores, the Texans (who now have a questionable rookie QB) can knock off the Patriots. A bit weird to then turnaround and disregard the Patriots additions since then while noting the Texans got back Watt.
 

BigSoxFan

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That's nice and all but the question isn't about the Patriots. The Texans are a good team with a competent QB. Whether they have a competent QB is still to be seen, of course. It's a damn miracle they made the playoffs last year with their QB play.
Their defense is quite scary when fully healthy although the Pats have generally handled them quite well. However, the potential is certainly there for a Pats/Jets 2010 playoffs type game where they are relentless in getting to Brady and make a few plays on offense. There's no reason why Savage/Watson can't be like 2010 Sanchez and do just enough to get the job done. Last year's game would have been very different had Butterfingers Fuller caught that ball. Of course, the Pats kind of puked all over themselves with unforced errors as well.
 

kenneycb

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You implied the Texans are a significant threat because, despite more than doubling their score to win by 3 scores, the Texans (who now have a questionable rookie QB) can knock off the Patriots. A bit weird to then turnaround and disregard the Patriots additions since then while noting the Texans got back Watt.
The question asked by SSF is who is afraid of the Texans. I took that to mean more general than Patriots-focused question. Given they made the playoffs while missing their best player and having a historically awful QB at the helm, I am suggesting that many teams should be afraid of the Texans. A major data point IMO is their defense that beat the shit out the Patriots, from a physical sense, in the playoff game that IMO was a lot closer than the score indicates (a one score game into the 4th quarter), and became three scores largely due to said historically awful QB being historically awful.
 

soxfan121

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The Texans also lost AJ Bouye (CB) and Quentin Demps (S), both of whom played a lot, and well, last season. Former first round pick Kevin Johnson is replacing Bouye, and Jets castoff Marcus Gilchrist leads the pack at S? Both are significant downgrades.

Watt being healthy gives the Texans a really fearsome pass rush, especially up the middle. Because of that, their defense is going to make highlight reels. Whether they can actually stop the other team remains to be seen.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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Given they made the playoffs while missing their best player and having a historically awful QB at the helm, I am suggesting that many teams should be afraid of the Texans.
Houston was probably the 25th best team in the league last year, and the 3rd best team in their division. They made the playoffs because the other teams in the division had terrible records in close games, and they went 8-2 in 1 score games, and frankly, they could improve significantly, and end up winning 6 games. Their defense is pretty good, but nowhere near, say Denver, and their offense and special teams were downright terrible.

That, and they're playing the NFC West, AFC North, and they get to travel to NE and Seattle this year.

And yes, their defense played an awesome game against the Patriots - and that front 7 is ridiculous - but they still got blown out. Even when a good team makes every mistake possible, their offense and special teams don't have the talent to make people pay.
 

kenneycb

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Holy hell, which is why I have explicitly mentioned the halfway decent QB caveat in every single post I've made on the topic. They have weapons on offense and defense just nobody to ably guide those weapons on offense.
 

soxfan121

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Houston was probably the 25th best team in the league last year, and the 3rd best team in their division. They made the playoffs because the other teams in the division had terrible records in close games, and they went 8-2 in 1 score games, and frankly, they could improve significantly, and end up winning 6 games. Their defense is pretty good, but nowhere near, say Denver, and their offense and special teams were downright terrible.

That, and they're playing the NFC West, AFC North, and they get to travel to NE and Seattle this year.

And yes, their defense played an awesome game against the Patriots - and that front 7 is ridiculous - but they still got blown out. Even when a good team makes every mistake possible, their offense and special teams don't have the talent to make people pay.
This is some good postin. Mmmm, mmmm good. Thanks!

I don't think O'Brien survives a non-playoff performance; I get the sense that people think Houston is a contender - just add quarterback! - and that expectations will kill the coach if they aren't met.

Yet, I think Mr. Sleeves is probably correct - this is a lucky team coming off a lucky year that got demonstrably worse in the secondary and has an unknown (at best) under center. Losing Bouye is huge, especially if Joseph shows his age or Johnson struggles coming back from the knee injury. Will Fuller's injury is a big blow because losing any starter for most of the season is a problem, even if that starter is mostly potential and draft pedigree.

Looking at their schedule, O'Brien could be in trouble as soon as Week 5. They probably win Week 1 at home vs. Jacksonville, but away to the Bengals is no sure thing, Week 3 is the Patriots, and then home to the Titans and Chiefs. That's potentially 1-4, with Seattle and Indy looming after their BYE. They had better blow the Browns out in Week 6, or that BYE week is gonna be an awfully tempting spot to whack O'Brien.
 

bakahump

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Didnt the Texans lose significant Secondary personnel? Bouye and Demps? Both where the better halves of their positions.
 

bsj

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Pickins are slim for FA at DE. Guys like...

Freeney
Mario
SenDerick marks
Odrick (who I thought they liked for like 5 min)
Kendall langford (who is probably hurt)
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Other than Freeney, is there anyone still out there?
Paul Kruger and Mario Williams are other possibilities, in the washed-up-formerly-big-names category.

I like the idea of a trade for a younger guy that hasn't worked out elsewhere but that BB liked in the draft (basically a Mingo, Rowe, Van Noy, Bostic, Ayers type transaction). But I have no idea who the target might be.

Lets all pray that Trey Flowers stays healthy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Kony Ealy really needs to step up and you couldn't give him a better opportunity to make some money on his next contract. There is a hole the size of a school bus on the depth chart and he'll be playing on an elite team with tons of exposure. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if this doesn't work out.
 

dcmissle

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No sympathy elsewhere, especially from Miami, but attrition is the brutal reality in this League. We'll be fortunate if more pressing needs do not develop elsewhere on the squad. I would not fire any bullets on this position just yet.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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#Patriots 3rd rd pick DE Derek Rivers tore his ACL & sprained his LCL, per the initial MRI. 2nd opinion coming to confirm surgery is needed.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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Paul Kruger and Mario Williams are other possibilities, in the washed-up-formerly-big-names category.

I like the idea of a trade for a younger guy that hasn't worked out elsewhere but that BB liked in the draft (basically a Mingo, Rowe, Van Noy, Bostic, Ayers type transaction). But I have no idea who the target might be.
I'm with you here.

They seem to do much better with guys who just didn't fit than guys who were superstars and aren't anymore. I'd worry about Williams or Kruger showing up and getting Reggie Wayne syndrome. The Patriots seem to have a very different view of what Training camp/preseason/practice are supposed to be like, and the guys who aren't gung-ho to be here don't seem to work out.

So yeah, some 26 year old high pick who hasn't shown much is what I'd like to see.
 

BigSoxFan

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Good sign when the biggest thing people are freaking out about is a 3rd round draft pick.
Well, our truly important players haven't really seen much action yet. If we get through preseason with this as the biggest injury, then I'll be quite pleased.
 

BaseballJones

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They really need to make a move at DE whether it's trade or FA.
The way that Lucien and Carr have looked so far.... maybe using Amendola or Hogan as trade bait could get something nice back. Not advocating it (I'm in the dcmissle camp of not doing anything yet), but either of those guys could potentially get something pretty useful back at DE.
 

RedOctober3829

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The way that Lucien and Carr have looked so far.... maybe using Amendola or Hogan as trade bait could get something nice back. Not advocating it (I'm in the dcmissle camp of not doing anything yet), but either of those guys could potentially get something pretty useful back at DE.
I wouldn't want to dig into depth at another position to fill a short-term need. Amendola, while 1 year on his deal, makes big plays in this offense and Hogan is a key guy. I'm not opening holes to fill another one. To me, it's either sign a street free agent or trade a draft pick for a player.
 

pappymojo

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The way that Lucien and Carr have looked so far.... maybe using Amendola or Hogan as trade bait could get something nice back. Not advocating it (I'm in the dcmissle camp of not doing anything yet), but either of those guys could potentially get something pretty useful back at DE.
There was a recent article on patspulpit that suggested that the changes to the roster cut down process may make it more advantageous for a team like a Patriots to trade a player on their roster bubble (someone like Lucien, Carr, etc.) prior to the roster cut down dates. Every team in the league will be moving cutting 37 players from their rosters at the same time instead of cutting down in stages like they have in previous years.

Edit: Also might make sense for the Patriots to trade for a DE that is on another team's roster bubble prior to the roster cut down dates that way they bypass the claims process.

Another article on patspulpit suggested that one of the benefits to shared practices with other teams is that it gives the Patriots staff an opportunity to see how a player does in practices. They had shared practices with the Saints in previous years and supposedly were very impressed with how Cooks practiced.

I would be happy with signing Freeney as a free agent veteran who brings good leadership skills and can contribute at a high level in limited usage. Then on top of that to trade for perhaps a young DE that is on the roster bubble from another team.
 
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BaseballJones

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I wouldn't want to dig into depth at another position to fill a short-term need. Amendola, while 1 year on his deal, makes big plays in this offense and Hogan is a key guy. I'm not opening holes to fill another one. To me, it's either sign a street free agent or trade a draft pick for a player.
I hear you. And I agree. I am with pappymojo and think that Freeney represents probably the best option. We know the guy knows how to play football, he can still get to the QB in the right situation, and he'd be cheap.

I'm just saying that IF the Patriots want to go the trade route, they have insane depth at WR, and to me, a WR corps of Edelman, Cooks, Mitchell, Amendola/Hogan, Carr/Lucien would still be fantastic. It would also make sense to deal Carr or Lucien IF they're not going to make the 53 man squad and IF they get a whiff that other teams would want to snap them up.

For now, I advocate holding tight on a trade and bring Freeney in for a look-see.
 

Reggie's Racquet

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Let me get this right...an important draft pick...at a position that is already dangerously thin for us...is hurt participating in a kickoff drill.
I know things happen but why was he participating in a kickoff drill? I keep thinking about Gronk and the PAT fiasco but perhaps someone here smarter than me can explain why an important asset like Rivers would be put in that position.
 

Stitch01

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Let me get this right...our first round draft pick....
Nope

Massive lol at complaining that Rivers was playing in a special teams drill. The definiton of the fellowship of the miserable radio call in tripe. Rivers is a backup! Special teams is how he makes the gameday roster!
 

Reggie's Racquet

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Nope

Massive lol at complaining that Rivers was playing in a special teams drill. The definiton of the fellowship of the miserable.
Sorry...corrected...I saw a press report that was obviously wrong that said he was first round pick. But the question and point is still valid. And I'm not sure what your point is but it is interesting that Gronk no longer plays on the PAT team.

And to be civil why not just make your point with insulting the poster. There is to much of that kind of stuff these days. Be kind. Be tolerant. It doesn't cost much.

So here's how that might look.

"Rivers was third round pick. Rivers is a backup. Special teams is how he makes the gameday roster."
 
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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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Pickins are slim for FA at DE. Guys like...

Freeney
Mario
SenDerick marks
Odrick (who I thought they liked for like 5 min)
Kendall langford (who is probably hurt)
Rivers is an exciting prospect. But he is a rookie, drafted in the 3rd round, has length but is light for the position and is making the jump from 1-AA football to the NFL. How much were people really expecting of him in 2017?

He would have certainly been more athletic than any of the guys on this list. But production wise, I don't think it's a stretch to say that guys like Freeney, Mario, etc.. who are shells of their former selves won't be an upgrade for the 2017 season.

And him being on the kickoff team makes all the sense in the world. He is a rookie and not a starter. That is literally exactly the type of player you hope can contribute on special teams.